SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

12 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

So will the  run weekend service tomorrow or are 4-car trains going to be going all the way to Forrest Hills?

If the second one, does this have to do with running the trains OPTO to reduce the number of staff needed per train?

Tomorrow subways are running on a Saturday schedule. Typically they run 4-car trains on weekends (and only to Essex). 

[Lawrence St]

Has there actually ever been a 1:23 departure from Pelham Bay on the ?

[Trainmaster5]

19 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I been using the subway daily and I can tell you I've been on Packed and Trains daily between 2pm and 6pm. I go by what i see and since more people have been back to work with the exception of a decent chunk of office workers plus students going back to school. But with these new mandates I expect the ridership to drop by 5 to 10%. Maybe 80% was a stretch but I would say at least 70%. Documentation doesn't mean anything because they go by fares and most people who ride the system fare beat.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how bad crowding is going to be on the 3rd with these reduced services when people are going back to school and work. If they make all classes remote again, That's a chunk of ridership right there.

As VG8 and I tried to point out go back to the official MTA site and check out the whole  set of numbers. LIRR, MNRR, Express and local bus ridership numbers. Are you suggesting that everyone is farebeating ? Much of the subway ridership is because of those contributing factors. This is even before the Covid factor. Perhaps you and those who cosigned your observations are a minority view  ? I came from a family meeting yesterday that included 17 people who commuted daily from the 5 boroughs and Long Island. 14 of them,  all office employees, come to the office 2 or 3 times a week at most. They like it and their employers like it so even after this thing blows over that's going to be the New Normal . I predict that the will try to return to the pre-pandemic service level in the beginning. Since the business economy in the Downstate region determined the service levels historically after this shakes out I predict a reduction in service levels in parts of the transit system. Look at post 9/11 for example. WFH is a progression from the back office movement post 9/11. Business is the determining factor here. Read the business section of your newspaper or website. That's the future of mass transit in NYC. Just my take. I've been a New Yorker for 70+ years and a voracious reader and observer and listener over that time. Even the most ardent transit fans can't deny the situation. Like I said this is my prediction. YMMV. Happy New Year to all my fellow posters.  Carry on. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

44 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

As VG8 and I tried to point out go back to the official MTA site and check out the whole  set of numbers. LIRR, MNRR, Express and local bus ridership numbers. Are you suggesting that everyone is farebeating ? Much of the subway ridership is because of those contributing factors. This is even before the Covid factor. Perhaps you and those who cosigned your observations are a minority view  ? I came from a family meeting yesterday that included 17 people who commuted daily from the 5 boroughs and Long Island. 14 of them,  all office employees, come to the office 2 or 3 times a week at most. They like it and their employers like it so even after this thing blows over that's going to be the New Normal . I predict that the will try to return to the pre-pandemic service level in the beginning. Since the business economy in the Downstate region determined the service levels historically after this shakes out I predict a reduction in service levels in parts of the transit system. Look at post 9/11 for example. WFH is a progression from the back office movement post 9/11. Business is the determining factor here. Read the business section of your newspaper or website. That's the future of mass transit in NYC. Just my take. I've been a New Yorker for 70+ years and a voracious reader and observer and listener over that time. Even the most ardent transit fans can't deny the situation. Like I said this is my prediction. YMMV. Happy New Year to all my fellow posters.  Carry on. 

I spoke with the  about ridership data earlier this year. They are definitely monitoring it closely and trying to adjust where possible, but as we both noted, what they really depend on is the commuters and those folks have not come back en masse. Now, some people may come back next year, but most companies are delaying reopening indefinitely.

[trainfan22]

Earlier I was at 42nd Bryant Park waiting for an S/B 6th Ave train to west 4th for the A/C line, check the countdown clock, was 15 minutes away and the was 20 minutes away.. I went out of the system to walk to the 34th Street on the 8th Ave line.

 

 

My train showed up, it was an R46 with a defect of some sort, my guess is the handbrake activated on one of the cars as I felt like the train was a dragging one of the trucks in my car along. I've heard of handbrakes activating on moving trains before so it ain't that far fetched lol. Got off at 14th for the and called it a day.

Edited January 1, 2022 by trainfan22

[NewFlyer 230]

15 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Earlier I was at 42nd Bryant Park waiting for an S/B 6th Ave train to west 4th for the A/C line, check the countdown clock, was 15 minutes away and the was 20 minutes away.. I went out of the system to walk to the 34th Street on the 8th Ave line.

 

 

My train showed up, it was an R46 with a defect of some sort, my guess is the handbrake activated on one of the cars as I felt like the train was a dragging one of the trucks in my car along. I've heard of handbrakes activating on moving trains before so it ain't that far fetched lol. Got off at 14th for the and called it a day.

Those wait times for the 6th Ave trains can be quite annoying especially on Saturday/Sunday mornings at around 8:30-9am. 
What usually made things worst is that I would get off a Coney Island bound  train at Rockerfeller Center for an uptown  train but the  would literally pull out of Rockerfeller Center at the same time causing me and whoever else to wait 20-22 mins. So usually I opted to walk to either the  or the M10 since I would normally have to take the  to 59th for the  anyways. Glad I don’t work in Manhattan anymore.  

[Mtatransit]

On 12/31/2021 at 9:02 AM, Trainmaster5 said:

As VG8 and I tried to point out go back to the official MTA site and check out the whole  set of numbers. LIRR, MNRR, Express and local bus ridership numbers. Are you suggesting that everyone is farebeating ? Much of the subway ridership is because of those contributing factors. This is even before the Covid factor. Perhaps you and those who cosigned your observations are a minority view  ? I came from a family meeting yesterday that included 17 people who commuted daily from the 5 boroughs and Long Island. 14 of them,  all office employees, come to the office 2 or 3 times a week at most. They like it and their employers like it so even after this thing blows over that's going to be the New Normal . I predict that the will try to return to the pre-pandemic service level in the beginning. Since the business economy in the Downstate region determined the service levels historically after this shakes out I predict a reduction in service levels in parts of the transit system. Look at post 9/11 for example. WFH is a progression from the back office movement post 9/11. Business is the determining factor here. Read the business section of your newspaper or website. That's the future of mass transit in NYC. Just my take. I've been a New Yorker for 70+ years and a voracious reader and observer and listener over that time. Even the most ardent transit fans can't deny the situation. Like I said this is my prediction. YMMV. Happy New Year to all my fellow posters.  Carry on. 

 

On 12/31/2021 at 9:50 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I spoke with the  about ridership data earlier this year. They are definitely monitoring it closely and trying to adjust where possible, but as we both noted, what they really depend on is the commuters and those folks have not come back en masse. Now, some people may come back next year, but most companies are delaying reopening indefinitely.

I suspect a good portion of the workforce who once commuted to their office 5 days a week may only and will in the foreseeable future only do so 2-3 times a week. Hard to really provide a consistent weekday service when some days of the week will have lower ridership than others, so I agree with you in that a general reduction in service is definitely in the work.

HOWEVER, in my opinion it should only be weekday rush hour service that should be reduced. Midday/Weekend trips has been (and is still) being slowly reduced (this is despite increasing ridership pre-COVID, and ridership coming back on Sat/Sun faster than weekdays). Service during these periods should be brought back to AT LEAST every 10 minutes baseline. Hard to believe as recent as 2010, A and R train used to run every 8 minutes on Saturday and every 10 minutes on Sunday

But I do have to say though, fare beating is on an significant upswing, and its getting worse by the day. I won't be surprised if the actual ridership on the trains is 10-15% higher than official counts

 

18 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Those wait times for the EVERY B DIVISION trains except the can be quite annoying especially during off peak  on Saturday/Sunday mornings at around 8:30-9am.  

Fixed that for you!

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mtatransit

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

 

I suspect a good portion of the workforce who once commuted to their office 5 days a week may only and will in the foreseeable future only do so 2-3 times a week. Hard to really provide a consistent weekday service when some days of the week will have lower ridership than others, so I agree with you in that a general reduction in service is definitely in the work.

HOWEVER, in my opinion it should only be weekday rush hour service that should be reduced. Midday/Weekend trips has been (and is still) being slowly reduced (this is despite increasing ridership pre-COVID, and ridership coming back on Sat/Sun faster than weekdays). Service during these periods should be brought back to AT LEAST every 10 minutes baseline. Hard to believe as recent as 2010, A and R train used to run every 8 minutes on Saturday and every 10 minutes on Sunday

But I do have to say though, fare beating is on an significant upswing, and its getting worse by the day. I won't be surprised if the actual ridership on the trains is 10-15% higher than official counts

Oh I didn't mean that they're cutting service. I just meant that they're trying to adjust as in shuffle around the service to meet the ridership they have with the service that they can run given the ongoing  worker shortages. I don't agree with cutting rush hour service because that's where the bulk of their ridership comes from historically, so if they cut it, they have to be very careful. This isn't just about here and now. It's about years from now as well, and you have a lot of people that have become comfortable driving. If you cut service to where they think driving makes more sense, now you have a bigger problem, because they depend on that fare revenue. 

They've already projected that it will take a few years to get ridership fully back, but you still have companies that are trying to reopen, even if it isn't on a massive scale, but there is too much at stake for the . The  needs not only the riders, but also the tax revenues that they generate, such as the office workers like myself buying lunch and spending money in Manhattan. It powers the City and the State and without those tax revenues, the City, the State and the  will be in a world of hurt in the long-term. Right now things are holding up because of the federal funding, but once that goes away, if they don't have the revenues coming in, you have to cut service, which deters ridership, forcing more service cuts, and the cycle continues. This is the real issue when you cut service, as those cuts can bleed over into other things.

The  also generates revenues from real estate it holds, and so if you have stores having to close because there is no business, well that means less money for the . Places like Grand Central... The  is the landlord and they want that foot traffic for obvious reasons. Just one example.

In short, the City and State depend on the  almost as much as the  depends on the City and State. It is the engine that helps to power the economy here, via jobs, transit, etc.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NBTA]

There’s a random  via 6th right now, but the special thing about it is, it’s a mixed set.

9082 and 9418 are the middle two cars.

[Mtatransit]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh I didn't mean that they're cutting service. I just meant that they're trying to adjust as in shuffle around the service to meet the ridership they have with the service that they can run given the ongoing  worker shortages. I don't agree with cutting rush hour service because that's where the bulk of their ridership comes from historically, so if they cut it, they have to be very careful. This isn't just about here and now. It's about years from now as well, and you have a lot of people that have become comfortable driving. If you cut service to where they think driving makes more sense, now you have a bigger problem, because they depend on that fare revenue. 

I was thinking about reallocating some service from current rush hours to off peak hours such as nights and weekends. 

Since ridership is not expected to return to pre-2019 levels for years and many of the ridership that have yet to returns are the peak commuters, I would think that it would be smart for them to reduce some service during rush hour, say a train from every 5 minutes to every 8 minutes, and using the extra savings/crews to run more night/weekend trips. When they do see an upward trend, they can add back the service. So in essence, MTA shouldn't be saving money from cutting rush hours trains but reallocating them to other hours where service is not as frequent.  

The bigger issue here is the general distrust (and the MTA's) track record of cutting service, and then NEVER bringing it back hence the preference to keep the status quo

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

I was thinking about reallocating some service from current rush hours to off peak hours such as nights and weekends. 

Since ridership is not expected to return to pre-2019 levels for years and many of the ridership that have yet to returns are the peak commuters, I would think that it would be smart for them to reduce some service during rush hour, say a train from every 5 minutes to every 8 minutes, and using the extra savings/crews to run more night/weekend trips. When they do see an upward trend, they can add back the service. So in essence, MTA shouldn't be saving money from cutting rush hours trains but reallocating them to other hours where service is not as frequent.  

The bigger issue here is the general distrust (and the MTA's) track record of cutting service, and then NEVER bringing it back hence the preference to keep the status quo

Here's the problem with that. With COVID, the number of workers out from one day to the next is so bad that is it really putting a strain on the service that they can even run. For example, Staten Island was down 100 bus operators. They are not down 300 bus operators. That is a huge amount of trips to try to cover, and they are already scrambling to move trips around as it is having guys start a little later or earlier.

[NewFlyer 230]

18 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

“Those wait times for the EVERY B DIVISION trains except the can be quite annoying especially during off peak”

 

Fixed that for you!

Lol you are not wrong because I’ve seen 20+ min headways on more lines than just the  and . I only said those two because I’ve used them the most over the past few months. The weekend mornings were always terrible more so when it came to transferring from the  to the . Many times I would leave Rockefeller Center and walk to the  and sometimes I would find that the wait for that was just as bad. 
Some of the worst offenders for terrible headways from my experience are the . 

The  has been terrible during the evening hours for as long as I can remember. You will literally have a 20-25 min gap in service and then a few  trains would show up back to back. 

Now that I will be working out in Nassau and will soon have my license I definitely won’t be on the subways and buses as much so I’m glad I won’t have to deal with them unless I were to hangout in Manhattan. 

[Mtatransit]

So I was bus fanning at Canarsie - Rockaway Parkway Station today. The new bus terminals looks awesome! Much better than the old one.

However there is an issue with the set up... Before the renovation there used to be a gate that would open/close to allow B42 to enter the terminal. That gate is no longer there after reconstruction. Now it looks like this

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6457372,-73.9013892,3a,49.3y,301.97h,84.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdA67stTS1MHupOnhy1s5qg!2e0!5s20210801T000000!7i16384!8i8192

So has official ridership count for that station drop to zero yet? Who in their right mind would swipe at the turnstile on the sidewalk (at the so call "fare control" when the busway 1 inch to the left is wide open

Edited January 3, 2022 by Mtatransit

[Lex]

47 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

So I was bus fanning at Canarsie - Rockaway Parkway Station today. The new bus terminals looks awesome! Much better than the old one.

However there is an issue with the set up... Before the renovation there used to be a gate that would open/close to allow B42 to enter the terminal. That gate is no longer there after reconstruction. Now it looks like this

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6457372,-73.9013892,3a,49.3y,301.97h,84.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdA67stTS1MHupOnhy1s5qg!2e0!5s20210801T000000!7i16384!8i8192

So has official ridership count for that station drop to zero yet? Who in their right mind would swipe at the turnstile on the sidewalk (at the so call "fare control" when the busway 1 inch to the left is wide open

*slowly raises hand*

I'd honestly expect the numbers at that station to be difficult to parse, anyway, as the fare gates obviate the need to use the cards on the buses within fare control (though the westbound B82 SBS may struggle for patrons at the station due to needing tickets, whereas the local and B6 don't).

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Lol you are not wrong because I’ve seen 20+ min headways on more lines than just the  and . I only said those two because I’ve used them the most over the past few months. The weekend mornings were always terrible more so when it came to transferring from the  to the . Many times I would leave Rockefeller Center and walk to the  and sometimes I would find that the wait for that was just as bad. 
Some of the worst offenders for terrible headways from my experience are the . 

The  has been terrible during the evening hours for as long as I can remember. You will literally have a 20-25 min gap in service and then a few  trains would show up back to back. 

Now that I will be working out in Nassau and will soon have my license I definitely won’t be on the subways and buses as much so I’m glad I won’t have to deal with them unless I were to hangout in Manhattan. 

And now the ,  and peak direction express  are not running due to staffing shortages. Those trains are going to be crowded as hell, especially with schools open today. I assume the  and Rockaway Park  also won’t run, along with scattered delays elsewhere in the system.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

And now the ,  and peak direction express  are not running due to staffing shortages. Those trains are going to be crowded as hell, especially with schools open today. I assume the  and Rockaway Park  also won’t run, along with scattered delays elsewhere in the system.

Lots of people are still home for vacation this week. Roads are pretty empty today.

[darkstar8983]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Lots of people are still home for vacation this week. Roads are pretty empty today.

True, and colleges are out for winter break. which is good because it looks like almost a Saturday schedule on a lot of routes (and very few if any short-turn or rush hour put-in trains today).

- No Rockaway Park

- ~ 12 minute headways on the  and  (with the  doing that weird thing with some trains express and some local again)

- no peak-direction expresses as I mentioned earlier (  and ) 

- no Kings Highway  trains or  .

- and of course no weekday-only routes ( )

[trainfan22]

B is suspended for the whole week, yikes! Eric Adams should consider making schools remote learning to put less strain on the transit system with all this reduced service.

 

must be getting slammed on Brighton with all those schools along the lines and the not running..

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

B is suspended for the whole week, yikes! Eric Adams should consider making schools remote learning to put less strain on the transit system with all this reduced service.

 

must be getting slammed on Brighton with all those schools along the lines and the not running..

A lot of routes are slashed for the week (at least). All the weekday supplement routes (except the ) are cut, as are most short-turns.

[R32 3838]

4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

B is suspended for the whole week, yikes! Eric Adams should consider making schools remote learning to put less strain on the transit system with all this reduced service.

 

must be getting slammed on Brighton with all those schools along the lines and the not running..

 

This is what i was saying, Thankfully my child's School is a block away from my apartment. It's comical that the DOE is making us do a covid questionnaire daily. They Mind as well do remote if we have to do this shit everyday. 

 

Clearly there's no communication between the , State and city when it comes to this.

 

The Only major issue is that you have a good portion of Parents who work and they can't afford to leave their kids home (ages 4-11)  and give up their job again unless they get some type of unemployment or financial assistance.

 

[paulrivera]

I gotta go to downtown Brooklyn tomorrow (can't avoid the trip.)

Instead of just getting on a  train like I would pre-COVID and the train getting slammed in Manhattan due to those missing Nereid trains (or the slammed local trains due to the missing and  service, I'll be getting creative and taking the BxM3 to 33rd/5th, walk over to 7th and taking the LIRR via Jamaica.

Cheaper than taking a cab, and yes, my sanity really is worth the $16.50 per trip. I am going to reserve the right to go LIRR-Q44-Bxwhatever on the way back tho because I'm not made of money either.

Edited January 4, 2022 by paulrivera

[Lawrence St]

9 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I gotta go to downtown Brooklyn tomorrow (can't avoid the trip.)

Instead of just getting on a  train like I would pre-COVID and the train getting slammed in Manhattan due to those missing Nereid trains (or the slammed local trains due to the missing and  service, I'll be getting creative and taking the BxM3 to 33rd/5th, walk over to 7th and taking the LIRR via Jamaica.

Cheaper than taking a cab, and yes, my sanity really is worth the $16.50 per trip. I am going to reserve the right to go LIRR-Q44-Bxwhatever on the way back tho because I'm not made of money either.

Good luck, the xM3 has been running like garbage. Yonkers is trying to prioritize the BxM1/2 over the 3 since they're more used.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

26 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I gotta go to downtown Brooklyn tomorrow (can't avoid the trip.)

Instead of just getting on a  train like I would pre-COVID and the train getting slammed in Manhattan due to those missing Nereid trains (or the slammed local trains due to the missing and  service, I'll be getting creative and taking the BxM3 to 33rd/5th, walk over to 7th and taking the LIRR via Jamaica.

Cheaper than taking a cab, and yes, my sanity really is worth the $16.50 per trip. I am going to reserve the right to go LIRR-Q44-Bxwhatever on the way back tho because I'm not made of money either.

Just note that the Bronx has lots of cancellations as well, but all cancellations should be posted, so I would just check BusTime before taking the BxM3. I'm usually given a heads up on how many drivers are out. Last I heard, Yonkers was down about 20+ bus operators, but that was a few weeks ago, but still nowhere near what Staten Island has.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Jacob]

13 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

This is what i was saying, Thankfully my child's School is a block away from my apartment. It's comical that the DOE is making us do a covid questionnaire daily. They Mind as well do remote if we have to do this shit everyday. 

 

Clearly there's no communication between the , State and city when it comes to this.

 

The Only major issue is that you have a good portion of Parents who work and they can't afford to leave their kids home (ages 4-11)  and give up their job again unless they get some type of unemployment or financial assistance.

 

Literal pain. Almost gotten late because a  was 16 or 17 minutes away and I was at fulton street to transfer, It's insane to be honest.

[Around the Horn]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:12 AM, Lawrence St said:

Has there actually ever been a 1:23 departure from Pelham Bay on the ?

I'm not sure about the time before the movie came out, but nowadays they deliberately avoid a 1:23 departure.