Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Armandito]

Yes, it's possible to run trains at 2-minute headways (30 trains an hour) on any corridor in the subway system. But you can't run any more than that. And even if you do run trains at 2-minute headways (30 trains an hour), there would always be delays anyway.

 

The Queens Blvd Express () have that headway during rush hours. The Lexington Av Express () is close.

What about the ? I just witnessed someone proposing a rebirth of the (8) train wanting to route it onto the Lex as a local. Edited December 31, 2014 by lara8710

[Lance]

While it is quite possible to run 30 trains per hour, and it is done in places like Queens Blvd, it should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. If anything happens on the line, everything gets delayed.

[bobtehpanda]

What about the ? I just witnessed someone proposing a rebirth of the (8) train wanting to route it onto the Lex as a local.

 

The Lexington Avenue Line, theoretically, could. However, it it so crowded that dwell time in stations is much longer due to the sheer volume of people entering and exiting trains, so they can only manage about 24 TPH.

[RollOver]

What about the ? I just witnessed someone proposing a rebirth of the (8) train wanting to route it onto the Lex as a local.

 

The does about 24. The  (combined) do about 27.

Edited December 31, 2014 by RollOver

[Quill Depot]

30TPH only really works in ideal conditions. Hence why the Lexington Ave Express isn't 30.

[Armandito]

30TPH only really works in ideal conditions. Hence why the Lexington Ave Express isn't 30.

Therefore a revived 3rd Avenue subway would only work after the 2nd Avenue Subway has been completed Edited December 31, 2014 by lara8710

[MTA Dude]

Yes, it's possible to run trains at 2-minute headways (30 trains an hour) on any corridor in the subway system. But you can't run any more than that. And even if you do run trains at 2-minute headways (30 trains an hour), there would always be delays anyway.

 

The Queens Blvd Express ( ) have that headway during rush hours. The Lexington Av Express ( ) is close.

 

I'm reading an article about signaling right now and it says that Flushing has a built-in cap of 33 TPH. Currently running on 27 TPH.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I'm reading an article about signaling right now and it says that Flushing has a built-in cap of 33 TPH. Currently running on 27 TPH.

Well the does not share tracks so it makes sense.

[bobtehpanda]

I'm reading an article about signaling right now and it says that Flushing has a built-in cap of 33 TPH. Currently running on 27 TPH.

 

Where exactly are you reading this?

 

The main issue with capacity on the is the terminal - Main St's three-track setup is actually a bit harder to deal with, and there are also no tail tracks so trains cannot enter the station at speed. Even now, some trains do not terminate at Flushing-Main St due to capacity.

Edited December 31, 2014 by bobtehpanda

[CenSin]

I'm reading an article about signaling right now and it says that Flushing has a built-in cap of 33 TPH. Currently running on 27 TPH.

30 is a rule-of-thumb. It's something easy to remember, but not precise.

[Wallyhorse]

I just witnessed someone proposing a rebirth of the (8) train wanting to route it onto the Lex as a local.

The (8) I would do as a full rebuild of the Bronx portion of the 3rd Avenue El, BUT in this case as BMT/IND so that can serve as the Bronx portion of the SAS with provisions to fully rebuild the 3rd Avenue El back into Manhattan in the future (I still think if all the proposed building in Manhattan happens we will eventually need BOTH a full SAS and a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El). 

[Lance]

What's wrong with a subway under 3rd or Webster Avenues? Why does it have to be an el?

[MysteriousBtrain]

What's wrong with a subway under 3rd or Webster Avenues? Why does it have to be an el?

Umm.... maybe because the el was first lol.

[Javier]

EL's are faster to build then subways.

 

Speaking of EL's, the elevated part of the line was once part of the New York Railroad?

[Lance]

Umm.... maybe because the el was first lol.

Please read the post preceding mine before commenting. Wallyhorse was suggesting that the 3rd Ave elevated should be rebuilt and connected to the 2nd Avenue subway in Manhattan. That elevated line hasn't been there in over 40 years. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to tolerate a brand new elevated line outside their windows when there hasn't been one in nearly half a century.

EL's are faster to build then subways.

 

Speaking of EL's, the elevated part of the line was once part of the New York Railroad?

Yeah, but they're more annoying when the line is right outside your window.

 

The Dyre Avenue line (the from Dyre Av to E 180 St) was once part of the New York, Westchester and Boston Railway.

[Javier]

Yeah, my girlfriend lives in Astoria and her house literally shakes every time a train goes by.

[2Line1291]

Subway are expense to build this modern day present smh... I propose switching the local/express setup after Broadway-Lafeyette St southbound with the express tracks redirected down Culver and the redirected to the Manhattan Bridge replacing the in Brooklyn/West End Line

[MysteriousBtrain]

Please read the post preceding mine before commenting. Wallyhorse was suggesting that the 3rd Ave elevated should be rebuilt and connected to the 2nd Avenue subway in Manhattan. That elevated line hasn't been there in over 40 years. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to tolerate a brand new elevated line outside their windows when there hasn't been one in nearly half a century.

Yeah, but they're more annoying when the line is right outside your window.

My fault. But yeah, it would be a miracle if we can find someone that would like an el in NYC.

[CenSin]

Subway are expense to build this modern day present smh... I propose switching the local/express setup after Broadway-Lafeyette St southbound with the express tracks redirected down Culver and the redirected to the Manhattan Bridge replacing the in Brooklyn/West End Line

It's practically infeasible as you would have to shut down the 6 Avenue line, terminating southbound trains at West 4 Street–Washington Square, northbound trains at Atlantic Avenue–Barclay Center, and northbound (F)/(M) trains at Delancey Street–Essex Street.

 

The work involved would certainly involve turning the current trackways into ramps. Additionally, a bit of excavation might be necessary to create an additional trackway. There are many possible ways to do this, and I can't think of any (yet) that would result in a sensible track layout. You either lose some flexibility, or gain something useless. I can't say the current track setup is brilliant, but considering the constraints that the engineers had to work with, it was probably the most realistic outcome. And given the adversity to large construction projects in developed areas, I reckon the constraints would be even tighter creating a scenario in which you can essentially do nothing.

[bobtehpanda]

The only roads that have a remote chance of hosting els are those that are ridiculously wide. As it is, most of the roads that fit this description already have subway service directly on the road itself (Grand Concourse, Queens Blvd), very close by (Ocean Pkwy, and Woodhaven has the ROW for the RBB), or don't need that kind of service to begin with (Conduit Blvd).

 

The only roads that are both wide enough for els and actually have some sort of demand for subway service are Pelham Pkwy and the LIE, and neither of those is going to see subway service anytime soon for various reasons, least of all being a lack of money.

[Armandito]

Since every north-south artery in Manhattan has express tracks, should the Second Avenue Subway have them, too?

[bobtehpanda]

Since every north-south artery in Manhattan has express tracks, should the Second Avenue Subway have them, too?

 

Not only would they be very expensive to provide, but why exactly do we need them? The SAS makes very few stops compared to most other subway lines, and when it opens in 2016 I doubt anyone is going to need an express that only goes from 96 St to Lex-63. Sixth Avenue only got express tracks decades after the line was built, so it shouldn't be a problem here either.

[Wallyhorse]

Not only would they be very expensive to provide, but why exactly do we need them? The SAS makes very few stops compared to most other subway lines, and when it opens in 2016 I doubt anyone is going to need an express that only goes from 96 St to Lex-63. Sixth Avenue only got express tracks decades after the line was built, so it shouldn't be a problem here either.

And those express tracks on 6th Avenue were built in part to connect what had been before 1967 two sets of terminal tracks at West 4th and 34th Street when the Chrystie Street connection opened.  Those tracks also are in a tunnel that has provisions if needed to add local station platforms to them at 14th and 23rd Streets as I understand it.

[Union Tpke]

Since every north-south artery in Manhattan has express tracks, should the Second Avenue Subway have them, too?

I think YES!

Not only would they be very expensive to provide, but why exactly do we need them? The SAS makes very few stops compared to most other subway lines, and when it opens in 2016 I doubt anyone is going to need an express that only goes from 96 St to Lex-63. Sixth Avenue only got express tracks decades after the line was built, so it shouldn't be a problem here either.

I know it would be expensive, but my reasoning is the same reason as the original purpose for express tracks. More Capacity.

To save money I would hook up with the Nassau St Line between Bowery and Essex. There would also be a connection using the Essex St Trolley terminal onto the Williamsburg Bridge.

[CenSin]

I think YES!

I know it would be expensive, but my reasoning is the same reason as the original purpose for express tracks. More Capacity.

To save money I would hook up with the Nassau St Line between Bowery and Essex. There would also be a connection using the Essex St Trolley terminal onto the Williamsburg Bridge.

You can add capacity by building a trunk anywhere else nearby. It doesn't have to be under or around the existing tracks. Building another pair of tracks on 3 Avenue or 5 Avenue would also increase capacity with the extra benefit of spreading the coverage area wider. To confer the benefits of an express/local setup, however, you'd have to add stations along the length of 2 Avenue. Otherwise, it would be no different than the former Nassau Street line's setup where no stations were ever skipped.