DeCamp Bus Lines ceasing operations after 150 years

[aemoreira81]

According to a pop-up on their home page, they will end all service at the conclusion of the Friday schedules. DeCamp was in business for 150 years.

I could see the 33 and 66 going to Lakeland, or NJT Wayne, with the 32 and 99 to Meadowlands, but where would the 44 and 88 go?

[B35 via Church]

Quite frankly, I don't see any of those lines getting picked up by other carriers.... Regardless, tough break for those guys.

[553 Bridgeton]

Damn shame. Those lines have zero ridership right now, maybe if things ever pick back up NJT would pick up. 

[go25]

It's a damn shame that they are suspending all services again

[553 Bridgeton]

After reading it’s only a suspension until September. But suspension is not going to help the situation with no money coming in. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

After reading it’s only a suspension until September. But suspension is not going to help the situation with no money coming in. 

My colleague uses that bus from Montclair. He is going to have to scramble to find another way to get into the office once we re-open again. We were just talking about it this morning. No one is using it, so no money coming in.

[Lawrence St]

11 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

After reading it’s only a suspension until September. But suspension is not going to help the situation with no money coming in. 

Someone else said it may be back by September.

I am appalled at how our government system is failing our private bus carriers. They have enough money to bail out Wall St but not private bus lines. It's disappointing.

[553 Bridgeton]

45 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Someone else said it may be back by September.

I am appalled at how our government system is failing our private bus carriers. They have enough money to bail out Wall St but not private bus lines. It's disappointing.

That’s how it always been and always will be. Coach USA Suburban is next, 0 ridership and very limited buses. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Someone else said it may be back by September.

I am appalled at how our government system is failing our private bus carriers. They have enough money to bail out Wall St but not private bus lines. It's disappointing.

What's appalling about it? They can apply for loans like other private businesses.  That's the current plan with Covid.  

[Lawrence St]

23 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What's appalling about it? They can apply for loans like other private businesses.  That's the current plan with Covid.  

I know 3 of my close friends who own charter business's and they were denied the loans for it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I know 3 of my close friends who own charter business's and they were denied the loans for it.

There's no guarantee that anyone is going to get a loan. We don't know what their circumstances were and if they could even meet the requirements for the loans.

[Mtatransit]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What's appalling about it? They can apply for loans like other private businesses.  That's the current plan with Covid.  

Government has been plowing money in our airline industry and Amtrak. I think that private intercity buses which do serve most of the country, should also be eligible for some bailout money from the government

[Via Garibaldi 8]

55 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

Government has been plowing money in our airline industry and Amtrak. I think that private intercity buses which do serve most of the country, should also be eligible for some bailout money from the government

It comes down to how big these companies are. Some companies are deemed "too big to fail" and would cause too much damage to our economy if they ceased to exist - they are major economic engines.  It's not as if this is free money either.  There are plenty of strings attached to these loans. This is technically taxpayer dollars, and the idea is that if government is providing loans that there is a substantial ROI (return on investment), because it is viewed as an investment - both monetary and an investment in our economy. These companies provide lots of jobs, which in turn provides lots of tax revenue for various things.  At the end of the day, it comes down to what I stated above.  You also have to be able to show that you can pay back the money, otherwise, taxpayer dollars are being thrown away. 

In our economic model, government really is not supposed to be getting involved in bailing out private companies unless absolutely necessary.  Amtrak is really the only game in town.  If Amtrak fails, what alternative is there? Losing the airlines is also too big of a loss to swallow, and it becomes a security risk to have certain American airlines taken over by foreigners.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[pkim87]

Rockland Coaches have been suspended as of 4/4 with "hopes of returning in May" but no date in sight for its return.

During the off-peak hours in various times of day, I have never seen more than 15 people on the 11A (that is being generous). Much of the route in NJ overlaps with NJT's 165R (and NJT's monthly pass is cheaper), so it is hard to attract NJ riders.

With many if not all businesses still operating from home (if possible), and companies finding ways to make working at home work, even when things go "back to normal" it may be a new normal (more companies may allow work from home, 2-3 days a week, so workers will no longer need a monthly pass).

The true effects of the pandemic may not be known for months if not years afterwards.

I hope Decamp comes back in one shape or other. We used them twice for charter services and was pleased.

 

[553 Bridgeton]

Those private carriers won’t get loans for the simple fact they are given buses for $1/yr by njt. Had they bought all those buses it would be different but the majority of the fleet is state owned. 

[Mtatransit]

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It comes down to how big these companies are. Some companies are deemed "too big to fail" and would cause too much damage to our economy if they ceased to exist - they are major economic engines.  It's not as if this is free money either.  There are plenty of strings attached to these loans. This is technically taxpayer dollars, and the idea is that if government is providing loans that there is a substantial ROI (return on investment), because it is viewed as an investment - both monetary and an investment in our economy. These companies provide lots of jobs, which in turn provides lots of tax revenue for various things.  At the end of the day, it comes down to what I stated above.  You also have to be able to show that you can pay back the money, otherwise, taxpayer dollars are being thrown away. 

In our economic model, government really is not supposed to be getting involved in bailing out private companies unless absolutely necessary.  Amtrak is really the only game in town.  If Amtrak fails, what alternative is there? Losing the airlines is also too big of a loss to swallow, and it becomes a security risk to have certain American airlines taken over by foreigners.

I do believe that most of the airline bailout funds are grants and only some parts are loans which have to be paid back.

That being said, I do feel like our intercity buses are getting the short end of the stick here. Carriers like Greyhound, and some local trailways buses service rural America and are essentially providing essential service, yet they recieve no funding from the government.  

In my opinion, if a company like greyhound shuts down, our country will be much less accessible without a car.

That being said, DeCamp and those other NJ Private carriers are in a very bad place right now. Charter operations is gone and commuter operations carries air for who knows how long. I don't know how these company will survive this pandemic

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Mtatransit

[Suydam Street]

1 hour ago, pkim87 said:

Rockland Coaches have been suspended as of 4/4 with "hopes of returning in May" but no date in sight for its return.

During the off-peak hours in various times of day, I have never seen more than 15 people on the 11A (that is being generous). Much of the route in NJ overlaps with NJT's 165R (and NJT's monthly pass is cheaper), so it is hard to attract NJ riders.

With many if not all businesses still operating from home (if possible), and companies finding ways to make working at home work, even when things go "back to normal" it may be a new normal (more companies may allow work from home, 2-3 days a week, so workers will no longer need a monthly pass).

The true effects of the pandemic may not be known for months if not years afterwards.

I hope Decamp comes back in one shape or other. We used them twice for charter services and was pleased.

 

 

1 hour ago, pkim87 said:

Rockland Coaches have been suspended as of 4/4 with "hopes of returning in May" but no date in sight for its return.

During the off-peak hours in various times of day, I have never seen more than 15 people on the 11A (that is being generous). Much of the route in NJ overlaps with NJT's 165R (and NJT's monthly pass is cheaper), so it is hard to attract NJ riders.

With many if not all businesses still operating from home (if possible), and companies finding ways to make working at home work, even when things go "back to normal" it may be a new normal (more companies may allow work from home, 2-3 days a week, so workers will no longer need a monthly pass).

The true effects of the pandemic may not be known for months if not years afterwards.

I hope Decamp comes back in one shape or other. We used them twice for charter services and was pleased.

 

The portion of the 11A which serves Rockland County NY  I don’t necessarily think would be greatly affected that much they can drive to the park & ride at palisades center mall and take Hudson Link to Tarrytown and catch Metro-North and the portion which runs in NJ they can use the 165 keep in mind that Rockland is also served by the west of Hudson which includes the Port Jervis & Pascack Valley lines 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I do believe that most of the airline bailout funds are grants and only some parts are loans which have to be paid back.

That being said, I do feel like our intercity buses are getting the short end of the stick here. Carriers like Greyhound, and some local trailways buses service rural America and are essentially providing essential service, yet they recieve no funding from the government.  

In my opinion, if a company like greyhound shuts down, our country will be much less accessible without a car.

That being said, DeCamp and those other NJ Private carriers are in a very bad place right now. Charter operations is gone and commuter operations carries air for who knows how long. I don't know how these company will survive this pandemic

 

And you just stated what the main problem is. Do we bailout these private carriers, which may have no liquidity to pay back the loans they receive? The airlines are in a different situation because they are also liable to shareholders in most cases, so while they are hurting, they can literally burn through cash to stay afloat for a substantial amount of time via furloughs and other cost cutting measures, while holding on to cash reserves and showing investors that they will eventually return to profitability. As publicly traded companies, some of these airlines have access to cash that other companies simply do not have access to, which gives them numerous advantages. 

If you're an investor and you're holding shares of my company, and I can forecast my earnings in the long-term, sure, I may be hurting for the next few fiscal quarters, but if I can show profitability down the line, you are likely to stick it out and wait. Same idea with the government. They will be more willing to lend to a company that will pay them back with interest than a company with little to no liquidity, and no financial plan to return to profitability. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[pkim87]

20 hours ago, Suydam Street said:

 

The portion of the 11A which serves Rockland County NY  I don’t necessarily think would be greatly affected that much they can drive to the park & ride at palisades center mall and take Hudson Link to Tarrytown and catch Metro-North and the portion which runs in NJ they can use the 165 keep in mind that Rockland is also served by the west of Hudson which includes the Port Jervis & Pascack Valley lines 

There are definitely alternative options. Spring Valley is the alternate terminal for 11A, which is also the terminal for the PVL. I just wish the PVL didn't have 2-hour headways on weekends, but unfortunately the ridership does not justify any increase. 

[QM1to6Ave]

There was an NY Times article way back at the beginning of the pandemic that basically predicted that motor coach-based businesses are going to be non-existent when all is said and done. They pointed out that a lot of these companies make a ton of money as charters for college and high school sports teams, and that is another area that is mostly down the toilet. 

[Cait Sith]

12 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

There was an NY Times article way back at the beginning of the pandemic that basically predicted that motor coach-based businesses are going to be non-existent when all is said and done. They pointed out that a lot of these companies make a ton of money as charters for college and high school sports teams, and that is another area that is mostly down the toilet. 

Yup, Suburban has made a lot of money off of their Princeton & New Brunswick line & charter work. They just lost a huge chunk of that work due to Princeton University going to 100% remote learning. If Rutgers goes next, that's basically an even larger chunk of their revenue gone as well.

[46Dover]

A (former) co worker of mine just recently sent a letter to both NJ senators and one (Menendez) wrote back to him to get involved with passing the CERTS (Coronavirus Economic Relief for Transportation Services) Act.  It’s supposed to provide $10 billion in aid for Motorcoaches, School Buses and Ferries.  Back in July 2, it was referred to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee which he isn’t part of.   We will see how this turns out 

Edited August 9, 2020 by 46Dover

[46Dover]

In the meantime, 77 and some of the 190s are honoring DeCamp tickets....

[FamousNYLover]

This from my facebook timeline from DeCampBus Rider:

In the wake of DeCamp's indefinite shutdown with Coach and NJT's cross-honoring, and also of its cause, COVID-19, the subject of commuting certainly has our attention. Therefore I write to ask that you support the re-introduction and ultimate passage of State-Senate bill S2529, which establishes a commuter's bill of rights and an advocate's office for complaints about private bus companies. It was introduced in 2016, but it died in committee. Both pre- and post-DeCamp Bus Lines, we have always needed it! Here it is: https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2016/Bills/S3000/2529_I1.HTM

Yes, I've definitely posted and commented and replied and otherwise written a great deal by now regarding my many issues with DeCamp. Yes, I'm the guy that put together the racous April 2014 public forum, which WBMA-TV still has here (https://videoplayer.telvue.com/.../gmcC3sJ6AGUd.../videos...). But clearly I am neither alone nor recent: a quick look at DeCamp's Facebook page's reviews (https://www.facebook.com/pages/De-Camp-Bus-Lines-Inc/121312207918659), of which I can contribute only one, shows a score of 1.5 out of 5 stars and many more disparaging comments. Also a quick look at DeCamp's main line of communication, @DeCampBusLines on Twitter (https://www.twitter.com/DeCampBusLines) shows largely negative replies to practically their every tweet, which may explain why they send so few, especially when most needed.

For the record I haven't always hated them; I started riding DeCamp in the early 90s, and my first regular driver was none other than the legend, tbe man, the myth, the icon, Mr. High-on-Oregano Rubbery Ducky man himself, the late, great Sal Sciano. But ever since his retirement and passing DeCamp has sadly gone downhill, and now it comes to this, a shutdown notice many still regard as permanent, clumsy and very partial takeover by Coach, and cross-honoring by Coach and NJ Transit.

For decades we riders have put up with Decamp's awful service, from so many late and missing buses to rude drivers and dispatchers to complete lack of communication to by far the worst handling of major events like train power outages, major traffic accidents, heavy rains with floods, etc., of all private bus companies in New York and New Jersey. And we deserve better, far better, because I'm sure I'm not the only one wbo chose to settle in some Essex-County town along a DeCamp route largely because of that route. And you'd think a company with six generations of history would be better too. But it's simply not; it doesn't even meet common-sense-minimal requirements.

But the fact is, such requirements were memorialized and introduced to the NJ State Senate as S2529, which, again, died in committee. However I have recently written to Sen. Ronald Rice, Asm. Ralph Caputo and Asm Cleo Tucker to reintroduce it. So I'm calling on You, dear readers, to help me support re-introduction and passage of this bill. Ofher bus companies like Academy have received many complaints and negative reviews; DeCamp may be the worst, but it is hardly alone. And a decent commute is why most of us live in Essex County, it keeps our property values up, and it eliminates the need to live in NYC to work there.

Please contact these or your State representatives, especially Sens Rice and O'Scanlon, who would physically re-introduce S2529. Here's their information:

[FamousNYLover]

I stop by PABT