Bronx Redesign Draft Released

[Lawrence St]

15 minutes ago, Mpn4179 said:

The same scenario was proposed in the Draft plan, but the community strongly opposed that plan so this is the alternative.

The community strongly apposed cause they don't want anything to change.

With that mentality we'll never get anywhere with these redesigns, needs to toughen up honestly.

[Lawrence St]

Just now, B35 via Church said:

What makes the Bx23 the gold standard for the transit needs of the lion's share of Co-Op City patrons?

Apparently getting to/from Co-Op City in an easterly-westerly fashion isn't a priority, according to this nonsense you're blurting out here.....

Am I correct in the fact that most if not everyone in Co-Op city is going to Pelham Bay Park?

[B35 via Church]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Am I correct in the fact that most if not everyone in Co-Op city is going to Pelham Bay Park?

Absolutely not..... The level of ridership on the Bx26, Bx28, and Bx30 says otherwise.....

Your laughing reaction to my last post, in conjunction to this latest post of yours just highlights the sheer ignorance you have when it comes to Co-Op City....

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The community strongly apposed cause they don't want anything to change.

With that mentality we'll never get anywhere with these redesigns, needs to toughen up honestly.

Probably... But at the same time, that doesn't mean any type of opposition is without merit, either....

Edited November 6, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Mpn4179]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Am I correct in the fact that most if not everyone in Co-Op city is going to Pelham Bay Park?

No. The majority wants crosstown service (combination of the Bx26, Bx28/38 and Bx30) depending on where they’re going, not Pelham Bay Park. If that was the case, then the Bx23, Bx29, Q50 would have been more utilized more than they have been in Co-op City.

[Lawrence St]

26 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Absolutely not..... The level of ridership on the Bx26, Bx28, and Bx30 says otherwise.....

Your laughing reaction to my last post, in conjunction to this latest post of yours just highlights the sheer ignorance you have when it comes to Co-Op City....

Probably... But at the same time, that doesn't mean any type of opposition is without merit, either....

I didn't laugh react at your post, I upvoted it.

Yes, the opposition is because people don't want things to change. Look at Country Club, they wanted to reroute something and they lost their minds.

[B35 via Church]

21 minutes ago, Mpn4179 said:

No. The majority wants crosstown service (combination of the Bx26, Bx28/38 and Bx30) depending on where they’re going, not Pelham Bay Park. If that was the case, then the Bx23, Bx29, Q50 would have been more utilized more than they have been in Co-op City.

That, and the former group of bus routes specifically serving Co-Op City would've never lasted as long as they have....

17 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't laugh react at your post, I upvoted it.

The lack of cognizance.....

-----------------------------------------

 

17 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes, the opposition is because people don't want things to change. Look at Country Club, they wanted to reroute something and they lost their minds.

...and again, it doesn't mean said opposition is without merit.

As it relates to this discussion, this narrative you're on here with the MTA needing to toughen up, comes across as if any opposition is unfounded..... The situation that transpired with Country Club & you thinking you can serve Co-Op City with one frickin bus route, pales in comparison....

[Lawrence St]

7 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

That, and the former group of bus routes specifically serving Co-Op City would've never lasted as long as they have....

The lack of cognizance.....

-----------------------------------------

 

...and again, it doesn't mean said opposition is without merit.

As it relates to this discussion, this narrative you're on here with the MTA needing to toughen up, comes across as if any opposition is unfounded..... The situation that transpired with Country Club & you thinking you can serve Co-Op City with one frickin bus route, pales in comparison....

Huh, my fault then. It's fixed now.

[Mpn4179]

53 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't laugh react at your post, I upvoted it.

Yes, the opposition is because people don't want things to change. Look at Country Club, they wanted to reroute something and they lost their minds.

That’s because they went through that back in June 2010 with those “doomsday” cuts. They hated it for multiple reasons and by January 2011 it was reverted back with the present day Bx24.

“Been there, done that, not gonna happen again.”

It wasn’t just the Country Club residents that didn’t approve, the Edgewater Park and Locust Point residents didn’t want that scenario either.

[R10 2952]

23 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I don't know why they didn't do something like this to get rid of all the circuitous business involving the Bx10 and Bx28.

17 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Which is why the route looks like an electrocardiogram. 

I would have suggested streamlining with a slight extension for better connectivity:  Current path into Sedgwick, then right Goulden, left Bedford Park, left Jerome, right Van Cortlandt Av East, left Bainbridge, right Gun Hill, to White Plains Rd.

16 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry, but all these communities who don't want routing change screw up the redesign for everyone else.

At this point, is only 20% of the original draft plan being implemented? That's ridiculous.

16 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Buford's Revision plan a not making only a few tweaks. Guess once he left, someone was too lazy to do a real redesign. 

13 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Doesn’t mean it is not possible to design competent plan that helps more than it hurts. Or is the MTA not capable of that?

If a community is opposed to a change, the MTA should develop alternatives to accomplish the same purpose, not just say, okay we will just leave the route as is. 

13 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Exactly. There was a reason why they changed those routes in the first place.

Just because a community is opposed to change doesn't mean you just don't change the route at all.

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The community strongly apposed cause they don't want anything to change.

With that mentality we'll never get anywhere with these redesigns, needs to toughen up honestly.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees through the MTA's bad-faith excuses, smokescreens and outright bullshit regarding the Bx1/2/10 routing in the Jerome Park area.  In it's current form, it doesn't work and frankly never has.  You would think with all the people ditching mass transit for cars in droves now, the agency would be trying to attract people to its services, not push them away.  Choosing to fix something that is very much broken is not progress- it's malaise.

 

@Via Garibaldi 8@MysteriousBtrain I don't know where you two get off lecturing me on a route that I rode nearly every day, east of Broadway, for over 10 calendar years.  The vast majority of the riders who stayed on the bus past Broadway were trying to get to the , or employees of the medical facilities east of Jerome.  Having the Bx10 go straight to Mosholu station instead of making that awkward detour to Bedford would have made the morning commute a lot easier for us working folks.

A bunch of AARP busybodies and helicopter parents shouting at a hearing is not representative of the entire community.  You think the rest of us sat tight and did nothing? You have any idea how many of our letters received canned responses or were flat-out ignored? Or the turds the agency was squeezing out when people in Spuyten Duyvil were practically pleading with them to fix the Bx20? 

Same nonsense as when I was growing up in Queens.  The Q38 sucked performance-wise and made no sense routing-wise (two very related issues).  The only people happy with it were senior citizens with too much time on their hands.  Everyone else hated dealing with it, but had no other choice.

Edited November 6, 2021 by R10 2952

[MysteriousBtrain]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Am I correct in the fact that most if not everyone in Co-Op city is going to Pelham Bay Park?

If you have to ask yourself that question that absolutely means you don't know what you are talking about.

 

4 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

@Via Garibaldi 8@MysteriousBtrain I don't know where you two get off lecturing me on a route that I rode nearly every day, east of Broadway, for over 10 calendar years.  The vast majority of the riders who stayed on the bus past Broadway were trying to get to the , or employees of the medical facilities east of Jerome. 

And connections to Lehman College and Bronx HS of Science. You might not notice it (it happens a lot and mostly in peak) but the Bx10 is the only route that connects to these schools west of Jerome Avenue, and Ik I would be annoyed if I was a student and I had to transfer and walk several blocks from Moshulu and I lived in Kingsbridge Hts or Riverdale. 

[BrooklynBus]

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I disagree. The Bronx actually had some lines re-designed not that long ago, so there wasn't a need to go crazy with changes.

Come on now. You of all people know how things work. The  is trying to improve its image as being more customer focused. There's also another issue here of how much money exists to implement these redesigns. There isn't a unlimited budget. I think a good compromise was reached. The  got hundreds of stops eliminated to help speed up service and the riders got to keep their routes as they want them. Having attended these meetings, people were very clear about what they wanted and why and the  should respect those wishes. After all, who knows better what they need than the people that use the lines?

The last time Bronx routes were redesigned was in the 80s. I wasn't drawing any conclusions whether the plan is good or not. You may be right that a good compromise was reached. I wasn't talking about the plan's specifics but just in general terms. If there is some oposition, the first reaction should not be okay then we won't change anything. If more than one option was proposed and both were rejected, then leaving a route unchanged would be the correct choice. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees through the MTA's bad-faith excuses, smokescreens and outright bullshit regarding the Bx1/2/10 routing in the Jerome Park area.  In it's current form, it doesn't work and frankly never has.  You would think with all the people ditching mass transit for cars in droves now, the agency would be trying to attract people to its services, not push them away.  Choosing to fix something that is very much broken is not progress- it's malaise.

 

@Via Garibaldi 8@MysteriousBtrain I don't know where you two get off lecturing me on a route that I rode nearly every day, east of Broadway, for over 10 calendar years.  The vast majority of the riders who stayed on the bus past Broadway were trying to get to the , or employees of the medical facilities east of Jerome.  Having the Bx10 go straight to Mosholu station instead of making that awkward detour to Bedford would have made the morning commute a lot easier for us working folks.

A bunch of AARP busybodies and helicopter parents shouting at a hearing is not representative of the entire community.  You think the rest of us sat tight and did nothing? You have any idea how many of our letters received canned responses or were flat-out ignored? Or the turds the agency was squeezing out when people in Spuyten Duyvil were practically pleading with them to fix the Bx20? 

Same nonsense as when I was growing up in Queens.  The Q38 sucked performance-wise and made no sense routing-wise (two very related issues).  The only people happy with it were senior citizens with too much time on their hands.  Everyone else hated dealing with it, but had no other choice.

Apparently so, otherwise there would be changes made to the line. I'd like to know how many people that wanted Bx10 changes that you're going on about ad nauseam wrote to the  ? Bitching on the bus is not providing feedback to the . Now what I find funny is I was at these meetings, not for the local buses, but for express bus service, and I didn't hear anyone making any stink about the Bx10, including at the table I was at where we were supposed to discuss local bus lines in our area. What we spent time discussing was the Bx1 being extended up to W 246th St and HHP to address overcrowding on the Bx7. In any event, as I said, I rarely use the line and could care less either way, but your frustration is being directed at the wrong people. At the end of the day, the people that attended and provided feedback (in person or online) is what the   is looking at, and if people don't provide feedback in adequate numbers... Well nothing happens. At meetings for express bus service, people were extremely vocal, and we had a plethora of petitions circulated, so our voices were heard loud and clear.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

The last time Bronx routes were redesigned was in the 80s. I wasn't drawing any conclusions whether the plan is good or not. You may be right that a good compromise was reached. I wasn't talking about the plan's specifics but just in general terms. If there is some oposition, the first reaction should not be okay then we won't change anything. If more than one option was proposed and both were rejected, then leaving a route unchanged would be the correct choice. 

The thing is some of these routes are fairly direct, given the street layout, so the  eliminated stops or curtailed the routes. In speaking with them about the lines, my impression was that they were looking to streamline the routes, as much as they claimed that they were trying to add new connections. The goal was really about elongating the distance between stops where possible and making lines more direct. I will say that some of the tweaks they were going for in terms of streamlining were not that big of a deal. You'd save a few minutes here and there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That, and the former group of bus routes specifically serving Co-Op City would've never lasted as long as they have....

The lack of cognizance.....

-----------------------------------------

 

...and again, it doesn't mean said opposition is without merit.

As it relates to this discussion, this narrative you're on here with the MTA needing to toughen up, comes across as if any opposition is unfounded..... The situation that transpired with Country Club & you thinking you can serve Co-Op City with one frickin bus route, pales in comparison....

I will say that if a community doesn't want bus service meandering about their neighborhood, why should the  try to force something that Country Club doesn't want? Some of the streets that bus takes are tight to begin with. I know the individuals that were responsible for pushing back on the local bus changes there and I applaud them. The community has spoken numerous times and they live there, pay taxes there, etc. There is bus service where it is needed for those that need it.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

If you have to ask yourself that question that absolutely means you don't know what you are talking about.

 

And connections to Lehman College and Bronx HS of Science. You might not notice it (it happens a lot and mostly in peak) but the Bx10 is the only route that connects to these schools west of Jerome Avenue, and Ik I would be annoyed if I was a student and I had to transfer and walk several blocks from Moshulu and I lived in Kingsbridge Hts or Riverdale. 

Considering the fact I lived in Co-Op for a few years says otherwise.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

If you have to ask yourself that question that absolutely means you don't know what you are talking about.

 

And connections to Lehman College and Bronx HS of Science. You might not notice it (it happens a lot and mostly in peak) but the Bx10 is the only route that connects to these schools west of Jerome Avenue, and Ik I would be annoyed if I was a student and I had to transfer and walk several blocks from Moshulu and I lived in Kingsbridge Hts or Riverdale. 

Then you make it a school tripper. Why are you going to inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders?

 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I will say that if a community doesn't want bus service meandering about their neighborhood, why should the  try to force something that Country Club doesn't want? Some of the streets that bus takes are tight to begin with. I know the individuals that were responsible for pushing back on the local bus changes there and I applaud them. The community has spoken numerous times and they live there, pay taxes there, etc. There is bus service where it is needed for those that need it.

I didn't know Country Club owned streets in NYC! *sarcasm*

It's the same excuse when it comes to extending any elevated subway in NYC, NIMBY!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Then you make it a school tripper. Why are you going to inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders?

 

I didn't know Country Club owned streets in NYC! *sarcasm*

It's the same excuse when it comes to extending any elevated subway in NYC, NIMBY!

The people that live there are the ones that have to deal with buses trying to squeeze down narrow residential streets. You are a transit enthusiast who has probably never even been in some of the neighborhoods you are complaining about to see what the issues are. I have, so I get where they are coming from. Country Club is almost entirely residential, and that is one of the challenges. There is a small strip with a few stores, but that is it. Usually, buses run down commercial corridors, but since Country Club is almost all residential, this creates a conflict. The residents there have worked to reach a happy medium so that those who need local bus service get it. 

Even in my neighborhood we have the same issue with narrow streets, but because of the layout, we have no choice but to have buses running down certain corridors, but when there is a problem, we have traffic backed up for blocks, so I totally get it. These are ordinary, logical people, who have been in the neighborhood for decades. They are not elitists or NIMBYs or any of that because if they were, there would be no bus in Country Club at all. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

19 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Considering the fact I lived in Co-Op for a few years says otherwise.

That makes it even worse then because that shows that you are out of touch. A large segment of the population in Co-Op City consists of seniors that don't have cars, so they need bus service, and given how Co-Op City is laid out into sections, you should know why they have several bus lines there serving thousands of people. 

[Lawrence St]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The people that live there are the ones that have to deal with buses trying to squeeze down narrow residential streets. You are a transit enthusiast who has probably never even been in some of the neighborhoods you are complaining about to see what the issues are. I have, so I get where they are coming from. Country Club is almost entirely residential, and that is one of the challenges. There is a small strip with a few stores, but that is it. Usually, buses run down commercial corridors, but since Country Club is almost all residential, this creates a conflict. The residents there have worked to reach a happy medium so that those who need local bus service get it. 

Even in my neighborhood we have the same issue with narrow streets, but because of the layout, we have no choice but to have buses running down certain corridors, but when there is a problem, we have traffic backed up for blocks, so I totally get it. These are ordinary, logical people, who have been in the neighborhood for decades. They are not elitists or NIMBYs or any of that because if they were, there would be no bus in Country Club at all. 

I'm not a transit enthusiast when it comes to bus redesign. I lived in the Bronx for a long time and have ridden enough buses in most of these neighborhoods, there was no valid reason why Country Club didn't want the Bx24 to be changed.

It would have actually eliminated the meandering segments along Country Club Rd and streamlined it down to Locust Point.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm not a transit enthusiast when it comes to bus redesign. I lived in the Bronx for a long time and have ridden enough buses in most of these neighborhoods, there was no valid reason why Country Club didn't want the Bx24 to be changed.

It would have actually eliminated the meandering segments along Country Club Rd and streamlined it down to Locust Point.

You have numerous posts with bus proposals... I would say that you are definitely a transit enthusiast.  So you have ridden some buses and that means that people that live in a community shouldn't have a say in how bus service operates in their community when they are the primary ones using it... The reality is most of the bus lines in the Eastern part of the Bronx, the residents and riders were fine with the lines as they are, so why should they be changed just because?  If the goal of these redesigns is to give the riders of the lines what they want, then what's the problem? What has been left out of these discussions is that the Bronx will see some 400 bus stops removed across the borough, so I would say that riders have definitely been reasonable along some routes in trying to strike a balance. These are people that depend on these buses to get work, school and other important matters, so they aren't just showing up ranting and raving for the hell of it, and it's insulting that people are making such statements.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

37 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I will say that if a community doesn't want bus service meandering about their neighborhood, why should the  try to force something that Country Club doesn't want? Some of the streets that bus takes are tight to begin with. I know the individuals that were responsible for pushing back on the local bus changes there and I applaud them. The community has spoken numerous times and they live there, pay taxes there, etc. There is bus service where it is needed for those that need it.

This has a history to it..... Instead of completely cutting the Bx14, all they had to do was truncate it to Westchester Sq. from the beginning.... Complicating matters for no reason.... What the MTA tried/did with the Bx5 & the Bx8 was pure & utter nonsense.... Their gripe though wasn't the meandering, it was the choice of route (the Bx8, which was actually more direct than the former Bx14/current Bx24 in Country Club) & the amount of service that came with that choice of route, in comparison to the Bx14.... They complained that there were too many buses running in their neighborhood (which I personally think was fake outrage, but whatever)... Basically, anything that isn't/wasn't, or didn't end up being the Bx14 exactly as was, they weren't going to go down quietly on....

When the Bx14 existed, Country Club patrons seldom rode past Westchester Sq. - and that's being generous... The only people really that took Bx14's from Parkchester were people that didn't want to (or couldn't) walk over to those condo's/apartments in Parkchester - hence the creation of that Bx4a that took over the old Bx14 route b/w Parkchester subway & Westchester Sq..... Between said apt's in Parkchester & Westchester Sq., the Bx14 carried a lot of air...

But yeah, while the "leave as is" (no matter the circumstance) crowd definitely exists, that doesn't mean any form of opposition is unfounded or invalid.... That crap they pulled with the Bx5/Bx8 in that general region of the Bronx was nothing more than overplaying their hand (so to speak), being f***ing cheap....

25 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Then you make it a school tripper. Why are you going to inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders?

inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders? wtf?

What you really trying to convey here is "Why are you going to inconvenience other peak riders just for schoolkids?"

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Considering the fact I lived in Co-Op for a few years says otherwise.

Then you should know better to inquire or suggest serving Co-op with one bus route.

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm not a transit enthusiast when it comes to bus redesign. I lived in the Bronx for a long time and have ridden enough buses in most of these neighborhoods, there was no valid reason why Country Club didn't want the Bx24 to be changed.

It would have actually eliminated the meandering segments along Country Club Rd and streamlined it down to Locust Point.

You are conflating transit enthusiast & foamer here.... I don't get the sense he was trying to call you the latter....

[MysteriousBtrain]

39 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Then you make it a school tripper. Why are you going to inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders?

You realize most delays from traffic come in peak? The only issue that involves traffic outside of peak is the Norwood section. It's either you have to reroute that section and find a different terminal without losing connections to Schools and hospitals which is harder than most may realize or you keep it as it is. Nobody's winning here and it's not acceptable to lose major job and school connections because you think someone can take a train one stop or because it's gonna make a connection slower. 

The MTA already told stakeholders and riders about the options they ask for: https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/bus_network/about

For example, Ridership versus coverage compares more service to major stops and corridors compared to more routes in more areas for direct connections to even a minor stop. Connections versus one-seat rides also explore the same concept except it's more focused on connecting to a bus and/or subway connection rather than just solely a business. They already know what they signed up for if they payed attention so you can't put anything in everyone's mouth if they didn't ask for it. 

[B35 via Church]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

You realize most delays from traffic come in peak? The only issue that involves traffic outside of peak is the Norwood section. It's either you have to reroute that section and find a different terminal without losing connections to Schools and hospitals which is harder than most may realize or you keep it as it is. Nobody's winning here and it's not acceptable to lose major job and school connections because you think someone can take a train one stop or because it's gonna make a connection slower. 

The MTA already told stakeholders and riders about the options they ask for: https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/bus_network/about

For example, Ridership versus coverage compares more service to major stops and corridors compared to more routes in more areas for direct connections to even a minor stop. Connections versus one-seat rides also explore the same concept except it's more focused on connecting to a bus and/or subway connection rather than just solely a business. They already know what they signed up for if they payed attention so you can't put anything in everyone's mouth if they didn't ask for it. 

I still can't get over the question; inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders..... As if public transit doesn't exist for the masses, as if peak riders don't constitute said masses (even though off peak usage has & continues to increase, esp. since the past decade or so).... Now we're gonna sit up here & try to lessen the importance of peak patronage....

Anyway, everytime I see that frequency vs. coverage BS, I get miffed.... Like, why do riders have to be pigeonholed to appease your frugality as a transit provider.....

Edited November 6, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Mpn4179]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm not a transit enthusiast when it comes to bus redesign. I lived in the Bronx for a long time and have ridden enough buses in most of these neighborhoods, there was no valid reason why Country Club didn't want the Bx24 to be changed.

It would have actually eliminated the meandering segments along Country Club Rd and streamlined it down to Locust Point.

If that was the case, they would have left things alone when they rerouted the Bx8 through Country Club back in 2010.

The fact that you don’t remember that scenario clearly states that you don’t know that area like you think you do.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

This has a history to it..... Instead of completely cutting the Bx14, all they had to do was truncate it to Westchester Sq. from the beginning.... Complicating matters for no reason.... What the MTA tried/did with the Bx5 & the Bx8 was pure & utter nonsense.... Their gripe though wasn't the meandering, it was the choice of route (the Bx8, which was actually more direct than the former Bx14/current Bx24 in Country Club) & the amount of service that came with that choice of route, in comparison to the Bx14.... They complained that there were too many buses running in their neighborhood (which I personally think was fake outrage, but whatever)... Basically, anything that isn't/wasn't, or didn't end up being the Bx14 exactly as was, they weren't going to go down quietly on....

When the Bx14 existed, Country Club patrons seldom rode past Westchester Sq. - and that's being generous... The only people really that took Bx14's from Parkchester were people that didn't want to (or couldn't) walk over to those condo's/apartments in Parkchester - hence the creation of that Bx4a that took over the old Bx14 route b/w Parkchester subway & Westchester Sq..... Between said apt's in Parkchester & Westchester Sq., the Bx14 carried a lot of air...

But yeah, while the "leave as is" (no matter the circumstance) crowd definitely exists, that doesn't mean any form of opposition is unfounded or invalid.... That crap they pulled with the Bx5/Bx8 in that general region of the Bronx was nothing more than overplaying their hand (so to speak), being f***ing cheap....

inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders? wtf?

What you really trying to convey here is "Why are you going to inconvenience other peak riders just for schoolkids?"

Then you should know better to inquire or suggest serving Co-op with one bus route.

You are conflating transit enthusiast & foamer here.... I don't get the sense he was trying to call you the latter....

Oh I'm aware. I know the guy that has been involved. He's been living there for over 50 years and he has a lot of pull. He lives in the Spencer Estates area and they like it quiet there. I mean it is entirely residential, so why have buses running through there that frequently if they aren't needed. You've got the kids that need the Bx24 for that Catholic school and those that opt to take the bus to the subway or need to run errands or whatever, but people don't move to Country Club for the public transportation. lol You need a car to get around, as it is pretty remote and suburban. Some blocks don't even have sidewalks.