Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[BrooklynBus]

The MTA still doesn’t get it.

https://www.qchron.com/opinion/columns/the-mta-still-doesnt-get-it/article_6372fa02-c001-11ec-99a5-2fc3baf3d7a0.html

[Joel Powers]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:49 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Not happening.  Speed humps were put in by the community in Laurelton, and besides is Laurelton LIRR station heavily utilized?. Only way they rid of them is re-paving the whole street and by NYCDOT standards that takes forever. 

In general, don't NYC DOT repave a block...once a decade?

 

22 hours ago, Lex said:

Why not restore the Springfield Gardens station?

If they got rid of that segment to begin with, then I'd imagine that portion of the Q77 wasn't carrying that many passengers.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

35 minutes ago, Joel Powers said:

In general, don't NYC DOT repave a block...once a decade?

Major corridors are supposed to be repaves roughly every five years.

[Joel Powers]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Major corridors are supposed to be repaves roughly every five years.

Now that makes sense as they are more worn out over time. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:10 PM, Future ENY OP said:

The B57 is very interesting.  But the loss of service to Wegmans and the area surrounding Farragut Houses is very interesting to say the least. I understand the TA wants to streamline the service along Flushing Ave. But, eliminating the service around the Farragut Houses area would defeat the purpose for the complex. Those bus stops in the area are well used. I'm personally glad that the 57 is returning back to it's original terminal in Downtown Brooklyn, but guessing what's gonna be done with the Red Hook variant still remains to be seen but maybe a revival of the B75 and B77. The B62 has no business in Astoria (making up for the failed BQX light rail connection, and I don't think NYC will ever have the infrastructure to produce light rail material)

Personally, Red hook needs back the B75, and B77 and reduce the B61 plainly a Park Slope- Downtown Brooklyn route without the Red Hook variant. 

Yeah, eliminating both the B57 and B62 from the Farragut Houses is nothing short of dumb. I would keep the B57 there, since I think there's more demand to the areas where the B57 goes headed east (as well as to connecting bus and subway routes), compared to the B62 headed north. The B62 can head straight to Downtown Brooklyn via Park Avenue. 

As far as the B57 proposal in the Queens redesign, with the exception of it running all the way out to 82nd Street & 37th Ave (I would terminate it at the Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights subway station), I like the route. I see a route like that catching on and being useful, and it's one of those routes which has been brought back from the first draft. However, I do share the concern about the Red Hook - Downtown segment. I cannot count on the MTA to not leave that segment with no bus service, which I disagree with. If there's any route that I would run there, I would have the B62 like I mentioned earlier. They can extend the existing B62 down there (and not have it take over 21st Street, have a modified B32 do that instead). If there's any group of people who might head down to Red Hook, particularly IKEA, it would be the hipster types in northern Brooklyn. Have the destination signs read 'RED HOOK IKEA via Downtown Brooklyn' or something. 

On 4/16/2022 at 7:33 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

1. That QM7 proposal is already pissing some people off. I have one lady in my group that is going crazy. The concern is that their commute will be even longer than what it is. It is already a long ride from Fresh Meadows to Downtown. Adding those stops along Queens Blvd, which as I'm sure you know has become MUCH slower with the Vision Zero changes, bike lanes and the like could make that trip easily two hours one way. I would say that with the changes on Queens Blvd, my trips to Queens were a good 20-30 minutes longer than before, and this was with the QM1, QM5 or QM6. One idea floating around is to have that new QM65 bus make those stops. It would be a new ridership base and quite frankly, it isn't clear how much ridership will come from Southeast Queens, so like the QM18, it may be very dependent on getting ridership from Queens Blvd to survive. It's actually a good idea. Time will tell what is decided.

2. It's very simple. The people in Rochdale Village want the bus as is, that is serving that entire housing complex. It currently loops around Rochdale Village and so if it doesn't do that, then someone would lose their stop. I know people were quite upset about it and raised hell. They circulated the flier we created for sure. You will notice that quite a few routes are not changing that much. They have focused more on cutting the frequencies since they received a lot of negative feedback from elected officials about the routes and the cuts to the spans. There are also quite a few concerned QM3 riders that have joined and are contacting their elected officials to keep that route.

3. Here's the problem with the QM20. Personally I'm all for keeping it, but even during the week, ridership is not bursting at the seams on those off-peak trips, so getting the  to run the QM20 on weekends would be next to impossible, precisely for that reason. Right now, the focus is on trying to keep the QM20 during the week and keeping the current QM2 service during the week and on weekends. I also want to push for earlier QM2 and QM20 service because quite a few people are annoyed that they have to drive to Union Turnpike for a QM5. The other request is Downtown service covering the Bay Terrace, Bayside, Whitestone, Beechhurst area.

4. The QM1 should run because it would take the strain off of the QM5. The QM5 gets more ridership than the QM6, as it serves a number of co-ops and such. Not having to loop around and serve Fresh Meadows just makes sense. I think the  realized that too. I've taken QM5 and QM6 trips to the end of the line. The QM5 made me want to pull my hair out. Just wayy too much. It's much better starting with pick-ups and drop-offs at 188th. I would keep the QM6 running from Main St to Lake Success, as it is very fast along Union Turnpike, provided the driver moves. Furthermore, it just doesn't get as much ridership, even with the North Shore Towers crowd. More low density along Union Turnpike (more homes and fewer co-ops). For whatever reason, the co-ops by Main St don't draw as many express bus riders as one would think. The folks in that area seem content to take the bus to the subway overall. I do however agree that a weekend QM1 won't do much. Catchment area is not that big and despite that large complex by 188th, the ridership isn't what it once was there, BUT something has to serve it. If you don't have the QM1 there, I could see people being pissed and raising hell. Co-ops tend to have a lot of clout. The residents attend in large numbers at community board meetings and are very vocal. 

You see some of these housing complexes were created with the promise that they would have good transportation, usually in the form of express bus service. You take that away, and the value of those co-ops is not nearly as high because now you've got to take a bus to the subway, which could be a much longer trip. That's pretty much the deal with places like Parkchester and a number of other housing complexes in Queens and elsewhere. The  knows this too, but they want to see how much they can get away with. I mean the North Shore Towers is another example where they advertise right on their website that they have express bus service right outside the buildings.  Having service cut could make people re-think buying there.

5. We will see what happens with that. QM10 riders in my group are not happy, that much I know. We have actually more QM10 riders than QM12 riders in the group IIRC, but I would have to look and see.

1. Yeah, which is why I'm not too hot on a QM7/QM11 merger (and was also one of the first things I said in earlier posts in this thread, regarding longer runtimes). It may be more tolerable during some parts of the rush where activity may be lower, but that's usually the earlier and later parts of the service span, when traffic isn't as bad. As far as what route serves it, what you're saying is more or less a QM11 extended to SE Queens (and cutting off the Rego Park/LeFrak City loop). Problem I see is that I don't see too many SE Queens patrons (especially the further south you go) wanting to deal with a Downtown bus that makes all those stops on Queens Boulevard. There may be some demand to that stop on 34th Street & 1st Ave, but that's only one stop (and not even in Downtown to boot). 

3. I would say that a lot of what hurts the QM20 off-peak is it's route, on top of its frequencies. The QM20 doesn't really serve the Bay Terrace Co-Ops and Condos too extensively, which isn't a problem during peak hours, but becomes one during off-peak hours. The QM2 not only serves the area much better but operates twice as frequent, rendering the QM20 as a non-starter. That's not to say that the QM20 should operate every 30 minutes, because that would be excessive. I think providing midday and inbound PM service every 60 minutes on each route would be fine, since the QM2 just doesn't do like it used to. However I personally would also look into having the QM20 serve more of the Bay Terrace Co-Ops, taking the same route that the QM2 does up there. Like I would try my hand at running service to/from 212th & Bell (inbound service picks up along Bell Boulevard, outbound service drops off along 212th Street). That way that area still has 30 minute express bus service to/from Manhattan. 

4. If the QM1 is helping out any route in this situation, it would be the QM6, not the QM5. They have the QM5 making those stops along 188th Street north of 73rd Avenue before taking Horace Harding. So the QM5 would be the route people gravitate towards, especially if they keep it as heading straight to Manhattan from there (I'm fine with it during rush hours, although I would still argue that it should make additional stops along it's proposed route, which would still be more direct than the existing one). The QM6 alone cannot hold down Union Turnpike during the peak, hence why I would have short-turns mixed in with buses doing the full route to maintain a consistent headway.

As far as the apartment complex, that's why I suggested that the QM1 resources during off-peak hours be instead used to retain off-peak QM4 service, and modify the route so that it serves Fresh Meadows Apartments during off-peak hours instead of going up 164th Street (since I would have the QM5 make off-peak stops along Horace Harding, which includes on at 164th Street). Would also help out the QM4, on top of making stops on Queens Boulevard during those same times, and Fresh Meadows would see more frequent service during evenings and weekends (QM5 midday service is already every 30 minutes, which is slated to be slashed to every 60 minutes).

On 4/17/2022 at 5:18 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

The thing is that the individual trips are fairly busy, but the routes are not that frequent (especially in the PM rush), so the total amount of people being served isn't as much as it may appear at first glance. The other question of course is what is considered full for a bus...are all of these trips in the heart of rush hour carrying 50+ people? If they're carrying 30-35 people, that may be decent compared to other express routes, but that's really not that much when you consider that the B/O is probably only (essentially) doing one revenue round-trip in their whole shift. 

The other thing is that the QM11 only really serves Queens Blvd in the AM rush. At its core, it's really a route that is designed to serve Rego Park & LeFrak (which it will still do, but with a more direct route). And those riders who board along Queens Blvd in the AM rush will have a quicker ride with the QM7, and also PM service. 

If you divide the Union Turnpike & Queens Blvd corridors, guaranteed that both would see less frequent service than they do today. The QM7 would be losing pretty much all of its Fresh Meadows riders to the QM8, and the Queens Blvd portion of the QM11 would be running entirely within walking distance to the subway. And then to have any type of Downtown route for the northern/eastern sections of Rego Park would cut into that ridership even further.

For the QM12, it's only 5 short blocks from HHE down to 63rd Drive (and depending on the exact destination, walking from 108th Street may also be an option). Not to mention walking from Queens Blvd, or if someone absolutely can't walk those few blocks, taking the QM7 and transferring to the Q38. I suppose if you absolutely had to, you could have the QM11/12/42 take HHE - 99th Street - 63rd Drive - 108th Street, but the area by 108th Street is further from the subway, so it wouldn't make that much sense to divert the express bus from an area that's further from the subway, to serve an area that's closer to the subway, unless you think there's basically zero potential ridership in the vicinity of HHE & 108th Street.

Well, it doesn't appear to be too much of an issue with QM11 riders, regarding the existing frequencies (not that I've heard of). 

The QM11 gets a lot of its ridership from points south of 63rd Drive. The majority of PM ridership for example is still on the bus south of 63rd Drive, even though there's quite a notable chunk of riders that get off by that point. It does everything in one. If that section of Queens Boulevard really had that low ridership, it would have been cut back by now. I'm not too concerned about walkability to the subway, since its a downtown bus, and the  is a joke. The QBL also seems to have a major incident fairly often, so it would only help the QM11 out.

As far as the QM7 goes, the loss of riders from Fresh Meadows is not that big of an issue, it's not where the majority of ridership comes from anyways. The Union Turnpike crowd will still account for most of the ridership. 

I'm not saying there's zero ridership potential in that area, but the meat of the ridership comes from the area near 62nd Drive/63rd Road in Rego Park. That's really the only thing the existing QM10 has going for it during the PM rush, since the QM12 runs on HHE and rarely drops-off in that section. Having the proposed HHE express bus stop at 99th Street and 108th Street would be more for folks who are walking to points north of HHE rather than south, of which I would see more ridership going towards 108th Street. 

On 4/17/2022 at 9:13 PM, QM1to6Ave said:

I finally heard back from one of my elected officials, who said they will fight against the cuts. I might contact the others again as they have not yet responded

I've only heard back from one and fairly quickly (state assemblyman), which he responded fairly quickly, the very same day. The others yeah, no dice. Calling as VG8 mentioned would essentially be more effective and put them on the spot if you're keeping it short, but email is good for further explanation (especially if you have any considerations that you want to point out, like I had, which would be too long to explain every little detail in a call). 

Good luck with that, I suppose. I don't know about your reps, but my council member may probably not be too helpful on this. Dudes been spending more time posturing as an 'anti-woke' Dem and on stuff like 'back the blue' , instead of actually helping deliver material benefits to the district (dudes the only person I know who went from a Sanders supporter, to that). On transportation he's been particularly terrible, dude's been against every bus lane in the area and has even tried to stop one of them (Fresh Pond Road), hasn't done much on the express bus side, was one of the pols who pushed to close the subways and buses for at least a week (after covid hit), and is apparently pushing to not have bus lane rules in effect citywide on holidays. I don't even think he had a role in the improvements the MTA made on the QM25 in the AM a few years ago (when he's been in office). I haven't seen him ever talk about it nor take some credit for it.

I'm obviously extremely thrilled to be represented by such a person .

Edited April 22, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Future ENY OP]

6 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yeah, eliminating both the B57 and B62 from the Farragut Houses is nothing short of dumb. I would keep the B57 there, since I think there's more demand to the areas where the B57 goes headed east (as well as to connecting bus and subway routes), compared to the B62 headed north. The B62 can head straight to Downtown Brooklyn via Park Avenue. 

As far as the B57 proposal in the Queens redesign, with the exception of it running all the way out to 82nd Street & 37th Ave (I would terminate it at the Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights subway station), I like the route. I see a route like that catching on and being useful, and it's one of those routes which has been brought back from the first draft. However, I do share the concern about the Red Hook - Downtown segment. I cannot count on the MTA to not leave that segment with no bus service, which I disagree with. If there's any route that I would run there, I would have the B62 like I mentioned earlier. They can extend the existing B62 down there (and not have it take over 21st Street, have a modified B32 do that instead). If there's any group of people who might head down to Red Hook, particularly IKEA, it would be the hipster types in northern Brooklyn. Have the destination signs read 'RED HOOK IKEA via Downtown Brooklyn' or something. 

I’m going to keep my comments brief with the regards to this portion of the design since it has both Brooklyn and Queens elements. 
 

The 57 to me needs to serve Farragut more than 62. But what i do notice about the 62 in the general area it has good ridership status from those bus stops in the area.  Most people in that general area tend to shoot for the  on Marcy where as the 57 patrons tend to shoot for Flushing. However, with the added 57 service to Jackson Heights this is going to be a good demographic for intra Brooklyn/Queens travel who need  services.  
 

As for the IKEA, Red Hook and Downtown Brooklyn you cannot have the 61 do most of the leg work in the area. The reinstatement of the Park Slope lines B75 and B77 would help immensely to deal with the IKEA, Carroll Gardens, Red Hook and Downtown Brooklyn service.  (I’ll talk about this more in Brooklyn sub section)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yeah, eliminating both the B57 and B62 from the Farragut Houses is nothing short of dumb. I would keep the B57 there, since I think there's more demand to the areas where the B57 goes headed east (as well as to connecting bus and subway routes), compared to the B62 headed north. The B62 can head straight to Downtown Brooklyn via Park Avenue. 

As far as the B57 proposal in the Queens redesign, with the exception of it running all the way out to 82nd Street & 37th Ave (I would terminate it at the Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights subway station), I like the route. I see a route like that catching on and being useful, and it's one of those routes which has been brought back from the first draft. However, I do share the concern about the Red Hook - Downtown segment. I cannot count on the MTA to not leave that segment with no bus service, which I disagree with. If there's any route that I would run there, I would have the B62 like I mentioned earlier. They can extend the existing B62 down there (and not have it take over 21st Street, have a modified B32 do that instead). If there's any group of people who might head down to Red Hook, particularly IKEA, it would be the hipster types in northern Brooklyn. Have the destination signs read 'RED HOOK IKEA via Downtown Brooklyn' or something. 

1. Yeah, which is why I'm not too hot on a QM7/QM11 merger (and was also one of the first things I said in earlier posts in this thread, regarding longer runtimes). It may be more tolerable during some parts of the rush where activity may be lower, but that's usually the earlier and later parts of the service span, when traffic isn't as bad. As far as what route serves it, what you're saying is more or less a QM11 extended to SE Queens (and cutting off the Rego Park/LeFrak City loop). Problem I see is that I don't see too many SE Queens patrons (especially the further south you go) wanting to deal with a Downtown bus that makes all those stops on Queens Boulevard. There may be some demand to that stop on 34th Street & 1st Ave, but that's only one stop (and not even in Downtown to boot). 

3. I would say that a lot of what hurts the QM20 off-peak is it's route, on top of its frequencies. The QM20 doesn't really serve the Bay Terrace Co-Ops and Condos too extensively, which isn't a problem during peak hours, but becomes one during off-peak hours. The QM2 not only serves the area much better but operates twice as frequent, rendering the QM20 as a non-starter. That's not to say that the QM20 should operate every 30 minutes, because that would be excessive. I think providing midday and inbound PM service every 60 minutes on each route would be fine, since the QM2 just doesn't do like it used to. However I personally would also look into having the QM20 serve more of the Bay Terrace Co-Ops, taking the same route that the QM2 does up there. Like I would try my hand at running service to/from 212th & Bell (inbound service picks up along Bell Boulevard, outbound service drops off along 212th Street). That way that area still has 30 minute express bus service to/from Manhattan. 

4. If the QM1 is helping out any route in this situation, it would be the QM6, not the QM5. They have the QM5 making those stops along 188th Street north of 73rd Avenue before taking Horace Harding. So the QM5 would be the route people gravitate towards, especially if they keep it as heading straight to Manhattan from there (I'm fine with it during rush hours, although I would still argue that it should make additional stops along it's proposed route, which would still be more direct than the existing one). The QM6 alone cannot hold down Union Turnpike during the peak, hence why I would have short-turns mixed in with buses doing the full route to maintain a consistent headway.

As far as the apartment complex, that's why I suggested that the QM1 resources during off-peak hours be instead used to retain off-peak QM4 service, and modify the route so that it serves Fresh Meadows Apartments during off-peak hours instead of going up 164th Street (since I would have the QM5 make off-peak stops along Horace Harding, which includes on at 164th Street). Would also help out the QM4, on top of making stops on Queens Boulevard during those same times, and Fresh Meadows would see more frequent service during evenings and weekends (QM5 midday service is already every 30 minutes, which is slated to be slashed to every 60 minutes).

5. Good luck with that, I suppose. I don't know about your reps, but my council member may probably not be too helpful on this. Dudes been spending more time posturing as an 'anti-woke' Dem and on stuff like 'back the blue' , instead of actually helping deliver material benefits to the district (dudes the only person I know who went from a Sanders supporter, to that). On transportation he's been particularly terrible, dude's been against every bus lane in the area and has even tried to stop one of them (Fresh Pond Road), hasn't done much on the express bus side, was one of the pols who pushed to close the subways and buses for at least a week (after covid hit), and is apparently pushing to not have bus lane rules in effect citywide on holidays. I don't even think he had a role in the improvements the MTA made on the QM25 in the AM a few years ago (when he's been in office). I haven't seen him ever talk about it nor take some credit for it.

I'm obviously extremely thrilled to be represented by such a person .

2. Well SE Queens express bus riders already deal with such a situation with the X63, X64 and X68. I know it's currently only one stop on Queens Blvd, but they could stretch out the stops elsewhere to keep things tolerable. The may be forced either way. I don't see that much ridership coming from SE Queens for a Downtown route and if it doesn't perform well, then they'll need riders from elsewhere.

3. Well you need the QM20 running for sure, but yes, it doesn't serve as many co-ops in general as the QM2 does, which helps that line. The express buses that do the best usually have dense buildings to draw from, be it co-ops or condos. Staten Island is an exception because of how limited transportation is, but for the other boroughs, it is the co-ops and condos that help. People that live in houses may take the express bus, but it's more of an occasional thing and they are more likely to drive. 

4. The QM5 automatically improves by not having to come down to Union Turnpike or do that loop nonsense over by 164th, so while you are correct, I am thinking about what it currently does now vs. what they are proposing it do, but yes, the QM1 would help the QM6 more.

5. Which rep is this? I have a rep. from Councilman Holden's office in the group fielding feedback from QM15, QM24, QM25 & QM34 riders. If you mean Senator Addabbo, yes, he has been useless. Contacted his office previously and he said he would get on it and nothing happened with it. You kine of figure out quickly who is useful and who isn't. Quite a few Queens reps. follow me and have helped with express bus issues,as I note that their constituents are complaining about XYZ when I contact them.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

2. Well SE Queens express bus riders already deal with such a situation with the X63, X64 and X68. I know it's currently only one stop on Queens Blvd, but they could stretch out the stops elsewhere to keep things tolerable. The may be forced either way. I don't see that much ridership coming from SE Queens for a Downtown route and if it doesn't perform well, then they'll need riders from elsewhere.

3. Well you need the QM20 running for sure, but yes, it doesn't serve as many co-ops in general as the QM2 does, which helps that line. The express buses that do the best usually have dense buildings to draw from, be it co-ops or condos. Staten Island is an exception because of how limited transportation is, but for the other boroughs, it is the co-ops and condos that help. People that live in houses may take the express bus, but it's more of an occasional thing and they are more likely to drive. 

4. The QM5 automatically improves by not having to come down to Union Turnpike or do that loop nonsense over by 164th, so while you are correct, I am thinking about what it currently does now vs. what they are proposing it do, but yes, the QM1 would help the QM6 more.

5. Which rep is this? I have a rep. from Councilman Holden's office in the group fielding feedback from QM15, QM24, QM25 & QM34 riders. If you mean Senator Addabbo, yes, he has been useless. Contacted his office previously and he said he would get on it and nothing happened with it. You kine of figure out quickly who is useful and who isn't. Quite a few Queens reps. follow me and have helped with express bus issues,as I note that their constituents are complaining about XYZ when I contact them.

2. Yeah, SE Queens to Downtown is a market that I'm not sure has sufficient demand, which is why I'm on the fence with this QM65, even though it does provide a more direct ride into Downtown Manhattan compared to the LIRR to Atlantic Terminal. If I tried my hand on this, and the route made stops on Queens Boulevard, I'd probably not run it anywhere south of Rochdale Village. 

5. When I made those comments, yes, that was who I was referring to. He's largely been on the wrong side when it comes to that, even though he claims that he's for the things he's against. Not holding my breath, but if his office getting involved with taking feedback from express bus riders, then I guess that's a step in the right direction. As for Addabbo, LOL. Sounds about right. 

[QM1to6Ave]

13 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yeah, eliminating both the B57 and B62 from the Farragut Houses is nothing short of dumb. I would keep the B57 there, since I think there's more demand to the areas where the B57 goes headed east (as well as to connecting bus and subway routes), compared to the B62 headed north. The B62 can head straight to Downtown Brooklyn via Park Avenue. 

As far as the B57 proposal in the Queens redesign, with the exception of it running all the way out to 82nd Street & 37th Ave (I would terminate it at the Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights subway station), I like the route. I see a route like that catching on and being useful, and it's one of those routes which has been brought back from the first draft. However, I do share the concern about the Red Hook - Downtown segment. I cannot count on the MTA to not leave that segment with no bus service, which I disagree with. If there's any route that I would run there, I would have the B62 like I mentioned earlier. They can extend the existing B62 down there (and not have it take over 21st Street, have a modified B32 do that instead). If there's any group of people who might head down to Red Hook, particularly IKEA, it would be the hipster types in northern Brooklyn. Have the destination signs read 'RED HOOK IKEA via Downtown Brooklyn' or something. 

1. Yeah, which is why I'm not too hot on a QM7/QM11 merger (and was also one of the first things I said in earlier posts in this thread, regarding longer runtimes). It may be more tolerable during some parts of the rush where activity may be lower, but that's usually the earlier and later parts of the service span, when traffic isn't as bad. As far as what route serves it, what you're saying is more or less a QM11 extended to SE Queens (and cutting off the Rego Park/LeFrak City loop). Problem I see is that I don't see too many SE Queens patrons (especially the further south you go) wanting to deal with a Downtown bus that makes all those stops on Queens Boulevard. There may be some demand to that stop on 34th Street & 1st Ave, but that's only one stop (and not even in Downtown to boot). 

3. I would say that a lot of what hurts the QM20 off-peak is it's route, on top of its frequencies. The QM20 doesn't really serve the Bay Terrace Co-Ops and Condos too extensively, which isn't a problem during peak hours, but becomes one during off-peak hours. The QM2 not only serves the area much better but operates twice as frequent, rendering the QM20 as a non-starter. That's not to say that the QM20 should operate every 30 minutes, because that would be excessive. I think providing midday and inbound PM service every 60 minutes on each route would be fine, since the QM2 just doesn't do like it used to. However I personally would also look into having the QM20 serve more of the Bay Terrace Co-Ops, taking the same route that the QM2 does up there. Like I would try my hand at running service to/from 212th & Bell (inbound service picks up along Bell Boulevard, outbound service drops off along 212th Street). That way that area still has 30 minute express bus service to/from Manhattan. 

4. If the QM1 is helping out any route in this situation, it would be the QM6, not the QM5. They have the QM5 making those stops along 188th Street north of 73rd Avenue before taking Horace Harding. So the QM5 would be the route people gravitate towards, especially if they keep it as heading straight to Manhattan from there (I'm fine with it during rush hours, although I would still argue that it should make additional stops along it's proposed route, which would still be more direct than the existing one). The QM6 alone cannot hold down Union Turnpike during the peak, hence why I would have short-turns mixed in with buses doing the full route to maintain a consistent headway.

As far as the apartment complex, that's why I suggested that the QM1 resources during off-peak hours be instead used to retain off-peak QM4 service, and modify the route so that it serves Fresh Meadows Apartments during off-peak hours instead of going up 164th Street (since I would have the QM5 make off-peak stops along Horace Harding, which includes on at 164th Street). Would also help out the QM4, on top of making stops on Queens Boulevard during those same times, and Fresh Meadows would see more frequent service during evenings and weekends (QM5 midday service is already every 30 minutes, which is slated to be slashed to every 60 minutes).

Well, it doesn't appear to be too much of an issue with QM11 riders, regarding the existing frequencies (not that I've heard of). 

The QM11 gets a lot of its ridership from points south of 63rd Drive. The majority of PM ridership for example is still on the bus south of 63rd Drive, even though there's quite a notable chunk of riders that get off by that point. It does everything in one. If that section of Queens Boulevard really had that low ridership, it would have been cut back by now. I'm not too concerned about walkability to the subway, since its a downtown bus, and the  is a joke. The QBL also seems to have a major incident fairly often, so it would only help the QM11 out.

As far as the QM7 goes, the loss of riders from Fresh Meadows is not that big of an issue, it's not where the majority of ridership comes from anyways. The Union Turnpike crowd will still account for most of the ridership. 

I'm not saying there's zero ridership potential in that area, but the meat of the ridership comes from the area near 62nd Drive/63rd Road in Rego Park. That's really the only thing the existing QM10 has going for it during the PM rush, since the QM12 runs on HHE and rarely drops-off in that section. Having the proposed HHE express bus stop at 99th Street and 108th Street would be more for folks who are walking to points north of HHE rather than south, of which I would see more ridership going towards 108th Street. 

I've only heard back from one and fairly quickly (state assemblyman), which he responded fairly quickly, the very same day. The others yeah, no dice. Calling as VG8 mentioned would essentially be more effective and put them on the spot if you're keeping it short, but email is good for further explanation (especially if you have any considerations that you want to point out, like I had, which would be too long to explain every little detail in a call). 

Good luck with that, I suppose. I don't know about your reps, but my council member may probably not be too helpful on this. Dudes been spending more time posturing as an 'anti-woke' Dem and on stuff like 'back the blue' , instead of actually helping deliver material benefits to the district (dudes the only person I know who went from a Sanders supporter, to that). On transportation he's been particularly terrible, dude's been against every bus lane in the area and has even tried to stop one of them (Fresh Pond Road), hasn't done much on the express bus side, was one of the pols who pushed to close the subways and buses for at least a week (after covid hit), and is apparently pushing to not have bus lane rules in effect citywide on holidays. I don't even think he had a role in the improvements the MTA made on the QM25 in the AM a few years ago (when he's been in office). I haven't seen him ever talk about it nor take some credit for it.

I'm obviously extremely thrilled to be represented by such a person .

HAHAHA my reps just don't seem to care one way or the other for the most part. The only one who responded to me did so, I believe, because I have communicated with them about other matters recently so we have a relationship of sorts. But even that took a lot of work (calling them out on social media for ignoring my previous emails before that) . Bad press on social media does seem to get their attention quickly. 

I ended up calling two reps this week, spoke with some college intern who didn't know what was flying and said "I will pass this on and we will get back to you". I'm not holding my breath. Sometimes, I've gotten responses weeks and weeks after emailing, but usually radio silence. Sigh. Democracy at work. 

[N6 Limited]

Has anyone attended any of the zoom meetings yet?

[checkmatechamp13]

5 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Has anyone attended any of the zoom meetings yet?

Yes, basically they have a 20-30 minute presentation and then you go into breakout rooms where you can discuss individual routes. But they mainly direct you to submit comments on the Remix map. 

[BrooklynBus]

41 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yes, basically they have a 20-30 minute presentation and then you go into breakout rooms where you can discuss individual routes. But they mainly direct you to submit comments on the Remix map. 

It’s ridiculous that you are not allowed to hear all the comments made at the zoom meeting by having groups of six or so. It’s designed to prevent you from hearing the ideas of others to minimize opposition. 

[Cain]

The Remix map feels like a black hole to me. Why can't we see the other submitter's comments like on other DOT project portals? Also, it is kinda annoying and infuriating that they do not put up the headways and times for each route on the Remix map. A normal and reasonable person would find this rather irritating too and would likely give up trying.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:34 PM, SubBus said:

If they were to get rid of the speed bumps on 225th, then the  could operate via Merrick and 225th to the Laurelton LIRR station instead of stubbing it at Merrick/Springfield....

I don't think the speed bumps necessarily prevent buses from going down a particular street. I know the QM2 runs down a street with speed bumps, and an S59 tripper runs down another street with speed bumps.

On 4/21/2022 at 12:50 AM, SubBus said:

I figured as much. That's why I said if.  I know it's a good chance of it not happening...

LIRR Laurelton station gets decent usage outside of rush hours.  The maintains its transfer to the and gains a LIRR connection. 

Why not?   I mean the Laurelton station is not too far away.   But it does gives the area another option,  especially going east....

I don't think the Q85 connection is a huge deal considering the Q86 also goes to Green Acres. But yes I do agree the LIRR connection would be beneficial.

On 4/21/2022 at 8:41 PM, Joel Powers said:

If they got rid of that segment to begin with, then I'd imagine that portion of the Q77 wasn't carrying that many passengers.

The bigger issue with the southern portion of the Q77 is that it would duplicate the Q85 & Q111 (for service to Jamaica) and the Q78 (for north-south service). 

On 4/25/2022 at 9:46 PM, BrooklynBus said:

It’s ridiculous that you are not allowed to hear all the comments made at the zoom meeting by having groups of six or so. It’s designed to prevent you from hearing the ideas of others to minimize opposition. 

There weren't many public speakers at the meeting I attended. I'm pretty sure all of the people who were in the main room ended up in the breakout room.

23 hours ago, Cain said:

The Remix map feels like a black hole to me. Why can't we see the other submitter's comments like on other DOT project portals? Also, it is kinda annoying and infuriating that they do not put up the headways and times for each route on the Remix map. A normal and reasonable person would find this rather irritating too and would likely give up trying.

I agree, it would be nice to see the other comments. (Maybe we should just put that as a comment on the Remix map and see if it shows up when they change their mind lol)

[B35 via Church]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:22 AM, Cain said:

The Remix map feels like a black hole to me. Why can't we see the other submitter's comments like on other DOT project portals? Also, it is kinda annoying and infuriating that they do not put up the headways and times for each route on the Remix map. A normal and reasonable person would find this rather irritating too and would likely give up trying.

While minor, this is one reason I keep putting off the rest of my assessment of this draft of the redesign... Quite frankly, I got tired of going back & forth between referring to the PDF for the headways of these routes, and the remix map for the stop locations on the map itself (while the PDF spells out all the stops along a route in text format, the strip map/line map for each route on the PDF does not show the stop locations on them)....

[Cain]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

While minor, this is one reason I keep putting off the rest of my assessment of this draft of the redesign... Quite frankly, I got tired of going back & forth between referring to the PDF for the headways of these routes, and the remix map for the stop locations on the map itself (while the PDF spells out all the stops along a route in text format, the strip map/line map for each route on the PDF does not show the stop locations on them)....

It is disingenuous as a layperson would not find this helpful at all if they need to dig for changes in their commute. The redesign feels like it is literally designed (pun intended) to sneak through. 

[IAlam]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:56 PM, Cain said:

It is disingenuous as a layperson would not find this helpful at all if they need to dig for changes in their commute. The redesign feels like it is literally designed (pun intended) to sneak through. 

 

On 4/27/2022 at 5:05 AM, B35 via Church said:

While minor, this is one reason I keep putting off the rest of my assessment of this draft of the redesign... Quite frankly, I got tired of going back & forth between referring to the PDF for the headways of these routes, and the remix map for the stop locations on the map itself (while the PDF spells out all the stops along a route in text format, the strip map/line map for each route on the PDF does not show the stop locations on them)....

It's reasons like this why most people won't toughly go through the changes if they even look at all. Remix runs like 💩on my laptop even though it has beefy spces. I can't even imagine what it's like on some lower end and mobile devices. At least before the pandemic they we're doing in person outreach at stations and major hubs. Now there's next to nothing unless you're actively looking for it or pay close attention to every ad you see. (Which most people don't.)

Edited April 29, 2022 by IAlam

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:34 PM, SubBus said:

If they were to get rid of the speed bumps on 225th, then the  could operate via Merrick and 225th to the Laurelton LIRR station instead of stubbing it at Merrick/Springfield....

 

I had an alternate idea...

 

stays on Springfield to 147th and ends at JFK Depot where Q78 is shown ending. 

 

  Q78 is merged with Q51 for a Springfield-Linden Crosstown (i.e. two new routes can be new together), with western terminal at Rockaway Blvd station.

 

   continues going to Gateway Center instead of Q51.

[N6 Limited]

On 4/28/2022 at 10:49 PM, IAlam said:

It's reasons like this why most people won't toughly go through the changes if they even look at all. Remix runs like 💩on my laptop even though it has beefy spces. I can't even imagine what it's like on some lower end and mobile devices. At least before the pandemic they we're doing in person outreach at stations and major hubs. Now there's next to nothing unless you're actively looking for it or pay close attention to every ad you see. (Which most people don't.)

It’s not ideal on Mobile/Ipad, you have to use landscape, the list of routes on the left virtually takes up the whole screen in portrait. (I just tested the desktop option on Chrome (Android) and the site actually runs better, (the buttons/toggles and icons become smaller so you can actually see more of the map, and they don’t overlap each other, so they become functional), but you have to switch between portrait and landscape to close the feedback video that automatically pops up, or try to press the slim margin of map that’s visible).

To select the existing routes, you have to tap the drop down like 3 times (or more) for it to open (across devices).

On Ipad, the Safari tab has to keep refreshing every couple of mins or so. Also,fter a little while, panning the map can get interpreted as zooming, so then you’ll have to manually refresh the map for it to behave. So, either it refreshes on it’s own, crashes then “will reload in 5 seconds”, or misbehaves so you’ll have to manually refresh. 

On iPhone you have to reduce the page zoom for the site to become functional.

Also, the site apparently drains the battery quicker.

 

 

 

[IAlam]

Went to one of the put reach meeting yesterday, some key takeaways.

1) Just an interesting justification they made for the Q44 extension was so Bronx Sci kids can more easily connect to the //.   

2) Many people were there we're pissed on the express bus changes which is good as they should be. 

3) Seems like the hottest topics on the local side was Kissena Blvd, Q16/61/62, and College Point access Flushing (Specifically 20th Ave). 

4 The wasted too much time explaining, going over the plan once as a whole and then for the district in a breakout room. Honestly that time could have been better used if they only went over the district as a whole instead of the plan as a whole. People were annoyed that they were featuring routes that were no where near them.
 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Went to one of the put reach meeting yesterday, some key takeaways.

1) Just an interesting justification they made for the Q44 extension was so Bronx Sci kids can more easily connect to the //.   

2) Many people were there we're pissed on the express bus changes which is good as they should be. 

3) Seems like the hottest topics on the local side was Kissena Blvd, Q16/61/62, and College Point access Flushing (Specifically 20th Ave). 

4 The wasted too much time explaining, going over the plan once as a whole and then for the district in a breakout room. Honestly that time could have been better used if they only went over the district as a whole instead of the plan as a whole. People were annoyed that they were featuring routes that were no where near them.
 

That's what they did the with the in-person meetings too. No one wants to go there to talk about routes that they don't use. It's a total waste of time and a way for them to not deal with concerns that riders have about the actual lines that they use.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

39 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Went to one of the put reach meeting yesterday, some key takeaways.

1) Just an interesting justification they made for the Q44 extension was so Bronx Sci kids can more easily connect to the //.   

2) Many people were there we're pissed on the express bus changes which is good as they should be. 

3) Seems like the hottest topics on the local side was Kissena Blvd, Q16/61/62, and College Point access Flushing (Specifically 20th Ave). 

4 The wasted too much time explaining, going over the plan once as a whole and then for the district in a breakout room. Honestly that time could have been better used if they only went over the district as a whole instead of the plan as a whole. People were annoyed that they were featuring routes that were no where near them.
 

Damn, I mixed up the date of that meeting with that of the other one (and I had some comments on the Q16/61/62 as well).

LOL at having Bronx Science kids walk to the from Fordham Plaza. The walk to Grand Concourse doesn't look all that much on a map, but it's is quite a bit of a walk, not to mention that section of Fordham Road is hilly. If anything, the Bx22 would take them directly to/from Fordham Plaza. 

Also, yeah, when there's a bunch of routes (since that meeting encompasses an area with a bunch of routes), it seems kinda drawn out. The presentation about the objectives and goals of the redesign is also pointless, like much of nobody cares lol. They should have first discussed the different types of routes in the area, then move into breakout rooms to be able to take questions and comments. 

Curious to know, at least in your particular breakout room, what was the reception of the Q16/Q61/Q62 (in other words, what type of comments were made)?

Edited May 11, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Damn, I mixed up the date of that meeting with that of the other one (and I had some comments on the Q16/61/62 as well).

LOL at having Bronx Science kids walk to the from Fordham Plaza. The walk to Grand Concourse doesn't look all that much on a map, but it's is quite a bit of a walk, not to mention that section of Fordham Road is hilly. If anything, the Bx22 would take them directly to/from Fordham Plaza. 

Also, yeah, when there's a bunch of routes (since that meeting encompasses an area with a bunch of routes), it seems kinda drawn out. The presentation about the objectives and goals of the redesign is also pointless, like much of nobody cares lol. They should have first discussed the different types of routes in the area, then move into breakout rooms to be able to take questions and comments. 

Curious to know, at least in your particular breakout room, what was the reception of the Q16/Q61/Q62 (in other words, what type of comments were made)?

Just so you know, you can still discuss those routes at other meetings (that's probably why they talk about the plan in general at first). Though what they should probably do is start with the routes in the area, and then offer people a chance to comment for routes outside the area. 

[IAlam]

5 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Damn, I mixed up the date of that meeting with that of the other one (and I had some comments on the Q16/61/62 as well).

LOL at having Bronx Science kids walk to the from Fordham Plaza. The walk to Grand Concourse doesn't look all that much on a map, but it's is quite a bit of a walk, not to mention that section of Fordham Road is hilly. If anything, the Bx22 would take them directly to/from Fordham Plaza. 

Also, yeah, when there's a bunch of routes (since that meeting encompasses an area with a bunch of routes), it seems kinda drawn out. The presentation about the objectives and goals of the redesign is also pointless, like much of nobody cares lol. They should have first discussed the different types of routes in the area, then move into breakout rooms to be able to take questions and comments. 

Curious to know, at least in your particular breakout room, what was the reception of the Q16/Q61/Q62 (in other words, what type of comments were made)?

Mainly people weren't happy about the service hours/span. The complaint was there was no midday service on the Q61 so a senior would now require 2 buses to get to Flushing. Another was on the Q62 being infrequent and the last was Q62 running on a narrow street on Utopia between Crocheron and 33rd Ave. 

Also many people we're complaining about how the the MTA is pushing for congestion pricing and the Green Initiative yet plans on cutting both express and local service on the northern part of NE Queens.

[MrTransitMan]

I was also present yesterday for that workshop. I appreciated the honesty, regarding staff not familiar with the area and that with specifics riders would know more directly which is why more comments were asked for. It also appears it’s not the same staff at each meeting. 

One mentioned, a Flushing to Manhattan Express bus route, I guess it’s been requested for 30 years, and was implemented in the first draft plan, but has since been removed.

i agree with checkmate, as each meeting is for specific areas, it is still open to anyone who may have missed their “own”, I noticed many were upset with that and so yes it makes more sense to tackle the area routes first then the time that is left it would be an open dialogue. 

Is there a way to see any of the other meetings by chance? I was curious about the response for Jackson Heights and Long Island City.