SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[bobtehpanda]

Can you hammer out such a plan? I'm curious.

 

Second Avenue is planned to have storage tracks from 21 to 9 Sts. With just slightly more foresight (allowing the 14 St station box to be bilevel, with the lower level initially closed), you could feasibly turn east, connecting the Lower East Side and Williamsburg. From there if you decide to extend further the only logical direction is towards Utica and heading south.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[Around the Horn]

Second Avenue is planned to have storage tracks from 21 to 9 Sts. With just slightly more foresight (allowing the 14 St station box to be bilevel, with the lower level initially closed), you could feasibly turn east, connecting the Lower East Side and Williamsburg. From there if you decide to extend further the only logical direction is towards Utica and heading south.

 

Where do I sign up for this?

 

Seriously, this is awesome!

[itsadam]

Second Avenue is planned to have storage tracks from 21 to 9 Sts. With just slightly more foresight (allowing the 14 St station box to be bilevel, with the lower level initially closed), you could feasibly turn east, connecting the Lower East Side and Williamsburg. From there if you decide to extend further the only logical direction is towards Utica and heading south.

 

How would it change from IRT 4 service to IND V service inexpensively? Wouldn't it make more sense to start it as a rerouting of the E over Rutgers to Fulton and then down Utica? Once the new tunnels/line north of Fulton St were built, the E's terminus could be restored and the new V service sent down Utica.

[Porter]

So, in this plan, the presumably follows the same path as outlined by the , except with extensions up to the Bronx and down to Brooklyn, while the runs from Jamaica–179th Street around Manhattan and down to Brooklyn via the 63rd Street Tunnel and a new tunnel somewhere between the Canarsie Tunnel and the Williamsburg Bridge?

[bobtehpanda]

How would it change from IRT 4 service to IND V service inexpensively? Wouldn't it make more sense to start it as a rerouting of the E over Rutgers to Fulton and then down Utica? Once the new tunnels/line north of Fulton St were built, the E's terminus could be restored and the new V service sent down Utica.

 

All new lines are built to BMT standard. It would really be the same as the Astoria Line's handover to the BMT; the Astoria Line was an IRT-dimension line built to BMT standard, so they just shaved the platforms a bit and opened it the next day like normal.

 

While infrastructure exists at Fulton for a Utica Avenue line, that only exists as a platform crossing at a 90 degree angle; there is no room for a turnout of any sort, which would require demolishing existing structures and buildling new tunnels.

 

So, in this plan, the presumably follows the same path as outlined by the , except with extensions up to the Bronx and down to Brooklyn, while the runs from Jamaica–179th Street around Manhattan and down to Brooklyn via the 63rd Street Tunnel and a new tunnel somewhere between the Canarsie Tunnel and the Williamsburg Bridge?

 

Yes.

Edited November 25, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[Daniel The Cool]

Beverly Road on the has WiFi enabled finally.

[Wallyhorse]

Second Avenue is planned to have storage tracks from 21 to 9 Sts. With just slightly more foresight (allowing the 14 St station box to be bilevel, with the lower level initially closed), you could feasibly turn east, connecting the Lower East Side and Williamsburg. From there if you decide to extend further the only logical direction is towards Utica and heading south.

 

Extending the to Brooklyn the EXACT way I would do it from Hanover Square: Via a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that would emerge at what currently is the Transit Museum, the former Court Street station.  

[YankeesPwnMets]

That creates an opportunity to connect those unused tracks at the Chambers Street station to the Second Avenue Subway's Grand Street station instead. The could enter Manhattan via the Montague Tunnel (from some origin in Brooklyn), travel alongside the from Broad Street to Chambers Street, then branch off via the old tracks (and new tunnel) to meet the at Grand Street, continuing north before turning off on 63rd Street to join the until they ultimately terminate at Jamaica–179th Street. While the has to rise in elevation to meet the bridge, the would dive under to meet the deeper station at Grand Street.

And how, pray tell, would you achieve this Chambers-Grand connection without destroying Chinatown? 

[Around the Horn]

And how, pray tell, would you achieve this Chambers-Grand connection without destroying Chinatown? 

Yeah, if you're gonna rip up Chinatown, a connection from SAS to the Bridge is probably a better investment...

[TeeLow]

And how, pray tell, would you achieve this Chambers-Grand connection without destroying Chinatown? 

Damn. Grand St is so smooth now Low Rider don't need to worry about his guts being ripped out.

[Porter]

And how, pray tell, would you achieve this Chambers-Grand connection without destroying Chinatown? 

 

Well, I'd assume the same way that Seattle and Boston excavated their 'big dig' projects. You'd only 'destroy' Chinatown through cut-and-cover.

[bobtehpanda]

Well, I'd assume the same way that Seattle and Boston excavated their 'big dig' projects. You'd only 'destroy' Chinatown through cut-and-cover.

 

Horribly over budget with multiple construction failures?

 

Seattle's tunnels are fairly straightforward; one path from one exit to one entrance with no underground junctions, which this would not be. Boston avoided destroying its neighborhoods because they strictly dug underneath the existing Central Artery, which you wouldn't be able to do for this. This project would be an order of magnitude harder.

[RailRunRob]

Second Avenue is planned to have storage tracks from 21 to 9 Sts. With just slightly more foresight (allowing the 14 St station box to be bilevel, with the lower level initially closed), you could feasibly turn east, connecting the Lower East Side and Williamsburg. From there if you decide to extend further the only logical direction is towards Utica and heading south.

 

Solid !

[YankeesPwnMets]

Chinatown is a densely populated area full of old, rickety buildings along with highly important street connections (Bowery and Canal St), as well as subway lines coming through at different directions (Broadway and 6 Av), all of which would be significantly affected by a Chambers-Grand St connection that would benefit very little people. Sorry dude, but the odds of that idea coming to fruition is the equivalent to the square root of -1. 

 

A project like this would pretty much make the Manhattan Bridge unusable and completely f*ck up connections to the Holland Tunnel. Not to mention you'd basically need to get rid of Chinatown for it. As if  Bowery and Canal weren't congested enough. You could walk across Canal St faster than a theoretical Canal St Crosstown bus and this project would make the entire area big parking lot. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by YankeesPwnMets

[Porter]

Okay, then how does everyone feel about the 's already-officially-studied "Option B"? The would use "Option A", as planned, while the would use "Option B", which would have it join the at Kenmare Street after first curving east to Forsyth Street. This was planned when the was still running through the Montague Tunnel, so that's no longer an issue.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Skipper

[RailRunRob]

Extending the to Brooklyn the EXACT way I would do it from Hanover Square: Via a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that would emerge at what currently is the Transit Museum, the former Court Street station.  

What about bypassing Court Street station?  State Street could be another viable option for tunneling the divergent point could be west of Hoyt- Schermerhorn there's a few hundred feet before the crossover and just after crossing the interestingly enough this seem's to be partially under Transit headquarters seems feasible to break off and curve onto State.  Idea below.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

Okay, then how does everyone feel about the 's already-officially-studied "Option B"? The would use "Option A", as planned, while the would use "Option B", which would have it join the at Kenmare Street after first curving east to Forsyth Street. This was planned when the was still running through the Montague Tunnel, so that's no longer an issue.

A resounding no.

 

They studied that in the FEIS and actually took it off the table because that section of the Lower East Side has the same problems as the Chinatown alignment. Also it would require the suspension of and service to complete the construction, which is an absolute no go.

[Porter]

A resounding no.

 

They studied that in the FEIS and actually took it off the table because that section of the Lower East Side has the same problems as the Chinatown alignment. Also it would require the suspension of and service to complete the construction, which is an absolute no go.

 

So the current SAS plans require no suspensions of service for existing lines, right? Because a suspension of service cannot be justified unless it's a matter of public safety, as with the ?

[Caelestor]

So the current SAS plans require no suspensions of service for existing lines, right? Because a suspension of service cannot be justified unless it's a matter of public safety, as with the ?

 

The only lines that have been suspended in recent memory have been due to bridge reconstruction, 9/11, and Hurricane Sandy. So pretty much no.

 

Why are we proposing the Chambers - Grand St connection via Canal St again? If that's happening, it makes most sense to extend it via Park Row s.t. Chatham Square is still served and SAS doesn't make two sharp turns.

[bobtehpanda]

The only lines that have been suspended in recent memory have been due to bridge reconstruction, 9/11, and Hurricane Sandy. So pretty much no.

 

Why are we proposing the Chambers - Grand St connection via Canal St again? If that's happening, it makes most sense to extend it via Park Row s.t. Chatham Square is still served and SAS doesn't make two sharp turns.

 

Canal is a no go because of existing subway lines.

 

Worth is also a dud because archaeological finds, width, adjacent federal and landmarked buildings.

 

Park means another station at Chambers if you want to connect (pricey), running right adjacent to 1 Police Plaza, and weaving through the supports for the Brooklyn Bridge approaches.

[YankeesPwnMets]

Park means another station at Chambers if you want to connect (pricey), running right adjacent to 1 Police Plaza, and weaving through the supports for the Brooklyn Bridge approaches.

 

Humans will inhabit Pluto before the NYPD will EVER give approval for a tunnel running under them. Hell they've banned cars from Park Row since 9/11

 

@Skipper: Aside from a few weekend shutdowns of the 63rd Street connection, no, there are no service suspensions resulting from construction of the SAS. The only time the MTA actually suspends full time service for construction is when the project is of utmost importance (see: Manhattan Bridge renovations and Montague Street tunnel) 

Edited November 27, 2016 by YankeesPwnMets

[MHV9218]

Not posting car numbers, but hope the T/O on my  who was texting while the train was in motion yesterday isn't too fond of their job, cause not gonna get to keep it too long if a TSS or even a civilian spots that...

Edited November 27, 2016 by MHV9218

[Union Tpke]

Not posting car numbers, but hope the T/O on my  who was texting while the train was in motion yesterday isn't too fond of their job, cause not gonna get to keep it too long if a TSS or even a civilian spots that...

 

You should report it.

[NewFlyer 230]

I've always wonder why some lines at their terminal close all doors except half of one door at the front or end of the car. The and does this at Jamaica Center and I've seen it happen at Coney Island Stillwell Ave.

[Union Tpke]

I've always wonder why some lines at their terminal close all doors except half of one door at the front or end of the car. The and does this at Jamaica Center and I've seen it happen at Coney Island Stillwell Ave.

 

To preserve the A/C and heating.