Bronx Redesign Draft Released

[Lex]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If we're being completely honest, the redesign would never fix everything. Jessica Cignarella was the lead person on the Bronx Redesign and she noted to me in a meeting that 70% of the routes would remain as is and 30% would have changes, and that was before they had any real feedback, so obviously their vision for the Bronx was to make some tweaks, not start from scratch like they supposedly want to do with Queens. One thing that has come up a lot either from events I've attended or articles I have read is how difficult it is to travel "crosstown" because of the topography and how the streets are laid out, so even if you severed the Lehman College and Bronx High School connections as @Lex wants, there is still some meandering.

Lehman College wouldn't lose the Bx28. (Bronx HS would, but that's why I'm stressing the Bx10 and Concourse buses.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Lex said:

Lehman College wouldn't lose the Bx28. (Bronx HS would, but that's why I'm stressing the Bx10 and Concourse buses.)

Doesn't matter at this point. This is the plan they are voting on. Now they have said that they are open to tweaks if need be, but it seems that this will be it.

[Lawrence St]

I'm sorry, but all these communities who don't want routing change screw up the redesign for everyone else.

At this point, is only 20% of the original draft plan being implemented? That's ridiculous.

[BrooklynBus]

Buford's Revision plan a not making only a few tweaks. Guess once he left, someone was too lazy to do a real redesign. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry, but all these communities who don't want routing change screw up the redesign for everyone else.

At this point, is only 20% of the original draft plan being implemented? That's ridiculous.

So you're saying you want the Bx23 the only route to serve all 5 sections of Co-op, no Bx25, and all Q50s end at PBP. Because that's where most of the changes came from.

It makes sense to keep the Bx34 how it is bc of seniors, Bx28 is 50/50 bc the purpose of the Norwood reroute was to partially replace the Bx34. Bx10 never went through a route change simply bc most of the ridership comes from Riverside, BPB and Montefiore Hospital. Don't say I don't know how that route goes bc I use that route occasionally and the route it has rn makes the most sense even if it doesn't provide faster service.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

13 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Bx10 never went through a route change simply bc most of the ridership comes from Riverside, BPB and Montefiore Hospital. Don't say I don't know how that route goes bc I use that route occasionally and the route it has rn makes the most sense even if it doesn't provide faster service.

 

There was a proposal many years ago to combine the Bx10 with either Bx30 or Bx28 to form a Riverdale-to-Co-op-City crosstown. 

[NBTA]

Just now, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

There was a proposal many years ago to combine the Bx10 with either Bx30 or Bx28 to form a Riverdale-to-Co-op-City crosstown. 

And I can bet that the routing was opposed. Where would this route go along, I don’t know.

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

There was a proposal many years ago to combine the Bx10 with either Bx30 or Bx28 to form a Riverdale-to-Co-op-City crosstown. 

There were codebreaks for it in the early 90's so I know of that proposal. The reason why the combination never occurred is because of the fact that the Bx10 and Bx28/30 are based off if two different high ridership areas on two different sides of the Bronx. Combining theses two routes would make the route a lot more unreliable especially if there is a need for 231st Bx10 shortturns right now. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

25 minutes ago, NBTA said:

And I can bet that the routing was opposed. Where would this route go along, I don’t know.

 

Follow Bx28 or Bx30 along Gun Hill, then Bainbridge, Van Cortlandt East, Jerome, Bedford Park, Goulden, Sedgwick, then follow Bx10 to Riverdale.

[paulrivera]

41 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

There was a proposal many years ago to combine the Bx10 with either Bx30 or Bx28 to form a Riverdale-to-Co-op-City crosstown. 

Lol, The Bx10 has reliability issues just from Riverdale to Norwood. Riverdale to Co-op would be way too long for what the 10 does already.

 

58 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Buford's Revision plan a not making only a few tweaks. Guess once he left, someone was too lazy to do a real redesign. 

We should be careful what we wish for. The Queens proposal looks like a whole cluster——. Imagine if the Bronx redesign was that extreme….

Edited November 5, 2021 by paulrivera

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

So you're saying you want the Bx23 the only route to serve all 5 sections of Co-op, no Bx25, and all Q50s end at PBP. Because that's where most of the changes came from.

It makes sense to keep the Bx34 how it is bc of seniors, Bx28 is 50/50 bc the purpose of the Norwood reroute was to partially replace the Bx34. Bx10 never went through a route change simply bc most of the ridership comes from Riverside, BPB and Montefiore Hospital. Don't say I don't know how that route goes bc I use that route occasionally and the route it has rn makes the most sense even if it doesn't provide faster service.

Yes. Why does Co-op city need to have 3 bus lines serving it?

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes. Why does Co-op city need to have 3 bus lines serving it?

The way Co-op City is designed it needs multiple bus lines servicing the area. Especially for the seniors. 

[Future ENY OP]

40 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Lol, The Bx10 has reliability issues just from Riverdale to Norwood. Riverdale to Co-op would be way too long for what the 10 does already.

 

We should be careful what we wish for. The Queens proposal looks like a whole cluster——. Imagine if the Bronx redesign was that extreme….

I agree.  Accept the changes with a grain of salt and call it a day. 

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, Future ENY OP said:

The way Co-op City is designed it needs multiple bus lines servicing the area. Especially for the seniors. 

Does it need multiple bus lines or just increased frequency? There's no point in having the Q50 go there, that was the entire point of splitting the QBx1 in the first place.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry, but all these communities who don't want routing change screw up the redesign for everyone else.

At this point, is only 20% of the original draft plan being implemented? That's ridiculous.

The purpose of the redesign is for the routes to work for the people that use the service... Some routes will actually be faster given that so many stops are being removed. I believe they are still removing some 400 bus stops in this plan.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Lol, The Bx10 has reliability issues just from Riverdale to Norwood. Riverdale to Co-op would be way too long for what the 10 does already.

 

We should be careful what we wish for. The Queens proposal looks like a whole cluster——. Imagine if the Bronx redesign was that extreme….

Doesn’t mean it is not possible to design competent plan that helps more than it hurts. Or is the MTA not capable of that?

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry, but all these communities who don't want routing change screw up the redesign for everyone else.

At this point, is only 20% of the original draft plan being implemented? That's ridiculous.

If a community is opposed to a change, the MTA should develop alternatives to accomplish the same purpose, not just say, okay we will just leave the route as is. 

[Lawrence St]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

Doesn’t mean it is not possible to design competent plan that helps more than it hurts. Or is the MTA not capable of that?

If a community is opposed to a change, the MTA should develop alternatives to accomplish the same purpose, not just say, okay we will just leave the route as is. 

Exactly. There was a reason why they changed those routes in the first place.

Just because a community is opposed to change doesn't mean you just don't change the route at all.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Exactly. There was a reason why they changed those routes in the first place.

Just because a community is opposed to change doesn't mean you just don't change the route at all.

I disagree. The Bronx actually had some lines re-designed not that long ago, so there wasn't a need to go crazy with changes.

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Doesn’t mean it is not possible to design competent plan that helps more than it hurts. Or is the MTA not capable of that?

If a community is opposed to a change, the MTA should develop alternatives to accomplish the same purpose, not just say, okay we will just leave the route as is. 

Come on now. You of all people know how things work. The  is trying to improve its image as being more customer focused. There's also another issue here of how much money exists to implement these redesigns. There isn't a unlimited budget. I think a good compromise was reached. The  got hundreds of stops eliminated to help speed up service and the riders got to keep their routes as they want them. Having attended these meetings, people were very clear about what they wanted and why and the  should respect those wishes. After all, who knows better what they need than the people that use the lines?

[NBTA]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Does it need multiple bus lines or just increased frequency? There's no point in having the Q50 go there, that was the entire point of splitting the QBx1 in the first place.

The QBx1 got split up because of simplicity. People were confused on the Flushing bound buses and the Pelham Bay/Co-Op City buses.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Does it need multiple bus lines or just increased frequency? There's no point in having the Q50 go there, that was the entire point of splitting the QBx1 in the first place.

 

2 minutes ago, NBTA said:

The QBx1 got split up because of simplicity. People were confused on the Flushing bound buses and the Pelham Bay/Co-Op City buses.

^^^ Yeah, and on top of that, there's quite a bit of through riding on the Q50 at Pelham Bay. So there is a demand to Co-Op City, it's not useless at all. However, the route could be changed in order to serve the areas with highest ridership. Having the Q50 operate to Dreiser Loop, Asch Loop (via Co-Op City Blvd), then Bartow Avenue and I-95 to/from PBP would not only save money/fuel/etc., but covers most parts which to use the Q50 for service south of Pelham Bay Park (usually into Queens). The current Q50 does too much in Co-Op City unnecessarily, and because of its routing it either carries air or makes no pickups for a good chunk of its route.  

[Lex]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Does it need multiple bus lines or just increased frequency? There's no point in having the Q50 go there, that was the entire point of splitting the QBx1 in the first place.

On its current route, I agree. In general? I'm not so inclined to believe it. Hell, I'd push even harder for changing the Q50's route up there precisely because of the loss of the Bx29.

The point of the split was to not have two wildly different service types (an interborough route and a neighborhood loop route) share one designation, especially since the dedicated loop route never served Queens.

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

...,Why does Co-op city need to have 3 bus lines serving it?

As opposed to how many? One?

(and don't claim two, because you later questioned if it needs multiple bus lines)

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Does it need multiple bus lines or just increased frequency? There's no point in having the Q50 go there, that was the entire point of splitting the QBx1 in the first place.

Simply put, the QBx1 had too many service patterns.... The creation of the Bx23 quelled that.... The splitting up of the QBx1 had squat to do with running to Co-Op City being pointless... If that were the case, they'd have easily opted to terminate the Q50 at Pelham Bay....

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

...Yeah, and on top of that, there's quite a bit of through riding on the Q50 at Pelham Bay. So there is a demand to Co-Op City, it's not useless at all. However, the route could be changed in order to serve the areas with highest ridership. Having the Q50 operate to Dreiser Loop, Asch Loop (via Co-Op City Blvd), then Bartow Avenue and I-95 to/from PBP would not only save money/fuel/etc., but covers most parts which to use the Q50 for service south of Pelham Bay Park (usually into Queens). The current Q50 does too much in Co-Op City unnecessarily, and because of its routing it either carries air or makes no pickups for a good chunk of its route.  

Yeah, the western portion of Co-Op City is lower in usage in general on all the Co-op routes.... I often find myself saying to myself that it's an immense waste of time when taking the full route (from section 5).... Speaking of which, I would also/specifically extract section 5 from the route; the intra-borough routes can hold down section 5....

Whilst in Co-Op:

• Towards Co-op, the thing tends to significantly empty out at the stop along the PC Richards.... The older folks tend to disembark at the Aldrich stop more (appears as if it's used as to not have to cross Bartow, which makes sense if that's the case)....
• Towards Flushing, the two biggest pickup stops (from what I've notice anyway) is Bartow/Co-Op City blvd. (obviously) & the Peartree stop.... Too bad buses can't run inside Carver, or else I'd end the thing inside it, over Dreiser...

28 minutes ago, Lex said:

....The point of the split was to not have two wildly different service types (an interborough route and a neighborhood loop route) share one designation, especially since the dedicated loop route never served Queens.

Exactly... Too many service patterns.

[Lawrence St]

31 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

As opposed to how many? One?

(and don't claim two, because you later questioned if it needs multiple bus lines)

Simply put, the QBx1 had too many service patterns.... The creation of the Bx23 quelled that.... The splitting up of the QBx1 had squat to do with running to Co-Op City being pointless... If that were the case, they'd have easily opted to terminate the Q50 at Pelham Bay....

Yeah, the western portion of Co-Op City is lower in usage in general on all the Co-op routes.... I often find myself saying to myself that it's an immense waste of time when taking the full route (from section 5).... Speaking of which, I would also/specifically extract section 5 from the route; the intra-borough routes can hold down section 5....

Whilst in Co-Op:

• Towards Co-op, the thing tends to significantly empty out at the stop along the PC Richards.... The older folks tend to disembark at the Aldrich stop more (appears as if it's used as to not have to cross Bartow, which makes sense if that's the case)....
• Towards Flushing, the two biggest pickup stops (from what I've notice anyway) is Bartow/Co-Op City blvd. (obviously) & the Peartree stop.... Too bad buses can't run inside Carver, or else I'd end the thing inside it, over Dreiser...

Exactly... Too many service patterns.

Yes. Look at what LA Metro does, they have one continuous loop line with increased frequency to connect riders with other routes. 

If Co-Op needs more then the Bx23 then reroute the Bx29 to serve all loops except 5.

[Mpn4179]

59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes. Look at what LA Metro does, they have one continuous loop line with increased frequency to connect riders with other routes. 

If Co-Op needs more then the Bx23 then reroute the Bx29 to serve all loops except 5.

The same scenario was proposed in the Draft plan, but the community strongly opposed that plan so this is the alternative.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes. Look at what LA Metro does, they have one continuous loop line with increased frequency to connect riders with other routes. 

If Co-Op needs more then the Bx23 then reroute the Bx29 to serve all loops except 5.

What makes the Bx23 the gold standard for the transit needs of the lion's share of Co-Op City patrons?

Apparently getting to/from Co-Op City in an easterly-westerly fashion isn't a priority, according to this nonsense you're blurting out here.....