R179 Discussion Thread

[East New York]

I agree with the timeline... It would be about a year before things stared rolling, but they can have the first car done in as little as 6-8 months.

 

The R188 is totally different as the cars were built with new technology, and all the converted sets needed to be upgraded. Considering the R188 is new technology with CBTC, and the R160's are already CBTC ready they don't have to do much....

 

Now let's think back to what you just said lance. It too ALMOST 2 years from award to testing of a new car with newer technology than that of the old.... That being said, a year for new R160's or R179's to basically the same specs. If it's from scratch, then yeah 2 years.

 

I also agree that it should be a last resort. Yet it should still be on the table.....

[R32 3838]

If they were to ever switch the car order to kawasaki they should change it 260 5 car units and 40 4 car units this way the can go full length

[Around the Horn]

So if they transfer the order tomorrow( I know this isn't happening but for the sake of conversation...) they'd have the pilot ready by February and in service by July? That's much much faster than I expected.

[East New York]

It's possible. If the R188's were the exact same as the 142's they would have been here a year sooner.

[RFWLover]

This all seems a bit odd. If this were going on, there would likely be an IG investigation in to the TA's procurement process. There is supposed to be oversight.

[R10 2952]

At this point I'd much rather seem an actual American company build the order.  Kawasaki and Bombardier might have facilities upstate, but they're still foreign companies at the end of the day.  And with this whole perfect shitstorm that is the R179 contract, the TA may as well be going hat in hand to American Car & Foundry and beg them to get back in the passenger railcar business. I'd take ACF over these jokers anyday...

[TheNewYorkElevated]

At this point I'd much rather seem an actual American company build the order.  Kawasaki and Bombardier might have facilities upstate, but they're still foreign companies at the end of the day.  And with this whole perfect shitstorm that is the R179 contract, the TA may as well be going hat in hand to American Car & Foundry and beg them to get back in the passenger railcar business. I'd take ACF over these jokers anyday...

But is ACF building subway cars again?

[LTA1992]

But is ACF building subway cars again?

Nope. Besides, they'd need to be qualified to do so for the MTA anyway.

 

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[MysteriousBtrain]

But is ACF building subway cars again?

I think it was meant as a joke. ACF is never seeing NYC subway service again.

[Around the Horn]

The only car builder I trust at this point is Kawasaki

 

 

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[Fan Railer]

Alstom????

[Around the Horn]

Alstom????

forgot about them

[R10 2952]

Nope. Besides, they'd need to be qualified to do so for the MTA anyway.

 

 

 

I think it was meant as a joke. ACF is never seeing NYC subway service again.

I wouldn't rule anything out. ACF built subway cars before, so they do have the qualifications.  They would simply need to be properly incentivized to resume building passenger stock.  A long shot, granted, but not impossible. Y'all need to stop worshipping these multinational foreign-based conglomerates like Alstom; they contribute to the erosion of the U.S. manufacturing base. Maybe St. Louis Car and Pullman did indeed screw up with the R44/46 orders, but not giving US-based companies a fair chance at a contract for 40+ years is simply not objective.

Edited July 18, 2016 by R10 2952

[LTA1992]

I wouldn't rule anything out. ACF built subway cars before, so they do have the qualifications. They would simply need to be properly incentivized to do so. A long shot, granted, but not impossible. Y'all need to stop worshipping these multinational foreign-based conglomerates like Alstom; they contribute to the erosion of the U.S. manufacturing base- just ask SubwayGuy....

I think they'd have to be requalified since subway car technology has advanced greatly since they last built anything for New York City.

 

Nobody's worshipping those corporations. It just takes 5 seconds of thinking.

 

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[R10 2952]

These companies make money off of stuff they build here and it all goes back to headquarters outside our borders.  SubwayGuy has certainly made good points on these boards about the need for trade protectionism.  And regarding technology, it would be a lot cheaper if the TA just realized they could still build cars with rollsigns and SMEE braking.  Computers are not essential to a train's design- functionality is.  Cast-iron brakes are more fundamental than FIND displays.  You won't see an R62 get taken out of service because a systems monitor got gunked up with steel dust.

Edited July 18, 2016 by R10 2952

[Around the Horn]

I dont trust any American companies any more. World conglomerates have a better track record than any American company out there today.

 

Just look at the Silverliner V. What part failed again? The part that was built in Ohio using an old design mandated by Buy America. They could have gotten parts from Asia that were a better design and better crafted but oh no we have to make stuff in America...

 

If you want the best product, go to Asia. They have better craftsmanship, better methods and better quality. Until America can match Asia in these areas, you'll see these global conglomerates dominating the marketplace.

 

There was this TV show I saw from Japan called Supreme Skills where two teams had to meet a challenge head on. The difficulty of those tasks was ridiculous(like designing a bicycle that can stay upright and move forward for 30m without the rider pedaling), but they met them head on and often completed them. (You should check it out. Its actually pretty interesting)

[LTA1992]

I dont trust any American companies any more. World conglomerates have a better track record than any American company out there today.

 

Just look at the Silverliner V. What part failed again? The part that was built in Ohio using an old design mandated by Buy America. They could have gotten parts from Asia that were a better design and better crafted but oh no we have to make stuff in America...

 

If you want the best product, go to Asia. They have better craftsmanship, better methods and better quality. Until America can match Asia in these areas, you'll see these global conglomerates dominating the marketplace.

 

There was this TV show I saw from Japan called Supreme Skills where two teams had to meet a challenge head on. The difficulty of those tasks was ridiculous(like designing a bicycle that can stay upright and move forward for 30m without the rider pedaling), but they met them head on and often completed them. (You should check it out. Its actually pretty interesting)

And hence the power of the 21st century global economy.

 

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[2 Train Master]

Wow! Now that I read some of which is on going, I remember years ago people were stating the R-160 should had been one big order including the option 3(if there was one) if not include one. I would still agree to this day it should had been done but back on topic about the 179, if it is cancelled or handed over to another builder, when would the first production trains(not TEST) would be rolling in? 

 

I love the 32's to death but they are seriously kicking their asses and their service is very appreciated even though they are disliked and breakdown often due to age. Still getting the job done, still getting bashed, banged up, and breaking down but they are needed. Cant wait till they finally retire but appreciate service they still provide while this 179 b.s is happening.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I dont trust any American companies any more. World conglomerates have a better track record than any American company out there today.

 

Just look at the Silverliner V. What part failed again? The part that was built in Ohio using an old design mandated by Buy America. They could have gotten parts from Asia that were a better design and better crafted but oh no we have to make stuff in America...

 

If you want the best product, go to Asia. They have better craftsmanship, better methods and better quality. Until America can match Asia in these areas, you'll see these global conglomerates dominating the marketplace.

 

There was this TV show I saw from Japan called Supreme Skills where two teams had to meet a challenge head on. The difficulty of those tasks was ridiculous(like designing a bicycle that can stay upright and move forward for 30m without the rider pedaling), but they met them head on and often completed them. (You should check it out. Its actually pretty interesting)

Japan has better craftsmanship, better methods and better quality. Not all of Asia does. I wouldn't trust Hyundai Rotem with the R179 or R211 contracts. Or CSR, like the MBTA and CTA are doing with their next subway car contracts. Remember, it's not just SEPTA having trouble with their Rotem trains - MBTA and MetroLink are having major problems with their Rotem commuter rail trains. I'm obviously not going to suggest the MTA award the huge R211 contract - or even issue an transfer contract order on the R179s - to ACF Industries, a company that hasn't built a single subway car for NYC since 1958 just because they're a US-based railcar company. If they ever do decide to go back into the passenger/transit railcar industry, they would have to prove themselves like any other company new to the industry, because they've been out of it for so long. And it doesn't seem like ACF even wants to get back into the subway car-building business.

 

But I am going to say that yes, we actually do have to make things in America, (other than money). Because we can't all be tech wizes, financial wizes, investment bankers, NBA stars, NFL stars, fashion designers, pop stars, the next Mark Zuckerberg or the next Top Model. And we can't rely solely on finance, science, technology (computer and medical) fashion, sports and entertainment/social media to carry the day for the US economy. McDonald's, Wal-mart and Old Navy can't be the only other options for people who can't make it in those fields. We still need heavy industry. What we should be learning from Japan are their better methods for better quality and craftsmanship. Management included, because much of the blame for why so much of our manufacturing is gone can be placed squarely at the feet of the people at the top who were making the decisions. Perhaps then, we might still have a Budd or Pressed Steel or Pullman or St. Louis Car still in business. Or we could conceivably award the R211 contract to an ACF still making passenger trains.

Edited July 18, 2016 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Jose Angel]

To be honest, I don't like the R32's in any line, but some R160's replaced the R32's of the and trains. But thanks to the R179's, it's going to replace all the R42's and I hope the can let the R179's replace all the R32's. I like more the R46's but, it's going to be replaced by the R211's. 

And the first 2 sets of 5-car sets of the R179's have been built, so anytime soon, we might see the testing it in any BMT/IND lines.

[Union Tpke]

To be honest, I don't like the R32's in any line, but some R160's replaced the R32's of the and trains. But thanks to the R179's, it's going to replace all the R42's and I hope the can let the R179's replace all the R32's. I like more the R46's but, it's going to be replaced by the R211's. 

And the first 2 sets of 5-car sets of the R179's have been built, so anytime soon, we might see the testing it in any BMT/IND lines.

 

I love the R32s and they have been on every B Division line in the system. I hope that they will run up SAS at some point.

[Around the Horn]

I love the R32s and they have been on every B Division line in the system. I hope that they will run up SAS at some point.

As long as they're banned on the that won't be happening. I used to love the R32's but they're way past their prime and I can't wait till they're gone.

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

As long as they're banned on the that won't be happening. I used to love the R32's but they're way past their prime and I can't wait till they're gone.

 

 

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I meant as a fan trip or something. I was never thinking of revenue service. It could be possible. With the possibly being rerouted onto SAS, and with R32s running on the line, it is possible, but unlikely.

[Around the Horn]

I meant as a fan trip or something. I was never thinking of revenue service. It could be possible. With the possibly being rerouted onto SAS, and with R32s running on the line, it is possible, but unlikely.

Last I heard,unless the plans changed, the R32s will be on the shuttle during the Myrtle Viaduct work because the temporary shop at Fresh Pond Yard can only fit married pairs and can't fit a 4 car NTT.

 

 

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[Amtrak41]

< hope the can let the R179's replace all the R32's.>

 

There will far too few R179's to get rid of all the R32's. 260 R179's in 4 car sets cannot replace 50 R42 + 222 R32, then there's the return of the W train, and general growth everywhere. I also have my doubts all the R44's will last long enough for the SI version of the R211, and may have to send a few R46's or R68's there as triage. Their bodies are shoot. Look at the body jobs along the edges of the roofs and stainless plates capping corners of the doorways on the outside.