Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Future ENY OP]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

B10/B12: The B12 looks to be left alone - however, that proposed B10 is basically a B12 that runs to Prospect Park via Empire... I mean. great, it fills a gap, but I don't see this catching on to the tune some may think it will.... I sincerely hope that the plan isn't to take away service from the B12 to give to that B10, b/c it'd be BS if it were to AFAIC - LTD service or not.....

I finally got a chance to study this Brooklyn re-design plan and something strikes me with this B10/B12 plan. First off why the split? The B12 does very well and doesn't need a split in my own opinion. Although, direct Empire Blvd bus service is being addressed. However, it shouldn't be on the B12's expense. This B10 should run to City line- Grant/Sheridan. and give Liberty Avenue back it's rightful bus service. There should be no reason that portion of East New York/Cypress Hills doesn't have bus service and that needs addressing. The Q24 is simply not enough.

 

On 12/2/2022 at 1:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

B38: Not surprising that they're proposing canning the Met. av branch... With that said, there is no way you're having every single B38 trip under those headways terminating around Seneca/Cornelia <> Seneca/Catalpa.... Something will have to give.

No surprise that Metro/Grandview service is being cut. That's always been in the plans for the MTA for quite a while. Even when the service was exclusive to Fresh Pond Depot you saw less metro/grandview buses than you saw more Seneca/Cornelia and Seneca and Catalpa. This here is a lost opportunity to have a crosstown SBS run down Dekalb via Metro/Grandview.

On 12/2/2022 at 1:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

B40: I'm not convinced this route actually has anything to do with being some sort of an improvement to rush hour service...

B41XT: Nice gesture I suppose, but I'd say It's way too late for something like this.... The damage has been done with the B41 (in general)... Something like this should've been done before the PBL takeover, let alone before major improvements were done to the B103 (that made it as popular as it is today) not too long after the takeover.... Back when the B41 was far more popular than it is today... Proposing scaling the B103 back to the Junction won't make something like this more attractive than the current B103 to/from Downtown Brooklyn (if that's supposed to be the idea with this)...

=========================

This here, I'm a bit confused and conflicted on how this gonna work.  Good luck trying to convince Community board 18 with this proposal.  (Especially for Bergen Beach patrons that live along the 41)

I'll go thru more later.  However, these are the first 3 that really interested me.

[Q43LTD]

Maybe I should do a list of missed opportunities with this redesign 

[Sam855]

4 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Maybe I should do a list of missed opportunities with this redesign 

The B71 for sure, I mean if anything it deserved to be at least in the draft

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So far folks in Marine Park have not been pleased to learn that the B2 is being proposed to be eliminated.  Assuming they are vocal enough, they may bring it back.

[MysteriousBtrain]

9 hours ago, Sam855 said:

The B71 for sure, I mean if anything it deserved to be at least in the draft

I personally feel like they could reroute the B61 to cover the B71 to Grand Army Plaza. The B81 duplicates half the B61 as is (Red Hook to Prospect Park).

[Brillant93]

The B2 needs to be used as a rush hour route while the B100 should be the full time route still on Quentin Rd because Madison high school is right there. I'm not sure why they want to move it. I could see the B100 going straight through Quentin to the station to avoid congestion on kings hwy. Better yet I could also see a route going from kings hwy sta to far rockaway. 

[P3F]

Keep the B2, 31, and 100 the same (routings) as today west of Gerritsen, and send the B2 via Fillmore to Flatbush Av and then Kings Plaza.

That keeps the stop on the 100 at Madison HS, and consolidates Marine Park service without cutting half of it.

Edited December 9, 2022 by P3F

[Future ENY OP]

4 hours ago, P3F said:

Keep the B2, 31, and 100 the same (routings) as today west of Gerritsen, and send the B2 via Fillmore to Flatbush Av and then Kings Plaza.

That keeps the stop on the 100 at Madison HS, and consolidates Marine Park service without cutting half of it.

Community Board 18 is pretty vocal.  They will go against any proposal that eliminates the B2 and B31 getting clipped.  Sending the 2 to Fillmore makes the most logical sense. If Avenue S doesn’t want service or it’s a hassle to deal with the turns down S just move to Fillmore for feasible service. 

[Theli11]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:05 PM, Future ENY OP said:

I finally got a chance to study this Brooklyn re-design plan and something strikes me with this B10/B12 plan. First off why the split? The B12 does very well and doesn't need a split in my own opinion. Although, direct Empire Blvd bus service is being addressed. However, it shouldn't be on the B12's expense. This B10 should run to City line- Grant/Sheridan. and give Liberty Avenue back it's rightful bus service. There should be no reason that portion of East New York/Cypress Hills doesn't have bus service and that needs addressing. The Q24 is simply not enough.

When I went to school in that area it was always a hastle trying to get to Broadway Junction when the  and people were piling on the  was down (specifically when the train started smoking (I don't know the mechanic stuff) and everyone was getting on the Q24 or the , but it's harder to get to Southern Brooklyn. The old B12 service would've served the area nicely but that was cut out during the 2010 budget cuts. If you wanted to get to... Gateway Mall or Coney Island or even the Bay Ridge area you'd have to take the   into Manhattan for the , the to the  at Jay St or get out at Hoyt/Fulton and walk to DeKalb or Atlantic Avenue. The issue is partically solved because a Q8 can just take you to the train at New Lots Ave but there's no direct routes to South Brooklyn that I know of. This would solve that. 

[Future ENY OP]

16 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

When I went to school in that area it was always a hastle trying to get to Broadway Junction when the  and people were piling on the  was down (specifically when the train started smoking (I don't know the mechanic stuff) and everyone was getting on the Q24 or the , but it's harder to get to Southern Brooklyn. The old B12 service would've served the area nicely but that was cut out during the 2010 budget cuts. If you wanted to get to... Gateway Mall or Coney Island or even the Bay Ridge area you'd have to take the   into Manhattan for the , the to the  at Jay St or get out at Hoyt/Fulton and walk to DeKalb or Atlantic Avenue. The issue is partically solved because a Q8 can just take you to the train at New Lots Ave but there's no direct routes to South Brooklyn that I know of. This would solve that. 

Gateway Mall is via the B13 & Q8...

Last sentence: B6 at New Lots train station goes into South Brooklyn..

[Theli11]

2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Gateway Mall is via the B13 & Q8...

Last sentence: B6 at New Lots train station goes into South Brooklyn..

I mixed up Gateway and Kings Plaza* 

You're right I lapsed about the B6. 

[Brillant93]

I would like to add that the B15 needs to be kept going to JFK. Queens have multiple routes going to LGA and JFK so why not Brooklyn? Having the B55 being the only route to JFK would be a huge taking. But also what about the workers who live in upper parts of the borough? Have both the B15 and the B55 to JFK.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

I would like to add that the B15 needs to be kept going to JFK. Queens have multiple routes going to LGA and JFK so why not Brooklyn? Having the B55 being the only route to JFK would be a huge taking. But also what about the workers who live in upper parts of the borough? Have both the B15 and the B55 to JFK.

The B15 does too much work for its own good. Too much delays and there's not much demand for Brooklyn-JFK riders outside ENY and riders to the . At least the B55 has service to Mid-Brooklyn, an area that struggles with easy access to subway service; the B15 has nearby subway alternatives.

[Lex]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

The B15 does too much work for its own good. Too much delays and there's not much demand for Brooklyn-JFK riders outside ENY and riders to the . At least the B55 has service to Mid-Brooklyn, an area that struggles with easy access to subway service; the B15 has nearby subway alternatives.

Sure, but now you're switching the burden to the chronically-congested Church Avenue.

The fact that it's a bus route (in mixed traffic, no less) is my problem with the proposed B55, not that they're proposing a link between that part of Brooklyn and JFK Airport at all.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Sure, but now you're switching the burden to the chronically-congested Church Avenue.

The fact that it's a bus route (in mixed traffic, no less) is my problem with the proposed B55, not that they're proposing a link between that part of Brooklyn and JFK Airport at all.

A bus route will sit in traffic no matter what unless you build a Busway, and the infrastructure in NYC has almost no way to build a Busway anywhere. 

The B15 to JFK was already bipolar enough as is as often I would see 3 spring Creek buses before a JFK Bound bus in a span of 20-30 min.

[Q43LTD]

List of missed opportunities in this redesign:

So we see the B75 partially revived in the form of a proposed B27 from Vinegar Hill (Downtown Brooklyn) to Red Hook, but not straightening the B16 on Ft Hamilton Pkwy.

Considering the B47 would not use Clarkson, I would have sent the B16 to cover that portion

A 16 Av route going from Church Av  to Caesars Bay. I suppose the  would say it's too close the 

The B10 could have went to the old B12 terminal in Cypress Hills. Similar to the B5/6 combo. Especially when the  goes express between Broadway Junction and Euclid.

A 65 St route from Sunset Park to Kings Plaza

Possibly splitting the B47 up and reviving the old B78 to a degree

 

 

[Lex]

3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

A bus route will sit in traffic no matter what unless you build a Busway, and the infrastructure in NYC has almost no way to build a Busway anywhere. 

The B15 to JFK was already bipolar enough as is as often I would see 3 spring Creek buses before a JFK Bound bus in a span of 20-30 min.

Sure, but even then, a bus route doing what that proposed B55 is doing has no business being anything more than a stopgap while work is done on higher-order transit (say, finally doing something more with that AirTrain to Howard Beach).

[BrooklynBus]

8 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

A bus route will sit in traffic no matter what unless you build a Busway, and the infrastructure in NYC has almost no way to build a Busway anywhere. 

The B15 to JFK was already bipolar enough as is as often I would see 3 spring Creek buses before a JFK Bound bus in a span of 20-30 min.

A bus route to JFK could use the shoulder of the Belt Parkway which mostly exists east of Knapp Street. The road could easily be improved to fill the small gaps where it doesn’t exist. Elsewhere it could use the service road, except going west,  west of Ocean Pky.

[Future ENY OP]

12 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

List of missed opportunities in this redesign:

So we see the B75 partially revived in the form of a proposed B27 from Vinegar Hill (Downtown Brooklyn) to Red Hook, but not straightening the B16 on Ft Hamilton Pkwy.

Considering the B47 would not use Clarkson, I would have sent the B16 to cover that portion

A 16 Av route going from Church Av  to Caesars Bay. I suppose the  would say it's too close the  (See #3)

The B10 could have went to the old B12 terminal in Cypress Hills. Similar to the B5/6 combo. Especially when the  goes express between Broadway Junction and Euclid. (See #1)

A 65 St route from Sunset Park to Kings Plaza (See #2)

Possibly splitting the B47 up and reviving the old B78 to a degree (See #4)

 

 

I keep saying this.. Cityline- Liberty Avenue needs bus service again. The Q24/B13/Q7/Q8 combos won't work for this area. The B10 will address the Liberty/Grant/Sheridan Avenue issues.

An improved B2 service down 65th Street would work for Kings Plaza.

This is where the B23 needs it's 16th Avenue service restored

B47 needed a split from Rutland Road/Sutter Avenue with the re-invention of the B78. The northern portion of that route is overkill and doesn't warrant Woodhull service.

To add:

B14 could use a extension to Rockaway Blvd instead of the Euclid Avenue . However, it does address Pitkin Avenue bus service which is needed in the area. I still have questions about Sutter Avenue service since most patrons are accustomed to Sutter Ave versus Pitkin Avenue. As long as the   and connection is maintained for Brownsville and ENY Patrons I really don't see any problems.

 

[Lawrence St]

I’m kinda surprised they didn’t restore bus service to Union St (B71) or service to 9th/Court/Smith (B75).

[Q43LTD]

23 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I’m kinda surprised they didn’t restore bus service to Union St (B71) or service to 9th/Court/Smith (B75).

Half of the B75 was restored with this new B27. The B71 was definitely a missed opportunity. 

[SubBus]

According to the Remix map, the  is actually suppose to terminate on the far side of Utica Ave.  Clarkson Avenue becomes narrow at that point. It would be a tight squeeze for a two way bus route along that stretch...

[BrooklynBus]

Exactly, which is why I proposed it. Use Clarkson westbound and Winthrop eastbound between Remsen and Utica and should be extended to E 98 St along Clarkson to provide additional transfers. 

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Half of the B75 was restored with this new B27. The B71 was definitely a missed opportunity. 

The eastbound routing for the B71 was a mess being 5 blocks away from the westbound routing on Union St.

[Q43LTD]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The eastbound routing for the B71 was a mess being 5 blocks away from the westbound routing on Union St.

Was it 3 St it used to travel east?