Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Art Vandelay]

And R32s are now back on the C!

[Guest Lance]

@Roll...: Some of the 60 footers (whether it's the 32s or 42s is irrelevant) would've had to stick around regardless of the situation with the 44s. The M/V merger created a car squeeze in the east. Had the M gone to Chambers like originally intended in the doomsday cuts, the J would've been entirely 160s. Alas, that didn't happen and that's why the 42s are still around. Note that I'm not saying the merger was a bad idea; I'm just explaining why the situation is the way it is.

[alejr88]

I saw one set of R32's last car was numbered 3384 at B'way-Lafayette at 1:47am. Probably going to ENY I guess.

[LTA1992]

Look, the didn't have enough money for more R160s to cover the entire fleet. Plus, the mainline R44s needing premature retirement as well. That is the only reason why those 222/600 R32s and 50/400 R42s are still here. Otherwise, what trains will make and/or service had the leftover R32s and R42s retire right along with the NYCS R44s?

The MTA DID have enough money to completely replace the R42s, as well as 32s since that was the plan from the get go. Had the order been 1700 like it was originally planned, maybe the last of those R42s kept after the R44s retirement could have been retired since not as many spares would have been needed. Thus leaving just 222 R32s.

[VIP]

Theres still R160s on the though

[4P3607]

I see what might happen... The R46 will be a weekend thing, just like two or three summers ago they ran R68/A's on the on weekends (even though it was for a completely different reason). 

 

Now I have a question, who is maintaining the R160's on the ? I haven't heard any transfers of R160s going back to the yet for maintainence, so Pitkin or 207 must be maintaining them.

[RollOver]

@Roll...: Some of the 60 footers (whether it's the 32s or 42s is irrelevant) would've had to stick around regardless of the situation with the 44s. The M/V merger created a car squeeze in the east. Had the M gone to Chambers like originally intended in the doomsday cuts, the J would've been entirely 160s. Alas, that didn't happen and that's why the 42s are still around. Note that I'm not saying the merger was a bad idea; I'm just explaining why the situation is the way it is.

 

Now I see. Thanks. I'll always keep this in mind just in case anybody questions as to why the R42s are still here.

Edited July 22, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[NewFlyer 230]

Why was the 8 cars in the first place instead of 10 cars? When I see the and they are packed especially at 42st and 34st. When the R179's come they should be 5 car sets so that the and can switch cars. If the already ran 10 car trains swapping with the or any other line like the would be so much easier instead of having to remove or add more cars.

I'm guessing that the and are not touching the R160's right.

[RollOver]

East New York does basically pull out an R160A-1 onto the , or . Sometimes, the does have R160s with the General Order posters up on the side windows and also the other way around too.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah I almost forgot...

 

I saw an R32 NIS on the elevated portion of the line while RFWing an R42 (southbound and then northbound). I first saw it around Hewes on the Jamaica Center/Metropolitan Avenue-bound local track. Then later I saw it layed up on the center express track around say Chauncey (can't remember...).

Edited July 22, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[Guest Lance]

Why was the 8 cars in the first place instead of 10 cars? When I see the and they are packed especially at 42st and 34st. When the R179's come they should be 5 car sets so that the and can switch cars. If the already ran 10 car trains swapping with the or any other line like the would be so much easier instead of having to remove or add more cars.

I'm guessing that the and are not touching the R160's right.

As was stated previously, if the entire order was changed to 5-car sets, there would have to be more cars built to make service. Either that or service would have to reduced and the C already runs at not so good headways as it is. The reason why the C currently runs 8-car trains is because there aren't enough 32s around for 10-car sets running at the same TPH. It's either 8-car trains at 6 TPH or 10-car trains at around 12 minutes between trains.

[NewFlyer 230]

As was stated previously, if the entire order was changed to 5-car sets, there would have to be more cars built to make service. Either that or service would have to reduced and the C already runs at not so good headways as it is. The reason why the C currently runs 8-car trains is because there aren't enough 32s around for 10-car sets running at the same TPH. It's either 8-car trains at 6 TPH or 10-car trains at around 12 minutes between trains.

So the used to be 10 cars when there were more trains?

[DJ MC]

So the used to be 10 cars when there were more trains?

 

The has been using 8 car (480 foot) trains for many decades. There are some cases where it used 10 car trains, but in those instances it was temporary. 

Edited July 22, 2013 by DJ MC

[R32 3838]

East New York does basically pull out an R160A-1 onto the , or . Sometimes, the does have R160s with the General Order posters up on the side windows and also the other way around too.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah I almost forgot...

 

I saw an R32 NIS on the elevated portion of the line while RFWing an R42 (southbound and then northbound). I first saw it around Hewes on the Jamaica Center/Metropolitan Avenue-bound local track. Then later I saw it layed up on the center express track around say Chauncey (can't remember...).

yea its a daytime transfer

[realizm]

What erroneous decisions or premature scrapping? The primary stated purpose of the R160 order was to replace all of the older 60 foot cars. That only changed in 2010 (or was it late 2009?), when the R44's were found to be structurally unsound, and at that time the plan was changed. The R32's that had already been reefed by then couldn't be brought back - nor did they need to be brought back, since (thanks to the 2010) service cuts there is no car shortage at all.

 

The plan changed in 2010 actually not 2009. Again the R160 order was to replace all the remaining R42's and R32's. But they failed to catch the structural integrity problems with the Subways R44's in time after the NTT order was finalized and was built and introduced in 2006, as they were finalizing the R160 order. That was the oversight. 4 years to realize the R44's (and not the entire fleet, not counting the SIR R44's) were below standards?

 

Otherwise the facts you stated is pretty much what I said previous to your response, so I think we posted the same facts. See my quote below:

 

Well to properly answer the question it was because (as discussed already several pages back) that it was an error on the part of the MTA by the premature scrapping of the R32 cars, due to the sudden discovery that the R44's were shot and even in worse condition as the then new R160's were being put in revenue service. This major oversight in the discovery of rapidly deteriorating structural problems on the R44's created a shortage of cars as it is now. Which was why the scrapping of the R42's came to a sudden screeching halt. Oops.

 

 

*Edit: DJ MC beat me to it. Yeah what the wiki article states.

 

Going further:

 

The purpose of the testing is to ensure that the performance of the R188's meets contractual requirements. Exact speeds, stopping distances, etc. have to be measured, for trains operating on tangent, level track. The Rockaway test track is tangent, level track, but the Dyre and Sea Beach are not, making the testing process a lot more complex.

 

I'll research that further for my own information for clarification. I already saw the scans providing that information, in fact DJ MC and myself cited it in the R188 thread. Thanks for the heads up.

 

You mean this? Be careful about who you get your spin from.

 

Well consider the fact that private financial firms were assigned to audit the case, not a government agency. that was where the author of the article received the mathematical sources from. I am not an accountant and forgive me if you do have a heavier accounting background as I am an IT professional and now an ongoing nursing intern. But I think with my layman knowledge that the citations and references are correct. I can provide more references at your request.

 

Otherwise as you can provide me with a better source for your opinion on that particular article from the provided link, please read the MTA's legalistic response to the comptroller's threats, and we can analyze this further as I am indeed interested in this financial related aspect of the MTA:

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/archive/121126_1515_Audit.pdf

Edited July 22, 2013 by realizm

[VIP]

@Roll...: Some of the 60 footers (whether it's the 32s or 42s is irrelevant) would've had to stick around regardless of the situation with the 44s. The M/V merger created a car squeeze in the east. Had the M gone to Chambers like originally intended in the doomsday cuts, the J would've been entirely 160s. Alas, that didn't happen and that's why the 42s are still around. Note that I'm not saying the merger was a bad idea; I'm just explaining why the situation is the way it is.

now with the 8-car R160 SMS the and needs extra cars, so had the R32's been retired what cars were they planning on to fill the gap?

[R32sdabest]

now with the 8-car R160 SMS the and needs extra cars, so had the R32's been retired what cars were they planning on to fill the gap?

Uhhh.....R143s?

[VIP]

Uhhh.....R143s?

um the barely has enough cars, the line uses extra R160 sets to accomadate accurate service

[R62AR33]

Uhhh.....R143s?

There wouldn' t be enough thats why the got R160s to get extra service , there would have been a huge car shortage.

[R62AR33]

There wouldn' t be enough thats why the   got R160s to get extra service , there would have been a huge car shortage.

 

There wouldn' t be enough thats why the   got R160s to get extra service because the R160s couldnt handle it alone , there would have been a huge car shortage if the r32s had retired

Edited July 24, 2013 by R62AR33

[R32sdabest]

There wouldn' t be enough thats why the got R160s to get extra service because the R160s couldnt handle it alone , there would have been a huge car shortage if the r32s had retired

One of the many reasons why I love R32s. They're saving us from having a massive car shortage.

[R62AR33]

One of the many reasons why I love R32s. They're saving us from having a massive car shortage.

So are the R42s , you can't leave them out they are running well based on their condition and how bad they are treated.

Edited July 24, 2013 by R62AR33

[VIP]

Theres ALOT of R32's dominating the (J)/(Z) line

[R32sdabest]

Theres ALOT of R32's dominating the (J)/(Z) line

Yes

[VIP]

3355 3354 3728 3729

3430 3431 3767 3650

 

3840 3841 3864 3865 3900 3901 3485 3484

 

3618 3619 3621 3644

3610 3611 3429 3428

 

3737 3736 3924 3925

3822 3823 3520 3891

 

3818 3819 3407 3406

3551 3550 3433 3432

 

3878 3879 3730 3731 3894 3895 3587 3586

 

3452 3453 3727 3726 3872 3873 3811 3810

 

3445 3468 3706 3707

3414 3415 3799 3798

 

3897 3896 3664 3665

3497 3496 3440 3441

 

3460 3461 3443 3442 3449 3448 3615 3614

Thats 80 R32 cars on ENY property if im missing some post them

[RollOver]

So that's 10 trains of R32s total on the . That means the has over 16 older trains (80 R32 and 48 R42 cars) while the rest is R160A-1s. Nice lookout.

Edited July 24, 2013 by RollOverMyHead