SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[paulrivera]

Is the R62A supposed to only open one leaf in every other car when the train crews do the partial close procedure? I saw a R62A at Woodlawn doing that yesterday....

Also, baseball season can't come fast enough so that the  can stop doing that 16 minute headway bullcrap on the  in the Bronx.

[Lawrence St]

For some odd reason, on Friday and this week the  trains that were suppose to be running express show up as 74 St-Broadway bound  trains and Vernon Blvd bound  trains during late nights.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Is the R62A supposed to only open one leaf in every other car when the train crews do the partial close procedure? I saw a R62A at Woodlawn doing that yesterday....

Also, baseball season can't come fast enough so that the  can stop doing that 16 minute headway bullcrap on the  in the Bronx.

It looks like this GO is still going to be a thing every other weekend in March when NYCFC starts playing their home games again at Yankee Stadium.

[RailRunRob]

20 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

The B division clocks don't have the announcements like a A division ones. So no next train information or service announcements. They clearly have the feature because they have played the see something, say something psa

The question what's the process and the system to add information and updates? You'd have to have to have some type of teletype to go with the Audio. It's clearly a different system then whats on the A division.  I'm sure the PSA is a default maybe even a tester. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to put in at least weekend service changes B division wise. There are some places tho at 145th street you do get next train information audio and visual.  Approach information Upper and Lower Level and amount of stations away. Barclays as well. So they can auto trigger alerts. ATS has to be the entry point for information on the A division side. Don't see any other reasons.

Edited February 25, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Lawrence St]

The also has announcements, although I still never understood why it didn't get the A divison clocks like the others.

[P3F]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

The also has announcements, although I still never understood why it didn't get the A divison clocks like the others.

These lists might help with that:

A-division lines with ATS:

 

 

A-division lines without ATS:

 

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

Will there ever be a weekend in the foreseeable future where construction work doesn't cripple the subway system with chronic delays?

[RR503]

12 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Will there ever be a weekend in the foreseeable future where construction work doesn't cripple the subway system with chronic delays?

No. 

The only thing I can see is the next time a snowstorm or hurricane hits -- then the weather will be doing the crippling, not the work. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by RR503

[R68OnBroadway]

Just now, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Will there ever be a weekend in the foreseeable future where construction work doesn't cripple the subway system with chronic delays?

I would say no, earliest is when Cuomo loses the election or steps down

[GojiMet86]

When was the last time the subway system had no scheduled (not cancelled) work during a weekend?

[R68OnBroadway]

5 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

When was the last time the subway system had no scheduled (not cancelled) work during a weekend?

Probably sometime during or before the Nixon era

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

7 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

When was the last time the subway system had no scheduled (not cancelled) work during a weekend?

Great question. All I know is that it's been years since there was no scheduled weekend construction work. I hate to say it, but this is what the MTA was forced to do since they had the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" attitude for such a long time. Now they're going to be playing catchup for the rest of our adult lives and I'm not being sarcastic about that either. Recently, it's been getting worse, with construction work starting even earlier on weekday nights.

Edited February 26, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[Union Tpke]

27 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Will there ever be a weekend in the foreseeable future where construction work doesn't cripple the subway system with chronic delays?

I had one of the quickest trips I have ever had on the weekends today. It took me 37 minutes to get from the Upper East Side at 85th Street to Kew Gardens. I waited two minutes for a  got on. I got off at 59th and ran to the Broadway platform and got onto an , which was in the station. I then got off at Queens Plaza, and waited 2 minutes for an . It would have been quicker had reduced speeds due to flagging not slowed down the train.

[trainfan22]

They used to not have G.O's during the Holiday season on weekends, I believe that lasted as recently as the mid to late 2000s. I guess the subway is in such bad shape now that they must have G'O's during the Holiday season.

[Porter]

Would it kill them to open up the other Hudson Yards portal already?

I walked by for the first time in what feels like years and, holy cow, the neighborhood is completely unrecognizable compared to what it looked like when I moved to NYC in 2008. I'd dare to say that it's an entirely new neighborhood, comprising Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, the new High Line, and the soon-to-be-new-again Javits Center. Will the really be able to handle all that traffic? Seriously...

I was surprised that some old 20th Century auto-mechanics were still around and in business up on the northern border of the site. It's such a strange juxtaposition, all that urban rot next to gleaming new structures.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Porter

[R68OnBroadway]

22 minutes ago, Porter said:

Would it kill them to open up the other Hudson Yards portal already?

I walked by for the first time in what feels like years and, holy cow, the neighborhood is completely unrecognizable compared to what it looked like when I moved to NYC in 2008. I'd dare to say that it's an entirely new neighborhood, comprising Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, the new High Line, and the soon-to-be-new-again Javits Center. Will the really be able to handle all that traffic? Seriously...

I was surprised that some old 20th Century auto-mechanics were still around and in business up on the northern border of the site. It's such a strange juxtaposition, all that urban rot next to gleaming new structures.

The stations are huge, so the  might be able to handle it in terms of station capacity, but for line capacity it may not be. 

I still think there needs to be a station at 41st and 10th, and the MTA better do it in a setup that isn't unnecessarily big. (A station layout like that of 77th Street-Lenox Hill Hospital would be great).

[officiallyliam]

4 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The stations are huge, so the  might be able to handle it in terms of station capacity, but for line capacity it may not be. 

I still think there needs to be a station at 41st and 10th, and the MTA better do it in a setup that isn't unnecessarily big. (A station layout like that of 77th Street-Lenox Hill Hospital would be great).

I couldn't agree more about the station layout - I think the most important thing is that this station (and just about any future ones) aren't colossally overbuilt like Hudson Yards and the SAS stops. That being said, though, 77th works the way it does because it's super close to ground level. 41st and 10th is already quite deep, but the station should still be as simple as possible.

[bobtehpanda]

10 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The stations are huge, so the  might be able to handle it in terms of station capacity, but for line capacity it may not be. 

I still think there needs to be a station at 41st and 10th, and the MTA better do it in a setup that isn't unnecessarily big. (A station layout like that of 77th Street-Lenox Hill Hospital would be great).

The  will have the highest capacity of any pair of tracks once CBTC is fully operational. It'll be fine, especially since it's the first stop.

[R68OnBroadway]

6 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

I couldn't agree more about the station layout - I think the most important thing is that this station (and just about any future ones) aren't colossally overbuilt like Hudson Yards and the SAS stops. That being said, though, 77th works the way it does because it's super close to ground level. 41st and 10th is already quite deep, but the station should still be as simple as possible.

A big issue with the MTA overbuilding stations is that once ridership starts to drop, no matter how minimal, they immediately abandon the said giant station and you have an unnecessarily large and dilapidated station, essentially a Chambers Street. If the stations are built to be large enough to allow for growth but are small enough to not be unnecessarily large, that would help control costs. 

As a side note, I hope Phase 2/3/4 stations are built at a reasonable size. You can obviously tell the large, open, wide and rather drab  futuristic stations were built as a publicity stunt for Cuomo and the MTA.

[officiallyliam]

30 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

A big issue with the MTA overbuilding stations is that once ridership starts to drop, no matter how minimal, they immediately abandon the said giant station and you have an unnecessarily large and dilapidated station, essentially a Chambers Street. If the stations are built to be large enough to allow for growth but are small enough to not be unnecessarily large, that would help control costs. 

As a side note, I hope Phase 2/3/4 stations are built at a reasonable size. You can obviously tell the large, open, wide and rather drab  futuristic stations were built as a publicity stunt for Cuomo and the MTA.

Phase 1 of SAS transformed itself, particularly in the later days of construction, from a necessary public works project about function in to a monument to the governor and aspiring president's so-called infrastructure expertise. We can't afford (literally) to have this happen to phase 2, 3, or 4 or any other subway project in the future.

The stations should be, at maximum, as complex as the Archer Avenue stations (with a little bit less orange). Modern, but not insanely overbuilt. And speaking of, they should try to incorporate more natural light wherever possible in the style of Jamaica-Van Wyck (and restore those skylights). Take some of the money saved by building simpler stations and use it for features that people will appreciate more - more natural light, less boring color schemes, and dare I suggest platform edge doors.

Jamaica Van Wyck's skylights - something we should try to emulate in more stations. It's always nice to see the sun underground.

[R68OnBroadway]

5 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

Phase 1 of SAS transformed itself, particularly in the later days of construction, from a necessary public works project about function in to a monument to the governor and aspiring president's so-called infrastructure expertise. We can't afford (literally) to have this happen to phase 2, 3, or 4 or any other subway project in the future.

The stations should be, at maximum, as complex as the Archer Avenue stations (with a little bit less orange). Modern, but not insanely overbuilt. And speaking of, they should try to incorporate more natural light wherever possible in the style of Jamaica-Van Wyck (and restore those skylights). Take some of the money saved by building simpler stations and use it for features that people will appreciate more - more natural light, less boring color schemes, and dare I suggest platform edge doors.

Jamaica Van Wyck's skylights - something we should try to emulate in more stations. It's always nice to see the sun underground.

The Archer Av station design should have been used- large enough to accommodate large crowds and also tall to allow for more air circulation. The use of brick would make the station much more pleasant- the SAS stations are so drab due the lack of art on the platforms and color contrast.

Imo we should try a pilot program at 3 Av  to test the effect of full size PSDs on climate, trash and suicides. If I'm correct MTA already planned one but half-assed it by making it 4 ft 5".

Edited February 26, 2018 by R68OnBroadway

[officiallyliam]

7 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The Archer Av station design should have been used- large enough to accommodate large crowds and also tall to allow for more air circulation. The use of brick would make the station much more pleasant- the SAS stations are so drab due the lack of art on the platforms and color contrast.

Imo we should try a pilot program at 3 Av  to test the effect of full size PSDs on climate, trash and suicides. If I'm correct MTA already planned one but half-assed it by making it 4 ft 5".

I absolutely agree, but I'll raise you one - the PSD pilot program should include all of the shutdown stations. That's Bedford, 1st, 3rd, Union Square, 6th, and 8th.

The MTA will have full access to these stations, making the work easy, and they're the busiest stops on the line making them an ideal place to test the effects of PSDs on passenger flow and dwell times before we suggest their deployment to the rest of the system. 3rd Avenue is the least busy of all the Manhattan stops, making it a terrible place to test the way that PSDs will handle the stresses of the subway system - it's as if the MTA wants to not be able to justify a larger use of platform doors. Not to mention the is, of course, ideal because of automatic train operation.

The MTA is already making efforts to improve passenger circulation at most of the shutdown stops (extra entrances and elevators and Bedford and 1st and new escalators and staircase realignment at Union Square). Platform doors have been proved in many cities to help with both passenger flow and reliability. What's stopping us? Quite frankly, I think they should test out half-height doors as well between Lorimer and either Myrtle-Wyckoff or Broadway Junction, considering these stops will be seeing far less traffic and are also quite busy stations during the rush hour. And they should fix the abhorrent wall tile situation at Sixth.

Come to think of it, there's quite a lot that Transit should do to take advantage of the Canarsie shutdown that they're simply not doing.

[R68OnBroadway]

22 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

I absolutely agree, but I'll raise you one - the PSD pilot program should include all of the shutdown stations. That's Bedford, 1st, 3rd, Union Square, 6th, and 8th.

The MTA will have full access to these stations, making the work easy, and they're the busiest stops on the line making them an ideal place to test the effects of PSDs on passenger flow and dwell times before we suggest their deployment to the rest of the system. 3rd Avenue is the least busy of all the Manhattan stops, making it a terrible place to test the way that PSDs will handle the stresses of the subway system - it's as if the MTA wants to not be able to justify a larger use of platform doors. Not to mention the is, of course, ideal because of automatic train operation.

The MTA is already making efforts to improve passenger circulation at most of the shutdown stops (extra entrances and elevators and Bedford and 1st and new escalators and staircase realignment at Union Square). Platform doors have been proved in many cities to help with both passenger flow and reliability. What's stopping us? Quite frankly, I think they should test out half-height doors as well between Lorimer and either Myrtle-Wyckoff or Broadway Junction, considering these stops will be seeing far less traffic and are also quite busy stations during the rush hour. And they should fix the abhorrent wall tile situation at Sixth.

Come to think of it, there's quite a lot that Transit should do to take advantage of the Canarsie shutdown that they're simply not doing.

I can name 6 things so far the MTA can do during the shutdown but is refusing to do:

Elevators for all stations

PSDs

ESI or some other renovation for 6th

A possible third track at 8th to increase train turned per hour

More/wider passageways at Union Sq

 

I think that of all the stations, Union Sq can benefit most from PSDs. It gets dangerously overcrowded every day.

I agree with you on the PSD thing. The MTA is literally designing it to fail, probably because PSDs allow for more reliable OPTO, little need for vacuum trains, and a decrease of delays which will force some employees not to stand around, all things the union opposes. I really hope Byford can at least get elevators for at least 1st, 3rd and 6th.

 

[officiallyliam]

16 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I can name 6 things so far the MTA can do during the shutdown but is refusing to do:

Elevators for all stations

PSDs

ESI or some other renovation for 6th

A possible third track at 8th to increase train turned per hour

More/wider passageways at Union Sq

 

I think that of all the stations, Union Sq can benefit most from PSDs. It gets dangerously overcrowded every day.

I agree with you on the PSD thing. The MTA is literally designing it to fail, probably because PSDs allow for more reliable OPTO, little need for vacuum trains, and a decrease of delays which will force some employees not to stand around, all things the union opposes. I really hope Byford can at least get elevators for at least 1st, 3rd and 6th.

 

Yeah, agreed on all of those points. My Canarsie shutdown improvement plan would include the following:

• Accessibility / Elevators: An additional elevator at 8th Avenue (possibly replacing the ramp with escalators, which have higher capacity), ADA accessibility for 6th Avenue, 3rd Avenue, Lorimer Street and platforms, Grand Street, and DeKalb. (as well as 1st and Bedford, as planned). Platform height at all stations should be matched to the height of the train floor.
• Renovations: Full ESI-grade renovations 8th Avenue through Bedford, plus an ESA-lite program (that can be done without station closures, except for maybe weekends) for the rest of the line. Renovation of the Atlantic/ENY station complex to encourage Atlantic Branch and Freedom Ticket use.
• PSDs: Full-height doors from 8th to Bedford, half-height doors from Lorimer to Myrtle, provisions for half-height doors to Canarsie.
• Passenger Flow: Planned improvements at Union Square and Bedford, plus additional improvements to 8th Avenue.
• Infrastructure: Tail tracks at 8th Avenue, and a bay platform on the old structure at Atlantic to allow short-turns to be extended there. Plus, the MTA's planned upgrades to the power distribution system to allow more TPH.

 

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The Archer Av station design should have been used- large enough to accommodate large crowds and also tall to allow for more air circulation. The use of brick would make the station much more pleasant- the SAS stations are so drab due the lack of art on the platforms and color contrast.

And also not so damn deep... The whole line should have been at the same depth as 96th Street which was built with cut and cover...