Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'm talking about what I believe they should be doing. I'm well aware of what they're actually doing.

Who said anything about implementing the Queens proposals? I'm talking about continuing the public outreach process.

Didn't sound like it. Either way, with ridership being down over 50% and people unemployed now, a large majority of New Yorkers are not focusing on a bus redesign. The only people talking about this would be bus "enthusiasts". I see nothing wrong with waiting until the pandemic is over and then engaging the public then.

[N6 Limited]

On 12/23/2020 at 1:04 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@N6 Limited Honestly at this point, now that it seems pretty much certain that they'll get bailed out, I see no reason not to start the process again. Obviously there's going to be some general changes in ridership patterns related to the pandemic, but I see no harm in at least trying to address some of the biggest issues from the previous plan and getting ready for another draft.

And honestly the same for The Bronx. I mean at this point, most of the issues with the local plan were addressed, they already said that the express bus plan would be done separately. I say just go for it and see what needs to be tweaked later.

They snuck the bus lanes in on Merrick Blvd

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 12/23/2020 at 1:04 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@N6 Limited Honestly at this point, now that it seems pretty much certain that they'll get bailed out, I see no reason not to start the process again. Obviously there's going to be some general changes in ridership patterns related to the pandemic, but I see no harm in at least trying to address some of the biggest issues from the previous plan and getting ready for another draft.

And honestly the same for The Bronx. I mean at this point, most of the issues with the local plan were addressed, they already said that the express bus plan would be done separately. I say just go for it and see what needs to be tweaked later.

Of course you do since you likely won't be impacted. Travel patterns have changed since the pandemic hit, and some of those patterns aren't going to go away once the pandemic is over. There is too much uncertainty right now to do anything, and I think the  is doing the right thing. They've been accused for years of being tone deaf, and for once they are starting to listen, and they need to because prior to the pandemic, with the exception of a year here and there, bus ridership continues to decline, and that isn't just because of slower trips either. There are other factors at play that are pushing people out of the system, and all of that needs to be looked at.

I don't know how you're viewing this situation, but I'm viewing it as a customer of over 20 years. I've been riding the  going back to when the actually had a surplus, and there are a number of things that have changed and not for the better.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Of course you do since you likely won't be impacted.

Uh....I'm a bus rider...it's a bus redesign...therefore I stand to be impacted (either positively or negatively) just as much as any other bus rider....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Uh....I'm a bus rider...it's a bus redesign...therefore I stand to be impacted (either positively or negatively) just as much as any other bus rider....

You're a bus rider on Staten Island. That's like me telling you to go on ahead with your local home lines because I'm a bus rider. That's ridiculous. Yeah I have lived on Staten Island, but that is YOUR neighborhood, and you likely understand the travel patterns much better than I can for a myriad of reasons. That is my point. The point of these redesigns supposedly is to get riders' feedback and to make the routes in conjunction with the riders, not a OK let's throw this together now during a pandemic so we can get it over with. That is totally irresponsible and NOT customer focused at all. 

 

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Uh....I'm a bus rider...it's a bus redesign...therefore I stand to be impacted (either positively or negatively) just as much as any other bus rider....

I don't care how much years of planning these people have. They don't take these lines every day and they don't live in most of the neighborhoods they are looking at. You can study all the demographics you want, but it is totally different when you live somewhere and use the lines for actual needs versus fanning or taking some occasional trips to check service.

 

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Uh....I'm a bus rider...it's a bus redesign...therefore I stand to be impacted (either positively or negatively) just as much as any other bus rider....

I'll say this also. They really did not gather that much info from some of these meetings. I mean I went to the one in Riverdale to discuss the express bus lines I use, not talk about the friggin' Bx1. Give me a break. That was the ONLY meeting in Riverdale. Everything else was in other neighborhoods. That's another problem. They didn't have enough meetings, and they weren't consistent with the meetings. Some meetings they had express bus riders in but had them talking about local bus lines that they don't even use that often, and totally ignoring their actual travel patterns, and this was true in Queens and the Bronx. Some areas of Queens didn't even have meetings to participate in, so how are they supposed to be making these decisions when they haven't even heard from some communities? Totally ridiculous.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're a bus rider on Staten Island. That's like me telling you to go on ahead with your local home lines because I'm a bus rider. That's ridiculous. Yeah I have lived on Staten Island, but that is YOUR neighborhood, and you likely understand the travel patterns much better than I can for a myriad of reasons. That is my point. The point of these redesigns supposedly is to get riders' feedback and to make the routes in conjunction with the riders, not a OK let's throw this together now during a pandemic so we can get it over with. That is totally irresponsible and NOT customer focused at all. 

OK, so we agree that I would be affected by a bus redesign. That's a start.

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't care how much years of planning these people have. They don't take these lines every day and they don't live in most of the neighborhoods they are looking at. You can study all the demographics you want, but it is totally different when you live somewhere and use the lines for actual needs versus fanning or taking some occasional trips to check service.

The planners live in various neighborhoods all over the city. Washington Heights, Bayside, East New York, and Van Nest just to name a few areas. I'm not sure how you can make the assumption that they never use the bus for personal/commuting purposes (after all, they do get free employee passes). That may very well be true for some of them, but not all of them.

In any case, the passengers may have firsthand experience, but as Andy Byford himself said "the plural of anecdote is not data". Passenger feedback is absolutely helpful for focusing on certain issues (e.g. Maybe a certain stop is needed because of topography issues, maybe certain trips are overcrowded, etc). But it has to be tied in with all the aspects of the data they have (e.g. Overall ridership data, cost per revenue hour of additional service, money available in the budget, etc). 

What I will agree with you on is that there are definitely some planners who are more on-point than others. I asked the one in charge of The Bronx redesign how much they were saving by deadheading the express buses rather than running the reverse-peak service, and she mumbled something about "industry standards", and she seems one of those who is less receptive to feedback in general. In contrast, I was quite pleased with the one handling the Brooklyn redesign. 

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'll say this also. They really did not gather that much info from some of these meetings. I mean I went to the one in Riverdale to discuss the express bus lines I use, not talk about the friggin' Bx1. Give me a break. That was the ONLY meeting in Riverdale. Everything else was in other neighborhoods. That's another problem. They didn't have enough meetings, and they weren't consistent with the meetings. Some meetings they had express bus riders in but had them talking about local bus lines that they don't even use that often, and totally ignoring their actual travel patterns, and this was true in Queens and the Bronx. Some areas of Queens didn't even have meetings to participate in, so how are they supposed to be making these decisions when they haven't even heard from some communities? Totally ridiculous.

Simple. Have them online. That's how everything else is nowadays (including the redesign going on down in Miami...you can send your suggestions online and they'll schedule a one-on-one Zoom call to discuss your ideas/concerns...works like a charm).

And closer to home, Bee Line (Westchester) and NJ Transit (Newark) are having redesigns. Hopefully at some point, those include some Zoom meetings or some method where the passengers can interact with the planners.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

OK, so we agree that I would be affected by a bus redesign. That's a start.

The planners live in various neighborhoods all over the city. Washington Heights, Bayside, East New York, and Van Nest just to name a few areas. I'm not sure how you can make the assumption that they never use the bus for personal/commuting purposes (after all, they do get free employee passes). That may very well be true for some of them, but not all of them.

In any case, the passengers may have firsthand experience, but as Andy Byford himself said "the plural of anecdote is not data". Passenger feedback is absolutely helpful for focusing on certain issues (e.g. Maybe a certain stop is needed because of topography issues, maybe certain trips are overcrowded, etc). But it has to be tied in with all the aspects of the data they have (e.g. Overall ridership data, cost per revenue hour of additional service, money available in the budget, etc). 

What I will agree with you on is that there are definitely some planners who are more on-point than others. I asked the one in charge of The Bronx redesign how much they were saving by deadheading the express buses rather than running the reverse-peak service, and she mumbled something about "industry standards", and she seems one of those who is less receptive to feedback in general. In contrast, I was quite pleased with the one handling the Brooklyn redesign. 

Simple. Have them online. That's how everything else is nowadays (including the redesign going on down in Miami...you can send your suggestions online and they'll schedule a one-on-one Zoom call to discuss your ideas/concerns...works like a charm).

And closer to home, Bee Line (Westchester) and NJ Transit (Newark) are having redesigns. Hopefully at some point, those include some Zoom meetings or some method where the passengers can interact with the planners.

And what about people who are not tech saavy or lack internet? If we're talking about local bus riders, there are plenty of them in that category. It's a known fact that you have elderly people like this and others. Local bus riders are the poorest when talking about demographics, and those are the people that need the buses the most. 
There are quite a few express bus riders in my group that are not tech savvy as well, so those people should have an opportunity to participate in what is supposed to be a "public event". This is a redesign, and right now, in the middle of a pandemic, when people are worried about their livelihoods and their health, this is the not the time to pushing changes to bus lines. It's just tacky and heartless for a public agency to do something like that. Numerous neighborhoods in Queens have spoken along with the elected officials. The plan as is is not acceptable, and numerous neighborhoods had no opportunity to have in-person meetings to discuss their concerns. The turnouts at these in-person events were highly attended, so obviously people want to have a say in how these buses run in their neighborhoods. 

I think in-person meetings are better to ensure everyone has a chance to voice their opinions, and there should not just be one meeting where people are talking about lines that they don't even use. Defeats the purpose of getting feedback.

The planners may live all over the City, but again, only so many lines are their home lines, and their knowledge of them is not going to be off the charts strong across the system. They should be relying on feedback from the riders. In my neighborhood, if they knew the lines so well, they would've NEVER proposed removing the BxM2 Mount Sinai stops and the other ones along 5th and Madison for the sake of saving a few minutes. We have so many people that work at that hospital (doctors, RNs, etc.) and many people that have doctors' appointments at that hospital. One of them promises was to keep access to important places like hospitals, yet Mount Sinai, which is a huge BxM2 stop was just sacrificed. I met with the planners about all of Bronx express bus lines before the Emergency Town Hall meeting that my Assemblyman called, and they just didn't get it despite my objections and telling them that people would be pissed about losing that stop. Well when they arrived to the Town Hall meeting to see all of the angry people in my community (hundreds of them), then they got it.
This is the service that the communities need, and they need to be listening to their riding public, and not just making arbitrary decisions to try to save a few bucks.

The Queens changes in some cases are WORSE than the Bronx ones. They want to cut off service to the people that live the furthest away from the subways, which is what they propose with the limited QM5 and QM6 service east of Fresh Meadows. Just a disaster. They need to start over because their ideas seems to be from left field and many of them make absolutely no sense.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

@Via Garibaldi 8 Who said anything about "Just one meeting"?

All I'm saying is I'd like to see how much of the feedback from the last time was considered. Nothing has to be implemented...nothing even has to be finalized...but it would be nice to know right offhand if they agree with restoring/maintaining the Q53, or the reverse-peak express bus service in The Bronx, or a bus route on 65th Place, or any of the other major complaints with the proposals. At least then people would know what to focus on in terms of what service needs to be restored/maintained.

As for this whole "worried about their livelihoods and their health" everybody has their own situation. Some are working more due to the pandemic and have less free time. Others are working less (or not at all) due to the pandemic and have more free time (or they have more free time as a result of work-from-home saving them some commuting time).

By that logic we shouldn't be having any community board meetings or civic association meetings. No matter what the situation is, you will always have people who can't attend for one reason or another (whether reasonable or not). You saw how it was with all the different meetings...you had people who claim they couldn't make the public meetings that finished at 8pm or 8:30pm...you had people who couldn't make the board meetings at 9:30am...I'm sure if you had it on a weekend you'd have people who couldn't make it then as well...if you bend over backwards to try and please every last person, you'll never be able to do anything.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 Who said anything about "Just one meeting"?

All I'm saying is I'd like to see how much of the feedback from the last time was considered. Nothing has to be implemented...nothing even has to be finalized...but it would be nice to know right offhand if they agree with restoring/maintaining the Q53, or the reverse-peak express bus service in The Bronx, or a bus route on 65th Place, or any of the other major complaints with the proposals. At least then people would know what to focus on in terms of what service needs to be restored/maintained.

As for this whole "worried about their livelihoods and their health" everybody has their own situation. Some are working more due to the pandemic and have less free time. Others are working less (or not at all) due to the pandemic and have more free time (or they have more free time as a result of work-from-home saving them some commuting time).

By that logic we shouldn't be having any community board meetings or civic association meetings. No matter what the situation is, you will always have people who can't attend for one reason or another (whether reasonable or not). You saw how it was with all the different meetings...you had people who claim they couldn't make the public meetings that finished at 8pm or 8:30pm...you had people who couldn't make the board meetings at 9:30am...I'm sure if you had it on a weekend you'd have people who couldn't make it then as well...if you bend over backwards to try and please every last person, you'll never be able to do anything.

There are some areas that had ONE meeting where they were not allowed to discuss the lines they use or NONE at all. The agreement the  committed to after the negative feedback they received from a number of neighborhoods about the fact that they didn't have a chance to participate was they wouldn't do anything until they heard from everyone, and since they made that agreement, they should stick to it. In other words, each area impacted would get a meeting where they could participate. If this is supposed to be about the riders, then the riders in all areas of the City should have a chance to participate if they so please, and if they have held no meetings or held meetings where they outright refused to discuss the lines that people used, that is not exactly transparent. Not sure what you don't get about that. That's a very reasonable thing to request.

You said it yourself. Travel patterns are not the same now because of the pandemic, so what is the rush to do anything now? The other thing is some of these lines are fine as is and really don't need to be changed. It isn't the line that's the problem. They should focus on other things plaguing the lines like pushing for more bus lanes or HOV lanes. If we're talking about the Bronx express buses for example, they already make very few stops and were redesigned not that long ago, so most are already streamlined. The issues plaguing them aren't being addressed, and removing even more stops won't solve the problem. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There are some areas that had ONE meeting where they were not allowed to discuss the lines they use or NONE at all. The agreement the  committed to after the negative feedback they received from a number of neighborhoods about the fact that they didn't have a chance to participate was they wouldn't do anything until they heard from everyone, and since they made that agreement, they should stick to it. In other words, each area impacted would get a meeting where they could participate. If this is supposed to be about the riders, then the riders in all areas of the City should have a chance to participate if they so please, and if they have held no meetings or held meetings where they outright refused to discuss the lines that people used, that is not exactly transparent. Not sure what you don't get about that. That's a very reasonable thing to request.

You said it yourself. Travel patterns are not the same now because of the pandemic, so what is the rush to do anything now? The other thing is some of these lines are fine as is and really don't need to be changed. It isn't the line that's the problem. They should focus on other things plaguing the lines like pushing for more bus lanes or HOV lanes. If we're talking about the Bronx express buses for example, they already make very few stops and were redesigned not that long ago, so most are already streamlined. The issues plaguing them aren't being addressed, and removing even more stops won't solve the problem. 

Can't get much more "participatory" than a one-on-one Zoom meeting. 

And yeah, travel patterns have changed, but there's going to be some routing improvements that need to take place regardless. Out on Staten Island, there's plenty of areas that lack local bus coverage (or have weekday-only bus coverage). The need for routes that travel between Staten Island and NJ has been a longstanding issue. The precise number of people who would benefit is obviously in question, but there is definitely a need (that was literally the most common comment during the original redesign). Another big issue is the lack of connections to Brooklyn (only 3 routes and one of them is weekday-only). For the other boroughs, the same issue applies (for example, a few blocks from my office is a complete tangle of buses at Queensboro Plaza, while other surrounding stations don't have sufficient service). 

The point of keeping the process moving is so that once things actually do settle down, you're further along in the process and can implement these changes quicker. (Remember that everything is sequenced....they want to do The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Staten Island local in that order...if they can work out more of the issues with The Bronx & Queens redesigns, they can progress to the other boroughs that much sooner). Again, I'm not saying the process should be rushed, but whatever can be done during the pandemic (even if it just a small portion) should be done.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Can't get much more "participatory" than a one-on-one Zoom meeting. 

And yeah, travel patterns have changed, but there's going to be some routing improvements that need to take place regardless. Out on Staten Island, there's plenty of areas that lack local bus coverage (or have weekday-only bus coverage). The need for routes that travel between Staten Island and NJ has been a longstanding issue. The precise number of people who would benefit is obviously in question, but there is definitely a need (that was literally the most common comment during the original redesign). Another big issue is the lack of connections to Brooklyn (only 3 routes and one of them is weekday-only). For the other boroughs, the same issue applies (for example, a few blocks from my office is a complete tangle of buses at Queensboro Plaza, while other surrounding stations don't have sufficient service). 

The point of keeping the process moving is so that once things actually do settle down, you're further along in the process and can implement these changes quicker. (Remember that everything is sequenced....they want to do The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Staten Island local in that order...if they can work out more of the issues with The Bronx & Queens redesigns, they can progress to the other boroughs that much sooner). Again, I'm not saying the process should be rushed, but whatever can be done during the pandemic (even if it just a small portion) should be done.

It sure seems like you want them to rush along. They promised in-person meetings, not meetings on Zoom. If you were proposing this for express bus commuters, I would say that most of them have internet at home, with some exceptions such as some seniors, but if we're talking about local bus riders, it's a known fact that local bus riders generally tend to be the poorest commuter group, and some people that would be impacted may not have internet at home. I guess you don't follow the news, but this has been discussed quite a bit in the media, that is the class divide about who is using Zoom and who can't. I was actually participating in a Zoom meeting a few weeks ago, and some lady from my neighborhood started chastising everyone in the meeting saying how we were all "privileged" because we had the luxury to be on Zoom and to work from home and participate, but that people in poor neighborhoods couldn't do such things. I didn't give it much thought to be honest previously, but she's right in a way. I have FiOS 1GB internet here at home, so I can attend such meetings with no problem, but there is a sizable amount of poor New Yorkers that don't have internet at home, so in this case, the poorest New Yorkers who depend on the local buses the most could perhaps be unable to participate if the  followed your suggestion.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Mtatransit]

It is my opinion that most commuters simply are ignorant to the fact or don't care until the routes changes are right around the corner, or on the first day of route change

[bobtehpanda]

48 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

It is my opinion that most commuters simply are ignorant to the fact or don't care until the routes changes are right around the corner, or on the first day of route change

It's because traditionally, the MTA schedules public meetings on a weeknight at some non-central location, and there's maybe one paper sign on some buses telling you where it is.

[checkmatechamp13]

31 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It sure seems like you want them to rush along. They promised in-person meetings, not meetings on Zoom. If you were proposing this for express bus commuters, I would say that most of them have internet at home, with some exceptions such as some seniors, but if we're talking about local bus riders, it's a known fact that local bus riders generally tend to be the poorest commuter group, and some people that would be impacted may not have internet at home. I guess you don't follow the news, but this has been discussed quite a bit in the media, that is the class divide about who is using Zoom and who can't. I was actually participating in a Zoom meeting a few weeks ago, and some lady from my neighborhood started chastising everyone in the meeting saying how we were all "privileged" because we had the luxury to be on Zoom and to work from home and participate, but that people in poor neighborhoods couldn't do such things. I didn't give it much thought to be honest previously, but she's right in a way. I have FiOS 1GB internet here at home, so I can attend such meetings with no problem, but there is a sizable amount of poor New Yorkers that don't have internet at home, so in this case, the poorest New Yorkers who depend on the local buses the most could perhaps be unable to participate if the  followed your suggestion.

Yeah, and that was at a time when they thought the pandemic was going to last a few weeks, not a year or more. 

As for this whole "class divide"...I didn't have a smartphone until the end of 2018, and I didn't put Internet on that smartphone until 2020...so miss me with that...and there's also a program that provides free cell phones and data/service for low-income people: https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02961

In any case, you can have all the in-person meetings you want...it doesn't mean much if the people don't attend. When the Bronx bus redesign was still active, I went to the one on Burnside Avenue, the one in Soundview, and the one in West Harlem (the M100/Bx15 pass near there, so it serves Bronx Division routes even though it's not in The Bronx). None of those were particularly well-attended. You even said yourself that you went to one in Soundview when they were first proposing the ferry and it was empty. Obviously, some had much better attendance (The one in Pelham Bay that I met you at, the one in Jamaica, the one in Ridgewood, etc), and those tend to be in more middle-class areas.

Which comes back to the point that, out of the ones that had good attendance, a significant amount found out through social media (often through Facebook groups such as yours). And if not through social media, then through other community groups (e.g. community boards, civic associations, etc). So if somebody is inclined to get involved, they will find a way to get involved. I mean remember the 2018 fare hike hearing....it was pretty crowded but 95% of the people were from Filippa's group...if they have social media, it stands to reason that they have some method of connecting to the Internet.

18 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's because traditionally, the MTA schedules public meetings on a weeknight at some non-central location, and there's maybe one paper sign on some buses telling you where it is.

I don't think it's just because of that. All the technical talk of routes and bus stops and schedules...the average commuter doesn't care until it directly impacts them....

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

It is my opinion that most commuters simply are ignorant to the fact or don't care until the routes changes are right around the corner, or on the first day of route change

Many of those people refuse to pay the fare, shows how much they value the quality of service provided to them, what's new...

3 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't think it's just because of that. All the technical talk of routes and bus stops and schedules...the average commuter doesn't care until it directly impacts them....

Also this. The average bus rider IMO feels the effect of changes (riding the buses) far more than when they are described in terms of adding/removing stops, adjusting schedules, etc. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's because traditionally, the MTA schedules public meetings on a weeknight at some non-central location, and there's maybe one paper sign on some buses telling you where it is.

 

Never mind all those notices in local newspapers and through elected officials, or the fact that comments are accepted in writing or on the web site.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yeah, and that was at a time when they thought the pandemic was going to last a few weeks, not a year or more. 

As for this whole "class divide"...I didn't have a smartphone until the end of 2018, and I didn't put Internet on that smartphone until 2020...so miss me with that...and there's also a program that provides free cell phones and data/service for low-income people: https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02961

In any case, you can have all the in-person meetings you want...it doesn't mean much if the people don't attend. When the Bronx bus redesign was still active, I went to the one on Burnside Avenue, the one in Soundview, and the one in West Harlem (the M100/Bx15 pass near there, so it serves Bronx Division routes even though it's not in The Bronx). None of those were particularly well-attended. You even said yourself that you went to one in Soundview when they were first proposing the ferry and it was empty. Obviously, some had much better attendance (The one in Pelham Bay that I met you at, the one in Jamaica, the one in Ridgewood, etc), and those tend to be in more middle-class areas.

Which comes back to the point that, out of the ones that had good attendance, a significant amount found out through social media (often through Facebook groups such as yours). And if not through social media, then through other community groups (e.g. community boards, civic associations, etc). So if somebody is inclined to get involved, they will find a way to get involved. I mean remember the 2018 fare hike hearing....it was pretty crowded but 95% of the people were from Filippa's group...if they have social media, it stands to reason that they have some method of connecting to the Internet.

You are just making my point regarding how many New Yorkers can't afford internet or cell phone service, and that would be an argument that I'm sure would come up, which is people like myself could attend such meetings, but poor folks without internet or cell service would likely be shut out.

That Ferry meeting in Soundview was not well advertised to be honest (I was involved to some extent in preparing for that meeting for work), but what was most important is that the few people that did attend were mainly elected officials, who spoke on behalf of their constituents, so ultimately there was some form of advocacy for the immediate neighborhood that would be impacted by this, and the Ferry has been very popular since the service started. Mind you, it was held in the middle of the Sotomayor Housing Projects, where I would imagine most people had no idea what was going on. That was the impression I got when I walked over from the express bus and arrived at the location.

Regardless though, the point is that the  is a public agency, and they need to provide people with an opportunity to have their say, and that means everyone. If they don't show up, fine, but they should follow through with their promise to hold in-person meetings to the areas that requested them because the  provided none.  If anything, the Zoom meetings could be done in addition to in-person meetings.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[bobtehpanda]

7 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Never mind all those notices in local newspapers and through elected officials, or the fact that comments are accepted in writing or on the web site.

You have to know the changes are occurring to even make comments. I certainly don't go about my normal daily routine checking mta.info.

As far as newspapers, are you talking about that industry that has been in terminal decline and declining circulation numbers for the past two decades? The ones with decimated local desks and newsrooms?

And as far as local officials, you say that like they're super transparent about things. The last I checked during the last election cycle for my districts when I lived in New York, most of the people were running unopposed with no website to speak of.

[bobtehpanda]

16 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't think it's just because of that. All the technical talk of routes and bus stops and schedules...the average commuter doesn't care until it directly impacts them....

I don't find it particularly surprising that most people don't care for or speak "bean-counter."

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You are just making my point regarding how many New Yorkers can't afford internet or cell phone service, and that would be an argument that I'm sure would come up, which is people like myself could attend such meetings, but poor folks without internet or cell service would likely be shut out.

Regardless though, the point is that the  is a public agency, and they need to provide people with an opportunity to have their say, and that means everyone. If they don't show up, fine, but they should follow through with their promise to hold in-person meetings to the areas that requested them because the  provided none.  If anything, the Zoom meetings could be done in addition to in-person meetings.

Like I said, if you can't afford Internet and/or cell service, there are programs that give you free Internet and/or cell service.

And in any case, that's literally what I said. Hold some Zoom meetings in the meantime so that when the time comes to resume in-person meetings, you've progressed that much further and can present a better draft proposal.

[Lawrence St]

In the craziness of last year, I've completely forgotten what everyone's response to the draft plan was. Can some recap the route changes and what the overall feedback for them was?

[B35 via Church]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:24 PM, Mtatransit said:

It is my opinion that most commuters simply are ignorant to the fact or don't care until the routes changes are right around the corner, or on the first day of route change

Yep, and it says more about the MTA than it does the very people that their services are supposed to be benefiting too..... This is what "we-do-what-we-want-ism" yields.

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

In the craziness of last year, I've completely forgotten what everyone's response to the draft plan was. Can some recap the route changes and what the overall feedback for them was?

Here's the page with the draft plan info: https://new.mta.info/queensbusredesign The interactive maps have the proposals.

The response...I mean overall it wasn't particularly well-received (although there were some positive comments as well). Major complaints were the proposed structuring of the routes in Jackson Heights, the span reductions on express bus routes (and span reductions in general), the elimination of the Q53, and the combination of the Q10 & Q64. Some positives were generally better interborough connections and straighter routes in general.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Like I said, if you can't afford Internet and/or cell service, there are programs that give you free Internet and/or cell service.

And in any case, that's literally what I said. Hold some Zoom meetings in the meantime so that when the time comes to resume in-person meetings, you've progressed that much further and can present a better draft proposal.

Irrelevant either way, since they are not doing anything until the pandemic is over. You'll have to live with it and your selfish wants.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Irrelevant either way, since they are not doing anything until the pandemic is over. You'll have to live with it and your selfish wants.

I mean, its not being selfish. It would make sense to do a redesign now while ridership is low so when the pandemic is over, people will have already been familiar with the new bus network system.