Bronx Redesign Draft Released

[Lawrence St]

17 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I still can't get over the question; inconvenience everyone else just for peak riders..... As if public transit doesn't exist for the masses, as if peak riders don't constitute said masses (even though off peak usage has & continues to increase, esp. since the past decade or so).... Now we're gonna sit up here & try to lessen the importance of peak patronage....

Anyway, everytime I see that frequency vs. coverage BS, I get miffed.... Like, why do riders have to be pigeonholed to appease your frugality as a transit provider.....

Let me rephrase what I meant, there's no reason why they aren't going to change a route just because school kids use it, that's exactly why school trippers exist. 

 

15 minutes ago, Mpn4179 said:

If that was the case, they would have left things alone when they rerouted the Bx8 through Country Club back in 2010.

The fact that you don’t remember that scenario clearly states that you don’t know that area like you think you do.

I do remember that and while the  did the Bx8 reroute wrong, they were in the right mindset. I'm all for combining routes to reduce redundancy but that was a horrible idea from the start. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I will say that if a community doesn't want bus service meandering about their neighborhood, why should the  try to force something that Country Club doesn't want? Some of the streets that bus takes are tight to begin with. I know the individuals that were responsible for pushing back on the local bus changes there and I applaud them. The community has spoken numerous times and they live there, pay taxes there, etc. There is bus service where it is needed for those that need it.

 

The last time tinkered with Co-op City, the residents wanted every route to meander everywhere. They were especially offended by the thought of Section 5 riders having a direct exit route to the west instead of having to take the Grand Tour of Sections 1 thru 4. 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That makes it even worse then because that shows that you are out of touch. A large segment of the population in Co-Op City consists of seniors that don't have cars, so they need bus service, and given how Co-Op City is laid out into sections, you should know why they have several bus lines there serving thousands of people. 

My aunt lived in Coop city when I was a kid before we had a car. She was in Section 5. I don't remember why we didn't use Queens Transit to the Pelham line. Maybe there was no Saturday service. But we took the bus to Gun Hill and White Plains Road. I always thought it was ridiculous for it to take 45 minutes just to get out of Coop City as we explored every nook and cranny of Coop City as if we've were on a siteseeing bus. Glad they fixed that and it looks like the proposal also has more direct service to Allerton Ave. Don't see how they could have fewer routes with all the people living there.

[BrooklynBus]

8 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The last time tinkered with Co-op City, the residents wanted every route to meander everywhere. They were especially offended by the thought of Section 5 riders having a direct exit route to the west instead of having to take the Grand Tour of Sections 1 thru 4. 

I have difficulty believing that. It makes no sense. Maybe Section 5 wasn't represented adequately because they couldn't possibly want that. They don't spend their whole life in Coop City and need to get out some time. As long as there is a way to get to all the sections on one bus, they shouldn't object to a fairly direct route out of a Coop City.

Edited November 6, 2021 by BrooklynBus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The last time tinkered with Co-op City, the residents wanted every route to meander everywhere. They were especially offended by the thought of Section 5 riders having a direct exit route to the west instead of having to take the Grand Tour of Sections 1 thru 4. 

And there's a reason for that. Years ago when Co-Op City was created, it was done with the promise that residents that committed to moving there would have good public transportation. There is a sense from the residents that I know that they don't want the  to push them over and take advantage, especially given how many residents don't have cars and are elderly and would be shut out from getting around without adequate bus service. They were also promised that the subway would be extended there years ago, which has never come to fruition, so this is their sand in the line so to speak. It is a bit overdone, but I get it. It's a neighborhood of over 60,000 residents and they are acutely aware of the fact that their neighborhood is a subway desert and is far less attractive if bus service is cut there. With the  historically speaking, once they start cutting, they don't stop.

We have a similar stance here in Riverdale in that we are not going to allow them to just come in here and cut our service, ao there is a fight for everything.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

27 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh I'm aware. I know the guy that has been involved. He's been living there for over 50 years and he has a lot of pull. He lives in the Spencer Estates area and they like it quiet there. I mean it is entirely residential, so why have buses running through there that frequently if they aren't needed. You've got the kids that need the Bx24 for that Catholic school and those that opt to take the bus to the subway or need to run errands or whatever, but people don't move to Country Club for the public transportation. lol You need a car to get around, as it is pretty remote and suburban. Some blocks don't even have sidewalks.

Apparently that was the MTA's thought process when they cut the Bx14....

25 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Let me rephrase what I meant, there's no reason why they aren't going to change a route just because school kids use it, that's exactly why school trippers exist.

Cool, but that's not his argument....

@MysteriousBtrain is more or less expressing the concept of inconvenience, not this bit about schoolkids being a reason as to why a route won't be changed.... You're putting words in his mouth by spinning it like that.... We on these forums (of all people) should realize that the MTA does what they do with these routes with their own ulterior motives in mind....

5 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I have difficulty believing that. It makes no sense. Maybe Section 5 wasn't represented adequately because they couldn't possibly want that.....

He's going overboard with the point, but he's not entirely wrong... There's quite a bit of intra Co-Op City riding going on.

[Mpn4179]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Let me rephrase what I meant, there's no reason why they aren't going to change a route just because school kids use it, that's exactly why school trippers exist. 

 

I do remember that and while the  did the Bx8 reroute wrong, they were in the right mindset. I'm all for combining routes to reduce redundancy but that was a horrible idea from the start. 

That we can both agree on.

But, I’m curious; help me understand why would you want to have that “proposed” Bx24 routing that was in the Draft plan.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Mpn4179 said:

That we can both agree on.

But, I’m curious; help me understand why would you want to have that “proposed” Bx24 routing that was in the Draft plan.

It would have streamlined service in Country Club and reduced the need for the Bx8 to make that un-needed tour of Country Club.

Heck, wasn't it just mentioned that Country Club dosent want a lot of buses in the neighborhood? That's exactly what they were trying to do, but as usual Country Club loves to complain about everything.

[Mpn4179]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

It would have streamlined service in Country Club and reduced the need for the Bx8 to make that un-needed tour of Country Club.

Heck, wasn't it just mentioned that Country Club dosent want a lot of buses in the neighborhood? That's exactly what they were trying to do, but as usual Country Club loves to complain about everything.

And what about the riders in Edgewater Park and Locust Point. How would that route affect them?

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

It would have streamlined service in Country Club and reduced the need for the Bx8 to make that un-needed tour of Country Club.

Heck, wasn't it just mentioned that Country Club dosent want a lot of buses in the neighborhood? That's exactly what they were trying to do, but as usual Country Club loves to complain about everything.

So those in the more eastern part of Throgs neck (namely Locust Point & Edgewater Park) need to go on a tour of Country Club to get to Pelham Bay Park of the ?

Their complaint of not wanting a lot of buses in the neighborhood had to do with the frequency of service (on that late 2010 rendition of the Bx8), not the course of the route the old Bx14 took/current Bx24 takes....

[Gotham Bus Co.]

7 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I have difficulty believing that. It makes no sense. Maybe Section 5 wasn't represented adequately because they couldn't possibly want that. They don't spend their whole life in Coop City and need to get out some time. As long as there is a way to get to all the sections on one bus, they shouldn't object to a fairly direct route out of a Coop City.

 

Obviously, somebody felt that a "Section 5 shortcut" route would not serve the other sections and thus would reflect a reduction of service to the other sections.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:21 AM, BrooklynBus said:

If more than one option was proposed and both were rejected, then leaving a route unchanged would be the correct choice. 

That assumes that the multiple options presented are all reasonable options (it's likely that with multiple options, one may be reasonable, but remember who we're dealing with here...)

[paulrivera]

On 11/6/2021 at 6:51 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Obviously, somebody felt that a "Section 5 shortcut" route would not serve the other sections and thus would reflect a reduction of service to the other sections.

I guess that explains why the Bx29's on its way out of there...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I guess that explains why the Bx29's on its way out of there...

That Bx29 move is more cost neutral. By shortening it to Pelham Bay, they're claiming it'll make the route more reliable, but they can also provide service 24/7 to City Island since many people in the restaurants work late.

[Lawrence St]

What I'm highly disappointed about is the fact they didn't do ANYTHING with the Bx9 or Bx19, but will split the Bx15 because they think "it's to long".

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

What I'm highly disappointed about is the fact they didn't do ANYTHING with the Bx9 or Bx19, but will split the Bx15 because they think "it's to long".

The Bx9 isn't long at all. The issue is Broadway and there was a proposal to speed up the area that was congested, but it was rejected by my Community Board, so there's that. With no traffic, the trip end to end is about 40 minutes.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NBTA]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

What I'm highly disappointed about is the fact they didn't do ANYTHING with the Bx9 or Bx19, but will split the Bx15 because they think "it's to long".

The Bx9 isn’t long, I’m an advocate for SBS for the line, but knowing the MTA, it’ll start at 225th Street instead of 242nd or 262nd Street.

I don’t think the 19 is too long, but I do think the 19 can head to Lehman College, but that’s a pipe dream.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

40 minutes ago, NBTA said:

The Bx9 isn’t long, I’m an advocate for SBS for the line, but knowing the MTA, it’ll start at 225th Street instead of 242nd or 262nd Street.

I don’t think the 19 is too long, but I do think the 19 can head to Lehman College, but that’s a pipe dream.

If the SBS were to be implemented, I'm pretty sure the route would of been routed over to Bailey or be faced with the same problems the current Bx9 faces with traffic under the Broadway EL. Traffic got worse along Broadway when traffic lights were placed at 237th, near the shopping complex (Even if I do know and understand why the lights were placed there). In bad days, cars going to BJ's and those waiting for the Wendy's drive-thru tend to clog traffic in the area.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

What I'm highly disappointed about is the fact they didn't do ANYTHING with the Bx9 or Bx19, but will split the Bx15 because they think "it's to long".

I definitely would have split the Bx19...

• North-South route (Bx19) between Botanical Garden and Hunts Point (absorbs Bx46)
• East-West route (Bx49) between Riverbank Park and Southern Blvd & West Farms Rd

[NBTA]

3 hours ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

If the SBS were to be implemented, I'm pretty sure the route would of been routed over to Bailey or be faced with the same problems the current Bx9 faces with traffic under the Broadway EL. Traffic got worse along Broadway when traffic lights were placed at 237th, near the shopping complex (Even if I do know and understand why the lights were placed there). In bad days, cars going to BJ's and those waiting for the Wendy's drive-thru tend to clog traffic in the area.

Bailey is a Highway compared to Broadway, so I’d see that happening too. 

[Lawrence St]

12 hours ago, NBTA said:

Bailey is a Highway compared to Broadway, so I’d see that happening too. 

But then you'd get complaints that the SBS dosent stop along major transfer points.

What they should do (and quite frankly this is the only time I'd propose such a thing) is remove the parking along Broadway between 7 AM-7 PM and install bus lanes. There's no point in having parking there if most of Broadway has parking lots for restaurants.

[NBTA]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

But then you'd get complaints that the SBS dosent stop along major transfer points.

What they should do (and quite frankly this is the only time I'd propose such a thing) is remove the parking along Broadway between 7 AM-7 PM and install bus lanes. There's no point in having parking there if most of Broadway has parking lots for restaurants.

There’s a whole bunch of residence around the area of Broadway, which is why most of the the parking resides there. Removing parking would only cause dividends for the area as well, but as the MTA says, “Get out your car and get in the bus”. 
 

231st and 238th would still be transfer points, it’s just a block difference, the only transfer that would be lost is the Metro North transfer at 225th, and even then, I believe that’s rarely used. 

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

But then you'd get complaints that the SBS dosent stop along major transfer points.

What they should do (and quite frankly this is the only time I'd propose such a thing) is remove the parking along Broadway between 7 AM-7 PM and install bus lanes. There's no point in having parking there if most of Broadway has parking lots for restaurants.

It won’t do any good because the side roads were removed at the bus stops at 231st and 238th, so you’ll still see the Bx9 be slowed down by traffic in those choke points just like now. The roads on the side are narrow as well and there are some parts closed for the restaurants offering outdoor dining. There’s also the issue of the police precinct using the street for parking their patrol cars or storing cars that suffered accidents. I could go on with why taking Broadway parking would not be feasible.

[Future ENY OP]

 

[4 via Mosholu]

51 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

 

I was featured in the webinar and I told them within two minutes what i thought needed to happen to the 16 when it came to two bus stop consolidations and a stop relocation. I wanted to add more, but I somehow blacked out.