BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

It's happening guys:http://web.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/Q70SBS.html

Here's the schedule as well:http://web.mta.info/busco/schedules/q070scur.pdf

They posted the updated map as well: http://web.mta.info/nyct/maps/busqns.pdf

[DetSMART45]

Well, FWIW, the MTA is looking into having a separate Friday schedule for its routes (which I would fully support). 

Yep, sounds like some good thinking on their part.  They should follow-through completely, though, and possibly add evening/late-night trips where needed as well due to more people being out later.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, FWIW, the MTA is looking into having a separate Friday schedule for its routes (which I would fully support). 

 

 

I'd also support this 1000%.

 

I know someone that travels from Pelham Bay to Fordham Plaza at ~4pm during the week on the 12. He says Monday thru Thursday he can do the commute in 30 minutes on the SBS. The same trip on Fridays takes him 45 minutes between the extra car traffic and the crowds.

 

On Friday Afternoons, people leave work earlier, the kids go socializing with their friends/their parents take them out for dinner, and college kids that live out of town either go home for the weekend or also go out with their friends. Ergo, the streets get slammed, the buses get crammed, and the trains get packed on Fridays vs. on Monday-Thursday because everyone's traveling at the same time on Fridays.

 

 

Yep, sounds like some good thinking on their part.  They should follow-through completely, though, and possibly add evening/late-night trips where needed as well due to more people being out later.

I don't support this because a separate Friday route would likely mean cuts.  They're not doing this to add more service (trust me).

[DetSMART45]

I don't support this because a separate Friday route would likely mean cuts.  They're not doing this to add more service (trust me).

Understand the skepticism, but if looked at in an overall context, it should be a good idea.  How it is executed, ah that's where the problems begin.

 

Shifting times should not result in cuts.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Understand the skepticism, but if looked at in an overall context, it should be a good idea.  How it is executed, ah that's where the problems begin.

 

Shifting times should not result in cuts.

When it comes to bus service overall, the has been looking to cut more than anything else. For quite some time they would not send out buses when drivers called out sick, so you would have trips unfilled and then they would cut them officially citing poor ridership. Well yes it's hard to ride a bus that doesn't come...

[paulrivera]

When it comes to bus service overall, the has been looking to cut more than anything else. For quite some time they would not send out buses when drivers called out sick, so you would have trips unfilled and then they would cut them officially citing poor ridership. Well yes it's hard to ride a bus that doesn't come...

Not just when a driver calls out sick; when a bus breaks down they tend to abandon the interval instead of replacing the bus on the schedule it broke down on.

[Around the Horn]

I'd support a Friday schedule for the subway, particularly if they add rush hour service earlier. Many commuter railroads add special Friday trips during the "shoulder" periods, around 3 in the afternoon, since people leave work earlier. Add more frequent service later in the evening for the nighttime crowd, and I'd be all for it

[GojiMet86]

Many private bus companies have a separate Friday schedule as well.

[B35 via Church]

I'm with VG8 on this... I don't support separate Friday schedules either across the board; not in a public transportation system that's this extensive... Smaller operations partake in that very thing, and for all I care, it can stay that way.....

 

I don't support this because a separate Friday route would likely mean cuts.  They're not doing this to add more service (trust me).

While what Paulrivera says is true (post #18603, last paragraph specifically), I sincerely concur with this train of thought you present.... I'm not being fooled that the MTA all of a sudden cares about how promptly riders get to/from their destinations because the real is, is that they DON'T..... They would like for the riding public to believe that the notion of Friday scheduling would be for their benefits....

 

If anything, they'd look to suppress resources on fridays, considering paul's points....Putting this another way, a friday schedule on some route would resemble saturday scheduling on that same route.... An early start to the weekend, as far as scheduling goes.... If people generally feel that way about fridays, then why should we (MTA I'm talking about) continue to provide MTWR service levels on Fridays....

 

Best case scenario I see, would be to have the current # of trips on a given route left alone (this by itself gives the illusion that there will be no cuts) - but frontloaded b/w the [early afternoon] & [end of PM rush hour] slots.... This means that service during the AM rush, midday, and night service (after the PM rush) would be significantly affected - esp. on some routes more than others.... Otherwise, there's going to be schedule-wide cuts (losses) across the board, even if it's by one or two trips.... There's not going to be this bonanza of service, like friday is a new day of the week or something - and that is for damn sure....

 

Regardless, I don't like this one bit, not one bit.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm with VG8 on this... I don't support separate Friday schedules either across the board; not in a public transportation system that's this extensive... Smaller operations partake in that very thing, and for all I care, it can stay that way.....

 

 

While what Paulrivera says is true (post #18603, last paragraph specifically), I sincerely concur with this train of thought you present.... I'm not being fooled that the MTA all of a sudden cares about how promptly riders get to/from their destinations because the real is, is that they DON'T..... They would like for the riding public to believe that the notion of Friday scheduling would be for their benefits....

 

If anything, they'd look to suppress resources on fridays, considering paul's points....Putting this another way, a friday schedule on some route would resemble saturday scheduling on that same route.... An early start to the weekend, as far as scheduling goes.... If people generally feel that way about fridays, then why should we (MTA I'm talking about) continue to provide MTWR service levels on Fridays....

 

Best case scenario I see, would be to have the current # of trips on a given route left alone (this by itself gives the illusion that there will be no cuts) - but frontloaded b/w the [early afternoon] & [end of PM rush hour] slots.... This means that service during the AM rush, midday, and night service (after the PM rush) would be significantly affected - esp. on some routes more than others.... Otherwise, there's going to be schedule-wide cuts (losses) across the board, even if it's by one or two trips.... There's not going to be this bonanza of service, like friday is a new day of the week or something - and that is for damn sure....

 

Regardless, I don't like this one bit, not one bit.....

Exactly and any service they added earlier would mean cuts elsewhere, so people that travel later would be screwed. What people don't realize is the old days with the being uber generous with bus service is over so the cuts they make somewhere likely won't be used to improve service elsewhere, and no, putting in a bus when a line is severely overcrowded is not an improvement. It is just addressing a need.

 

The is looking to see where they can reduce operation costs by cutting service to counter the increase in labor costs, and when they talk about how they are maximizing costs, what they are really talking about is how they're squeezing the hell out of bus service and screwing over riders. Just look at most of the new routes that are out and what has been restored. There is a pattern. In fact I see more and more local bus lines following the frequencies of express buses, running no more than every 15 - 20 mins tops. That is not something to be encouraging them to do. Thinking about how it further, that is another reason they likely wanted BusTime. You can run more bus lines with less service and argue that people won't mind the frequencies since they can see where their bus is, and there is some truth to that, but it too has led to fewer people taking buses.

 

In short if people think that the fares won't go up because the makes service cuts they are sadly mistaken. We will continue to pay more and get less service overall, not just with the buses, but with the subway too.

 

Finally, be ready to see more artics on more lines. Another way to run less service, buy fewer buses, cut back on fuel and more importantly, cut back on the number of drivers needed...

Edited September 25, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

The shuttles today were very interesting... Buses came all the way from Casey Stengel, Queens Village, and Ulmer Park, along with other MaBSTOA depots.

[Around the Horn]

They posted the updated map as well: http://web.mta.info/nyct/maps/busqns.pdf

The MTA missed a golden opportunity to use that teal "LaGuardia Link" color on the map.

 

Having both the M60 and the Q70 in the same color is pretty confusing.

 

Also the timetable use a glossy paper, I've never seen the MTA use before.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Around the Horn

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The MTA missed a golden opportunity to use that teal "LaGuardia Link" color on the map.

 

Having both the M60 and the Q70 in the same color is pretty confusing.

 

Also the timetable use a glossy paper, I've never seen the MTA use before.

Well for that to happen, they would have to change the color of both the Q48 and Q69, since they're a similar color to what the Q70 SBS would have used. Perhaps a purple color for the Q69 and red for the Q48 would have sufficed.

 

Side Note: They also changed the Q49 to red, which was the original color the route had (dating back to the Q19B days) before it was changed.

Edited September 25, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[Around the Horn]

Well for that to happen, they would have to change the color of both the Q48 and Q69, since they're a similar color to what the Q70 SBS would have used. Perhaps a purple color for the Q69 and red for the Q48 would have sufficed.

 

Side Note: They also changed the Q49 to red, which was the original color the route had (dating back to the Q19B days) before it was changed.

The odd part is the Service Guide on the back uses the teal color.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The odd part is the Service Guide on the back uses the teal color.

Well, they can always place it on the map for next time, if they choose to do so. IDK the probability of that occurring, though.

[Around the Horn]

Well, they can always place it on the map for next time, if they choose to do so. IDK the probability of that occurring, though.

I'll mock it up and see if it looks good.

[B35 via Church]

Let's see how long it'll take for an SBS route to be colorized on the bus map as anything other than the traditional shade of blue....

(yes, there is an underlying point in this statement)

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't support this because a separate Friday route would likely mean cuts.  They're not doing this to add more service (trust me).

 

A point brought up at one of the meetings for the SI Bus Study was that on Fridays and days before major holiday weekends, you would have people getting out of work early at like 1PM or 2PM, and they would basically all be piling on the X1 because the rush hour variants wouldn't have started yet. (She used the X1 as an example because she lived around Dongan Hills I believe, but the same holds true for the other express routes). And then when the X2 starts running at 3PM, the first bus is full after like 2-3 stops and bypasses all the rest of the people, many of whom got out of work at like 1PM or 2PM.

 

So if those people are getting out a few hours early and taking earlier buses home, then there's a need for more buses in the earlier hours, and maybe slightly fewer buses in the traditional 4PM-7PM hours. On an infrequent route that runs every 20-30 minutes, it's not worth changing the schedule, but raising the headways from say, 5 minutes to 6 minutes if there's ~17% less people traveling during that slot makes sense to me.

 

And certain routes that have college students as a large portion of their ridership base see these fluctuations as well. Then there's also running time to consider: Traffic conditions can vary, with Friday mornings being a little better than the rest of the week, and Friday afternoons being worse.

 

The key is to make sure that the resources are properly reinvested. I'd be happy to accept a slight reduction in S93 service (which I do use to get to work) if it meant that my neighborhood has a route closer than the routes along Richmond Avenue. 

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I was on the Bx38 on Sunday and at each stop an automated recording played that stated 'this is the Bx38 bus to Bay Plaza Co-op City via Gun hill Rd via Drieser Loop. This bus will not go to Section 5. Is this some oddball thing or are other buses also having such recordings play. FYI, the bus number was 8340.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

I was on the Bx38 on Sunday and at each stop an automated recording played that stated 'this is the Bx38 bus to Bay Plaza Co-op City via Gun hill Rd via Drieser Loop. This bus will not go to Section 5. Is this some oddball thing or are other buses also having such recordings play. FYI, the bus number was 8340.

 

One of the Gun Hill drivers plays the announcements using a text-to-speech app.

 

Here's a video of him using said app for the Bx26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5l9tIkeglE

Edited September 26, 2016 by r142a 7795

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A point brought up at one of the meetings for the SI Bus Study was that on Fridays and days before major holiday weekends, you would have people getting out of work early at like 1PM or 2PM, and they would basically all be piling on the X1 because the rush hour variants wouldn't have started yet. (She used the X1 as an example because she lived around Dongan Hills I believe, but the same holds true for the other express routes). And then when the X2 starts running at 3PM, the first bus is full after like 2-3 stops and bypasses all the rest of the people, many of whom got out of work at like 1PM or 2PM.

 

So if those people are getting out a few hours early and taking earlier buses home, then there's a need for more buses in the earlier hours, and maybe slightly fewer buses in the traditional 4PM-7PM hours. On an infrequent route that runs every 20-30 minutes, it's not worth changing the schedule, but raising the headways from say, 5 minutes to 6 minutes if there's ~17% less people traveling during that slot makes sense to me.

 

And certain routes that have college students as a large portion of their ridership base see these fluctuations as well. Then there's also running time to consider: Traffic conditions can vary, with Friday mornings being a little better than the rest of the week, and Friday afternoons being worse.

 

The key is to make sure that the resources are properly reinvested. I'd be happy to accept a slight reduction in S93 service (which I do use to get to work) if it meant that my neighborhood has a route closer than the routes along Richmond Avenue. 

And that's my point (and I gather B35's point too from what he's posted).  I'm not so sold that the will actually reinvest the resources as it should.  They want to cut. They're not interested in reinvesting because they're too concerned with overhead costs/labor costs. Based on how they've run bus service overall since 2010, I'd argue that they're only analyzing schedules with cost in mind and not really concerned about how much customers benefit and bus riders can see what is going on.  Look at how they've cut bus service overnight.  Just about all of these changes aren't encouraging ridership. They are encouraging people to use other alternatives.  

Edited September 26, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[SubBus]

I see that the Broadway Junction reconstruction is done. Let's see what type of law enforcement will be done to keep the cars out of the bus lanes.....

Also the new B12/25 Alabama Ave terminal is done as well.....

[SevenEleven]

I was on the Bx38 on Sunday and at each stop an automated recording played that stated 'this is the Bx38 bus to Bay Plaza Co-op City via Gun hill Rd via Drieser Loop. This bus will not go to Section 5. Is this some oddball thing or are other buses also having such recordings play. FYI, the bus number was 8340.

 

 

 

One of the Gun Hill drivers plays the announcements using a text-to-speech app.

 

Here's a video of him using said app for the Bx26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5l9tIkeglE

 

On all the buses, you can have a pre-recorded message play when the doors are opened.

[IAlam]

A point brought up at one of the meetings for the SI Bus Study was that on Fridays and days before major holiday weekends, you would have people getting out of work early at like 1PM or 2PM, and they would basically all be piling on the X1 because the rush hour variants wouldn't have started yet. (She used the X1 as an example because she lived around Dongan Hills I believe, but the same holds true for the other express routes). And then when the X2 starts running at 3PM, the first bus is full after like 2-3 stops and bypasses all the rest of the people, many of whom got out of work at like 1PM or 2PM.

 

So if those people are getting out a few hours early and taking earlier buses home, then there's a need for more buses in the earlier hours, and maybe slightly fewer buses in the traditional 4PM-7PM hours. On an infrequent route that runs every 20-30 minutes, it's not worth changing the schedule, but raising the headways from say, 5 minutes to 6 minutes if there's ~17% less people traveling during that slot makes sense to me.

 

And certain routes that have college students as a large portion of their ridership base see these fluctuations as well. Then there's also running time to consider: Traffic conditions can vary, with Friday mornings being a little better than the rest of the week, and Friday afternoons being worse.

 

The key is to make sure that the resources are properly reinvested. I'd be happy to accept a slight reduction in S93 service (which I do use to get to work) if it meant that my neighborhood has a route closer than the routes along Richmond Avenue. 

 

 

And that's my point (and I gather B35's point too from what he's posted).  I'm not so sold that the will actually reinvest the resources as it should.  They want to cut. They're not interested in reinvesting because they're too concerned with overhead costs/labor costs. Based on how they've run bus service overall since 2010, I'd argue that they're only analyzing schedules with cost in mind and not really concerned about how much customers benefit and bus riders can see what is going on.  Look at how they've cut bus service overnight.  Just about all of these changes aren't encouraging ridership. They are encouraging people to use other alternatives.  

 

 

Yeah i remember Labor Day Weekend and I took one on the late X15 buses outbound and it was empty. After talking to the driver he said the reason no one was on is cause everyone already left. Same thing applies to Half days for schools when kids get let out early the whole system gets f***ed. The schedule need to address travel needs and on Fridays you sometimes you need more service at 3-4pm and less from 6-7pm. I 100% get what you are worried about separating schedules can lead to service getting cut, but adjustments need to be made. Especially if everyone is trying to get home early and buses are only running every 20 minutes when they are needed every 5 minutes. 

[Around the Horn]

talking to the driver he said the reason no one was on is cause everyone already left. Same thing applies to Half days for schools when kids get let out early the whole system gets f***ed.

I agree with this 100%. The system goes to shit, whenever there is a half day. The B16 gets HAMMERED on half days. At the very least, the XN40's will need to be out on at least some of the Fort Hamilton HS school trippers.