Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Q43LTD]

The Q19 going to Manhattan will suffer the same fate as the M35 going to Astoria. 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

The Q19 going to Manhattan will suffer the same fate as the M35 going to Astoria. 

That sounds like the sexy thing to say, but I don't agree with it... I'll explain.

Problem with the old M35 having went to Astoria was that those buses were often empty; it didn't run deep enough into Queens.... As much as I disagree with actually extending Q19's to Manhattan, those buses would not be empty.... In other words, there is a demand from Manhattan on the M60 completely separate of transporting people to the airport... One that's quite noticeable to me at least, is ppl. getting off EB M60's at that stop on 94th... That xfer scenario b/w M60's & Q72's is the most underrated aspect of the M60.... It's not as potent as M60 usage at Steinway st, but it's still apparent enough..... To sum it up, people would use buses interchangeably from 125th/Lex... Where I disagree with @Lawrence St's proposal is the actual need to create that dynamic (having M60's & Q19's being interborough routes in an attempt to make the M60 faster).....

If the MTA were to adopt his proposal, they would use the Q19's extension to justify decreasing service on the M60.... That is their M.O.

Edited February 20, 2021 by B35 via Church

[QM1to6Ave]

What was the plan for the X63/64/68 in the redesign? I've been taking those buses more often recently, but I get on/off at the first stop in Manhattan. I was looking at the routing, and it is insane...to get from the first stop in Manhattan on 37th and 3rd to the last stop at 23rd and 1st, you take a crazy meandering route across all of Midtown. In pre-pandemic times, I can't even imagine how long that would take with even moderate holiday traffic, for example. Who in their right mind would stay on that bus all the way to the last stop?? It would be faster to get off at the first stop and either walk or take on of the Manhattan locals to your destination in East Midtown. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

What was the plan for the X63/64/68 in the redesign? I've been taking those buses more often recently, but I get on/off at the first stop in Manhattan. I was looking at the routing, and it is insane...to get from the first stop in Manhattan on 37th and 3rd to the last stop at 23rd and 1st, you take a crazy meandering route across all of Midtown. In pre-pandemic times, I can't even imagine how long that would take with even moderate holiday traffic, for example. Who in their right mind would stay on that bus all the way to the last stop?? It would be faster to get off at the first stop and either walk or take on of the Manhattan locals to your destination in East Midtown. 

The problem is two different ridership bases, so they have them loop around given how the Queens express buses come into Manhattan. You can't cut the service from the hospitals because that's where a chunk of the ridership base comes from, and they know that. Then you have the people that work in the Central Business District, which is traditionally where express buses get their ridership from, so the bus would have to loop one way or another. It could perhaps follow something similar to what the QM21 does, which actually has an unofficial stop by 34th and  2nd because of all of the hospital workers, then come down to 23rd and Madison and loop around that way, this way it just stops on Madison and those on 5th or west can walk and vice versa on the East Side. There are people that do take it and loop around on 5th, but again, I would just run it similar to the current QM21, since Madison is just a block away from 5th. You can walk from Madison to 5th or 6th if need be.

I think the other proposals are a mess for these lines, as the QM21 is eliminated and combined with one of these lines, and it doesn't really do the job. They tried putting in Downtown service in the proposal and tried to do this very quick pick-up segment. You can do that with Staten Island and Northeast Queens because there is a sizable Downtown white collar type that will use those express buses, as you know with the QM7 and QM8, but you don't have that same level of demand for such buses in other areas, so the catchment area would be too small, and it would be a waste of resources as is.

I told the  you are not going to design you way around congestion, which is the reason for some of these proposals. Congestion is everywhere. They should be working with the DOT for more bus lanes, which would alleviate some of the problems. Just an example of the  not knowing enough about its ridership base.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

@QM1to6Ave The X68 was split into the QMT117 (across 34th to Hudson Yards) and QMT157 (to 57th & 3rd via 34th & Madison)

The X63/QM21 were combined into one route (QMT156 to 57th & 3rd via 34th & Madison). You can think of it as extending the QM21 to Rosedale, or diverting the X63 via Rochdale Village.

The X64 (QMT116) was rerouted across 34th to Hudson Yards. It was also routed to run straight across Linden Blvd instead of Liberty Avenue, and had a slight extension a few blocks into Elmont.

Also, the QMT106 serves a small portion of the X68 service area and runs Downtown. The QMT107 is basically the QM21 rerouted Downtown. Both of those routes would run via the Williamsburg Bridge.

I would have the Downtown routes run via the FDR Drive like they do now. Just get out of the tunnel and run down 2nd Avenue and 23rd Street and get on the FDR that way (add stops at 34th & 2nd and 23rd & 1st). Either that or just keep it as-is along 34th and add a stop at 1st Avenue (and a similar pattern going northbound). There's your East Side hospital service right there.

[QM1to6Ave]

18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The problem is two different ridership bases, so they have them loop around given how the Queens express buses come into Manhattan. You can't cut the service from the hospitals because that's where a chunk of the ridership base comes from, and they know that. Then you have the people that work in the Central Business District, which is traditionally where express buses get their ridership from, so the bus would have to loop one way or another. It could perhaps follow something similar to what the QM21 does, which actually has an unofficial stop by 34th and  2nd because of all of the hospital workers, then come down to 23rd and Madison and loop around that way, this way it just stops on Madison and those on 5th or west can walk and vice versa on the East Side. There are people that do take it and loop around on 5th, but again, I would just run it similar to the current QM21, since Madison is just a block away from 5th. You can walk from Madison to 5th or 6th if need be.

I think the other proposals are a mess for these lines, as the QM21 is eliminated and combined with one of these lines, and it doesn't really do the job. They tried putting in Downtown service in the proposal and tried to do this very quick pick-up segment. You can do that with Staten Island and Northeast Queens because there is a sizable Downtown white collar type that will use those express buses, as you know with the QM7 and QM8, but you don't have that same level of demand for such buses in other areas, so the catchment area would be too small, and it would be a waste of resources as is.

I told the  you are not going to design you way around congestion, which is the reason for some of these proposals. Congestion is everywhere. They should be working with the DOT for more bus lanes, which would alleviate some of the problems. Just an example of the  not knowing enough about its ridership base.

I really like your idea of using the QM21 routing as a template. That is a much more reasonable routing than the nonsense they are suggesting

[QM1to6Ave]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@QM1to6Ave The X68 was split into the QMT117 (across 34th to Hudson Yards) and QMT157 (to 57th & 3rd via 34th & Madison)

The X63/QM21 were combined into one route (QMT156 to 57th & 3rd via 34th & Madison). You can think of it as extending the QM21 to Rosedale, or diverting the X63 via Rochdale Village.

The X64 (QMT116) was rerouted across 34th to Hudson Yards. It was also routed to run straight across Linden Blvd instead of Liberty Avenue, and had a slight extension a few blocks into Elmont.

Also, the QMT106 serves a small portion of the X68 service area and runs Downtown. The QMT107 is basically the QM21 rerouted Downtown. Both of those routes would run via the Williamsburg Bridge.

I would have the Downtown routes run via the FDR Drive like they do now. Just get out of the tunnel and run down 2nd Avenue and 23rd Street and get on the FDR that way (add stops at 34th & 2nd and 23rd & 1st). Either that or just keep it as-is along 34th and add a stop at 1st Avenue (and a similar pattern going northbound). There's your East Side hospital service right there.

I like that idea of adding in a stop or two for the hospital corridor. I'd use that myself if it got instituted! At the height of the pandemic, I caught a QM7 and was the only passenger on it, so the B/O let me off at 34th and 1st since I needed to get to the hospitals over there (there were no QM1/5/6/31/35/36's running that morning so the QM7 was my only bet, and thankfully the B/O let me off since I explained I was working in those hospitals, or I would have had to backtrack from the first downtown stop

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The problem with the express bus routings, beyond what was discussed with the other Midtown/Downtown routes, is that a good chunk of service is being directed now to Hudson Yards. I get that Hudson Yards is set to expand and whatnot, but something tells me all those Hudson Yards services aren't warranted, particularly those basically replace the entire Midtown loops. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

46 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I like that idea of adding in a stop or two for the hospital corridor. I'd use that myself if it got instituted! At the height of the pandemic, I caught a QM7 and was the only passenger on it, so the B/O let me off at 34th and 1st since I needed to get to the hospitals over there (there were no QM1/5/6/31/35/36's running that morning so the QM7 was my only bet, and thankfully the B/O let me off since I explained I was working in those hospitals, or I would have had to backtrack from the first downtown stop

That's what puzzles me about some of these proposals. Some of the Bronx express bus changes weren't terrible, and the chick I dealt with (Jessica Cignarella) despite us butting heads, seemed to propose routings that made sense (in some cases). The Queens express bus redesign is just terrible and poorly thought out. I would leave the QM2/QM20 as is. The idea of having the QM5 and QM6 end their pick-up segment further east than currently isn't the worst idea, BUT, concentrating most of the service in Fresh Meadows is just terrible. I do agree that the QM5 simply does too much, and during peak periods, the QM1 can handle more of the burden, but off-peak, I would extend the QM4 on weekends to serve the Fresh Meadows complex, to allow the QM5 to continue further east. For the people further out in say Glen Oaks, the QM6 is a much faster trip than the QM5, but of course they try to provide coverage and give riders a bus every 30 minutes along the busier parts of Union Turnpike.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The problem with the express bus routings, beyond what was discussed with the other Midtown/Downtown routes, is that a good chunk of service is being directed now to Hudson Yards. I get that Hudson Yards is set to expand and whatnot, but something tells me all those Hudson Yards services aren't warranted, particularly those basically replace the entire Midtown loops. 

I agree, but that was done with the thinking of all of the companies that would move there. Quite a few companies that are clients of ours have moved there, but these are people that have been working from home, and may continue to do so well after the pandemic. I don't think office space in NYC will be the same as it was pre-COVID. Quite a few companies plan on having flexible working options for employees. If they want to work from home (wherever that is) they will let them. If they want to do a mix of the office and work from home, that will be fine too. The Hudson Yards situation is one that currently has a ton of office space, so I don't see the Queens proposals remaining as is after we re-open for sure.

[bobtehpanda]

57 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I agree, but that was done with the thinking of all of the companies that would move there. Quite a few companies that are clients of ours have moved there, but these are people that have been working from home, and may continue to do so well after the pandemic. I don't think office space in NYC will be the same as it was pre-COVID. Quite a few companies plan on having flexible working options for employees. If they want to work from home (wherever that is) they will let them. If they want to do a mix of the office and work from home, that will be fine too. The Hudson Yards situation is one that currently has a ton of office space, so I don't see the Queens proposals remaining as is after we re-open for sure.

I would be pretty optimistic about Hudson Yards, if only because it is some of the newest Class A office space around. It might be less densely packed because an open-office is not going to fly post-COVID, but people are still signing leases.

If anything, I would imagine that companies would be more keen to abandon older office buildings, which are generally less flexible layout wise, have worse problems with elevator congestion and air circulation, etc.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I would be pretty optimistic about Hudson Yards, if only because it is some of the newest Class A office space around. It might be less densely packed because an open-office is not going to fly post-COVID, but people are still signing leases.

If anything, I would imagine that companies would be more keen to abandon older office buildings, which are generally less flexible layout wise, have worse problems with elevator congestion and air circulation, etc.

Quote

The company that built Hudson Yards had said the entire project would be finished in 2024. It no longer offers an estimated completion date.

So much for optimism... lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/06/nyregion/hudson-yards-nyc.html

I'm over there a lot since I'm "working from home". I can do my work just about anywhere, so sometimes I hang out over there. The place is dead. In fact a number of places I was happy to see open over there pre-COVID have closed in terms of eateries and shops. It's a money pit and will likely take even more money from the City for it to be completed.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[bobtehpanda]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

So much for optimism... lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/06/nyregion/hudson-yards-nyc.html

I'm over there a lot since I'm "working from home". I can do my work just about anywhere, so sometimes I hang out over there. The place is dead. In fact a number of places I was happy to see open over there pre-COVID have closed in terms of eateries and shops. It's a money pit and will likely take even more money from the City for it to be completed.

 

It might not be completed but it's already pretty big. Even filling the area up to its current capacity would be bigger employment than most neighborhoods, and the existing buildings are noted in the article as 93% leased.

Eateries and shops aren't doing that well in general, but also personally I was never that enthused by that mall. A lot of people visiting, but not necessarily buying. And don't get me started on the inevitability with a staircase sculpture and the jumping.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

33 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It might not be completed but it's already pretty big. Even filling the area up to its current capacity would be bigger employment than most neighborhoods, and the existing buildings are noted in the article as 93% leased.

Eateries and shops aren't doing that well in general, but also personally I was never that enthused by that mall. A lot of people visiting, but not necessarily buying. And don't get me started on the inevitability with a staircase sculpture and the jumping.

The main challenge with Hudson Yards going forward will be the glut of office space.  I've been working from home now for almost a year, and come into my office here and there when I need to, but work alone, as we remain officially closed.  Today I came in this afternoon, and immediately noticed how many more office workers were out and about getting lunch, etc. (mainly the JP Morgan types, as they have been trying to bring their folks back now for a while), but even as companies bring back employees, there is going to be a glut of commercial space, I mean a ton. I know some companies have signed leases there, but the place is still largely a construction site, and outside of the mall, there's not much open. It's going to be a struggle for them for a while. The place was created with the high-end earners in mind, and those people are either working from home, or left NYC and are working remotely elsewhere. Maybe some of them will come back, but it'll be a while. 

Another issue is there are hardly any eateries open, even where I'm at in Midtown.  Getting coffee and lunch was such a breeze pre-COVID. Now I have to walk around looking for places (the few that haven't closed permanently).

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The problem with the express bus routings, beyond what was discussed with the other Midtown/Downtown routes, is that a good chunk of service is being directed now to Hudson Yards. I get that Hudson Yards is set to expand and whatnot, but something tells me all those Hudson Yards services aren't warranted, particularly those basically replace the entire Midtown loops. 

I think the general idea was to build off those super-express trips that run straight to Queens from 6th & 36th. They figured Hudson Yards was a logical extension for those routes that would justify more than just 1-2 trips in the PM. (The other thing is, I think they want more routes using the QMT straight to the LIE rather than the Queensboro Bridge to Queens Blvd and having to come around Van Dam Street and sit in traffic approaching that entrance from Borden).

The other thing is, they seem to be trying to corridorize the routes in certain areas (in other words, the QMT103/163/164 serving NE Queens with a transfer point at Linden Place/Whitestone Expwy Service Road, the QMT106/116/156 serving SE Queens with transfers available on Linden Blvd). So they figure that if you need the more central parts of Midtown, you'll make your way to something that runs that way (only the eastern portion of the X64 is left without a corresponding "central" Midtown route, and as mentioned, the QMT156 is available in that general portion of Queens)

[Lawrence St]

Would combining the Q33 and Q69 be smart?

[QM1to6Ave]

On 2/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think the general idea was to build off those super-express trips that run straight to Queens from 6th & 36th. They figured Hudson Yards was a logical extension for those routes that would justify more than just 1-2 trips in the PM. (The other thing is, I think they want more routes using the QMT straight to the LIE rather than the Queensboro Bridge to Queens Blvd and having to come around Van Dam Street and sit in traffic approaching that entrance from Borden).

The other thing is, they seem to be trying to corridorize the routes in certain areas (in other words, the QMT103/163/164 serving NE Queens with a transfer point at Linden Place/Whitestone Expwy Service Road, the QMT106/116/156 serving SE Queens with transfers available on Linden Blvd). So they figure that if you need the more central parts of Midtown, you'll make your way to something that runs that way (only the eastern portion of the X64 is left without a corresponding "central" Midtown route, and as mentioned, the QMT156 is available in that general portion of Queens)

If they really want the Hudson Yards idea to take off, they should start advertising that there will be a one-seat ride there from Queens, to attract businesses and passengers alike. The reality, though, is that with the current set up, it really was not a big deal to get over to Hudson yards if you got off the express bus on 36th and 5th and then transferred to the M34 (or even just walked, which I did a number times)

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

If they really want the Hudson Yards idea to take off, they should start advertising that there will be a one-seat ride there from Queens, to attract businesses and passengers alike. The reality, though, is that with the current set up, it really was not a big deal to get over to Hudson yards if you got off the express bus on 36th and 5th and then transferred to the M34 (or even just walked, which I did a number times)

Amplified advertising won't make a bit of difference at this point.... The problem isn't that people en masse are ignorant of Hudson Yards in this city, the problem is that Hudson Yards, for lack of a better phraseology, is overrated as shit.... Fool's gold.... What nobody really tells people about a hype train is that it eventually goes off the rails... After those first couple of mos. or so, when the glorified pine cone (the Vessel) initially opened to the public, Hudson Yards has been off "track" since.... At best, it'll be Battery Park City - midtown edition.

side note: The glorified pine cone is fast developing a reputation for (suicide) jumping..... They closed it yet again this past month.

[R10 2952]

12 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Amplified advertising won't make a bit of difference at this point.... The problem isn't that people en masse are ignorant of Hudson Yards in this city, the problem is that Hudson Yards, for lack of a better phraseology, is overrated as shit.... Fool's gold.... What nobody really tells people about a hype train is that it eventually goes off the rails... After those first couple of mos. or so, when the glorified pine cone (the Vessel) initially opened to the public, Hudson Yards has been off "track" since.... At best, it'll be Battery Park City - midtown edition.

side note: The glorified pine cone is fast developing a reputation for (suicide) jumping..... They closed it yet again this past month.

The whole concept of rezoning/redevelopment that has been going on in the city since at least the Battery Park City era is inherently flawed; it's a series of policies dictated by wealthy real estate interests and predicated on the concept that any area in NYC that still has or had manufacturing/commercial/warehouse activity is by definition, blighted or bad.

They think they can replace every LIC, Far West Side, or Bushwick with overpriced office space for tech-industry yuppies sipping pretentious lattes, but my counterpoint has always been that you can't have flowers without some dirt.  What I mean by that is akin to the bumper stickers I see upstate- 'no farms? no food.'

Hell, the fact that freight used to roll into this city by rail decades ago, but now sits in traffic on the Major Deegan only for retailers to then pass the fuel and labor costs on to consumers, says everything.

[QM1to6Ave]

27 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Amplified advertising won't make a bit of difference at this point.... The problem isn't that people en masse are ignorant of Hudson Yards in this city, the problem is that Hudson Yards, for lack of a better phraseology, is overrated as shit.... Fool's gold.... What nobody really tells people about a hype train is that it eventually goes off the rails... After those first couple of mos. or so, when the glorified pine cone (the Vessel) initially opened to the public, Hudson Yards has been off "track" since.... At best, it'll be Battery Park City - midtown edition.

side note: The glorified pine cone is fast developing a reputation for (suicide) jumping..... They closed it yet again this past month.

I agree about the overrated part...those were the exact words I thought to myself when I first visited it, well before covid, when it was in its "prime ". That said, we have had our share of overrated sites that are shrewdly marketed and become much more popular than they deserve to be. Id consider modern Times Square, for example. I think the right agency, partnered with a smart developer could get that place popular if they latch onto the inevitable post-covid consumer thirst for in-person events. We've had a frickin store devoted to M and Ms in TSQ, so anything is possible in my mind. Maybe I'm overly optimistic lol. 

[paulrivera]

9 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

it really was not a big deal to get over to Hudson yards if you got off the express bus on 36th and 5th and then transferred to the M34

If I were a high earner I wouldn't be waiting 10 minutes for a packed bus. I'd rather take a QMwhatever to 42nd and 6th where I can get a  train that'll show up every couple of minutes, and if the train was knocked out I'd Uber it crosstown.

Those M34 headways are too much past 9th Avenue.

Edited February 27, 2021 by paulrivera

[checkmatechamp13]

17 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

If they really want the Hudson Yards idea to take off, they should start advertising that there will be a one-seat ride there from Queens, to attract businesses and passengers alike. The reality, though, is that with the current set up, it really was not a big deal to get over to Hudson yards if you got off the express bus on 36th and 5th and then transferred to the M34 (or even just walked, which I did a number times)

It would help, but it wouldn't be enough to make or break it. (Remember that the train itself provides a one-seat ride from a good chunk of Queens, so you're really just adding a few random residential neighborhoods/corridors to that mix). There was also supposed to be a route coming from Staten Island (yet to be determined) and The Bronx (BxM18), but those would only serve a limited section of their respective boroughs. The main thing that got Hudson Yards going was the extension itself. (The same way the  helped drive the hype in East Williamsburg/Bushwick). 

The other thing is, pre-pandemic, Hudson Yards was already being hyped up to the point where somebody would say their office was in Hudson Yards, and it turns out it's at 34th & 8th. So if it can bring back that hype somehow, that'll be the deciding factor, and any transportation options that get provided (and advertised) will be icing on the cake.

Edited February 27, 2021 by checkmatechamp13

[bobtehpanda]

37 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The other thing is, pre-pandemic, Hudson Yards was already being hyped up to the point where somebody would say their office was in Hudson Yards, and it turns out it's at 34th & 8th. So if it can bring back that hype somehow, that'll be the deciding factor, and any transportation options that get provided (and advertised) will be icing on the cake.

I mean, I think people will just say that because the Penn Station area does not have the best reputation.

[B35 via Church]

On 2/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think the general idea was to build off those super-express trips that run straight to Queens from 6th & 36th. They figured Hudson Yards was a logical extension for those routes that would justify more than just 1-2 trips in the PM. (The other thing is, I think they want more routes using the QMT straight to the LIE rather than the Queensboro Bridge to Queens Blvd and having to come around Van Dam Street and sit in traffic approaching that entrance from Borden).

I'd say it's not much more than simply having somewhere else to terminate routes other than at 6th/36th.... You should see where some of those peak-only QM's park/layover at during the afternoon hrs. before they start their EB trips... You'll see buses parked at random ass spots in Murray Hill/E. Midtown....

On 2/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, Lawrence St said:

Would combining the Q33 and Q69 be smart?

To a moron and/or a penny-pinching f***, sure !

On 2/27/2021 at 12:18 AM, R10 2952 said:

The whole concept of rezoning/redevelopment that has been going on in the city since at least the Battery Park City era is inherently flawed; it's a series of policies dictated by wealthy real estate interests and predicated on the concept that any area in NYC that still has or had manufacturing/commercial/warehouse activity is by definition, blighted or bad.

They think they can replace every LIC, Far West Side, or Bushwick with overpriced office space for tech-industry yuppies sipping pretentious lattes, but my counterpoint has always been that you can't have flowers without some dirt.  What I mean by that is akin to the bumper stickers I see upstate- 'no farms? no food.'

Hell, the fact that freight used to roll into this city by rail decades ago, but now sits in traffic on the Major Deegan only for retailers to then pass the fuel and labor costs on to consumers, says everything.

Funny thing about greed is that it usually cannibalizes itself.

On 2/27/2021 at 12:28 AM, QM1to6Ave said:

I agree about the overrated part...those were the exact words I thought to myself when I first visited it, well before covid, when it was in its "prime ". That said, we have had our share of overrated sites that are shrewdly marketed and become much more popular than they deserve to be. Id consider modern Times Square, for example. I think the right agency, partnered with a smart developer could get that place popular if they latch onto the inevitable post-covid consumer thirst for in-person events. We've had a frickin store devoted to M and Ms in TSQ, so anything is possible in my mind. Maybe I'm overly optimistic lol. 

While I get your ultimate point, modern TSQ is a rather poor example..... The popularity surrounding modern TSQ stemmed & grew from the popularity it already had prior... In other words, it (modern TSQ's popularity) wasn't exactly organic.... It's the same thing I get somewhat annoyed by when people act like the Brooklyn Nets is a whole new franchise... It's not.... Even though the Brooklyn Nets are way more popular (than the NJ Nets), it didn't exactly start from scratch...

On 2/27/2021 at 11:28 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

...The other thing is, pre-pandemic, Hudson Yards was already being hyped up to the point where somebody would say their office was in Hudson Yards, and it turns out it's at 34th & 8th. So if it can bring back that hype somehow, that'll be the deciding factor, and any transportation options that get provided (and advertised) will be icing on the cake.

Lol.... The initial hype for Hudson Yards was so gargantuan that attempting to recreate that level of hype would likely fall on deaf ears.... There is a LOT of hate for the Hudson Yards project (even surprised me how much of it there is) & I'd say that one of the reasons was due to the sheer hype that surrounded it - considering what it is at its current juncture (albeit still being an unfinished project/product)....

[ItsDavid]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, Lawrence St said:

Would combining the Q33 and Q69 be smart?

Absolutely not. Doing that will confuse people in 23 Av, 82nd St. The matter that the Q69 runs via 21st and Ditmars means that the Q33 after 82nd St and 83 St would become a new route or a route would make it, making many people confused. Its better to keep them seperate...