YungMarxian Posted November 17, 2015 Share #51 Posted November 17, 2015 All this talk about West End express. I take the West End everyday and I take the times on the uncommon occasion that the runs express (I've never had to ride the subway on one of the weekends where the runs via West End express). You fly from 50th street to 79th and that's about it. Almost every operator will slow down because they don't want to hit the curves that fast. The trains don't seem to pull into West End stations that quickly anyway. If you want a fast ride on the or , take them one more stop to 36th street and fly (most of the time) to Atlantic/Pacific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted November 17, 2015 Share #52 Posted November 17, 2015 Just curious, how would you define a "lazy" operator? They're probably describing the ones that seemingly crawl unnecessarily. How would one know? People know their lines. There are certain train operators that CRAWL and you can be in the first car and see that there are now slow lights placed by track workers, no one on the track and the signals be green. They could crawl into the station and you can get off and wait for the next train and it travels at "normal" speed. I remember during one pick there were trains that would CRAWLLLLLL to Jamaica in the evening. I knew to take the from Manhattan because the T/Os handled their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 17, 2015 Share #53 Posted November 17, 2015 They're probably describing the ones that seemingly crawl unnecessarily. How would one know? People know their lines. There are certain train operators that CRAWL and you can be in the first car and see that there are now slow lights placed by track workers, no one on the track and the signals be green. They could crawl into the station and you can get off and wait for the next train and it travels at "normal" speed. I remember during one pick there were trains that would CRAWLLLLLL to Jamaica in the evening. I knew to take the from Manhattan because the T/Os handled their business. Yeah, this happen to me at times on any line (I always like riding in the first car btw lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted November 17, 2015 Share #54 Posted November 17, 2015 as long as nothing backed up these trains give no f**ks what so ever. Usually there are ahead of schedule too. however it sucks @ 33rd st manhattan bound and Flushing, Flushing bound because they usually get backed up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCOman Posted November 18, 2015 Share #55 Posted November 18, 2015 I like how the 4th Avenue express picks up speed northbound north of Prospect Avenue. The 6th Avenue express southbound is another good one. I also like the southbound A going into 42, 14 and Nostrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted November 18, 2015 Share #56 Posted November 18, 2015 oy the illiterate children are arguing back and forth posting about things they have no clue about again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 19, 2015 Share #57 Posted November 19, 2015 oy the illiterate children are arguing back and forth posting about things they have no clue about again... What can you expect? Its not like we know every thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted November 19, 2015 Share #58 Posted November 19, 2015 What can you expect? Its not like we know every thing... how do you post a gif into your signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 19, 2015 Share #59 Posted November 19, 2015 how do you post a gif into your signature? Insert the gif's URL into the image properties.It should show up in your signature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted November 20, 2015 Share #60 Posted November 20, 2015 oy the illiterate children are arguing back and forth posting about things they have no clue about again... Did that detour into " West End", "slouchy", "lazy", and "driver" hit you like it hit me? Maybe we can meet up at the old tower at " Roger's" Junction and discuss this. Perhaps we can go over the rules about bypassing stations on the local track as well as speed over switches and trains running on schedule as opposed to "full speed ahead" and being taken out of service for breaking the rules. What started out as an interesting thread veered off track rather quickly. What do I know any way, I only "pounded the road" for almost 30 years with a clean record while breaking in a load of train operstors on the line. I never asked for students at any time but schoolcar instructors liked how I trained people.It bothers me sometime when people critique workers without knowing what the job entails. I may have an opinion about the Master chef's creation at the Waldorf but I can't tell him or her how to do their j-o-b either. Just my opinion though. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted November 20, 2015 Share #61 Posted November 20, 2015 Did that detour into " West End", "slouchy", "lazy", and "driver" hit you like it hit me? Maybe we can meet up at the old tower at " Roger's" Junction and discuss this. Perhaps we can go over the rules about bypassing stations on the local track as well as speed over switches and trains running on schedule as opposed to "full speed ahead" and being taken out of service for breaking the rules. What started out as an interesting thread veered off track rather quickly. What do I know any way, I only "pounded the road" for almost 30 years with a clean record while breaking in a load of train operstors on the line. I never asked for students at any time but schoolcar instructors liked how I trained people.It bothers me sometime when people critique workers without knowing what the job entails. I may have an opinion about the Master chef's creation at the Waldorf but I can't tell him or her how to do their j-o-b either. Just my opinion though. Carry on. Yup. There's a difference between buffs appreciating someone's operation, or enjoying a run and commenting to that effect, and the ones who go full retard talking about a run like they know how to do it better. News flash, buffs, you don't. Get hired, go to schoolcar, and record yourself making your first ever station stop. Guarantee you stop short, long, miss the mark altogether, or, if you do manage to hit the mark, it's a rough ride with a lot of really bad braking and releasing, not one smooth brake. Just because some of us make it look easy doesn't mean it is. There's a reason train operation has been known as a SKILLED TRADE and a CRAFT over the years. And it's not because some preteen keyboard warrior who can barely speak the language properly...seriously, "slouchy????"...can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted November 20, 2015 Share #62 Posted November 20, 2015 I may have an opinion about the Master chef's creation at the Waldorf but I can't tell him or her how to do their j-o-b either. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 20, 2015 Share #63 Posted November 20, 2015 Yup. There's a difference between buffs appreciating someone's operation, or enjoying a run and commenting to that effect, and the ones who go full retard talking about a run like they know how to do it better. News flash, buffs, you don't. Get hired, go to schoolcar, and record yourself making your first ever station stop. Guarantee you stop short, long, miss the mark altogether, or, if you do manage to hit the mark, it's a rough ride with a lot of really bad braking and releasing, not one smooth brake. Just because some of us make it look easy doesn't mean it is. There's a reason train operation has been known as a SKILLED TRADE and a CRAFT over the years. And it's not because some preteen keyboard warrior who can barely speak the language properly...seriously, "slouchy????"...can do it. Okay.I'm gonna just say this...We are NOT keyboard warriors.We have the right to discuss how train operator's operate.Its part of the subway and FYI this is a subway forum.All you can do is read it and walk away. Don't like it?Start your own forum for operators where you can make fun of railfans all day.That BS is not happening here... (BTW the poster doesn't get away with it either...If your going to critique an operator at least do intelligently and spare us the common rider slang. I hear it enough already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 20, 2015 Share #64 Posted November 20, 2015 It's not about whether you can discuss someone's driving methods, it's about how the individual in this thread was taking up pages and pages of thread ranting, in language bordering on the incoherent, about how train drivers don't know how to do their job properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 20, 2015 Share #65 Posted November 20, 2015 It's not about whether you can discuss someone's driving methods, it's about how the individual in this thread was taking up pages and pages of thread ranting, in language bordering on the incoherent, about how train drivers don't know how to do their job properly. I understand that... I don't like that in response, SubwayGuy disrespected the character of every railfan who attempts to understand how the system works and/or wants to work for any transit authority after they are done with school like myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 21, 2015 Share #66 Posted November 21, 2015 I didn't get that impression from the post! Sounded like he was targeting the armchair critics of operation methods: "There's a difference between buffs appreciating someone's operation, or enjoying a run and commenting to that effect, and the ones who go full retard talking about a run like they know how to do it better." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 21, 2015 Share #67 Posted November 21, 2015 I didn't get that impression from the post! Sounded like he was targeting the armchair critics of operation methods: "There's a difference between buffs appreciating someone's operation, or enjoying a run and commenting to that effect, and the ones who go full retard talking about a run like they know how to do it better." Here is the line I had the biggest problem with... "There's a reason train operation has been known as a SKILLED TRADE and a CRAFT over the years. And it's not because some preteen keyboard warrior who can barely speak the language properly...seriously, "slouchy????"...can do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted November 21, 2015 Share #68 Posted November 21, 2015 Take it easy Around the Horn. I don't think SubwayGuy was directing his ire at you or railfans in general. If he was responding to me in general I believe he, and ttcsubwayfan, realize where I was going with my posts. To everyone out there let me relay my personal experience about "fast" M/M or T/O s. I was a C/R on the line in the early '80's with one of the fastest M/M in the IRT. On our last trip from Brooklyn to Lenox Terminal on Sunday nights we would catch our leader in Midtown without fail. This was on 12 minute headways. We would get to 145th St and have to wait for 10 minutes for the train ahead of us to be fumigated at the terminal, relay down to 145th and cross over ahead of us into Lenox Yard. The other track in the terminal had the Lenox Shuttle train so we had to wait. One day the dispatcher pulled me to the side and she told me that there had been complaints to the Command Center because we were constantly ahead of schedule. Since I was the C/R it was up to me to slow the train down when there weren't holding lights displayed. How many railfans know that the C/R is/was in charge of the train, not the T/O. Every dispatcher/ tower on the line was going to be disciplined because of me and my M/M. On my last trip the next Sunday night we had holding lights at Franklin Ave, Nevins St, Wall St, and Chambers St. At Chambers St a supervisor boarded at my position. At Times Square the Chief Transportation Officer boarded at my position. At 96th St I was "advised" by them to make a connection with the local we passed at 79th St. We arrived at 148th St-Lenox Terminal exactly on time.The CTO and the motor instructor, both living upstairs at Lenox, told me that was the way we were to operate from that day forward. The operating idea was that a train would be excused for being late but any train crew operating ahead of schedule without explicit permission would be taken out of service at the terminal. If the schedule gave you too much time so be it. The train crew must adhere to the written schedule until it was changed. A 'fast" train crew wasn't something to be proud of back then. A few years later when the R62s came to the line the crews used to brag about how fast they could make it from Woodlawn to 149th St-GC.. The Chief Transportation Officer told those of us at Lenox Terminal to watch what he had in store for those crews. The next pick he had the schedules re-written so that the speedsters who used to make 2 trips daily would now make 3 trips a day while the excess jobs were cut and those crews had to find jobs elsewhere. That's why to this day I refuse to critique T/Os, C/Rs, B/Os or railroad engineers without knowing the whole story. This is just an observation and is not directed at anyone in particular. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B46 via Utica Posted November 21, 2015 Share #69 Posted November 21, 2015 Take it easy Around the Horn. I don't think SubwayGuy was directing his ire at you or railfans in general. If he was responding to me in general I believe he, and ttcsubwayfan, realize where I was going with my posts. To everyone out there let me relay my personal experience about "fast" M/M or T/O s. I was a C/R on the line in the early '80's with one of the fastest M/M in the IRT. On our last trip from Brooklyn to Lenox Terminal on Sunday nights we would catch our leader in Midtown without fail. This was on 12 minute headways. We would get to 145th St and have to wait for 10 minutes for the train ahead of us to be fumigated at the terminal, relay down to 145th and cross over ahead of us into Lenox Yard. The other track in the terminal had the Lenox Shuttle train so we had to wait. One day the dispatcher pulled me to the side and she told me that there had been complaints to the Command Center because we were constantly ahead of schedule. Since I was the C/R it was up to me to slow the train down when there weren't holding lights displayed. How many railfans know that the C/R is/was in charge of the train, not the T/O. Every dispatcher/ tower on the line was going to be disciplined because of me and my M/M. On my last trip the next Sunday night we had holding lights at Franklin Ave, Nevins St, Wall St, and Chambers St. At Chambers St a supervisor boarded at my position. At Times Square the Chief Transportation Officer boarded at my position. At 96th St I was "advised" by them to make a connection with the local we passed at 79th St. We arrived at 148th St-Lenox Terminal exactly on time.The CTO and the motor instructor, both living upstairs at Lenox, told me that was the way we were to operate from that day forward. The operating idea was that a train would be excused for being late but any train crew operating ahead of schedule without explicit permission would be taken out of service at the terminal. If the schedule gave you too much time so be it. The train crew must adhere to the written schedule until it was changed. A 'fast" train crew wasn't something to be proud of back then. A few years later when the R62s came to the line the crews used to brag about how fast they could make it from Woodlawn to 149th St-GC.. The Chief Transportation Officer told those of us at Lenox Terminal to watch what he had in store for those crews. The next pick he had the schedules re-written so that the speedsters who used to make 2 trips daily would now make 3 trips a day while the excess jobs were cut and those crews had to find jobs elsewhere. That's why to this day I refuse to critique T/Os, C/Rs, B/Os or railroad engineers without knowing the whole story. This is just an observation and is not directed at anyone in particular. Carry on. You have a good point but I'm kind of still on Around the horn's side Subway Guy is critizing almost every railfaner on here who tries to understand the operations of the system if a poster is incorrect the least he can do is try to be helpful and actually correct them and give them information and he also seems to overuse the word "retards" alot to describe Railfaners on these forums if he wants to make fun of transit buffs like @Aroundthehorn said go do it somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 21, 2015 Share #70 Posted November 21, 2015 Take it easy Around the Horn. I don't think SubwayGuy was directing his ire at you or railfans in general. If he was responding to me in general I believe he, and ttcsubwayfan, realize where I was going with my posts. To everyone out there let me relay my personal experience about "fast" M/M or T/O s. I was a C/R on the line in the early '80's with one of the fastest M/M in the IRT. On our last trip from Brooklyn to Lenox Terminal on Sunday nights we would catch our leader in Midtown without fail. This was on 12 minute headways. We would get to 145th St and have to wait for 10 minutes for the train ahead of us to be fumigated at the terminal, relay down to 145th and cross over ahead of us into Lenox Yard. The other track in the terminal had the Lenox Shuttle train so we had to wait. One day the dispatcher pulled me to the side and she told me that there had been complaints to the Command Center because we were constantly ahead of schedule. Since I was the C/R it was up to me to slow the train down when there weren't holding lights displayed. How many railfans know that the C/R is/was in charge of the train, not the T/O. Every dispatcher/ tower on the line was going to be disciplined because of me and my M/M. On my last trip the next Sunday night we had holding lights at Franklin Ave, Nevins St, Wall St, and Chambers St. At Chambers St a supervisor boarded at my position. At Times Square the Chief Transportation Officer boarded at my position. At 96th St I was "advised" by them to make a connection with the local we passed at 79th St. We arrived at 148th St-Lenox Terminal exactly on time.The CTO and the motor instructor, both living upstairs at Lenox, told me that was the way we were to operate from that day forward. The operating idea was that a train would be excused for being late but any train crew operating ahead of schedule without explicit permission would be taken out of service at the terminal. If the schedule gave you too much time so be it. The train crew must adhere to the written schedule until it was changed. A 'fast" train crew wasn't something to be proud of back then. A few years later when the R62s came to the line the crews used to brag about how fast they could make it from Woodlawn to 149th St-GC.. The Chief Transportation Officer told those of us at Lenox Terminal to watch what he had in store for those crews. The next pick he had the schedules re-written so that the speedsters who used to make 2 trips daily would now make 3 trips a day while the excess jobs were cut and those crews had to find jobs elsewhere. That's why to this day I refuse to critique T/Os, C/Rs, B/Os or railroad engineers without knowing the whole story. This is just an observation and is not directed at anyone in particular. Carry on. All right then I stand corrected...That's an interesting story BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted November 21, 2015 Share #71 Posted November 21, 2015 I didn't get that impression from the post! Sounded like he was targeting the armchair critics of operation methods: "There's a difference between buffs appreciating someone's operation, or enjoying a run and commenting to that effect, and the ones who go full retard talking about a run like they know how to do it better." I have to agree with Around The Horn. He kinda went overboard when he said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardye1 Posted November 21, 2015 Share #72 Posted November 21, 2015 i took a from Coney Island to 42nd street once to catch the first and while the is really slow in Brookyln (Dekalb St Interlock X.x) it took me less than 10 minutes to get from Canal to Times Square. I like the way that it flies up broadway along its subtle curves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon2305 Posted November 21, 2015 Share #73 Posted November 21, 2015 I understand that... I don't like that in response, SubwayGuy disrespected the character of every railfan who attempts to understand how the system works and/or wants to work for any transit authority after they are done with school like myself... Respect for standing up for railfans. This is a hobby and some of us might want to get into transit one form or another in the future. I can only imagine what these transit employees go through but that doesn't mean that they can act like a conceded jackass to rail buffs just for having an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 21, 2015 Share #74 Posted November 21, 2015 I have to agree with Around The Horn. He kinda went overboard when he said that. This is actually one of the mildest posts SubwayGuy has made on this forum. I'm all for defending railfans against unnecessary criticism, but this is really not an offensive post in any way. Respect for standing up for railfans. This is a hobby and some of us might want to get into transit one form or another in the future. I can only imagine what these transit employees go through but that doesn't mean that they can act like a conceded jackass to rail buffs just for having an opinion. Conceded jackass? Can you be serious? TransitJusticeForAll was ranting about operators who's driving style he didn't care for, a topic he very clearly does not know about. How someone operates a train can depend on many factors that neither he nor myself know - look to Trainmaster's excellent post for some good examples. Around the Horn said that this is a problematic quote for him: "There's a reason train operation has been known as a SKILLED TRADE and a CRAFT over the years. And it's not because some preteen keyboard warrior who can barely speak the language properly...seriously, "slouchy????"...can do it." What is it about this quote that is so objectionable? It's true. Someone who is interested in transit can by all means go into the field and learn, but you can't pretend like you know about the technical of driving a train if you haven't ever done it before. This is true of all work, really, but is especially true of a difficult job like train driving. Would you go up to someone in their workplace and tell them that they're not doing their job properly? Anyone with any self respect would rightfully find that presumptuous and insulting. You can go into that workplace and learn, then you can critique other people's methods if you have a just cause to do so, but until you have actual practical experience you have zero basis on which to condemn anyone's work methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B46 via Utica Posted November 21, 2015 Share #75 Posted November 21, 2015 This is actually one of the mildest posts SubwayGuy has made on this forum. I'm all for defending railfans against unnecessary criticism, but this is really not an offensive post in any way. Conceded jackass? Can you be serious? TransitJusticeForAll was ranting about operators who's driving style he didn't care for, a topic he very clearly does not know about. How someone operates a train can depend on many factors that neither he nor myself know - look to Trainmaster's excellent post for some good examples. Around the Horn said that this is a problematic quote for him: "There's a reason train operation has been known as a SKILLED TRADE and a CRAFT over the years. And it's not because some preteen keyboard warrior who can barely speak the language properly...seriously, "slouchy????"...can do it." What is it about this quote that is so objectionable? It's true. Someone who is interested in transit can by all means go into the field and learn, but you can't pretend like you know about the technical of driving a train if you haven't ever done it before. This is true of all work, really, but is especially true of a difficult job like train driving. Would you go up to someone in their workplace and tell them that they're not doing their job properly? Anyone with any self respect would rightfully find that presumptuous and insulting. You can go into that workplace and learn, then you can critique other people's methods if you have a just cause to do so, but until you have actual practical experience you have zero basis on which to condemn anyone's work methods. But what grinds my gears is that he refers to transit buffs as "retards" on the forums quite often just because they are inexperienced with the operation of the subway system he can at least use a less offensive word atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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