Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Lex]

11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

B70: what's there at 3 Av and 30 St bc I'm lost on this extension

That's Industry City, which is actually a shopping center.

The section of 39th Street west of 3rd Avenue is nothing more than a glorified turnback for the B35 and especially the B70. At the same time, it's much too far away from the venue to actually be particularly useful to people with good hauls (as one example, someone who just scored a bunch of PC components for a new build at Micro Center).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Lex said:

That's Industry City, which is actually a shopping center.

The section of 39th Street west of 3rd Avenue is nothing more than a glorified turnback for the B35 and especially the B70. At the same time, it's much too far away from the venue to actually be particularly useful to people with good hauls (as one example, someone who just scored a bunch of PC components for a new build at Micro Center).

I shop there, but go by car, as do many people.  I do wonder how many people would take the bus there. 

[Lex]

33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I shop there, but go by car, as do many people.  I do wonder how many people would take the bus there. 

If people could actually get there fairly easily by bus, I have no doubt you'd be able to establish a decent base. As it is, people who don't use a car will probably have to hoof it to/from 39th Street or the subway (in part) because the B37 hardly exists.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

15 minutes ago, Lex said:

If people could actually get there fairly easily by bus, I have no doubt you'd be able to establish a decent base. As it is, people who don't use a car will probably have to hoof it to/from 39th Street or the subway (in part) because the B37 hardly exists.

Good point.  Last time I was there I walked around to several stores mainly for some specialty food items.  Made my rounds, but before that walking around I noticed that it felt sort of isolated.  Couldn't even begin to tell you what transit I would've used if I had to. lol  I do know that some people in Bay Ridge shop there, so maybe Bay Ridge or Dyker Heights people will use the bus. 

[Around the Horn]

16 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

B70: what's there at 3 Av and 30 St bc I'm lost on this extension

I'm not sure how exactly they plan to turn around in that area but its called Industry City and it has shops, restaurants, office space and stuff like that

https://industrycity.com/

[B35 via Church]

• my comments on the B2 - B41: >> See Here <<
• my comments on the B43 - B69: >>>  See Here <<<

======================

B70: Agree with taking it away from the current terminal in Sunset Park to have it serve more of Industry City... This looks to be well thought out, because for one, I'm not sure if buses are even allowed on those side streets (of the ones that aren't blocked off, I mean) in Industry City b/w 2nd & 3rd... That, and the north side (SB direction) of 2nd av doesn't even have sidewalks, so buses couldn't terminate on 2nd av either...

B76: So, a rush hour variant of that proposed B66 that runs to the Paerdegats instead of to the Breukelen houses.... There's a couple different ways to take this, but the direction I'll go with for now is, Canarsieans aren't going to take a bus to Broadway Junction during the rush when it (this very B76) or the B42 will dump them off at Canarsie .... Eh, I'll go another direction with it for discussions sake, screw it.... Something else that's going to be a hard sell is a Canarsiean giving up their express at Utica (via the current B17, Paerdegat branch in this case) over this proposed B76 providing those riders a 1-seat ride to the at Rockaway av....

B81: I get wanting to connect Red Hook to other parts of Brooklyn in general - what I don't get is the running of this to the Junction.... To have B103's cut back to the Junction, to have part of the Junction - Downtown Brooklyn segment of the route be turned into a local route serving Windsor Terrace, Park Slope, and Red Hook.... I've said this for quite some time & I still believe it to be the case - there is a latent demand that isn't being addressed (not even with this plan), that entails getting from one side of Prospect Park to the other in a feasible manner....

I mean, they propose extending the B16 (which emanates from points south) to points east (as in, Utica av) & they propose parts of the northern part of the B103 to run a route from the western side of Prospect Park, due south.... But there is nothing going from points west of Prospect of Park, to points east of Prospect Park (BTW, I don't think it's by accident that that B71+ proposal isn't being considered in this "redesign)... To analogize, that would be like trying to get from one side of Central Park to the other without any of the Manhattan crosstowns.... Would be a total PITA, to say the least.

To address this, I'd say they could either use that B10 or this very B81.... I would lean more towards using the B81 (because quite honestly, I don't think the B10 should end up being a thing)... Scrap the Junction part of the idea & send the thing due east instead.... One option would to be to supplant the proposed B16 along Clarkson.... IDRC for a full on Clarkson av route, but I would side with a route serving the western side of Prospect Park (CB6 territory) doing it, moreso than a route from SW Brooklyn (CB10 territory).... I wouldn't worry too much about local service along Cortelyou, those people need their expresses more... Speaking of which, wtf is up with taking the expresses off Cortelyou? I'll get to that later on in this post.

B82: Finally they consider doing away with the [Kings Hwy > Flatbush > Flatlands] routing, to have it go [Kings Hwy > Av. K > Flatlands] instead.... I proposed that very thing on here & it would be so much more seamless to have buses turning on/off Kings Hwy in that fashion... Too bad it would have to come with a significant truncation on the southern end of the route, as all trips (SBS & locals) would be slated to terminate at UP depot.... Again, something's gonna have to give, because I can not see both variants of the B6 (proposed B5 & B6) and both variants of the B82 (local & SBS) ending over there.... Of course they won't consider this (since these redesigns are about budget trimming), but I still say that they should cut the cord with the B82 as a single route & come to the realization that they never should've combined the old B5 (Flatbush/Kings Hwy - Cropsey/Canal) & old B50 (CI av/Quentin rd - Spring Creek Towers) to form it to begin with... Proposing cutting the B82 to Cropsey/Canal is going to make the thing that much more useless past 86th st.... Different demographics back then, yes, but that was one of the problems with the old B5, usage-wise.... Considering today's demographics along/around the more westerly part of the route, a western split of the B82, especially to Coney Island, would do infinitely better....

Being that the B82 & the B68 would no longer serve Coney Island, there's going to be a noticeable increase on people taking the Brighton line for short trips (as in, within southern Brooklyn).... Gotta wonder if that's by "design" also ...

B83: Took long enough to consider straightening the damn thing along Pennsylvania av.

-------------------

 

That's my commentary for the local routes...

I'll comment on the express bus changes in my reply to others' replies in this thread thus far.

[N6 Limited]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Something else that's going to be a hard sell is a Canarsiean giving up their express at Utica (via the current B17, Paerdegat branch in this case) over this proposed B76 providing those riders a 1-seat ride to the at Rockaway av....

The B17 is slow, you cannot go more than two blocks on Remsen Ave without stopping at a red signal.

[BreeddekalbL]

I wonder who would get swapped out of their depots etc 

[Lawrence St]

With the B70, I hope they thought out that Industry Terminal routing well, because I see countless trucks blow tires on those jagged edges of the abandoned railroad tracks.

[Cait Sith]

54 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

With the B70, I hope they thought out that Industry Terminal routing well, because I see countless trucks blow tires on those jagged edges of the abandoned railroad tracks.

......what abandoned tracks? There's none around that immediate area of the Industry City Shopping Center.

 

11 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I'm not sure how exactly they plan to turn around in that area but its called Industry City and it has shops, restaurants, office space and stuff like that

https://industrycity.com/

I would think, from 3rd, left on 30th, left on 3rd. The stop list has it ending and starting at 3rd & 30th.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

42 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

I would think, from 3rd, left on 30th, left on 3rd. The stop list has it ending and starting at 3rd & 30th.

Yeah that makes the most sense and is very easy. They can't come around any other way from there unless they go further north.

[checkmatechamp13]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That's my commentary for the local routes...

I'll comment on the express bus changes in my reply to others' replies in this thread thus far.

Any comments for the eastern portion of the B103? They seem to consider it a replacement for the Van Siclen portion of the B83 (I have no idea how...I guess because it goes from Van Siclen & Cozine over to the train). 

If anything, I think it should end around the Breukelen Houses (likely 105th & Farragut by the train...might as well provide the direct connection from the eastern portion of Canarsie over to the  )

[Nova Fly Guy]

23 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Any comments for the eastern portion of the B103? They seem to consider it a replacement for the Van Siclen portion of the B83 (I have no idea how...I guess because it goes from Van Siclen & Cozine over to the train). 

If anything, I think it should end around the Breukelen Houses (likely 105th & Farragut by the train...might as well provide the direct connection from the eastern portion of Canarsie over to the  )

That a bad spot nobody wants E 105 St you can walk from Flatlands or get on the B6. They really should have sent it up Van Siclen to replace the B83 people will use it to get to the .

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Any comments for the eastern portion of the B103? They seem to consider it a replacement for the Van Siclen portion of the B83 (I have no idea how...I guess because it goes from Van Siclen & Cozine over to the train). 

If anything, I think it should end around the Breukelen Houses (likely 105th & Farragut by the train...might as well provide the direct connection from the eastern portion of Canarsie over to the  )

Only comments for the B5 so far.

By connecting to New Lots Ave  station, it runs close enough to Gateway Center to walk over without transferring, and gives those in Canarsie an easy way to travel east, connects to the Q8, B55, B20, Etc.

New lots Ave station is a Future Accessible station.

The redesign should not just provide existing connections but provide new connections for easy travel. 

58 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

That a bad spot nobody wants E 105 St you can walk from Flatlands or get on the B6. They really should have sent it up Van Siclen to replace the B83 people will use it to get to the .

I’m not sure I see a reason for this.

• Spring Creek Riders are a block over from Pennsylvania Ave (B83).
• The B103 connects to the New Lots Ave  from Cozine and Van Siclen.
• The B20 Connects to the Pennsylvania Ave  from Stanley Ave and Van Siclen. 
• Hegeman Ave is 2 blocks from the Van Siclen Station.
• New Lots Ave and Van Siclen is one block from the Van Siclen Ave station.
• Riverdale Ave is 1 Block over from the El, walkable to New Lots Ave and Pennsylvania Ave Stations.
• New Lots Ave has the B15 that will take them to New Lots  Ave Station.
• New Lots Ave Station is a future accessible station
• The routing will provide connections to other Bus routes
  • B55
  • B83
  • B5LTD
  • B20
  • B15
  • Q8

[Nova Fly Guy]

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

Only comments for the B5 so far.

By connecting to New Lots Ave  station, it runs close enough to Gateway Center to walk over without transferring, and gives those in Canarsie an easy way to travel east, connects to the Q8, B55, B20, Etc.

New lots Ave station is a Future Accessible station.

The redesign should not just provide existing connections but provide new connections for easy travel. 

I’m not sure I see a reason for this.

• Spring Creek Riders are a block over from Pennsylvania Ave (B83).
• The B103 connects to the New Lots Ave  from Cozine and Van Siclen.
• The B20 Connects to the Pennsylvania Ave  from Stanley Ave and Van Siclen. 
• Hegeman Ave is 2 blocks from the Van Siclen Station.
• New Lots Ave and Van Siclen is one block from the Van Siclen Ave station.
• Riverdale Ave is 1 Block over from the El, walkable to New Lots Ave and Pennsylvania Ave Stations.
• New Lots Ave has the B15 that will take them to New Lots  Ave Station.
• New Lots Ave Station is a future accessible station
• The routing will provide connections to other Bus routes
  • B55
  • B83
  • B5LTD
  • B20
  • B15
  • Q8

The B20/B83 Feed Broadway Junction for the most part the B15 was more for the Airport then locals. Linden & boulevard riders will use the  because it is closer then riding to the Junction or waiting on that awful B20. 
 

The B5 will work just like the B6 expect you will see a rise in starrett city rider that don’t wanna transfer to the B82.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Nova Fly Guy

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

The B17 is slow, you cannot go more than two blocks on Remsen Ave without stopping at a red signal.

It still serves the , which was the point.... This plan doesn't offer any alternative for that purpose, to avert the sluggish B17.... Those riders want their direct access to the express at Utica.

12 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

With the B70, I hope they thought out that Industry Terminal routing well, because I see countless trucks blow tires on those jagged edges of the abandoned railroad tracks.

Even if I believed this, what you're bringing up here is irrelevant, as it pertains to the proposed B70.... They don't have the thing crossing those tracks, over there short of 39th by the Costco's....

.....and those tracks are not jagged over there anyway.

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Any comments for the eastern portion of the B103? They seem to consider it a replacement for the Van Siclen portion of the B83 (I have no idea how...I guess because it goes from Van Siclen & Cozine over to the train). 

If anything, I think it should end around the Breukelen Houses (likely 105th & Farragut by the train...might as well provide the direct connection from the eastern portion of Canarsie over to the  )

Yeah, I briefly brought it up under my B5/B6 commentary... Don't care for it... I'd say they'd have been better off running it to Starrett than New Lots , since they're proposing nerfing it to the Junction.... That's likely their way of getting folks to consider taking 's all the way to the end of the line to get to Canarsie, instead of taking 's to the Junction (or those that ride from Downtown Brooklyn itself) to get to Canarsie.... The current Van Siclen riders are hardly thinking about B6's or B84's in that direction, for having B103's to New Lots to be some sort of replacement for the B83...

The current B103 already ends by the Breukelen houses (albeit on the Flatlands side).... Nova Fly Guy is right about E. 105th ; demand for that station is low... I mean, simply put, your odds at getting a seat drastically decreases if you don't board at Canarsie .... Can't really blame those folks.

Edited December 7, 2022 by B35 via Church

[Lawrence St]

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

It still serves the , which was the point.... This plan doesn't offer any alternative for that purpose, to avert the sluggish B17.... Those riders want their direct access to the express at Utica.

Even if I believed this, what you're bringing up here is irrelevant, as it pertains to the proposed B70.... They don't have the thing crossing those tracks, over there short of 39th by the Costco's....

.....and those tracks are not jagged over there anyway.

Yeah, I briefly brought it up under my B5/B6 commentary... Don't care for it... I'd say they'd have been better off running it to Starrett than New Lots , since they're proposing nerfing it to the Junction.... That's likely their way of getting folks to consider taking 's all the way to the end of the line to get to Canarsie, instead of taking 's to the Junction (or those that ride from Downtown Brooklyn itself) to get to Canarsie.... The current Van Siclen riders are hardly thinking about B6's or B84's in that direction, for having B103's to New Lots to be some sort of replacement for the B83...

The current B103 already ends by the Breukelen houses (albeit on the Flatlands side).... Nova Fly Guy is right about E. 105th ; demand for that station is low... I mean, simply put, your odds at getting a seat drastically decreases if you don't board at Canarsie .... Can't really blame those folks.

Last time I was there it was.

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Last time I was there it was.

They can't be especially since they actively use those tracks.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 12/2/2022 at 11:43 AM, Nova Fly Guy said:

B5/B6 - I have no complaints I’m from Breukelen we wanted a bus to gateway without going to East New York. Moving it off of Glenwood was a great move almost Nobody get on the bus it also eliminates that Bottle neck At Nostrand & Albany Av. Ceasar Bay is a Driver friendly shopping Center nobody used the B6 for that anyway. I believe this is a streamline thing for 60FT in the Future 

 

My point of curiosity is this:  If B60 can be split into two routes, why are the much longer B6 and B82 not split?  

[Q43LTD]

Could add the B47 to that too

[Jdog14]

7 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

My point of curiosity is this:  If B60 can be split into two routes, why are the much longer B6 and B82 not split?  

 

I feel like part of the reason why the B60 was split is because of the commercial traffic in the Bushwick section of the route. That whole area of Brooklyn is terrible for trucks. 

[Nova Fly Guy]

10 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

My point of curiosity is this:  If B60 can be split into two routes, why are the much longer B6 and B82 not split?  

The B60 is not a good split its more of a Bx15/M125 thing because of Traffic on Wilson. With the B6 where do you split it at CI Ave or Maybe Nostrand ?? The B6 is a challenge Because it carries on both End a lot harder.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

16 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

With the B6 where do you split it at CI Ave or Maybe Nostrand ?? The B6 is a challenge Because it carries on both End a lot harder.

The two segments would probably have to overlap between Flatbush Junction and Rockaway Parkway.

[Nova Fly Guy]

27 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The two segments would probably have to overlap between Flatbush Junction and Rockaway Parkway.

Which is a wasted of a route the B6 is long over due for 60FT conversion.

[Q43LTD]

I'm guessing the segments would be Caesars Bay to Brooklyn College and Brooklyn College and Gateway Center.