BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They're just lower to the floor and the backs are lower, in addition to very little recline. That's what I get. For some people, the seatbelts dig into their backs. I'm on the express bus now on one of the old buses... On the new ones, I can barely squeeze in the row. It's crazy. Even the wheelchair rows have far less room. I asked them when I wrote today if the new Prevosts are shorter in length or what. It just doesn't make any sense to me to lose so much room.

I know you don't pay attention to specs and stuff, but yes the new Prevost cannot be compared to the older Prevost because its a completely different frame. Yes it might still be the same 45ft base platform, but it has a new frame, different window dimensions, and a smaller interior volume to account for newer electric, insulation and newer HVAC compartments. 

 

That's the main issue, the interior length is slightly smaller and they still wanted to keep the same 57 seat capacity. Apparently also the ADA door area is built differently to accommodate wheelchairs better so that spacing has been increased to accommodate bigger motor wheelchairs. So you know how x amount of rows need to be pushed back so wheelchairs can fit? They made that space wider, which means the all the fixed rows had their legroom decreased. 

The only thing is all the rows don't have the same amount of legroom, so I'm curious as to how they decided to space them out. 

The right side of the bus has more legroom overall because the 13 paired seats has more length to be divided along the span due to the boarding steps taking up less space compared to the drivers side taking up more space on the left side of the bus. The left side 13 rows have the worse legroom because of the drivers area. 

[paulrivera]

I haven't had the pleasure of riding the MTA Prevosts, but I have ridden the Boltbus Prevosts and one thing I've hated about the Prevosts in general is how the window is higher than your arm so you cant rest it against the window. Apparently that's a tradeoff for having a slightly taller cabin compared to the MCI...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I know you don't pay attention to specs and stuff, but yes the new Prevost cannot be compared to the older Prevost because its a completely different frame. Yes it might still be the same 45ft base platform, but it has a new frame, different window dimensions, and a smaller interior volume to account for newer electric, insulation and newer HVAC compartments. 

 

That's the main issue, the interior length is slightly smaller and they still wanted to keep the same 57 seat capacity. Apparently also the ADA door area is built differently to accommodate wheelchairs better so that spacing has been increased to accommodate bigger motor wheelchairs. So you know how x amount of rows need to be pushed back so wheelchairs can fit? They made that space wider, which means the all the fixed rows had their legroom decreased. 

The only thing is all the rows don't have the same amount of legroom, so I'm curious as to how they decided to space them out. 

The right side of the bus has more legroom overall because the 13 paired seats has more length to be divided along the span due to the boarding steps taking up less space compared to the drivers side taking up more space on the left side of the bus. The left side 13 rows have the worse legroom because of the drivers area. 

The photo above is me last night on a BxM18 (MCI bus). Now with the older Prevosts, I had to pick which seat I took on the righthand side more carefully, but with these newer Prevosts, it's just ridiculous, and there are people that are barely 5'0" complaining, and I'm 6'4". All I know is someone dropped the ball on this big time. Given what you've noted about the change in specs, there wouldn't appear to be room to make much changes to address the lack of legroom then, without sacrificing the number of seats.

The last time I got a new Prevost on the BxM1, I actually sat in one of the wheelchair seats, and the legroom there while much better, is still a lot less than what it would be on an MCI bus. What was the point of changing so many of the specs? Cheaper costs?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The photo above is me last night on a BxM18 (MCI bus). Now with the older Prevosts, I had to pick which seat I took on the righthand side more carefully, but with these newer Prevosts, it's just ridiculous, and there are people that are barely 5'0" complaining, and I'm 6'4". All I know is someone dropped the ball on this big time. Given what you've noted about the change in specs, there wouldn't appear to be room to make much changes to address the lack of legroom then, without sacrificing the number of seats.

The last time I got a new Prevost on the BxM1, I actually sat in one of the wheelchair seats, and the legroom there while much better, is still a lot less than what it would be on an MCI bus. What was the point of changing so many of the specs? Cheaper costs?

That's exactly why nothing is being done. You really can't do much unless you remove a row. The first row is chained off so if they really wanted to sacrifice and remove 4 seats permanently to adjust the legroom on the rest of the seats by an extra 2inches while still giving the driver some space, that could happen. But realistically its not gonna happen. 

Well in regard to specs all I know is MTA opted for the restyled X3-45 instead of the traditional one that is running on the X27/37/28/38 and a majority of the S.I. lines. I'm not sure about the reason with Prevost, but I assume less space=cheaper costs. The bus is still 45ft in length but it has more electrical amenities and a different engine/HVAC system so I guess that was the reasoning. 

I don't know what MCI does but they clearly emphasize comfort. 

Another reasons why I wish MTA and VanHool can come to terms. If MTA had a bulk order of CX-45s, mann drivers, maintenance and passengers would absolutely love them. Those are some solid coach buses and they are very comfortable. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's exactly why nothing is being done. You really can't do much unless you remove a row. The first row is chained off so if they really wanted to sacrifice and remove 4 seats permanently to adjust the legroom on the rest of the seats by an extra 2inches while still giving the driver some space, that could happen. But realistically its not gonna happen. 

Well in regard to specs all I know is MTA opted for the restyled X3-45 instead of the traditional one that is running on the X27/37/28/38 and a majority of the S.I. lines. I'm not sure about the reason with Prevost, but I assume less space=cheaper costs. The bus is still 45ft in length but it has more electrical amenities and a different engine/HVAC system so I guess that was the reasoning. 

I don't know what MCI does but they clearly emphasize comfort. 

Another reasons why I wish MTA and VanHool can come to terms. If MTA had a bulk order of CX-45s, mann drivers, maintenance and passengers would absolutely love them. Those are some solid coach buses and they are very comfortable. 

What infuriates me more is when Metro-North came out with new cars, commuters had a chance to try out the seats and provide feedback BEFORE they started with the new cars, so the result was, brighter, more comfortable cars with more legroom. On the express bus side, we're going in the opposite direction. Cramped seats, with poor lighting. The lighting definitely lacks on the new express buses, but I can live with that. It's the legroom that's a mess. 

Quote

"That the trains feel roomier, airier and brighter than their 1970s-era predecessors is more than an impression. The ceiling is arced instead of flat, and the cars are two inches wider than any other train now in use on Metro-North."

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/nyregion/02metro-north.html

[trainfan22]

There's an XD60 from BP on the shuttle today..

[R10 2952]

Whatever happened to those New Flyer D45 Vikings that NYCT used to run on the X51? 

[Railfanner Mario]

Apparently 5418 got into an accident and hit a tree (seems like it was on the  shuttle near Broadway Junction 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Railfanner Mario

[Lex]

42 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Whatever happened to those New Flyer D45 Vikings that NYCT used to run on the X51? 

They went to the Eastchester in the sky.

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, Railfanner Mario said:

Apparently 5418 got into an accident and hit a tree (seems like it was on the  shuttle near Broadway Junction 

So that's why I saw a bus parked on the sidewalk in that area!

[trainfan22]

19 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

So that's why I saw a bus parked on the sidewalk in that area!

Bus is still there with two Tow trucks, one MTA truck and another from an private contractor. Anyone got pics of the front or know how damaged the front of the bus is? 

 

 

I was too lazy go over there and look plus my shuttle bus was fairly empty with lots of seats (didn't want to stand)

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/nyregion/omny-nyc-subway-fare-capping.html

 

Starting in March....

Take the express bus 5 times, rest of the week is free. 

Take the local bus or subway 12 times, rest of the week is free. 

Do any type of mix and match and spend $33 within a week, the rest of the week is free. Faster you use up $33 on transit, the more free rides you can get for the rest of the week. 

If you use OMNY March 2, you have until March 9 to spend $33 commuting. If you spend $33 in between these dates, any extra rides are a free ride (long as you continue using the same OMNY payment type). The cycle restarts every 7 days from the first time you use OMNY after March 1st. 

 

I will definitely be taking advantage of this. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

5 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/nyregion/omny-nyc-subway-fare-capping.html

 

Starting in March....

Take the express bus 5 times, rest of the week is free. 

Take the local bus or subway 12 times, rest of the week is free. 

Do any type of mix and match and spend $33 within a week, the rest of the week is free. Faster you use up $33 on transit, the more free rides you can get for the rest of the week. 

If you use OMNY March 2, you have until March 9 to spend $33 commuting. If you spend $33 in between these dates, any extra rides are a free ride (long as you continue using the same OMNY payment type). The cycle restarts every 7 days from the first time you use OMNY after March 1st. 

 

I will definitely be taking advantage of this. 

$33 weekly for an express bus ride?

Guess I'm about to take advantage

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

4 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

$33 weekly for an express bus ride?

Guess I'm about to take advantage

Exactly...no where it excludes express buses. I'm just a bit confused to if the weeks will be fixed MTA weeks, or will they start when you make your first OMNY tap, and recycle every 7 days after that. 

 

Some interesting comments from that article...

"This scheme seems skewed in favor of high-income transit users in transit oases while discriminatory against populations living in transit deserts and otherwise necessarily thrifty with their decisions to hop on or off the bus or train. The essential worker transit commuter might benefit after a six-day workweek assuming they had the time or energy left to go on those free discretionary trips before the Sunday night reset. The answer to this otherwise noble pursuit would be to dip into that massive pile of cash that is the New York City municipal budget, now at $100 billion, that for all the mayoral cant about redistribution seems largely to go nowhere useful. Liquidate some of all that de Blasian lard sufficient to subsidize such a scheme more generously, perhaps a daily cap of three or four dollars. Then watch transit and the city bloom as we finally move past these unfortunate eight years."

"What’s to prevent fraud? Can a person pay for multiple people’s fares on the same card? If a tourist family of 5 all go through together on one card is their weekly fare going to be capped after a day? If someone stands at the turnstile selling fares for a dollar all day are those fares going to be free? Hopefully this doesn’t just create a new category of crime for the NYPD to deal with."

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

50 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Exactly...no where it excludes express buses. I'm just a bit confused to if the weeks will be fixed MTA weeks, or will they start when you make your first OMNY tap, and recycle every 7 days after that. 

 

Some interesting comments from that article...

"This scheme seems skewed in favor of high-income transit users in transit oases while discriminatory against populations living in transit deserts and otherwise necessarily thrifty with their decisions to hop on or off the bus or train. The essential worker transit commuter might benefit after a six-day workweek assuming they had the time or energy left to go on those free discretionary trips before the Sunday night reset. The answer to this otherwise noble pursuit would be to dip into that massive pile of cash that is the New York City municipal budget, now at $100 billion, that for all the mayoral cant about redistribution seems largely to go nowhere useful. Liquidate some of all that de Blasian lard sufficient to subsidize such a scheme more generously, perhaps a daily cap of three or four dollars. Then watch transit and the city bloom as we finally move past these unfortunate eight years."

"What’s to prevent fraud? Can a person pay for multiple people’s fares on the same card? If a tourist family of 5 all go through together on one card is their weekly fare going to be capped after a day? If someone stands at the turnstile selling fares for a dollar all day are those fares going to be free? Hopefully this doesn’t just create a new category of crime for the NYPD to deal with."

 

Even if the low-income family didn't had time on Sunday in that theoretical scenario.... they're assuming that everyone has only one job. There's a good chunk with multiple jobs too, so they'll cap out faster. Additionally, some may currently be paying two fares if they have to transfer more than once, so they'll also cap out faster too. 

Additionally, if there's no distinction between local and express bus usage here (with the cap), there's a possibility that those people could potentially benefit from a faster trip (reducing commute times and the hassle that brings). To say it's skewed towards high-income riders is a stretch, and if I were to be honest, that kinda sounds like some SJW shit. 

To the "fraud" comment...realistically, how many cards are even used like that with the existing system? The fact that you wouldn't have to pay upfront wouldn't necessarily mean significantly more people would all of a sudden go out and use the card. The people selling dates would continue to do so because the operation wouldn't be much different from the existing unlimited Metrocards. 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Even if the low-income family didn't had time on Sunday in that theoretical scenario.... they're assuming that everyone has only one job. There's a good chunk with multiple jobs too, so they'll cap out faster. Additionally, some may currently be paying two fares if they have to transfer more than once, so they'll also cap out faster too. 

Additionally, if there's no distinction between local and express bus usage here (with the cap), there's a possibility that those people could potentially benefit from a faster trip (reducing commute times and the hassle that brings). To say it's skewed towards high-income riders is a stretch, and if I were to be honest, that kinda sounds like some SJW shit. 

To the "fraud" comment...realistically, how many cards are even used like that with the existing system? The fact that you wouldn't have to pay upfront wouldn't necessarily mean significantly more people would all of a sudden go out and use the card. The people selling dates would continue to do so because the operation wouldn't be much different from the existing unlimited Metrocards. 

 

It definitely is giving SJW. 

With the unlimited cards its hard to do that because of the 18min rule between swipes. OMNY doesn't have an unlimited option its only pay per ride so once people hit that spent $33 rule...does it switch to unlimited features/restrictions or will it just have an override option? I guess we'll learn more in the future. 

[Lex]

Sheer curiosity, but can some people do math?

The fare capping proposal requires one to spend the same amount per week as the (current) 7-Day Unlimited, which exceeds the price of the (current) 30-Day Unlimited while covering less time, and the only benefit (for now, though that may change by zone once the railroads get involved) is the use of the express buses, something that shouldn't even be restricted from the aforementioned passes in the first place. In other words, a cap set that high is ripping you off.

[QM1to6Ave]

7 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/nyregion/omny-nyc-subway-fare-capping.html

 

Starting in March....

Take the express bus 5 times, rest of the week is free. 

Take the local bus or subway 12 times, rest of the week is free. 

Do any type of mix and match and spend $33 within a week, the rest of the week is free. Faster you use up $33 on transit, the more free rides you can get for the rest of the week. 

If you use OMNY March 2, you have until March 9 to spend $33 commuting. If you spend $33 in between these dates, any extra rides are a free ride (long as you continue using the same OMNY payment type). The cycle restarts every 7 days from the first time you use OMNY after March 1st. 

 

I will definitely be taking advantage of this. 

@Via Garibaldi 8 this sounds way too good to be true for express buses. Any official word on this from your sources? 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

42 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 this sounds way too good to be true for express buses. Any official word on this from your sources? 

Apparently it's only for the subway, my apologies. Article wasn't clear but they only referred to the subway plenty of times. It's a subway only trial it seems. 

 

After reading yesterday about what the LIRR is doing with fares within the city limits, and then seeing this article, express came to mind even though they didn't exclude it, but they also didn't mention it. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, Lex said:

Sheer curiosity, but can some people do math?

The fare capping proposal requires one to spend the same amount per week as the (current) 7-Day Unlimited, which exceeds the price of the (current) 30-Day Unlimited while covering less time, and the only benefit (for now, though that may change by zone once the railroads get involved) is the use of the express buses, something that shouldn't even be restricted from the aforementioned passes in the first place. In other words, a cap set that high is ripping you off.

I'm confused. Isn't a weekly pass over $120?

5 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Apparently it's only for the subway, my apologies. Article wasn't clear but they only referred to the subway plenty of times. It's a subway only trial it seems. 

After reading yesterday about what the LIRR is doing with fares within the city limits, and then seeing this article, express came to mind even though they didn't exclude it, but they also didn't mention it. 

Do you mind copy-pasting the article? It's behind a paywall.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

2 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

Do you mind copy-pasting the article? It's behind a paywall.

To Win Riders Back, M.T.A. to Offer Free Rides for ‘Tap-and-Go’ Customers

Transit leaders hope to boost ridership by putting a weekly fare cap on trips made with the subway’s new “tap-and-go” payment system.

Transit officials hope that bringing weekly discounts to the OMNY system will save people money and get them to ride more.

By Ana Ley

Dec. 13, 2021, 5:00 a.m. ET

Eager to push New York City’s subway ridership closer to prepandemic levels, transit officials are planning to entice commuters back with convenience and discounts.

Starting March 1, officials intend to put a weekly fare cap on trips made with OMNY, the “tap-and-go” fare system that was introduced two years ago. Riders who use OMNY now pay the regular $2.75 fare for every trip, but under the proposed change, users would get unlimited rides once they hit a $33 threshold during a seven-day period — equivalent to the cost of a weekly unlimited MetroCard.

The plan would start as a four-month pilot and discounts would end on June 30, though Janno Lieber, the acting chairman and chief executive of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subway, said he hoped it would become permanent based, in part, on how popular it proves and how it affects the M.T.A.’s budget.

The proposal is being announced Monday and will be voted on by the M.T.A.’s board at its meeting on Wednesday. Mr. Lieber said he expected the board to approve the fare plan.

 

“We want to make sure that somebody who is standing in front of the turnstile for their first commute on Monday morning who might not have the 33 bucks to outlay for a weekly ticket doesn’t have to worry about that,” Mr. Lieber said. “A lot of people don’t know when they get on their first ride of the week whether they’re going to be using it 10 times or 11 times or 20 times.”

The seven-day period would begin at 12 a.m. on Monday and end at 11:59 p.m. on Sunday, M.T.A. officials said.

Ridership trends, Mr. Lieber added, have been upended by the pandemic, which has made what were once everyday habits unpredictable.

Transit advocates said the change would save many New Yorkers money at a time when the subway is trying to lure back riders who abandoned the system at the start of the pandemic early last year. Public transit agencies across the country and in other parts of the world are still struggling to find ways to bring riders back.

Although the numbers in New York are climbing, subway ridership in recent weeks has only been hovering at about 58 percent of prepandemic levels, when over five million people packed the trains every weekday.

 

The M.T.A. has been stabilized by billions of dollars in federal pandemic assistance, but its long-term financial outlook depends heavily on the return of riders and their fares, which make up the agency’s largest funding source. Nearly 40 percent of the agency’s operating revenue comes from fares, a higher percentage than most other major public transit systems in the country.

 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority relies on fares to finance about 40 percent of its operating budget, more than most major transit systems in the United States.

“Fare capping is absolutely a program whose time has come, and it’s going to benefit so many riders,” said Lisa Daglian, the executive director of the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to the M.T.A., a watchdog group. “It levels the playing field.”

With OMNY — short for One Metro New York — riders can tap a credit card, smartphone or OMNY card on an electronic reader to access the subway, a more modern fare system that many other public transit systems around the world have already adopted. OMNY readers are available at all 472 subway stations and on all 5,800 buses, and fare capping would apply to both modes of transportation.

“If I do happen to ride enough in a week tapping my card and I get a free ride out of it, I wouldn’t turn that down,” said Amy Kowell, 32, who lives in Brooklyn and works in the financial district in Lower Manhattan. “It’s definitely appealing.”

Ms. Kowell, who was entering the Parkside Avenue station in Brooklyn on her way to go shopping on Saturday, said the subway is the main way she gets around the city and that she likes OMNY because it spares her the trouble of making sure she has a MetroCard with enough of a balance. Depending on her schedule, she said, she typically takes about 10 to 15 trips per week.

The M.T.A. introduced the system in May 2019 on a handful of subway and bus routes. Today, Mr. Lieber said, more than 25 percent of all fare payments are made using the OMNY system.

 

By 2023, it will fully replace the transit system’s floppy yellow-and-blue MetroCards.

While capping the fare would add convenience and could save money for commuters who rely on single-fare rides, advocates caution that there are still drawbacks, pointing out that many low-income people do not have bank accounts or smartphones.

An OMNY card is also more expensive than a MetroCard — $5 compared with $1. It was unclear how fare capping would work with the city’s Fair Fares program, which provides certain low-income New Yorkers a 50 percent discount on public transit rides.

“Some of the broader issues around OMNY haven’t been discussed enough with regard to low-income New Yorkers,” said Emerita Torres, the vice president of policy, research and advocacy at the Community Service Society of New York, an antipoverty group. “That’s something that we have to study and really look at.”

Rosalino Tlatelpa said even if the fares were capped he would not use OMNY because he finds it too confusing. Mr. Tlatelpa, 76, and his wife, Rosa, are retired and receive about $1,100 per month in government aid.

“I don’t like it,” Mr. Tlatelpa said in Spanish as he and his wife entered the Parkside Avenue station to travel to a Covid-19 vaccine appointment.

Implementing the fare capping plan on a trial basis might result in a loss of fare revenue of $3 million to $5 million per month, Mr. Lieber said, but that could be offset with higher subway ridership.

People might be less hesitant about using the subway if they don’t have to do any math to figure out how much they are spending, Mr. Lieber said.

“It becomes more routine,” he said. “As you make the fare payment system easier and more rational and fairer, people tend to use it a little bit more rather than looking at every nickel and dime.”

[Lex]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'm confused. Isn't a weekly pass over $120?

That's the monthly ($127 for 30 days). The weekly (no express bus) is $33, which comes out to $132 across 28 days.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

That's the monthly ($127 for 30 days). The weekly (no express bus) is $33, which comes out to $132 across 28 days.

But to be fair, those four weeklies don't have to be used consecutively. So for a few extra dollars, you gain a bit of flexibility.

[Lil 57]

Just took the Sim23 today for the first (and probably last time I take it when it’s operated by academy) and instead of the typical van-hools that have metro card readers we got an NJT contracted bus (bus was free due to this). The sign even said X23 on it, just wondering how rare it is to have non metrocard farebox equipped buses running  on the Sim23/24 

[Lawrence St]

13 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Just took the Sim23 today for the first (and probably last time I take it when it’s operated by academy) and instead of the typical van-hools that have metro card readers we got an NJT contracted bus (bus was free due to this). The sign even said X23 on it, just wondering how rare it is to have non metrocard farebox equipped buses running  on the Sim23/24 

Lmao no wonder they aren't collecting fares.