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checkmatechamp13

Bus Route Profiles Released By NYC Comptroller Scott Stringer

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A letter to the people is available here: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/bus-route-profiles/

The actual route profiles are available here: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/documents/Bus_Route_Profiles_2017.pdf

There's an interactive chart available showing the data towards the bottom of the page, and from that interactive chart, there's a link that says "Download Data" (as a CSV file, but I converted it to Excel). From that data, I created the per-mile ridership, average runtime, and ranked the speed of routes across the city. The Excel file I created is available here: https://www.docdroid.net/f0tuP0n/nyct-data.xlsx

It should be noted that I didn't change the data, so errors such as the S74/84 being different lengths, and not having the speeds available for some of the newer SBS routes were left in there (so sometimes, you see the "Division By Zero" error). If anybody wants to update those (or if I feel like doing it later), I'll do so. Also, keep in mind that SI limited-stop routes and pairs like the Bx1/2, Bx12 LCL/SBS and Bx40/42 have ridership listed together (so the per-mile ridership can be interpreted as assuming all ridership went to one of those routes or the other). The speed of the SI limiteds vs. the locals is interesting (though I'm not sure why they don't have data for the PM-only S81/84/86).

Anyway, here's the rankings that I felt like doing (I didn't bother to do the overall ridership rankings. Using Excel's "Sort" Command, you can also rank them by number of turns, by length, etc). Also, I didn't separate NYCT from MTA Bus (MTA Bus is marked by an asterisk *).

Per-Mile Ridership (2016)

Overall Top 10

M86 SBS

M14A/D

M96

B46 SBS

M34/34A SBS

Bx12 LCL/SBS

M79 SBS

M66

M15 LCL/SBS

M42

Overall Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

BX20

S66

BX24

M12

B39

S57

S54

S89

S56

S55

Brooklyn Top 10

B46 LCL/SBS

B35

B44 LCL/SBS

B12

B6

B42

B1

B74

B41

B52

Brooklyn Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

B13

B69

B4

B48

B67

B37

B24

B84

B32

B39

Manhattan Top 10

M86 SBS

M14A/D

M96

M34/34A SBS

M79 SBS

M66

M15/SBS

M42

M23 SBS

M116

Manhattan Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

M5

M106

M22

M8

M2

M21

M20

M35

M98

M12

Queens Top 10

Q64*

Q49*

Q33*

Q58

Q23*

Q25*

Q46

Q10*

Q27

Q65*

Queens Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

Q42

Q102*

Q70 SBS*

Q113*

Q26

Q52*

Q103*

Q67*

Q50*

Q21*

Staten Island Top 10

S48/98

S53

S46/96

S79 SBS

S44/94

S40/90

S51/81

S62/92

S76/86

S61/91

Staten Island Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

S78

S74/84

S42

S59

S66

S57

S54

S89

S56

S55

Bronx Top 10

BX12 LCL/SBS

BX1/2

BX41 LCL/SBS

BX19

BX35

BX9

BX1

BX6

BX15

BX3

Bronx Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

BX16

BX34

BX33

BX8

BX18

BX23*

BX29

BX46

BX20

BX24

Runtime

Overall Top 10

M101

M4

B15

M3

B6

B82

Q60*

B44

B8

M1

Overall Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

S42

Q64*

BX18

Q42

B39

BX46

M35

B84

B74

B42

Brooklyn Top 10

B15

B6

B82

B44

B8

B41

B63

B49

B103*

B57

Brooklyn Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

B70

B65

B100*

B32

B31

B2

B39

B84

B74

B42

Manhattan Top 10

M101

M4

M3

M1

M15

M2

M103

M102

M7

M11

Manhattan Bottom 10

M34A SBS

M50

M106

M21

M86 SBS

M66

M8

M34 SBS

M96

M35

Queens Top 10

Q60*

Q44 SBS

Q58

Q54

Q114*

Q32

Q20B

Q65*

Q27

Q10*

Queens Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

Q09*

Q15

Q49*

Q103*

Q33*

Q40*

Q26

Q104*

Q64*

Q42

Staten Island Top 10

S78

S74

S59

S44

S94

S46

S79 SBS

S54

S57

S91

Staten Island Bottom 10

S62

S48

S51

S98

S55

S93

S56

S40

S90

S42

Bronx Top 10

BX36

BX28

BX42

BX40

BX15

BX2

BX38

BX19

BX1

BX39

Bronx Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

BX23*

BX41 SBS

BX33

BX27

BX34

BX24

BX20

BX29

BX18

BX46

Speed

Overall Top 10

Q35*

S55

S79 SBS

BX29

S56

S89

Q52*

S59

S90

S78

Overall Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

M14D

M34A SBS

M14A

M22

M50

M116

M66

M57

M31

M42

Brooklyn Top 10

B84

B100*

B44 SBS

B32

B103*

B74

B31

B64

B1

B82

Brooklyn Bottom 10

B57

B48

B25

B14

B11

B54

B63

B45

B35

B12

Manhattan Top 10

M35

M60 SBS

M98

M15 SBS

M5

M2

M12

M10

M4

M11

Manhattan Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

M14D

M34A SBS

M14A

M116

M50

M22

M66

M57

M31

M42

Queens Top 10

Q35*

Q52*

Q50*

Q53*

Q46

Q113*

Q88

Q22*

Q100*

Q16

Queens Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

Q112*

Q09*

Q23*

Q60*

Q101*

Q56

Q33*

Q49*

Q72*

Q32

Staten Island Top 10

S55

S79 SBS

S56

S89

S59

S90

S78

S93

S74

S40

Staten Island Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

S96

S44

S91

S42

S53

S46

S52

S94

S98

S48

Bronx Top 10

BX29

BX23*

BX12 SBS

BX46

BX41 SBS

BX24

BX10

BX16

BX8

BX5

Bronx Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

BX2

BX4

BX13

BX32

BX4A

BX15

BX11

BX19

BX35

BX33

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A couple of thoughts:

The S55/56 have a double-digit level of riders per mile (the S89 does as well, but it's a rush hour-only route, so it's not quite as bad)

Interesting enough, the B1 ranks above the B41 & B74 in terms of per-mile ridership.

I thought the B38 would've been the busiest of the Bed-Stuy routes in terms of per-mile ridership, but I guess the B52 is a little more compact (on a side note, I wonder which branch they used as the official length. Likely the Seneca branch).

No surprise that the busiest routes overall are in the East Flatbush area.

A little bit surprising that the M2 & M5 (this was the 2016 version BTW) ranked so low in terms of Manhattan per-mile ridership. I guess with all the crosstown routes taking up the higher ranks, the M2 & M5 sort of just fall towards the bottom.

The Q64 is like the B42/74 of Brooklyn. A short, compact route.

The S48/98 is the only SI route that had over 1,000 riders per mile (the S53 barely missed the mark. Prior to the S93 expansion, it likely would've reached it)

As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm a little surprised to see the Bx35 so high in terms of per-mile ridership.

I'm a little surprised to see the M4 ranked above the M3 in terms of average runtime. Broadway uptown struck me as pretty free-flowing.

The Q10 struck me as a little odd as being in the top 10 in terms of runtime for Queens routes.

I guess Fordham traffic must be pretty bad if the Bx28 is ranking that high in terms of runtime.

I'll double check, but I think the Bx23 times for for the round-trip (I know the Bx41 SBS is quick, but I can't see it having a shorter runtime than what is essentially a shuttle to Co-Op City)

Hmm, so the Q35 is the quickest route in the city. I guess it makes sense, considering a good portion of its run is the segment over the Gil Hodges Bridge (I think that's the name of that bridge)

Wow, so the B84 is the quickest Brooklyn route. I guess similar to the S55 it's easy to get high speeds when you barely have to make stops.

For those who live in the East Flatbush area, is the B12 really that slow? I forget what I calculated with Excel, but it came out with something like 3.5 mph (walking speed basically). I was a little surprised with the B14 as well.

Surprised the Bx33 & Bx35 are that slow in The Bronx. 

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54 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Hmm, so the Q35 is the quickest route in the city. I guess it makes sense, considering a good portion of its run is the segment over the Gil Hodges Bridge (I think that's the name of that bridge)

 

Yeah I live in part of Brooklyn where the Q35 makes it rounds and I took it to far rockaway to ride to Q53 sbs and I got to an upper part in queens much faster than going through manhattan. Its just a few stops in brooklyn and a lot in queens. 

 

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Looks like the bus routes that weren't much of anything are starting to gain more passengers than bus routes that had high ridership back in 2010. I guess it could be that those bus routes are easier to get to a transfer or passengers can rely on it to come frequently. 

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3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Yeah I live in part of Brooklyn where the Q35 makes it rounds and I took it to far rockaway to ride to Q53 sbs and I got to an upper part in queens much faster than going through manhattan. Its just a few stops in brooklyn and a lot in queens. 

6

You mean Rockaway Park?

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Looks like the bus routes that weren't much of anything are starting to gain more passengers than bus routes that had high ridership back in 2010. I guess it could be that those bus routes are easier to get to a transfer or passengers can rely on it to come frequently. 

 

Which routes were you thinking of in particular?

On a side note, I'm sure this was just related to the methodology they used, but I notice there's errors with respect to how many subway transfer points are available. For example, on the B46 SBS, it mentions it only has one stop within 0.1 miles of a subway station (likely the Fulton Line), which was probably based off the distance from the center of the station to the bus stop. In reality, as well all know, it connects with the (3)(4) at Eastern Parkway and (J) at its northern terminal.

On a side note, they combined the M5 & M55 ridership. I looked, and for a second I thought the M55 had 10,000+ riders (the old M6 had around 4,300). They should've just left it blank, considering the M55 didn't even exist in 2016.

Also, none of the SI bus routes have the connections to the SIR counted (it's mentioned in the Glossary that the SIR is included). Though as an SI resident, I don't really consider the SIR an actual subway line (the advantage it has over the parallel local buses is that it's quicker for long distances and it doesn't get stuck in traffic. But the frequency of the S7X routes is generally better). 

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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I'm both surprised and not surprised that the Bx32 is at the bottom 10 in the Bronx in terms of speed... the route can move fine, but the worst part of that route is leading up to Fordham Road. The traffic on either side of Jerome towards Fordham Road is always backed up and it's totally because of the fact that the green light on Jerome is only on for 20-30 seconds. I've certainly had some quick rides on the Bx32 but I can see how compared to the rest of the Bronx routes it's a bit slower than the rest.

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Something real quick I want to say....

The amount of passengers that some route garners over a given mile, by itself, AFAIC, means nothing.... It's not a measure of efficiency nor a measure of usefulness.... Routes that have significant (official) nonstop portions that still carry a massive amount of riders (a la Q53, S79, and B103) are "penalized" in such a stat..... The # of total trips and/or total # of stops (not just the totals in 1 direction) in any "passenger per _______" stat would be more meaningful (and relatable).....

Express buses would bring up the rearrrrrr in such a stat (never mind there being express routes that amass more ridership than some local routes)..... The same way the Manhattan crosstowns are "rewarded" in such a stat (7 out of the top 10 routes - and look at how astronomical the other 3 routes have to be, ridership-wise).... This isn't to say that those Manhattan routes don't carry heavy, but more a question of, just what is the stat supposed to convey, or be indicative of? Hell, even the passenger mile stat would've piqued my interest more....

------------------------

I'll speak on some of Checkmate's listed thoughts there, and other things, later....

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13 hours ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

I'm both surprised and not surprised that the Bx32 is at the bottom 10 in the Bronx in terms of speed... the route can move fine, but the worst part of that route is leading up to Fordham Road. The traffic on either side of Jerome towards Fordham Road is always backed up and it's totally because of the fact that the green light on Jerome is only on for 20-30 seconds. I've certainly had some quick rides on the Bx32 but I can see how compared to the rest of the Bronx routes it's a bit slower than the rest.

It surely doesn't help the Bx32's speed that Jerome Avenue is only one lane leading up to the major intersections (Burnside, 183rd, Fordham, Kingsbridge). The Bee-Line buses crawl heading outbound through Woodlawn for the very same reason. The Mosholu Parkway area is the only part the DOT did right where they have a separate median for buses to board and a passing lane for cars on the outer lane.

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On 12/28/2017 at 3:20 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Speed

Queens Bottom 10 (Highest to Lowest)

Q112*

Q09*

Q23*

Q60*

Q101*

Q56

Q33*

Q49*

Q72*

Q32

 

im not surpised to see the Q60/Q32 on the speed bottom 10. Traffic on the bridge and along queens blvd is the worse. Instead of taking the bus to the city, it seems faster to get off along 33/40/46 st and queens blvd and get on the 7 train

whenever i ride the Q23, it always get stuck in a ton of traffic along Austin St

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13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Something real quick I want to say....

The amount of passengers that some route garners over a given mile, by itself, AFAIC, means nothing.... It's not a measure of efficiency nor a measure of usefulness.... Routes that have significant (official) nonstop portions that still carry a massive amount of riders (a la Q53, S79, and B103) are "penalized" in such a stat..... The # of total trips and/or total # of stops (not just the totals in 1 direction) in any "passenger per _______" stat would be more meaningful (and relatable).....

Express buses would bring up the rearrrrrr in such a stat (never mind there being express routes that amass more ridership than some local routes)..... The same way the Manhattan crosstowns are "rewarded" in such a stat (7 out of the top 10 routes - and look at how astronomical the other 3 routes have to be, ridership-wise).... This isn't to say that those Manhattan routes don't carry heavy, but more a question of, just what is the stat supposed to convey, or be indicative of? Hell, even the passenger mile stat would've piqued my interest more....

------------------------

I'll speak on some of Checkmate's listed thoughts there, and other things, later....

8

Out of curiosity, which stat are you referring to?

In any case, I figured I'd do something a little different. The top 10 for general ridership is usually done by whoever happens to be posting about that year's ridership stats, so I figured I'd do per-mile ridership, since it does more justice to shorter routes (aside from the Manhattan crosstowns, there's the Q64s and B42/74s of the world). But you're right that it doesn't do justice to routes with minimal service (e.g. Rush hour routes like the S42, Bx20, Q26, and Q42), and the routes you mentioned where you have a long nonstop portion where you physically can't pick up any passengers.

I posted this on Subchat, and somebody offered to post up the total number of trips, so from there, I can calculate passengers per bus (and passengers per bus per mile), and also passengers per revenue hour (which is closely correlated with the cost per passenger stat that the MTA likes to put out, and might be one of the more useful stats, because it gives you an idea of how many passengers a B/O might pick up in a given shift/run on that route). 

Passengers per stop would be an interesting stat, but I think it would tilt it a little too far in favor of routes like the S79 (The SBS conversion brought it from something like 80 stops to 22 stops, and ridership went up significantly). I think the SBS conversion was great, but I think we can agree that the route didn't become 4-5 times more useful just because almost 3/4 of the stops were removed). 

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The B32 and B84 could gain more ridership if they ran more frequent, or extended to somewhere like Broadway Junction in the B84's case. Giving both routes n43 levels of service doesn't work out in Brooklyn.

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22 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

A couple of thoughts:

The S55/56 have a double-digit level of riders per mile (the S89 does as well, but it's a rush hour-only route, so it's not quite as bad)

Interesting enough, the B1 ranks above the B41 & B74 in terms of per-mile ridership.

I thought the B38 would've been the busiest of the Bed-Stuy routes in terms of per-mile ridership, but I guess the B52 is a little more compact (on a side note, I wonder which branch they used as the official length. Likely the Seneca branch).

No surprise that the busiest routes overall are in the East Flatbush area.

A little bit surprising that the M2 & M5 (this was the 2016 version BTW) ranked so low in terms of Manhattan per-mile ridership. I guess with all the crosstown routes taking up the higher ranks, the M2 & M5 sort of just fall towards the bottom.

The Q64 is like the B42/74 of Brooklyn. A short, compact route.

The S48/98 is the only SI route that had over 1,000 riders per mile (the S53 barely missed the mark. Prior to the S93 expansion, it likely would've reached it)

As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm a little surprised to see the Bx35 so high in terms of per-mile ridership.

I'm a little surprised to see the M4 ranked above the M3 in terms of average runtime. Broadway uptown struck me as pretty free-flowing.

The Q10 struck me as a little odd as being in the top 10 in terms of runtime for Queens routes.

I guess Fordham traffic must be pretty bad if the Bx28 is ranking that high in terms of runtime.

I'll double check, but I think the Bx23 times for for the round-trip (I know the Bx41 SBS is quick, but I can't see it having a shorter runtime than what is essentially a shuttle to Co-Op City)

Hmm, so the Q35 is the quickest route in the city. I guess it makes sense, considering a good portion of its run is the segment over the Gil Hodges Bridge (I think that's the name of that bridge)

Wow, so the B84 is the quickest Brooklyn route. I guess similar to the S55 it's easy to get high speeds when you barely have to make stops.

For those who live in the East Flatbush area, is the B12 really that slow? I forget what I calculated with Excel, but it came out with something like 3.5 mph (walking speed basically). I was a little surprised with the B14 as well.

Surprised the Bx33 & Bx35 are that slow in The Bronx. 

- The B12, it's hit or miss with it being that slow, but yes, it can get that slow...  There's been times I've taken the B12 after work (after getting off the LIRR) where it took over an hour to get to Albany/Clarkson.... What would cause it, quite frankly, is the WB traffic up from the underpass funneling onto Pacific st, not being able to smoothly proceed onto ENY av, due to those 2 turns you gotta make to get to ENY av (pacific to sackman, then sackman > ENY av).... The latter is the worst of it, because ENY av EB has a lot of traffic heading in that direction as well (sackman is where ENY av goes from 1 way to 2-way btw).... ENY av in that specific area is narrow - which makes it tough for all that WB traffic to make that right hand turn.... Sometimes, you'll get slow moving traffic b/w Rockaway Pkwy & Utica as well.... Sometimes, you'll get slow moving traffic during its stint on Albany... Oddly enough, none of this is the main reason I'm fed up w/ the thing..... I'll stop here, since I've been on enough B12 rants....

- The B84 doesn't pick up much of anyone, but I'm a little surprised that it's the fastest route in this borough..... My guess would've been a route like the B100 (all things considered, buses get b/w Mill Basin & Kings Hwy (B)(Q) pretty quickly) or the B31..... There's a stark difference in the pace that the B31 & 100, (and the S55) moves, to how the B84 moves.....

- The Q35 being the quickest route in the city is most definitely thanks to the Queens portion of the route; the Brooklyn portion only brings down the avg. rate of speed of the route a bit (whatever it is).... I've said on here many times that, if you're heading to B. 116th & nobody's xferring from off the Q22, then you're gonna have a straight shot to B. 116th.... If you're on a Brooklyn bound bus, really, the only thing that slows it down is B. 169th (passenger activity & the u-turn after having served the physical stop)....

- The Bx33 crawls in Manhattan (it's not due to traffic either).... The Bronx portion, E. 138th around Third av, that's where traffic is a bit of a problem (IDK how far east it extends to though) .... The Bx35 is slow in the Bronx, large in part, due to the sheer passenger activity of it... "Them thaaar hills" in High Bridge won't be of any help in speeding things up either.....

- Nah, it's not the Fordham section that exacerbates the Bx28's runtime, it's the Norwood portion actually.... Good luck getting b/w 205th (D) & Gun Hill (2)(5) in any timely fashion throughout a large chunk of the day.... It's largely due to traffix from on/off the Bronx River Pkwy.... Hospital traffic (pedestrian & vechicular) along/around Bainbridge/Gun Hill rd only makes matters worse....

- Bx41 SBS flies, Bx23 f**kin crawls; outside of fanning, I can't be bothered with it.... OTOH, the MTA disseminated the old Bx41 (Hub - Wakefield) by keeping the quickest portion of the route & eventually threw SBS onto it (they aint slick).... Webster, which is wide enough, really only gets a noticeable amt. of standstill traffic in Bedford park (up from Fordham rd) & it's spotty throughout the course of the day.... The difference is probably by a tiny margin & I can believe it.....

- M4 above the M3 in terms of avg. runtime.... Oh, a ride on the M4 from end to end is definitely longer than the M3..... I think you maybe overlooking the Ft. Washington av portion (it's not a breeze & it's most definitely prone to standstill traffic at times)..... I agree that Broadway up in the 'heights is more or less free-flowing.... I'd say the St. Nicholas portion of the M3 & the Broadway portion of the M4 in Washington hgts. both cancel each other out..... I'd say that b/w 110th/Madison & the Bx6 (155th), the edge goes to the  M3 (M4 b/w that stretch takes up more mileage & significantly has more passenger activity on top of it).... The time it takes the M3 to get to 32nd from Astor doesn't come close to offsetting the time it takes the M4 to serve the entire Ft. Washington av. portion.... If the difference of overall runtime is around 10-15 mins, I can understand it.... anything greater than like 15, then IDK....

- Q10 top ten in longest runtime... I don't have an explanation/opinion for that one, but I'm more surprised at the Q20B being up there over routes like the Q24 (especially) & the Q8.... I don't know how bad 14th av up there is these days, but 20th av is hit or miss (mall traffic & traffic from the Whitestone)....

- Yep, the Q64 is no joke & I've always said that I'm (boxed) in-between some of the most heaviest utilized routes in the city (B35, B46, B8, B44).....

- The B52 is that much shorter than the B38..... Fact of the matter is, the B52 is far more direct b/w Broadway & Ridgewood, proper... Even though more people take the B38 b/w Broadway & Ridgewood, it (the routing) still encompasses more territory - which means in a stat like ridership/mile, the B38 has to garner that much more riders at a rate of (whatever the numerical factor is) to make up for the fact that the B52 is as straight-forward as it gets along Gates, to Ridgewood..... IDK which branch of the B38 they used either, but it can be figured out by seeing which ridership distance they used as the divisor for the calculation, then draw either one of the branches on google maps or something (which shows the  distance) & compare the two numbers.....

- Per mile ridership of the B1.... I can believe it for the B41, but the B74 is more surprising to me.... B41 overall has lost ridership in droves & specifically, the portion along Flatbush b/w [Livingston] & [Eastern pkwy.] (not inclusive) really only gets good usage at Times Plaza & at 7th (SB)..... 5th is ok-ish, the rest of those local stops are very subpar..... Add to that mileage, the portion of the route b/w Empire (not inclusive) & Grand army plz (2)(3) (inclusive) and you'll have a sum total of at least a mile where ridership is rather poor-to-nonexistent.... If Flatbush av (north of Grand army) wasn't the traffic mess that it is, you're pretty much talking about a straight shot to Atlantic terminal if you're on a NB bus (due to passenger inactivity)..... Regarding the B74 comparative end of it all, well, I guess it's due to the B1's usage being THAT superior to the B74.....

desismileys_3267.gif

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On 12/30/2017 at 8:56 AM, B35 via Church said:

Something real quick I want to say....

The amount of passengers that some route garners over a given mile, by itself, AFAIC, means nothing.... It's not a measure of efficiency nor a measure of usefulness.... Routes that have significant (official) nonstop portions that still carry a massive amount of riders (a la Q53, S79, and B103) are "penalized" in such a stat..... The # of total trips and/or total # of stops (not just the totals in 1 direction) in any "passenger per _______" stat would be more meaningful (and relatable).....

Express buses would bring up the rearrrrrr in such a stat (never mind there being express routes that amass more ridership than some local routes)..... The same way the Manhattan crosstowns are "rewarded" in such a stat (7 out of the top 10 routes - and look at how astronomical the other 3 routes have to be, ridership-wise).... This isn't to say that those Manhattan routes don't carry heavy, but more a question of, just what is the stat supposed to convey, or be indicative of? Hell, even the passenger mile stat would've piqued my interest more....

Passengers per mile is a useful stat when it comes to things like bus lanes or improvements; yes, long distance routes do get shafted a bit (the Q44 and Q50 do really badly because, well, water), but in general since we don't have fine-grained O&D data for bus riders it's basically the next best thing. It at least helps makes the case that a stretch of bus lane would be wildly effective on X route and have less of an impact on some other route.

Plus, with a statistic like this long routes with more end-to-end ridership get shafted, but they wind up landing somewhere around the middle, not at the bottom. The statistic only measures turnover, not necessarily how full things are on a route, but in general routes with high turnover also tend to be pretty full, and they're higher up on the priority list than those that aren't.

Edited by bobtehpanda

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1. I see some of the frequencies placed in the profile are off. The M14D is listed at 20 BPH for rush hour when the schedule shows 24. The Bx12 SBS has 15 BPH listed when you’ll see 17. And that’s just what I’m able to confirm based off memory.

2. I can see based on the disparity between peak service and evening service on a lot of these routes that the MTA is incredibly stingy with off peak service. That alone is a problem as far as retaining ridership as commuters move beyond traditional peak commutes.There aren’t many routes where the MTA gets midday and evening service right which is sad since seats are to be had on these buses (for the most part).

3. I never liked tracking ridership per mile because it tends to understate the intensity at which the real heavy hitters get utilized. It’s just common sense that some miles are busier than others on local bus routes so when you look at the busiest 2- 3 mile segment of a Bx12, M15, B46 level route there is far more passenger activity there than is reflected by say 6,000 riders per mile (which is about where these routes are at).  The Manhattan crosstowns are mostly 2-3 miles long in their entirety plus you get turnover at the subway connections. 

4. I wonder if there’s a stat that can be used to determine which routes are filling up the vehicles to crushload status most and least often throughout the day. I would be curious to see whether the routes that would lead such a stat are mid ridership routes being underserved or routes that have such high passenger activity that a couple of extra buses would hardly make a difference.

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14 hours ago, NY1635 said:

The B32 and B84 could gain more ridership if they ran more frequent, or extended to somewhere like Broadway Junction in the B84's case. Giving both routes n43 levels of service doesn't work out in Brooklyn.

Problem with B32 is that it’s a waterfront shuttle in Williamsburg that’s not only regularly late leaving either terminal, it competes with the (L) in its usefulness, since in the densest part of its route, it’s more advantageous to walk to the (L) at Bedford than to ride it to Marcy or Court Square.

Maybe it’ll get more riders and more service with the (L) shutdown, but that’ll be temporary.

I used it when I worked at Greendesk (Kent/North 1st) to get to Marcy (because I avoided the (L) because I kept barely missing the breakdowns of 2015 (even got a tweet quoted in gothamist), but there might’ve been 10 people on the bus with me at the most.

Same with Q59 in Williamsburg.

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On 12/29/2017 at 10:45 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Which routes were you thinking of in particular?

I have the same question.... I want to debunk that fallacy that was brought up, point for point (route for route)....

On 12/31/2017 at 1:30 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Out of curiosity, which stat are you referring to?

You don't have it on the excel file, but all the passenger mile is, is a measurement of consumption in terms of miles (instead of, in terms of people)... It's the inverse of passengers/mile....

e/g] B74 in 2016: 4,225 avg. riders/weekday.....  2,817 avg. riders/mile a weekday.... 6,337.50 avg. (revenue) passenger miles a weekday.

I chose a route that has no short turns, on purpose.... But if I rode the full loop of the B74 twice in 2016, I'd have... stopped off at Nathan's afterwards.
Seriously though, I'd have accounted for 6 of those passenger miles...

On 12/31/2017 at 9:51 AM, NY1635 said:

The B32 and B84 could gain more ridership if they ran more frequent, or extended to somewhere like Broadway Junction in the B84's case. Giving both routes n43 levels of service doesn't work out in Brooklyn.

Agree for the B32, seriously doubt it for the B84..... I don't believe it's a case of infrequency w/ the B84, but more, a] the market it was created to address is far too narrow & b] that newly formed community/area down in Spring Creek is developing too slowly... They're trying to make Spring Creek the next best thing & I don't see it ever happening....

This YT video was upped in 2014, but I actually saw this commercial on TV for the first time just last night & I laughed my ass off at it....

20 hours ago, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

....I wonder if there’s a stat that can be used to determine which routes are filling up the vehicles to crushload status most and least often throughout the day. I would be curious to see whether the routes that would lead such a stat are mid ridership routes being underserved or routes that have such high passenger activity that a couple of extra buses would hardly make a difference.

Scary, because I was thinking the exact same shit when I made my initial post in this thread.... The term I came up for it was a "crushload factor".... Sounds sabermetric-like, but IDC... I think something like that would be useful.... I personally don't care about how many passengers are divvied up into how many miles that route travels....

13 hours ago, Deucey said:

Problem with B32 is that it’s a waterfront shuttle in Williamsburg that’s not only regularly late leaving either terminal, it competes with the (L) in its usefulness, since in the densest part of its route, it’s more advantageous to walk to the (L) at Bedford than to ride it to Marcy or Court Square.

Maybe it’ll get more riders and more service with the (L) shutdown, but that’ll be temporary.

I used it when I worked at Greendesk (Kent/North 1st) to get to Marcy (because I avoided the (L) because I kept barely missing the breakdowns of 2015 (even got a tweet quoted in gothamist), but there might’ve been 10 people on the bus with me at the most.

Same with Q59 in Williamsburg.

The B32 itself doesn't compete with the (L), it competes with the (G).... The market the B32 was created to address is completely separate of anything involving the L.... The more hipster Williamsburg (and Long Island City) grows, the more the B32 will catch on.... The L will always reign supreme in that part of Williamsburg regardless....

What you're conveying in that first paragraph is that the (L) competes with the (J)(M)(Z) in Williamsburg & that folks in Williamsburg find the L more beneficial....

The Q59 OTOH competes with the (L) & it does a terrible job at it.

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Whats the reason for the drop in :bus_bullet_b41: ridership over the years?

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8 hours ago, SubBus said:

Whats the reason for the drop in :bus_bullet_b41: ridership over the years?

Is that a serious question? The same reason ridership is dropping in various lines:

-Slow, overcrowded, late, missing buses

-I'm sure those $1 vans aren't helping either

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8 hours ago, SubBus said:

Whats the reason for the drop in :bus_bullet_b41: ridership over the years?

The area north of Grand Army Plaza gentrified over the years and the new residents of Prospect Heights use the (B)(Q) or Uber as their mode of transportation over the B41.

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7 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

The area north of Grand Army Plaza gentrified over the years and the new residents of Prospect Heights use the (B)(Q) or Uber as their mode of transportation over the B41.

Oh please. While that's certainly one issue, but it's not THAT big of an issue. Prospect Heights has been genfrifying for years now. 

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33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh please. While that's certainly one issue, but it's not THAT big of an issue. Prospect Heights has been genfrifying for years now. 

Blame Mayor DeBlasio for his Vision Zero campaign and the DOT's lack of planning for all the congestion on Flatbush Ave in that area. Prospect Heights is more pedestrian friendly at the expense of the B41 crawling on Flatbush between Grand Army Plaza and Atlantic Avenue.

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1 hour ago, NY1635 said:

Blame Mayor DeBlasio for his Vision Zero campaign and the DOT's lack of planning for all the congestion on Flatbush Ave in that area. Prospect Heights is more pedestrian friendly at the expense of the B41 crawling on Flatbush between Grand Army Plaza and Atlantic Avenue.

Vision Zero is definitely a big reason but that area has been a disaster well before de Blasio took office. His policies have only made things worse.  

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11 hours ago, SubBus said:

Whats the reason for the drop in :bus_bullet_b41: ridership over the years?

I will say this. The 41 usefulness these days is between Empire Blvd and Kings Plaza. I could go as far back as the 90's that the B41 was very reliable when it came to on-time performance and was always in the top 10. A couple of times during the years it did beat out the B46. 

However, now you have Über, Lyft, Via and the (B)(Q) on Empire and these damm jitney buses that are all over Flatbush. Unless things change you will see ridership drop on the 41. 

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3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I will say this. The 41 usefulness these days is between Empire Blvd and Kings Plaza. I could go as far back as the 90's that the B41 was very reliable when it came to on-time performance and was always in the top 10. A couple of times during the years it did beat out the B46. 

However, now you have Über, Lyft, Via and the (B)(Q) on Empire and these damm jitney buses that are all over Flatbush. Unless things change you will see ridership drop on the 41. 

The problems I have with the B41 is that it’s often underserved on the Bergen beach branch and it not being on time as well. When I was in high school I relied so much on it until around my last year in school I took the Q to kings hwy and the B100 home. I mentioned in another post I literally walked home a few times from Flatbush junction to Bergen beach and got home before a bus was able to get there. I see lots of buses going to kings plaza but never Bergen beach. The buses would be so packed with passengers that you just have to rush to get on. My family avoids the 41. Even though now I just take it to he junction on some days to transfer to the B6, but it really is a sad bus route now. 

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28 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

The problems I have with the B41 is that it’s often underserved on the Bergen beach branch and it not being on time as well. When I was in high school I relied so much on it until around my last year in school I took the Q to kings hwy and the B100 home. I mentioned in another post I literally walked home a few times from Flatbush junction to Bergen beach and got home before a bus was able to get there. I see lots of buses going to kings plaza but never Bergen beach. The buses would be so packed with passengers that you just have to rush to get on. My family avoids the 41. Even though now I just take it to he junction on some days to transfer to the B6, but it really is a sad bus route now. 

How in the world do you walk from the Junction all the way to Bergen Beach? That's a long walk...

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