Bronx Redesign Draft Released

[NBTA]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Bx20 runs to serve Spuyten Duyvil and people that live further away from the Bx7 that want access to the  train. Clearly, you're not familiar with the geography here in Riverdale. There would be no point in having the Bx10 run Riverdale Av when the Bx7 is there.

The busway on Broadway was proposed already and rejected by my Community Board, as storeowners raised objections about lost parking and subsequent lost business, so that's that.

What would be the point of extending the Bx2 when the Bx1 already ends at 231st and Riverdale Av?

I take the Bx7/10/20 in that area a lot. I lived in the area for 20 years, taking those 3 bus lines (I live in front of the 10), through those areas for my entire life. I know the geography in the area. It was a question, to recreate the ridership that the Bx20 used to have. 
I did not say to have a busway on Broadway, I said 231st Street. 
While there isn’t that much space at 231 and Riverdale, it’ll still be useful to have double the service to serve the 3-4 schools that are in that area. Plus, the terminal at Kingsbridge Heights barely has space anyway, to the point where half the time, buses have to use the bus stop on both sides, or loop around after terminating on one side, to go right back in service on the other. 
Don’t tell me that I don’t know anything when I’ve been observing ridership on the local side of things, just like how you observe ridership on your high floor “luxury” buses. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

58 minutes ago, NBTA said:

I take the Bx7/10/20 in that area a lot. I lived in the area for 20 years, taking those 3 bus lines (I live in front of the 10), through those areas for my entire life. I know the geography in the area. It was a question, to recreate the ridership that the Bx20 used to have. 
I did not say to have a busway on Broadway, I said 231st Street. 
While there isn’t that much space at 231 and Riverdale, it’ll still be useful to have double the service to serve the 3-4 schools that are in that area. Plus, the terminal at Kingsbridge Heights barely has space anyway, to the point where half the time, buses have to use the bus stop on both sides, or loop around after terminating on one side, to go right back in service on the other. 
Don’t tell me that I don’t know anything when I’ve been observing ridership on the local side of things, just like how you observe ridership on your high floor “luxury” buses. 

So you want a busway on W 231st when the traffic issue is really along Broadway, particularly from W 225th to W 231st? Ok... LOL Busways are usually created when buses have an issue getting through traffic. Since when was W 231st Street such an issue that buses aren't moving there?

If your goal is to serve the 3-4 schools in the area, wouldn't it make more sense to add more school shuttles? For what it's worth, you also have a lot of kids that walk or get driven to those schools by car.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@NBTA @R10 2952 Good luck to the two of you. I won't be commenting on this any further. Board Meeting is today for the approval of the Bronx Local Bus Redesign Proposal. Since I've only been living here over 10 years, about as long as I lived on Staten Island and Brooklyn, I have no idea what I'm talking about. lol

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:19 PM, B35 via Church said:

Why the MTA continues to take Frederick Wells seriously, I honestly don't know (well actually, I do... Lol).... He's parroted that stupid idea on multiple platforms...

I meant to comment on this post about Frederick Wells when I saw this before, but forgot. I just wanted to say that even though we've had our disputes, I respect you because you know your stuff. You get the demographics behind the routes, you USE the routes and understand ridership patterns and look at the routes from the riders' eyes, which is extremely important. We need people with a rational approach, not people out here trying to implement off the wall ideas that don't impact their lives, with a mix of actual ridership experience, data, etc.

That Frederick Wells guy scares me because not only is his ideas off the wall, he has moved to petitioning the  with a lot of this nonsense, which is not what we need with the issues that plague this City right now. He's in the redesign groups on social media and he posts God knows how many proposals of stupid route extensions all over the place. I had to put him on ignore. Years ago, I spoke at a meeting in Sheepshead Bay with BrooklynBus about trying to restore some service on the B4 and BM3. The B4 I grew up using and the BM3 I have been using as a commuter for over 12 years. Well he showed up. Everyone that showed up made valid points about the need for reliable service and service restorations. 

I spoke with BrooklynBus as an advocate. When Frederick Wells got up to speak, we were all looking like this guy is off of his rocker. I cannot recall, but I would imagine he has shown up to some of the Bronx workshops. I believe he has definitely been out in Queens.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I have two things that I want to opine on. First, I am very disappointed with the decision to make the Bx29 a City Island only coverage route. I feel that in today's climate a route like that is only one step away from being a goner. I think that the Bx29 should either be kept as is or extended to Pelham Pkwy/White Plains Road. I like the idea of it serving Pelham Pkwy since it can maintain coverage route headway and still pull in some riders when there are gaps in Bx12 service. Pelham Parkway also has minimal traffic so the route wouldn't suffer delays doing this either. 

Second, based on the ridership patterns I'm observing there is latent demand for service to Bay Plaza from areas like Morris Park and Van Vest to name a few. I think a new route (let's number it Bx37) should be created to tap into some of this demand. It should start at Williamsbridge Road and Morris Park Av and head due south to the Westchester Sq station with that whole segment being non-stop. It should then follow the Bx31 northward to Eastchester Road and Gun Hill Road stopping only at Morris Park Av, Pelham Pkwy, Mace, Allerton and Gun Hill Road. It will then turn onto Gun Hill Road running non-stop to the Mall at Bay Plaza. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:56 PM, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

First, I am very disappointed with the decision to make the Bx29 a City Island only coverage route. I feel that in today's climate a route like that is only one step away from being a goner. I think that the Bx29 should either be kept as is or extended to Pelham Pkwy/White Plains Road. I like the idea of it serving Pelham Pkwy since it can maintain coverage route headway and still pull in some riders when there are gaps in Bx12 service. Pelham Parkway also has minimal traffic so the route wouldn't suffer delays doing this either. 

If you feel that way, then you are unaware of how many workers from the restaurants on City Island that are essential workers depend on the Bx29 to get to and from the island. The route terminating where it will terminate had to do with cost and reliability, nothing more, so that they could provide 24/7 service to the island.

[paulrivera]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:56 PM, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

Pelham Parkway also has minimal traffic so the route wouldn't suffer delays doing this either. 

Actually, the White Plains Road area tends to be a chokepoint during rush hours, so turning those Bx29's back around could be problematic.

Plus, those Bx29's would carry literal air more often than not. As far as the Bx12 goes, the bulk of its ridership comes from Broadway, 10th Avenue, and Jerome/Concourse/Fordham Plaza heading east and Bay Plaza and WPR heading west. The Bx29 as you described doesn't really go where the bulk of the Bx12 riders are going. Any relief for the Bx12 out of WPR should be going west to Broadway, as a relief route going east from WPR would be a waste.

And even if there were any relief routes on the Bx12 corridor, nobody's going to ride it unless it's an SBS anyway. So the answer might actually be adding more short turn SBS trips (keyword more, not taking away from existing service)

[checkmatechamp13]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:56 PM, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

I have two things that I want to opine on. First, I am very disappointed with the decision to make the Bx29 a City Island only coverage route. I feel that in today's climate a route like that is only one step away from being a goner. I think that the Bx29 should either be kept as is or extended to Pelham Pkwy/White Plains Road. I like the idea of it serving Pelham Pkwy since it can maintain coverage route headway and still pull in some riders when there are gaps in Bx12 service. Pelham Parkway also has minimal traffic so the route wouldn't suffer delays doing this either. 

The problem is if the delay is too large it might get overcrowded and then people actually going to City Island would be left behind.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

9 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Actually, the White Plains Road area tends to be a chokepoint during rush hours, so turning those Bx29's back around could be problematic.

Plus, those Bx29's would carry literal air more often than not. As far as the Bx12 goes, the bulk of its ridership comes from Broadway, 10th Avenue, and Jerome/Concourse/Fordham Plaza heading east and Bay Plaza and WPR heading west. The Bx29 as you described doesn't really go where the bulk of the Bx12 riders are going. Any relief for the Bx12 out of WPR should be going west to Broadway, as a relief route going east from WPR would be a waste.

And even if there were any relief routes on the Bx12 corridor, nobody's going to ride it unless it's an SBS anyway. So the answer might actually be adding more short turn SBS trips (keyword more, not taking away from existing service)

I am by no means looking to introduce a Bx12 relief route. I am proposing an extension of the planned Bx29 and just managed to post one scenario under which it would be utilized. There are quite a few people who board buses on Pelham Pkwy for Eastbound service and in the event the Bx12 goes MIA (which does happen a bit) Bx29 becomes the eastbound service for these folks to use. I was mainly looking to add to the route so it can serve more than just City Island alone and Pelham Parkway makes sense to me as a fit. The routes presence along Pelham Parkway would put one seat access to City Island within reach of more commuters which I'm expecting to increase usage to the area and the additional connections to the and would basically put the neighborhood on the grid officially. My goal for the route is for it to have the same ridership levels and headway that it gets serving section 5 of Co-op City and there are enough people that will either bail on MIA Bx12 buses or take a one seat ride to City Island that a Bx29 terminating at WPR would be just as good as it was pre-covid. 

Imagine today for example, you were waiting at Pelham Parkway/Williamsbridge Road for Eastbound bus service. If you were doing that around 1:20 pm, the next Bx12 SBS was going to greet you with 91 passengers on board. I'm imagining if there was a Bx29 bus in the picture it wouldn't be carrying air. There are at least hundreds of people along Pelham Parkway that either find themselves in a Bx12 service gap or see a sardine can SBS as their first bus. Those are the only people that the Bx29 needs to be carrying for the route to be viable. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

15 hours ago, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

I am by no means looking to introduce a Bx12 relief route. I am proposing an extension of the planned Bx29 and just managed to post one scenario under which it would be utilized. There are quite a few people who board buses on Pelham Pkwy for Eastbound service and in the event the Bx12 goes MIA (which does happen a bit) Bx29 becomes the eastbound service for these folks to use. 

 

It sounds like you are looking to do just that though, be it intentional or not.

[checkmatechamp13]

A petition regarding restructuring the Bx10/28/34. Feel free to sign and share:

https://chng.it/pQFxNGwcKC

[Lawrence St]

13 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

A petition regarding restructuring the Bx10/28/34. Feel free to sign and share:

https://chng.it/pQFxNGwcKC

I'm sorry to say, but as long as people don't want things to change, stuff will never get done. This redesign could have been something brand new for the Bronx had people not whined about little inconveniences. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry to say, but as long as people don't want things to change, stuff will never get done. This redesign could have been something brand new for the Bronx had people not whined about little inconveniences. 

Says the guy that is driving to and from... 

[Lawrence St]

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Says the guy that is driving to and from... 

Oh wow, I didn't know you lived my life to know how I commute to and from work!

In anycase, I don't drive 90% of the time after the mess the city has become. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Lawrence St

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Oh wow, I didn't know you lived my life to know how I commute to and from work!

In anycase, I don't drive 90% of the time after the mess the city has become. 

I always find it interesting how the  should run services when you are inconvenienced by any changes they make, but when it comes to other people, it's not a big deal, so you're saying that it's a "minor convenience" for the many people that complained about how their commutes would be negatively impacted, but you don't know how they have to commute to and from work.  My comments about your commute are based on what you have stated previously about how you drive.  

The changes you described are not a "minor inconvenience". They would leave a number of people stuck, as a lot of these people are seniors and suffer from mobility issues, etc.

The one thing I never understand about many of proposals in here is they are often times stated without any discussion about the people that actually depend on these services.  It seems the focus is more on the  than it is on the riders.

[FLX9304]

Make it official. According to the  website, the Bronx Redesign will go into an effect on 6/26/2022. 

[4 via Mosholu]

Will the 125 be dispatched from 100 Street?

[Q43LTD]

No, either Manhattanville, Hale or West Farms. If it still existed, 126

[Lawrence St]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:00 PM, FLX9304 said:

Make it official. According to the  website, the Bronx Redesign will go into an effect on 6/26/2022. 

But the Bx6 change will not go in effect until next year.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

14 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But the Bx6 change will not go in effect until next year.

The reason given is to align the change with the full implementation of OMNY, which is a weird reason to give.

Side note, on the same paragraph the Bx28 and Bx34 routings will not be changed like the final plan originally proposed.

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

The reason given is to align the change with the full implementation of OMNY, which is a weird reason to give.

Side note, on the same paragraph the Bx28 and Bx34 routings will not be changed like the final plan originally proposed.

They kept the Bx38 because of the Bx30’s reroute, but what they do was increase service on the Bx38 during the peak hours. The Bx34 moving to Fordham Rd was a 9 year old move (before the Bx41/Bx41 SBS was implemented in 2013) but was scrapped because of the senior citizens on both Bainbridge and Valentine Aves will lose service. 

[FLX9304]

15 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

No, either Manhattanville, Hale or West Farms. If it still existed, 126

No West Farms. It’s a toss up between MV or OF, damn it might go to Quill since they love taking new routes. 

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

The reason given is to align the change with the full implementation of OMNY, which is a weird reason to give.

Not really. They'd be dedicating space on part of the Bx5's alignment for the machines, only to rip them out soon after (yes, OMNY exists, but as long as we still have MetroCard holders, the ticket machines will be needed in order to avoid long lines at the front dragging service).

[MysteriousBtrain]

18 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

Will the 125 be dispatched from 100 Street?

 

16 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

No, either Manhattanville, Hale or West Farms. If it still existed, 126

 

54 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

No West Farms. It’s a toss up between MV or OF, damn it might go to Quill since they love taking new routes. 

The last official plan was to put the Bx35 in KB to put the M125 in WF. It's not impossible bc there are plenty of put-ins on the Bx19 at 3 Av. And if you wanna go further, the Bx21/32 to/from 138 St as well.

[Mpn4179]

47 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

No West Farms. It’s a toss up between MV or OF, damn it might go to Quill since they love taking new routes. 

The M125 will most likely go to KB or WF.

Quill will not get it because all of their artic routes are SBS.

Hale (OF) will not get it because the depot has a limit to how many buses can be stored at the depot. If it was lifted, OF would take the M60 SBS before they take the M125, seeing that they only run SBS artics and the M125 is a local route. (Don’t even mention the M35, it’s not even worth it.)

MV will not get it because they don’t accept artic buses. You’re assuming that the M125 will be a standard route when it will be an artic route; remember, this route is replacing the Bx15 and M100 routes on 125th Street.

It would be logical to send the M125 to TU (100 St), but for that to happen TU would have to send the M31 to MV seeing that TU is replacing their Orion Hybrids with Nova Hybrids and MV is the only other Manhattan Division depot that is taking Nova Hybrids. I don’t see that move happening anytime soon. That, and the M125 will be based out of the Bronx Division so it’s either KB or WF.