Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Eric B]

Try this one now (don't know how long these things last):

[randomnewyorker23]

Honestly I'm glad the is going to Fordham Plaza even though it is wild but it should work. In general, this is WAY better than the original plan (with al the QT's & QMT's)

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

Honestly I'm glad the is going to Fordham Plaza even though it is wild but it should work. In general, this is WAY better than the original plan (with al the QT's & QMT's)

Hold on there. The plan is just a draft for now. It can and probably will change before it becomes final, and some elements (like Q44 to Fordham Plaza) could end up being "sacrificed" to in favor of more pressing needs.

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Hold on there. The plan is just a draft for now. It can and probably will change before it becomes final, and some elements (like Q44 to Fordham Plaza) could end up being "sacrificed" to in favor of more pressing needs.

Pressing needs or "pressing" needs?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Pressing needs or "pressing" needs?

Either. My point is that the redesign plan is not (yet) written in stone.

[BrooklynBus]

The next revision is the final.

[Theli11]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:49 AM, randomnewyorker23 said:

Honestly I'm glad the is going to Fordham Plaza even though it is wild but it should work. In general, this is WAY better than the original plan (with al the QT's & QMT's)

 

On 6/25/2022 at 7:30 AM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Hold on there. The plan is just a draft for now. It can and probably will change before it becomes final, and some elements (like Q44 to Fordham Plaza) could end up being "sacrificed" to in favor of more pressing needs.

I really hope they don't change the Q44 to Fordham Plaza. It surprising how many buses the Q44 missed because it only went to Bronx Zoo. Sending it to Fordham Plaza connects the Q44 to the Bx12 and Metro North which alone are two great pluses. 

[MTA Dude]

Here's a map of what I would do for the Queens bus redesign. It's not finished yet (so no labels) but hopefully it's enough to understand the details of each route. I recommend downloading the PDF since Google Drive's PDF viewer isn't that good IMO.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O2S3c3NDRbgXfH_oRwAFfIbeSaDuKxXl/view?usp=sharing

A few notes:

• The B62 isn't shown on the map but I would keep it the same as it is now north of Williamsburg, I didn't just leave Jackson Ave with no bus service.
• I have the Q11 going to Forest Hills and the Q21 going to Elmhurst
• No, that is not the Q49 merged with the B57
• Q52 still exists with its current day service pattern
• Flushing, Jamaica, and Rego Park are left blank, and that's because I still need to make separate insets for them. I'll list the routes that go through these hubs; routes not listed terminate within the hub.
• In Jamaica I want Archer Ave to be a full busway between Merrick and Sutphin, instead of what we currently have with Jamaica Ave. All routes except the Q56 currently on Jamaica Ave should be moved to this new busway.

Flushing:

• Q12 - Northern to Kissena Blvds
• Q17 - Sanford Ave to Linden Pl / College Point
• Q19 - straight across Roosevelt as proposed by the MTA
• Q20 - Main St to Mitchell Gardens
• Q25 - Kissena Blvd to Union St
• Q27 - 46 Av to College Point Blvd
• Q44 - Main St to Linden Pl / Whitestone Expy
• Q50 - GCP from LGA, makes a loop around Main, 39 Av, and Prince, then follows Q44 to the Bronx

Jamaica:

• Q6 - Hillside to Sutphin via Archer Ave, similar to what's proposed by the MTA
• Q9 - Utopia Pkwy to 130th St
• Q24 - merged with the Q42
• Q43 - merged with the Q40 running along Hillside Ave
• Q65 - extended past its current terminal to serve Tuskegee Airmen Way and the projects on 160th St
• Q110 - Jamaica Ave to Liberty Ave as proposed by the MTA

Rego Park:

• Q38 - Eliot Ave to 99th St / northern part of current Q23
• Q53 - same as current day
• Q57 - express "SBS" version of Q58, HHE to Eliot Ave
• Q59 - takes over the current Q38 to 108th St
• Q60 - across Queens Blvd

And here's the biggest changes to the Rockaways (taken from an older version of the map I made 2 years ago when the redesign was first released):

https://i.imgur.com/0OJpf2c.png

I'm probably the least confident with what I did with Maspeth. I thought I was doing something by moving the Q67 onto the LIE, but that only produces a significant time savings outside of rush hours when there isn't traffic. The Q18 was added at the last minute because I wanted to maintain access to industrial Maspeth from 69th St, but now I'm probably just overserving that area. And I just don't know what to do with the northern part of the Q103 or southern part of the Q38, since the Q67 is the only one in the area that match their frequencies and I don't like having them as standalone routes.

Edited June 28, 2022 by MTA Dude

[Future ENY OP]

18 hours ago, MTA Dude said:

Here's a map of what I would do for the Queens bus redesign. It's not finished yet (so no labels) but hopefully it's enough to understand the details of each route. I recommend downloading the PDF since Google Drive's PDF viewer isn't that good IMO.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O2S3c3NDRbgXfH_oRwAFfIbeSaDuKxXl/view?usp=sharing

A few notes:

• The B62 isn't shown on the map but I would keep it the same as it is now north of Williamsburg, I didn't just leave Jackson Ave with no bus service.
• I have the Q11 going to Forest Hills and the Q21 going to Elmhurst
• No, that is not the Q49 merged with the B57
• Q52 still exists with its current day service pattern
• Flushing, Jamaica, and Rego Park are left blank, and that's because I still need to make separate insets for them. I'll list the routes that go through these hubs; routes not listed terminate within the hub.
• In Jamaica I want Archer Ave to be a full busway between Merrick and Sutphin, instead of what we currently have with Jamaica Ave. All routes except the Q56 currently on Jamaica Ave should be moved to this new busway.

Flushing:

• Q12 - Northern to Kissena Blvds
• Q17 - Sanford Ave to Linden Pl / College Point
• Q19 - straight across Roosevelt as proposed by the MTA
• Q20 - Main St to Mitchell Gardens
• Q25 - Kissena Blvd to Union St
• Q27 - 46 Av to College Point Blvd
• Q44 - Main St to Linden Pl / Whitestone Expy
• Q50 - GCP from LGA, makes a loop around Main, 39 Av, and Prince, then follows Q44 to the Bronx

Jamaica:

• Q6 - Hillside to Sutphin via Archer Ave, similar to what's proposed by the MTA
• Q9 - Utopia Pkwy to 130th St
• Q24 - merged with the Q42
• Q43 - merged with the Q40 running along Hillside Ave
• Q65 - extended past its current terminal to serve Tuskegee Airmen Way and the projects on 160th St
• Q110 - Jamaica Ave to Liberty Ave as proposed by the MTA

Rego Park:

• Q38 - Eliot Ave to 99th St / northern part of current Q23
• Q53 - same as current day
• Q57 - express "SBS" version of Q58, HHE to Eliot Ave
• Q59 - takes over the current Q38 to 108th St
• Q60 - across Queens Blvd

And here's the biggest changes to the Rockaways (taken from an older version of the map I made 2 years ago when the redesign was first released):

https://i.imgur.com/0OJpf2c.png

I'm probably the least confident with what I did with Maspeth. I thought I was doing something by moving the Q67 onto the LIE, but that only produces a significant time savings outside of rush hours when there isn't traffic. The Q18 was added at the last minute because I wanted to maintain access to industrial Maspeth from 69th St, but now I'm probably just overserving that area. And I just don't know what to do with the northern part of the Q103 or southern part of the Q38, since the Q67 is the only one in the area that match their frequencies and I don't like having them as standalone routes.

The Q24 has no business being merged with any other route whether it’s intraborough (Queens) or interborough (Queens to Brooklyn).  I like that the Q24 is ending at Broadway Junction with the Q56.  However, apart of me thinks that Q24 may retain its stance at Patchen Avenue to connect with the B38. That B53 proposal is simply a B40 (2.0) disaster.  
 

I’d simplify the B32 to Woodside-61 Street to Williamsburg and B24 extension in Sunnyside and end on Northern Boulevard & 48th.  

[BrooklynBus]

The only purpose of the B53 is to eliminate overlapping routes to save money. It makes no sense to creating a route that parallels the el.

[Trainmaster5]

9 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

The only purpose of the B53 is to eliminate overlapping routes to save money. It makes no sense to creating a route that parallels the el.

Although I see your point about the  train the cynic in me leads me to the unmentioned conclusion. How many stations above this B53 are ADA compliant ? It’s always about the money. My take.

[BrooklynBus]

22 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Although I see your point about the  train the cynic in me leads me to the unmentioned conclusion. How many stations above this B53 are ADA compliant ? It’s always about the money. My take.

I am not saying that anyone who takes the bus can also use the subway. I see the need for a bus and train on the same street, but not when they do exactly the same thing. By their logic they should immediately add a bus to McDonald Ave. They won't. Because that is extra service, not a service cut.

[Trainmaster5]

14 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I am not saying that anyone who takes the bus can also use the subway. I see the need for a bus and train on the same street, but not when they do exactly the same thing. By their logic they should immediately add a bus to McDonald Ave. They won't. Because that is extra service, not a service cut.

I’m just thinking that it’s probably cheaper than making a few el stations ADA compliant while cutting service on the existing bus routes along Broadway. Stub end the B46, B15, Q24, et al at Broadway and run this Toonerville trolley service every half hour between Broadway Junction and Bridge Plaza. Cut bus runs and avoid spending money on ADA compliance. Like I said I’m a cynic but I bet the bean counters think that way.

[bobtehpanda]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:31 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Makes no sense quite frankly.

IIRC, the proposal way back when was to build two extra lanes, which would almost certainly involve significant property taking along the entire route (the highway through Queens is super tightly constrained)

Edited June 29, 2022 by bobtehpanda

[MTA Dude]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I am not saying that anyone who takes the bus can also use the subway. I see the need for a bus and train on the same street, but not when they do exactly the same thing. By their logic they should immediately add a bus to McDonald Ave. They won't. Because that is extra service, not a service cut.

Doesn't the B37 do almost exactly the same thing as the ? And the B25 for the  except for a short segment in Dumbo? 

I think the difference between McDonald Ave and Broadway is that the  has very low ridership south of Church Ave and makes all local stops at all times. Broadway has the running skip stop during rush hours and express west of Myrtle in the peak direction, so it's not very good at continuous Broadway service. I would assign the B39 that role instead of merging it with the B32 and B24.

[B35 via Church]

13 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’m just thinking that it’s probably cheaper than making a few el stations ADA compliant while cutting service on the existing bus routes along Broadway. Stub end the B46, B15, Q24, et al at Broadway and run this Toonerville trolley service every half hour between Broadway Junction and Bridge Plaza. Cut bus runs and avoid spending money on ADA compliance. Like I said I’m a cynic but I bet the bean counters think that way.

Quite frankly, I don't believe for a second that the lack of ADA compliant stations along Broadway on the had anything to do with that proposed B53 of theirs.... With the Broadway portion of that proposed route, all they're aiming to do is streamline bus service along it (on the cheap, of course)....

[Trainmaster5]

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite frankly, I don't believe for a second that the lack of ADA compliant stations along Broadway on the had anything to do with that proposed B53 of theirs.... With the Broadway portion of that proposed route, all they're aiming to do is streamline bus service along it (on the cheap, of course)....

You’re probably correct with your observation about the el service but the streamlined service will definitely mean cuts along the existing lines traveling under the  . That’s how they operate. Cuts, discourage ridership, eliminate runs or whole lines and blame it on lack of patronage. My opinion. Carry on.

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

You’re probably correct with your observation about the el service but the streamlined service will definitely mean cuts along the existing lines traveling under the . That’s how they operate. Cuts, discourage ridership, eliminate runs or whole lines and blame it on lack of patronage. My opinion. Carry on.

Observation about the el service? I'm not talking about service at all, I'm talking about bus service....

The point you're making in this particular reply, I've already conveyed in a prior post or two, when it comes to this B53.... AFAIC, the creation of the B46SBS (in its truncation to Dekalb av) kick-started all of this.... Fast-forward to their releasing of this proposed B53, in looking to streamline the B46, B47, and Q24 along Broadway, they're also using this concoction to (half-ass) streamline the B32 & B24.... Considering all of that, I don't believe ADA compliancy on those stations along the el (which is a point you brought up) was a second thought when those planners were in the war room drawing up the route (B53)....

As this proposed B53 relates to the B24, the irony is that it's not the Sunnyside-Greenpoint segment that gets the most ridership, it's the Sunnyside-Williamsburg spur (which they have the proposed Q68 doing).... Similar deal with the portion of the B32 they're using for this B53 - the lion's share of the ridership on the B32 is b/w LIC & Greenpoint, not between Williamsburg & Greenpoint... They're taking the lesser patronized portions of those aforementioned two routes (B24, B32) & appending it to (bus service along) Broadway...

I'll just sum this up by spelling it out.... While I'm highly skeptical of this agency's motives, not even I believe they'd use bus service to supplant not making subway stations ADA compliant..... Whatever they plan on doing (or not doing) when it comes to making those stations ADA compliant, I find, will be completely separate of this, or any other bus network redesign....

Edited July 1, 2022 by B35 via Church

[B35 via Church]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:39 PM, MTA Dude said:

I think the difference between McDonald Ave and Broadway is that the  has very low ridership south of Church Ave and makes all local stops at all times. Broadway has the running skip stop during rush hours and express west of Myrtle in the peak direction, so it's not very good at continuous Broadway service....

The fact of the matter is that Broadway is far more commercial than McDonald av is.... Add to that, the population density in that part of Brooklyn is simply greater (while increasing).... McDonald av is the polar opposite of Broadway - it's dead as shit & population in that part of Brooklyn is declining....

[QM1to6Ave]

I had  B/O on the Q46 today who announced that the Bus Redesign will go into effect in April (she literally announced it over the PA so that "ya'll can do yo homework because them bus stops gonna be changin'). Any one know if there is truth to that? Haven't seen it officially listed anywhere.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

58 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I had  B/O on the Q46 today who announced that the Bus Redesign will go into effect in April (she literally announced it over the PA so that "ya'll can do yo homework because them bus stops gonna be changin'). Any one know if there is truth to that? Haven't seen it officially listed anywhere.

Total BS. There is NOTHING definitive about any implementation. They don't just implement it. It has to be voted on by the Board and they are still taking feedback. Wrong of her to spread misinformation like that.  Spoke with the  by phone today and via e-mail. They are not in any time crunch to get this done. They were aggressively looking to implement the redesigns with the previous lesdership.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

24 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Total BS. There is NOTHING definitive about any implementation. They don't just implement it. It has to be voted on by the Board and they are still taking feedback. Wrong of her to spread misinformation like that.  Spoke with the  by phone today and via e-mail. They are not in any time crunch to get this done. They were aggressively looking to implement the redesigns with the previous lesdership.

HA! This lady seemed kooky, so I am glad to double check her announcement lol

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 Wrong of her to spread misinformation like that.  

 

Coming from a bus operator, it's not merely "misinformation" (an error) — it's disinformation (a lie).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

54 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Coming from a bus operator, it's not merely "misinformation" (an error) — it's disinformation (a lie).

I'll call it misinformation because it may not be intentional. Yesterday it was brought to my attention in my advocacy group that a reporter for the Riverdale Press actually had an article printed on the Bronx Bus Redesign that states that changes are coming to the Bronx Express buses - as many people know, those changes were shelved over a year ago. When I called the paper and spoke with the reporter about the article, she said she had taken the information from a brochure (one that is obviously not reflective of the current situation). What she did not say is if she would have her article pulled (it was printed for those who still get the physical newspaper, but not posted onto their website yet), but that goes to show you how things like that can happen.

I actually spoke to a transit worker union rep. via e-mail some weeks ago about an Op-Ed piece that they released for Queens. The article talks about the proposed service cuts and removal of bus stops. It's very possible that said article made its way around to bus operators in Queens that heard this and next thing you know, this bit about something being implemented next April is added to it and now that gets spread around. 

Now, one of the issues which was discussed last night via a Zoom Town Hall style meeting on the Queens Redesign is that many riders have no idea that this redesign is even proposed. This is also the case for Queens bus operators, so you get one person that tries to make an effort to get the word out, but gets incorrect information... And now you have that spreading...

There is ignorance all around. There was a Queens bus operator that thought the original plan was great. When I pointed out the fact that it would mean that his colleagues would have less work, then he realized it wasn't so good. lol Unfortunately, people sometimes don't get things until it is personalized for them. Now, of course the unions behind the scenes are trying to negotiate with the , but there is only so much that they can do to try to stop certain changes. The push has to come from the riders contacting their elected officials because one of the concerns some unions have is a loss of work and the loss of bus stops discouraging ridership and leading to more service cuts, and again less work for the bus operators. There are quite a few bus lines that could be moved to other depots in Queens that are overseen by different unions and so you have that issue as well... Again meaning less work. I'm not going to go on further because there's also the issue of what is known and what isn't known that should be known that would help the people concerned about potential service cuts. 

There is a huge ADA accessibility issue being raised about the removal of over a thousand bus stops in Queens and that is something a number of people have brought to my attention, especially on the local bus lines. I don't handle local, but I have been speaking with other local advocacy groups about accessibility and how this should be handled from a legal standpoint, but we have this situation with the merging of the QM10 with the QM12 that has a number of commuters very concerned, especially those that are disabled and depend on the bus to get to work and back. These are the sorts of things that you can't see on a map. That said, the overall consensus is that this new plan is much better than the old one, but there are still many many concerns and changes needed. On my end, I am trying to plan a walk-through with some of the commuters on the QM10 soon to see exactly how their commutes would be impacted should they lose their bus stops and have an even longer walk.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Prospect]

On 6/29/2022 at 2:16 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

Although I see your point about the  train the cynic in me leads me to the unmentioned conclusion. How many stations above this B53 are ADA compliant ? It’s always about the money. My take.

The fact that these redesigns space bus stops such a far distance apart reflects that ADA compliance was never a priority to the MTA in the first place. I don't see their vision having anything to do with ADA compliance unfortunately. For a handicapped individual who doesn't live near a major intersection/designated stop, they're ultimately stranded under those conditions. It excludes certain groups, and is not a correct way to go about this. It's a prominent flaw that has to be addressed.