SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[darkstar8983]

42 minutes ago, RockawayLcl said:

From your many experiences, what can you say is one of the fastest corridors within the system? Examples I'd include would be Queens Blvd with the E and F, i forgot how fast those trains Zoom pass the local stations. Another one i used to love but doesn't feel the same sometimes would be the 7th Ave Exp between 96th St and Chambers

The  /  between Lexington Av and Queensboro Plaza used to be fast with the R160s (once the train hit 60 MPH headed towards Astoria)

[KingsbridgeKid2532]

125th to 59th (A/D) use to be  about 7- 8 minutes when I was in high school. Now that leg takes forever

[darkstar8983]

12 minutes ago, KingsbridgeKid2532 said:

125th to 59th (A/D) use to be  about 7- 8 minutes when I was in high school. Now that leg takes forever

Yeah; the train slows down too much after 86 St

[mrsman]

16 hours ago, Siemenslover said:

I know the QBL-Broadway is unpopular here but it’s needed and should definitely be more than 7 TPH. If anything, shift some N/Q to the B/D

Sure.  Ideally, by untangling the knots on Broadway, there would be more room for more trains on all 4 Broadway services.  If all services were to stay the sajme, but W was increased from 7 to 14 that would be great!.  But if we were trying to be revenue neutral, it would amount to a reallocation of services as opposed to a general increase.

And one would also assume that an effective cut of N, Q, and R services would amount to an increase in D, B, and M services so that there is not much effective loss of service for the 4th Ave, Brighton, and QBL local corridors.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

18 hours ago, Siemenslover said:

I know the QBL-Broadway is unpopular here but it’s needed and should definitely be more than 7 TPH. If anything, shift some N/Q to the B/D

If you run the  local to/from 71st Avenue via 53rd Tunnel and the  express to from Hillside/Jamaica Center via 63rd Tunnel, then you can still have a QBL-Broadway service. And though you'd be bringing in a new merge at Lex & 63rd between the  and  (  and  southbound), the three close-together merges in LIC ( / at 36th, / at Queens Plaza and  at the 60th Tunnel) would all be eliminated.

What would "shifting some N/Q to the B/D" accomplish?

Edited November 30, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Siemenslover]

3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

If you run the  local to/from 71st Avenue via 53rd Tunnel and the  express to from Hillside/Jamaica Center via 63rd Tunnel, then you can still have a QBL-Broadway service. And though you'd be bringing in a new merge at Lex & 63rd between the  and  (  and  southbound), the three close-together merges in LIC ( / at 36th, / at Queens Plaza and  at the 60th Tunnel) would all be eliminated.

What would "shifting some N/Q to the B/D" accomplish?

The comment I replied to wasn’t talking about E/M local and N going to JC and way to take my quote even more out of context. I like your idea though 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

1 hour ago, Siemenslover said:

The comment I replied to wasn’t talking about E/M local and N going to JC and way to take my quote even more out of context. I like your idea though 

What context was your quote in?

[Theli11]

7 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

What context was your quote in?

Taking down to 7 Trains Per Hour and Making the to Astoria raised to 13 TPH. 7 Trains Per Hour + the 8 TPH from the *** doesn't make an adequate service... via 63 to Jamaica Center does rectify this issue though. 

***Can't remember how many TPH is the  (8 or 12?)

[Theli11]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:32 PM, KingsbridgeKid2532 said:

125th to 59th (A/D) use to be  about 7- 8 minutes when I was in high school. Now that leg takes forever

It's always right before it gets to 125 then it'll crawl trying to get to 145 St on both levels. 

[R32 3838]

Fun fact:

7th ave is the last trunk line that hasn't seen a change in subway fleet since 2003. It's always been R62,R62A and R142 since then

The is in 2nd Place since 2007, The fleet hasn't changed on the since the last R42 was taken off of it.

 

Everything else changed

 

I'm not counting the shuttles

Edited December 1, 2021 by R32 3838

[R10 2952]

On 11/16/2021 at 4:30 PM, darkstar8983 said:

They should just order enough cars to outright replace all non-NTT cars in one go.

On 11/16/2021 at 8:46 PM, Around the Horn said:

They'll probably put out an order to do just that once the R262 bid gets back on track.

Where exactly do you expect the MTA to get the money to replace the R68/As early?  They've been having a difficult enough time getting sufficient federal funding as it is, and if Congress goes Republican in 11 months, the MTA can forget about more fed money coming down the line.  Absent that, I just don't see this financially over-leveraged transit agency or its overlords in Albany ponying up the cash on their own.  At this rate, the most they might be able to afford in a few years is a handful of flatcars from ACF...

Does nobody read the Washington DC section of the newspaper anymore? Have people not learned anything from all the Manchin-Sinema drama of the last few months? 

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Where exactly do you expect the MTA to get the money to replace the R68/As early? 

Where exactly did I say that? I said that the R262s would be the priority then an R68/A replacement would follow whenever that may be. I don't expect that to be anytime soon.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Where exactly did I say that? I said that the R262s would be the priority then an R68/A replacement would follow whenever that may be. I don't expect that to be anytime soon.

It wouldn't be that outlandish for expectations of them to be replaced soon as in perhaps the next ten years. Those trains were new when I was a little kid. What are they now like 40+ years old?

[biGC323232]

40 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It wouldn't be that outlandish for expectations of them to be replaced soon as in perhaps the next ten years. Those trains were new when I was a little kid. What are they now like 40+ years old?

Close 36 years old...

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Close 36 years old...

 

Really? They feel a lot older. I remember the first train ride I took on them. My uncle was taking me somewhere and I think it was on the now  train, but definitely the Brighton Line. By the time I was a teenager, I didn't find them as nice with that weird beeping noise they have, but I've passed out on them quite a few times coming from metal concerts back in the day in the City going back to Sheepshead Bay with friends I grew up with. They've been around, that's for sure. I will say in the 90s those trains were reliable. Like work horses. 
 

[biGC323232]

14 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Really? They feel a lot older. I remember the first train ride I took on them. My uncle was taking me somewhere and I think it was on the now  train, but definitely the Brighton Line. By the time I was a teenager, I didn't find them as nice with that weird beeping noise they have, but I've passed out on them quite a few times coming from metal concerts back in the day in the City going back to Sheepshead Bay with friends I grew up with. They've been around, that's for sure. I will say in the 90s those trains were reliable. Like work horses. 
 

They somewhat still reliable....I mean i rarely use them since the stabbing on the ..But they ok when i do have to...

[T to Dyre Avenue]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Really? They feel a lot older. I remember the first train ride I took on them. My uncle was taking me somewhere and I think it was on the now  train, but definitely the Brighton Line. By the time I was a teenager, I didn't find them as nice with that weird beeping noise they have, but I've passed out on them quite a few times coming from metal concerts back in the day in the City going back to Sheepshead Bay with friends I grew up with. They've been around, that's for sure. I will say in the 90s those trains were reliable. Like work horses. 
 

They were lemons in their early years, though. I remember in 3rd Grade (c. 1986-87) seeing on the cover of Newsday (which had an NYC edition back then, with remarkably good subway coverage) a photo of a lemon with two tokens on top of a subway map next to the headline. Also remember seeing a story on Channel 2 News about their unreliability at the time when they were running exclusively on the Brighton Line trains - then the Broadway  and . I didn't get to ride them until the Manhattan Bridge north tracks reopened in December 1988 when they began running on the full  route then, sending the R40M and R42 trains that previously ran on the Bronx-34th St  off to GOH and eventually onto the Eastern Division trains. Clearly, the MTA found a way to make lemonade from those lemons. I rode R68s on the  and 6th Ave  to and from high school frequently (1992-96). During those four years, I don't ever recall having a mechanical problem while riding them. But with the MTA pushing hard on CBTC, they are eventually going have to go to the big train depot in the sky. 

14 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Where exactly do you expect the MTA to get the money to replace the R68/As early?  They've been having a difficult enough time getting sufficient federal funding as it is, and if Congress goes Republican in 11 months, the MTA can forget about more fed money coming down the line.  Absent that, I just don't see this financially over-leveraged transit agency or its overlords in Albany ponying up the cash on their own.  At this rate, the most they might be able to afford in a few years is a handful of flatcars from ACF...

Does nobody read the Washington DC section of the newspaper anymore? Have people not learned anything from all the Manchin-Sinema drama of the last few months? 

No, but they can start planning for the replacement of the R68/As now. It was 10 years from the time they started planning for the R211s to the time the first ten cars were delivered. They started planning for the R142/As and the R143s in the 90s. Surely, the MTA brain can start planning for the replacement of both the R62/As and the R68/As at the same time, no? 

And like I mentioned in response to VG8, the MTA seem to be heavily committed to CBTC signal replacement. They determined years ago that it would be too expensive to retrofit the SMEE-era cars like the R62s and R68s with CBTC technology. That's why the MTA retrofitted CBTC kits into the 's R142A cars and moved them to the  (in addition to the factory-new R188s they ordered), while moving the 's R62A's back to the . I do seem to recall quite a few posters on here who were very upset about the  losing its new tech cars, even though Westchester Yard shop forces were doing a shitty job of maintaining them. The MTA are going to opt for replacing the R62s and R68s once the CBTC program goes into high gear. It's more expensive not to.

Edited December 2, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue
Emphasis and clarity

[biGC323232]

22 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They were lemons in their early years, though. I remember in 3rd Grade (c. 1986-87) seeing on the cover of Newsday (which had an NYC edition back then, with remarkably good subway coverage) a photo of a lemon with two tokens on top of a subway map next to the headline. Also remember seeing a story on Channel 2 News about their unreliability at the time when they were running exclusively on the Brighton Line trains - then the Broadway  and . I didn't get to ride them until the Manhattan Bridge north tracks reopened in December 1988 when they began running on the full  route then, sending the R40M and R42 trains that previously ran on the Bronx-34th St  off to GOH and eventually onto the Eastern Division trains. Clearly, the MTA found a way to make lemonade from those lemons. I rode R68s on the  and 6th Ave  to and from high school frequently (1992-96). During those four years, I don't ever recall having a mechanical problem while riding them. But with the MTA pushing hard on CBTC, they are eventually going have to go to the big train depot in the sky. 

No, but they can start planning for the replacement of the R68/As now. It was 10 years from the time they started planning for the R211s to the time the first ten cars were delivered. They started planning for the R142/As and the R143s in the 90s. Surely, the MTA brain can start planning for the replacement of both the R62/As and the R68/As at the same time, no? 

And like I mentioned in response to VG8, the MTA seem to be heavily committed to CBTC signal replacement. They determined years ago that it would be too expensive to retrofit the SMEE-era cars like the R62s and R68s with CBTC technology. That's why the MTA retrofitted CBTC kits into the 's R142A cars and moved them to the  (in addition to the factory-new R188s they ordered), while moving the 's R62A's back to the . I do seem to recall quite a few posters on here who were very upset about the  losing its new tech cars, even though Westchester Yard shop forces were doing a shitty job of maintaining them. The MTA are going to opt for replacement over retrofitting once the CBTC program goes into high gear. It's more expensive not to.

Good points...Definitely turned the Lemons Into Lemonade...From my observation at that time is that the R68/A's Suffered from being able to Climb a Grade...I think there where other issues but thats what i remember the most

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They were lemons in their early years, though. I remember in 3rd Grade (c. 1986-87) seeing on the cover of Newsday (which had an NYC edition back then, with remarkably good subway coverage) a photo of a lemon with two tokens on top of a subway map next to the headline. Also remember seeing a story on Channel 2 News about their unreliability at the time when they were running exclusively on the Brighton Line trains - then the Broadway  and . I didn't get to ride them until the Manhattan Bridge north tracks reopened in December 1988 when they began running on the full  route then, sending the R40M and R42 trains that previously ran on the Bronx-34th St  off to GOH and eventually onto the Eastern Division trains. Clearly, the MTA found a way to make lemonade from those lemons. I rode R68s on the  and 6th Ave  to and from high school frequently (1992-96). During those four years, I don't ever recall having a mechanical problem while riding them. But with the MTA pushing hard on CBTC, they are eventually going have to go to the big train depot in the sky. 

No, but they can start planning for the replacement of the R68/As now. It was 10 years from the time they started planning for the R211s to the time the first ten cars were delivered. They started planning for the R142/As and the R143s in the 90s. Surely, the MTA brain can start planning for the replacement of both the R62/As and the R68/As at the same time, no? 

And like I mentioned in response to VG8, the MTA seem to be heavily committed to CBTC signal replacement. They determined years ago that it would be too expensive to retrofit the SMEE-era cars like the R62s and R68s with CBTC technology. That's why the MTA retrofitted CBTC kits into the 's R142A cars and moved them to the  (in addition to the factory-new R188s they ordered), while moving the 's R62A's back to the . I do seem to recall quite a few posters on here who were very upset about the  losing its new tech cars, even though Westchester Yard shop forces were doing a shitty job of maintaining them. The MTA are going to opt for replacing the R62s and R68s once the CBTC program goes into high gear. It's more expensive not to.

lol All I knew was the train looked nice and new and compared to the really old ones, so it was an improvement.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[trainfan22]

If anybody is wondering, the Holiday train is NOT running this year, the Transit Museum confirmed it. You can still view the Arnies as an static display at the museum itself though.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol All I knew was the train looked nice and new and compared to the really old ones, so it was an improvement.

They sure were. Although the pre-GOH R32 and R40m/R42 “salad trains” that ran on the  could really tear it up on those CPW express tracks between 125 and 59, they felt like they were on their last legs so when the R68As bumped them off in late 1988, it was an improvement. 

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

If anybody is wondering, the Holiday train is NOT running this year, the Transit Museum confirmed it. You can still view the Arnies as an static display at the museum itself though.

Yep, I saw it on their Twitter feed. I’m disappointed, but I expected it.

[paulrivera]

52 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They sure were. Although the pre-GOH R32 and R40m/R42 “salad trains” that ran on the  could really tear it up on those CPW express tracks between 125 and 59, they felt like they were on their last legs so when the R68As bumped them off in late 1988, it was an improvement. 

I wish I was around for those SMEE salads.

Anyways, I'll just leave a random pic of my all time favorite SMEE salad here:

[R10 2952]

Yeah, those must have been wacky times LOL..  That said, mixing fleets was a long-running practice, probably going back to the early days in the 1910s.  Made sense for them in terms of operational flexibility, but as a passenger in the 2000s, I remember a lot of the mixed trains riding rough.  I don't think General Electric and Westinghouse propulsion were meant to go together in one consist.

[Calvin]

Last week, I was on the  from Lexington Av-59 St to Canal St: the consist was an R68/A mixed together, 2900-2903 and 5009-5012. The mixed consist tend to pop up on occasion on the  .

Edited December 3, 2021 by Calvin

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

I wish I was around for those SMEE salads.

Anyways, I'll just leave a random pic of my all time favorite SMEE salad here:

The oldest 60FT SMEE (R10) in the same consist as the newest 60FT SMEE (R42) . I heard when the R42s made their revenue service debut, it was only one pair while the rest of the consist was other car types.

 

15 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Yeah, those must have been wacky times LOL..  That said, mixing fleets was a long-running practice, probably going back to the early days in the 1910s.  Made sense for them in terms of operational flexibility, but as a passenger in the 2000s, I remember a lot of the mixed trains riding rough.  I don't think General Electric and Westinghouse propulsion were meant to go together in one consist.

In the IRT cars were assigned by propulsion, West Side was GE while the East Side was Westinghouse (or it made have been the other way around, I forget). That could have minimized the bucking. Not sure how they did things in the B div back then as I never seen that discussed. I know the R30 contract had both GE and Westinghouse cars IIRC.

Edited December 3, 2021 by trainfan22