Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[pringle5095]

I had a quick thought of actually running it on the Bowery (after Chatham) then to THIRD Avenue….it would then cross over to Second avenue after 60^th st (maybe E 66^th st?).

Third Avenue under 60^th st would give much better connections. So here’s how this version would look:

• Fulton st Complex (A, C, J, 2.3.4.5)

• Chatham Sq

• Delancey st/Bowery

• E. Houston (F via short passageway)

• St.Marks Pl /3^rd Av

• 14^th St

• 23^rd

• 34^th st

• 42^nd st (passageway to Grand Central 4,5,6,7,S)

• 53^rd st (E,M 6)

• 59^th st(N,R,W, 4,5,6)

• 72^nd st (2^nd Av)

• 86^th st

• 96^th st

• 116^th st

• 3^rd Av-149^th st (2,4,5)

For a 3 Av Line South of 60 St, stops would look like this.

 

125 St

121 St

117 St

111 St

105 St

99 St

92 St

86 St

80 St

72 St

65 St

59 St (change for 4,5,6,F,N,Q,R,W)

53 St

47 St

42 St (change for 0,4,5,6,7)

34 St

28 St

23 St

18 St

14 St (change for L)

9 St

Houston St (change for F)

Grand St (change for B,D)

Canal St

Chatham Sq

Pearl St

Fulton St

Hanover Sq

Whitehall St

 

Trains then proceed through tube to Brooklyn, and Astoria line service leaves line at 59 St and uses 60 St Tubes. Express stops are 125, 86, 42, 23 Sts, and all stops from 9 St southwards

 

 

 

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[Around the Horn]

For a 3 Av Line South of 60 St, stops would look like this.

 

125 St

121 St

117 St

111 St

105 St

99 St

92 St

86 St

80 St

72 St

65 St

59 St (change for 4,5,6,F,N,Q,R,W)

53 St

47 St

42 St (change for 0,4,5,6,7)

34 St

28 St

23 St

18 St

14 St (change for L)

9 St

Houston St (change for F)

Grand St (change for B,D)

Canal St

Chatham Sq

Pearl St

Fulton St

Hanover Sq

Whitehall St

 

Trains then proceed through tube to Brooklyn, and Astoria line service leaves line at 59 St and uses 60 St Tubes. Express stops are 125, 86, 42, 23 Sts, and all stops from 9 St southwards

 

 

 

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Way too many stops...

 

The only stops in Manhattan should be:

125 St

116 St

106 St

96 St 

86 St

79 St

72 St

59 St

51 St

42 St

34 St

23 St

14 St

St Marks Place

Houston St

Grand St

Chatham Sq

South St Seaport

Hanover Sq

then to Brooklyn

[Union Tpke]

Way too many stops...

 

The only stops in Manhattan should be:

125 St

116 St

106 St

96 St 

86 St

79 St

72 St

59 St

51 St

42 St

34 St

23 St

14 St

St Marks Place

Houston St

Grand St

Chatham Sq

South St Seaport

Hanover Sq

then to Brooklyn

 

There is no need for a stop at Saint Marks Place or 79th Street. The first phase already has been built, I don't know why you wrote that. The 86th Street station has an entrance at 83rd.

 

The Houston Street station will stretch to 3rd Street while the 14th Street station will stretch to 11th. I think that it would be quite unnecessary to have a stop at Saint Marks Place

Edited January 5, 2017 by Union Tpke

[Caelestor]

There is no need for a stop at Saint Marks Place or 79th Street. The first phase already has been built, I don't know why you wrote that. The 86th Street station has an entrance at 83rd.

 

The Houston Street station will stretch to 3rd Street while the 14th Street station will stretch to 11th. I think that it would be quite unnecessary to have a stop at Saint Marks Place

 

To be fair, we're discussing a hypothetical 4-track SAS that will never come to fruition. Though I agree with you that there is no need for more stops than what's currently planned, I see the merit for building those extra stops if SAS had express tracks.

 

Also, there's no need for a 125 St stop, given the freeways and waterfront around the area. Just build a 120 St entrance at the 116 St stop.

[Brooklyn]

Is this 3 Av NORTH of 60 St or SOUTH of 60 St?

 

 

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3rd Avenue South of 60th st....

 

The connections are much better with other train lines and I think this alignment would take an unbelievable amount of pressure off the Lex line as you'd have a transfer at 149th st , 59th st , 51 st , 42nd St (4,5,6), Astor Place , Fulton st (4 and 5).

 

So you'd have a TRUE relief line. This is how I would do it.

 

The whole point of running the line under Second Ave / Chrystie St is to connect to Grand St.

 

 

Maybe....but the point of this topic was how I would design it.

[danielhg121]

Having connections at quite literally every stop is way too redundant, only at major hubs i would say 125th and 42nd. The cost of building connections at stops are gonna add up.

 

 

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[N6 Limited]

3rd Avenue South of 60th st....

 

The connections are much better with other train lines and I think this alignment would take an unbelievable amount of pressure off the Lex line as you'd have a transfer at 149th st , 59th st , 51 st , 42nd St (4,5,6), Astor Place , Fulton st (4 and 5).

 

So you'd have a TRUE relief line. This is how I would do it.

 

 

Maybe....but the point of this topic was how I would design it.

 

Having connections at quite literally every stop is way too redundant, only at major hubs i would say 125th and 42nd. The cost of building connections at stops are gonna add up.

 

 

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I agree, the only relief the Lex needs is at 125th and 42nd. However, with regards to Phase 1 and 2, 125th is good enough. Many people on the Upper East side used the Lex because it was the only line, the 2nd Ave line is relieving that need, and an extension to 125 would help Bronx riders bypass the Lex all the way downtown and Metro North riders access the East Side while avoiding Grand Central.

 

The bypasses Grand Central but that can be accessed by the at Times Square.

• Offers Connections to virtually all lines except for the
• It cuts over to the west side Reducing # of transfers
• It stops at Times Square
• It stops at Herald Square
• It stops at Union Square
• It stops at Canal St where there are connections to the   for access further Downtown
• It goes to Brooklyn
• It stops at Atlantic Center/Barclay Center
• It goes straight to the Beach @ Coney Island

Essentially the Lex is no longer necessary for them unless they're trying to access the M60 at 125th Street.

 

Actually, if they could reduce the number of trains needed, that could reduce train traffic delays.

Edited January 6, 2017 by N6 Limited

[bstar1]

Plus they could still use M15SBS service for full length 2Av and 1Av doesn't take too long.

[checkmatechamp13]

Actually, if they could reduce the number of trains needed, that could reduce train traffic delays.

 

Not to mention delays from door-holding when people try to squeeze onto crowded trains. 

[Mtatransit]

The second AV is doing really well! The is not as crowded but still crowded. But the and is still crowded. I think a lot of its ridership comes from the Bronx. I was on a train that was packed until Burnside Av

[bstar1]

Bronx riders don't get a relief.

[N6 Limited]

Plus they could still use M15SBS service for full length 2Av and 1Av doesn't take too long.

Has anyone noticed if a lot of people have been transferring to/from the M15SBS to/from say 96th st?

 

The second AV is doing really well! The is not as crowded but still crowded. But the and is still crowded. I think a lot of its ridership comes from the Bronx. I was on a train that was packed until Burnside Av

Isn't it! It's really interesting to see quick adoption so far. Yes, lot of ridership on the is from the Bronx, they don't want to sit through local stops through Manhattan, their ride is long enough, especially since most lines are all local in the Bronx.

[bstar1]

And Bronx riders from join the crowd at 125 St or some could stay on .

[GojiMet86]

Some food for thought:

 

The 4th Avenue line between 59th Street and 95th Street was built with 4 track ways, intended as:

 

SB local-SB express-NB express-NB local.

 

As it is right now, the two westernmost tracks (intended SB local-SB express) are occupied by tracks (current SB Local-NB Local). The southbound platforms are built as planned, but the northbound platforms occupy the intended NB express space.

 

 

Imagine a track built on the intended NB-local track way (assuming it is empty) above and connected to the 95th Street interlocking, to the area where the 4th Avenue line crosses the LIRR Bay Ridge line. This track would then verge to the right and below into the Sea Beach line, specifically to occupy the express track that was removed years ago. This new track would serve to provide access for deadhead trains to the Coney Island Yard complex.

Edited January 6, 2017 by GojiMet86

[Around the Horn]

I think ConEd uses that space for electrical conduits.

[psoohoo]

Not sure if this have been discussed previously....

 

is there any way of building a switch on the SB 6th Ave between the Local and Express tracks either before or after the Broadway-Lafayette Street Station so that the B and D can effectively route to 8th Avenue in both directions to and from the bridge.

 

Or at least going from the local to express so that the above can be accomplished.

 

Not sure if there is enough space without remove columns or any other support structures.

[Union Tpke]

Not sure if this have been discussed previously....

 

is there any way of building a switch on the SB 6th Ave between the Local and Express tracks either before or after the Broadway-Lafayette Street Station so that the B and D can effectively route to 8th Avenue in both directions to and from the bridge.

 

Or at least going from the local to express so that the above can be accomplished.

 

Not sure if there is enough space without remove columns or any other support structures.

 

There used to be such a switch before the Chrystie Street Connection was built.

[Wallyhorse]

Bringing this over from the thread on making the a full-time train to the Rockaways only:
 

Extension via the abandoned Rockaway LIRR branch is Union Tpke's good idea. Then, we need the   extended there from Queens Blvd line, then let   take care the rest of the stops.

I have myself many times brought up the idea of the Rockaway Beach Branch as a second line, mainly because it would also provide a second subway line for both the Racino at Aqueduct and Howard Beach-JFK Airport in addition to obviously The Rockaways.  How I would now do that, a bit different from previous ideas on this:

The would revert back to being the main line to Astoria and run 24/7.  Select trains on the going to Coney Island for the Yard (as that would become the Yard for the line) would run via the West End Line after 36th Street in service there and would be designated as such.

The would become the second train to Astoria, running there weekdays from 5:30 AM-10:00 PM.  Other times, the would run with the to 96th Street-2nd Avenue.

The would become the Rockaway Beach Line, running from Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park at all times, eliminating the Shuttle and giving those on the Broadway Line and (at 60th Street on 3rd-Lexington and 5th Avenues) east side access to the Racino at Aqueduct and JFK at Howard Beach.   Late nights, the line could be truncated to 34th Street.

As part of such, evenings, late nights and weekends the would go back to running to 71-Continental when there are no G.O.'s on the QB line to replace the and on weekends the .

If needed, a new  train could run from 95th Street-Broadway Junction via the Nassau and Broadway-Brooklyn Lines OR via reconnecting the Brooklyn-bound track from the Nassau Line to the Manhattan Bridge, running as a loop to and from 95th Street in Brooklyn, operating via the Tunnel (and stopping ONLY at Jay-Metrotech, Court, Broad, Fulton and Chambers) to Manhattan and via the Bridge back to Brooklyn).  Such would run 24/7 and allow the to in that scenario move its Brooklyn terminal to Coney Island via most likely the West End or Brighton Line.  

Edited January 17, 2017 by Wallyhorse

[Lance]

I see we're still rearranging the entire B-Division to solve one problem...

[biGC323232]

I see we're still rearranging the entire B-Division to solve one problem...

  ....What im trying to figure out is how would the  get from Whitehall to Rockaway park

[pringle5095]

....What im trying to figure out is how would the get from Whitehall to Rockaway park

would run via Broadway, Queens Blvd, and Rockaway Beach

 

 

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[RailRunRob]

would run via Broadway, Queens Blvd, and Rockaway Beach

 

 

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Could the line handle 5 routes? Can't even handle the . currently.

 

 

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[Wallyhorse]

Could the line handle 5 routes? Can't even handle the . currently.

 

 

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would only run on QB in off hours (evenings, nights and weekends), mainly to cover 67th and 71st-Continental) as the would turn off at 63rd-Rego Park.

 

The would be back to Astoria

 

The would run as it does now.

 

Weekdays, the would be the only local to 71-Continental.  The would assume that role nights and weekends while weekday evenings the and would both go there (since there are fewer trains on the road).

[RR503]

I think that just moving the or would be *much* easier. No need to stir the pot if nothing is wrong. 

 

Also running the as the only local for 2 stops on QB during nights/weekends seems like a recipe for angry riders. At least make it 8 (or 10 60').

Edited January 17, 2017 by RR503

[Wallyhorse]

I think that just moving the or would be *much* easier. No need to stir the pot if nothing is wrong. 

 

Also running the as the only local for 2 stops on QB during nights/weekends seems like a recipe for angry riders. At least make it 8 (or 10 60').

The already has a long route coming from 95th Street, which is why the switch-arounds as I would do it (and in the 's case, back to where it went to prior to 1987 with regards to Astoria with a possible southern terminal switch due to yard needs).