For the First time, J/Z Ranks No. 1... 2 and C come in dead last

[FlushingExpress]

http://www.straphangers.org/statesub11/State%20of%20the%20Subways%202011_sm.pdf

 

Summer Report Card is here, J and Z come in at first, while the 2 and C comes in last, any thoughts?

 

very surprised that the ranked first, especially considering its long waits and very dirty cars based on my experience. Nonetheless, it runs very consistently because it does not share its tracks with any other train (except the for a short section), its R160As provide clear announcements and do not break down often. Your chance of getting a seat is high there because residents along its route hate it due to its low service, shorter trains, and long local route. They usually go to the nearby and trains, which have more frequent service and run express in Brooklyn and Queens, respectively, thus providing a faster trip to Manhattan (that is why the latter line is more crowded than the system average).

 

Not too surprised that the and ranked worst. A new report shows the R142/142As and R143s are now performing like they are 30 years old and if you compare this report to last year's one, the breakdown rates on 2, 4, 5, 6, and L lines all worsened. the 2 has always been prone to crowding and irregular service due to its extremely long route, sharing of tracks with other trains and it being the only line in the heart of the Bronx serving the West Side of Manahattan. The C still uses the system's oldest cars and waiting time is horrible, though I was surprised that it had the worst announcement quality of all lines. Of course since it does not run frequently, trains can be monitored for consistent service and the R32s look really clean and shiny.

 

I was not very surprised at the drop in regularity of service system-wide, especially on the Broadway Line, where the ®'s regularities all dropped by at least 10% after the was eliminated. The Broadway Line has been plagued with delays and bunching due to the three lines splitting and re-merging at different points in both directions. The control tower at DeKalb Avenue is a factor as to why consistent service has also dropped for the ( and .

 

I find it hard to believe that the 4 is rated lower than the 5.

 

Looking at the report, the is more crowded and breaks down much more frequently than the (not too surprising since it runs between the Bronx and Brooklyn at all times while the 5 only runs to Bowling Green on weekends and is a shuttle during late hours) and its cars are slightly dirtier and provide poorer announcements.

 

The 5 is the only other IRT line to rank worst in the history of the report (in 2000 and 2003 before the R142s took over that line).

 

the orange M takes forever to get to 2nd Ave on a weekend because the M doesn't go to 2nd Ave to begin with.

 

i find it hard to believe how the J/Z can be better than the 7...I doubt the J runs 5 minute headways on weekends.

 

Despite its reroute to 6th Avenue, the still has very low service, lower than the it replaced. In fact, they could not even give it a rating this year due to this change. Ha!

 

The (7)'s rating dropped from last year because trains ran more irregularly (74% compared to 93% in 2010), were dirtier, and provided poorer announcements. Also, the report does not calculate weekend service.

 

The IRT lines all rate above average for frequency yet the bottom 5 in reliability consists entirely of IRT lines. I don't know why this correlation exists but I would take the high frequency line over the slightly more reliable line any day of the week. .

 

the fact the IRT lines run more frequently is why they are less reliable. The more often trains run, the harder it is to stop bunching or gaps in service. Also, most of the IRT lines share tracks for most of the route while the BMT/IND lines only share tracks in Manhattan.

 

I would like all of you to take a GOOD LOOK at the 5 top lines in Breakdown(MDBF) rate and the top IRT line in that category as well. No more shit talking about NTT's on this forum please.

 

People who shit talk about the NTTs are just jealous that they are replacing their favorite old cars, not realizing that their time to retire is now. Every subway car the R160s replaced were in pretty lousy shape, the R42s and R44s being the worst. They have proved to be a huge upgrade for the lines they serve. If we were all born 10 years earlier or later, we would not have all this NTT bashing going on.

 

 

All the 'seat chance' category does is lower the rating of the lines that are bigger ASSETS to the system because of heavy ridership. It's also not surprising to see that the NTT lines rank poorly in it for the most part. That is one reason why the ratings don't really matter to me.

 

Lines with the NTTs have higher ridership, especially the IRT Lines, Queens Boulevard Express, and Canarsie, than those with non NTT cars. The only exceptions are the and . I already mentioned why the former is not very crowded, but the reason the latter is fairly empty is because it gets help from the in Brooklyn and in Manhattan and Queens.

 

I find it odd that the C ranks at the top in cleanliness while it's yardmate and express cousin the A ranks second to last there.

 

the more crowded a train is, the dirtier it will become. Also, the runs at all times and its the system's longest line while the stops running at midnight

 

The B happens to have a bottom 5 frequency and a top 5 seat chance. Those two don't go together so I don't know how that was pulled off.

 

The fact that the B does not run very frequently is why it is not that crowded. No one wants to ride a train that has an long and almost entirely local route, 7-8 minute intervals during rush hours, last priority at the two junctions it goes through, and cars that used to be great, but now totally suck. The R68/68As' reliability has dropped dramatically in the past year as proven by the and (D)'s severely poorer breakdown rate (though they are still higher than the system average) and announcement quality in this report. Once again, the only thing that saved the B from ranking worst in the system was its high chance of getting a seat and when Brighton Express service is restored next month, I assure you that chance will drop significantly.

 

Ever since the started running local, Brighton riders have been riding the more because it runs more frequently and uses superior cars that break down much less often, are cleaner, and have better announcement quality. I will do the same thing when school starts on Friday. If those fat R68/68As go back to the , which I am sure some weirdos on this site want badly, it will not be as reliable.

[geoking66]

Strappies really needs to stop pointing out the obvious. Basically, it boils down to: old cars break down faster than newer ones, the Lex is crowded because it's the only line east of Fifth Avenue, the sucks because it's a long line from Wakefield to Flatbush Av, running local along most of its route and NTTs make better announcements with Bloomberg's gang doing most of the talking.

 

For the last time, the Bloomberg Radio announcements are a coincidence.

 

But seriously, the might not be great, but it's nowhere near that bad. The is far worse, with bad cars, crap frequencies, and a painfully-slow route. The is awful as well. At least the is an express with some pretty nice runs in Manhattan.

 

To me at least, it seems weird to rank the (J)/(Z) so highly. Yes, the cars may be nice, but ridership is also pretty low, so of course they'll be cleaner. Headways are also too long, but again I think this has to do more with ridership than anything else. The deserves to be at the top of this list almost every year based on a combination of frequency, rolling stock, and overall experience. Is it crowded? Yes, but it's completely ridiculous to grade on such a measure considering that at rush hour almost any train will be. For a 100-year-old system that is at saturation, the subway does a damn good job.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

For the last time, the Bloomberg Radio announcements are a coincidence.

 

But seriously, the might not be great, but it's nowhere near that bad. The is far worse, with bad cars, crap frequencies, and a painfully-slow route. The is awful as well. At least the is an express with some pretty nice runs in Manhattan.

 

To me at least, it seems weird to rank the (J)/(Z) so highly. Yes, the cars may be nice, but ridership is also pretty low, so of course they'll be cleaner. Headways are also too long, but again I think this has to do more with ridership than anything else. The deserves to be at the top of this list almost every year based on a combination of frequency, rolling stock, and overall experience. Is it crowded? Yes, but it's completely ridiculous to grade on such a measure considering that at rush hour almost any train will be. For a 100-year-old system that is at saturation, the subway does a damn good job.

 

Straphangers Campaign places a big emphasis on reliability. Which makes no sense to me because EVERY line in this system is vulnerable to a serious delay or service suspension. It only takes one messed up switch, some morons acting up or someone on the tracks. The stuff such as cleanliness, seat chance, breakdown rate and announcements are all dependent on the riders and car fleet. You don't learn much about lines from a report like this.

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Urbanfortitude]

Hahahahaha! line ranking first! Hahahaha! That's too much. People shouldn't joke like that!

 

 

no seriously...by whose standards did this one come from?

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Hahahahaha! line ranking first! Hahahaha! That's too much. People shouldn't joke like that!

 

 

no seriously...by whose standards did this one come from?

 

The standards of someone high on cocaine.

[chrisliz09]

I'm sorry to spill the beans, but the report is spot on about the and the . Both lines suck in terms of the frequency in which they run and as such are overcrowded. As far as I'm concerned, the ten worst lines in the city in no particular order are as follows:

 

(Frequencies suck).

(Thank God the runs okay because if it didn't it would really suck).

(Frequencies suck. Takes forever for a train to arrive in Manhattan).

( (Frequencies suck ROYALLY and the cars always stink, esp. in Manhattan since they are always overcrowded).

(Frequencies suck. It's always hit or miss on that line).

(Frequency is okay for the most part, but the cars suck).

(SLOW, SLOW, SLOW! The frequencies suck right along with the trains used on the line)

(filthy cars and the frequencies are HORRIBLE - 20 - 25 minutes for a friggin train on Saturday is RIDICULOUS!) :mad:

(runs okay, but the cars are rather dirty IMO)

(frequencies are TERRIBLE on weekends - takes forever to get to 2nd Avenue) :mad:

i dont disagree with you about the freq of most trains but i have been at 42nd st for a long time working as a security guard at a store there, i alot of times just wait at the station and watch the countdown clocks and im telling you this there is a train every 5 mins or so for the and i dont understand when they see it more than 15mins unless its late night, i will do a video for people can see what i see everyday morning rush and evening rush its trains in and out every 5 or so mins

[dman1455]

LOL! so many people ragging about old cars and bad service... uh you do know it's the MTA right? Just checking

 

Yeah guys you're all right! let's put MORE service on weekends when no one rides it! More Empty trains just so you can get a seat cause you're lazy! Nah you guys are SO smart you should work for the MTA...

 

This is why most of you won't be working for transit ever......

[chrisliz09]

LOL! so many people ragging about old cars and bad service... uh you do know it's the MTA right? Just checking

 

Yeah guys you're all right! let's put MORE service on weekends when no one rides it! More Empty trains just so you can get a seat cause you're lazy! Nah you guys are SO smart you should work for the MTA...

 

This is why most of you won't be working for transit ever......

i agree with that for the most part we dont need more just for people can be so happy and get what they want, the weekends are down days when they can do work but people dont understand that even people that lived here for years dont know more than one way too travel around this city. funny

[dman1455]

i agree with that for the most part we dont need more just for people can be so happy and get what they want, the weekends are down days when they can do work but people dont understand that even people that lived here for years dont know more than one way too travel around this city. funny

 

It's like if I miss a train or a bus I understand it's my fault sometimes. I don't cry that we need more service like some people..

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL! so many people ragging about old cars and bad service... uh you do know it's the MTA right? Just checking

 

Yeah guys you're all right! let's put MORE service on weekends when no one rides it! More Empty trains just so you can get a seat cause you're lazy! Nah you guys are SO smart you should work for the MTA...

 

This is why most of you won't be working for transit ever......

 

If you had a clue you would know that plenty of people need the system on the weekends because they work.

 

i agree with that for the most part we dont need more just for people can be so happy and get what they want, the weekends are down days when they can do work but people dont understand that even people that lived here for years dont know more than one way too travel around this city. funny

 

The weekends aren't down days. People don't just work Monday through Friday. It's just that the thinks of them as down days.

[dman1455]

If you had a clue you would know that plenty of people need the system on the weekends because they work.

 

 

 

The weekends aren't down days. People don't just work Monday through Friday. It's just that the thinks of them as down days.

 

People need to plan before they leave the house... How do you think the subway stays open 24/7... Less service = More work can be done!!

 

Most people are smart they can move around the planned service changes...\

 

BTW: I have a CLUE as you say I ride the train every weekend... BTW SIRT doesn't count brosky

[Roadcruiser1]

This is why the gives out mostly accurate time tables for each train line. Do people even bother to look?

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm sorry to spill the beans, but the report is spot on about the (2 and the (5. Both lines suck in terms of the frequency in which they run and as such are overcrowded. As far as I'm concerned, the ten worst lines in the city in no particular order are as follows:

 

2 (Frequencies suck).

5 (Thank God the runs okay because if it didn't it would really suck).

D (Frequencies suck. Takes forever for a train to arrive in Manhattan).

B (Frequencies suck ROYALLY and the cars always stink, esp. in Manhattan since they are always overcrowded).

A (Frequencies suck. It's always hit or miss on that line).

C (Frequency is okay for the most part, but the cars suck).

R (SLOW, SLOW, SLOW! The frequencies suck right along with the trains used on the line)

G (filthy cars and the frequencies are HORRIBLE - 20 - 25 minutes for a friggin train on Saturday is RIDICULOUS!) :mad:

3 (runs okay, but the cars are rather dirty IMO)

F (frequencies are TERRIBLE on weekends - takes forever to get to 2nd Avenue) :mad:

 

Coming from Staten Island, it's hard to say any subway line (except for maybe the G) has horrible frequencies.

 

Plus, for the most part, there are usually 2 routes per subway line when you're in Manhattan. (the 2/3, 4/5 and B/D)

 

My observations are based on this table.

http://www.straphangers.org/statesub11/TableThree.pdf

 

The B happens to have a bottom 5 frequency and a top 5 seat chance. Those two don't go together so I don't know how that was pulled off.

 

Based off of the comparison chart I would of named the E line as the top line.

 

The B has a low frequency because of it's lower ridership.

 

1) very surprised that the ranked first, especially considering its long waits and very dirty cars based on my experience. Nonetheless, it runs very consistently because it does not share its tracks with any other train (except the for a short section), its R160As provide clear announcements and do not break down often. Your chance of getting a seat is high there because residents along its route hate it due to its low service, shorter trains, and long local route. They usually go to the nearby and trains, which have more frequent service and run express in Brooklyn and Queens, respectively, thus providing a faster trip to Manhattan (that is why the latter line is more crowded than the system average).

 

2) I was not very surprised at the drop in regularity of service system-wide, especially on the Broadway Line, where the ®'s regularities all dropped by at least 10% after the was eliminated. The Broadway Line has been plagued with delays and bunching due to the three lines splitting and re-merging at different points in both directions. The control tower at DeKalb Avenue is a factor as to why consistent service has also dropped for the ( and .

 

 

1) The feels faster because of its express service, but in reality, the is slightly faster to get to Lower Manhattan.

 

Of course, the problem is that the only serve Lower Manhattan.

 

2) Although it benefitted me this past summer to have the run local on Broadway, I think it would be better if it ran express so it would get rid of one merge point (and the couple of trains saved could've been used to provide slightly more frequent service on the )

 

Straphangers Campaign places a big emphasis on reliability. Which makes no sense to me because EVERY line in this system is vulnerable to a serious delay or service suspension. It only takes one messed up switch, some morons acting up or someone on the tracks. The stuff such as cleanliness, seat chance, breakdown rate and announcements are all dependent on the riders and car fleet. You don't learn much about lines from a report like this.

 

Well, reliability is important when you're taking the train to work, and people do look for trends in the subway service when deciding where to move.

 

This is why the MTA gives out mostly accurate time tables for each train line. Do people even bother to look?

 

I didn't even know there were timetables until a few years ago.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

People need to plan before they leave the house... How do you think the subway stays open 24/7... Less service = More work can be done!!

 

Most people are smart they can move around the planned service changes...\

 

BTW: I have a CLUE as you say I ride the train every weekend... BTW SIRT doesn't count brosky

 

I'm not from Staten Island. I'm from Brooklyn so I'm very familiar with the subway system. Thank you very much.

 

This is why the gives out mostly accurate time tables for each train line. Do people even bother to look?

 

This is news to me. Where are these timetables at?? :confused: Maybe they need to make them more available and then people could plan better.

[NYtransit]

I wouldnt be suprised. ENY keeps the NTT's Squeaky clean. Even better then CI.

[N-Trizzy2609]

My reaction: Blame the yards, not the lines.

 

East NY Yard step it's game. I rode a R42 on the the other day and I was so happy to see it so clean not rusty for once, and IT MOVED. SMS maybe? And the R160s are looking good as well.

 

Pitkin is so busy fixing either a R46 or R32, they don't clean the trains and they let them run till they break.

[VIP]

ENY has definitely stepped their game up!! :tup::tup: Their trains are by far the cleanest out of any other yard. The R42's run fine but they are cleaner outside and on the inside. their R160 FIND's/LCD screens dont have as much Glitches as the other R160s in the system. As for the .... wow its Definitely cleaner than the but Those R32's dont belong on that line. 207th has to split those R32's from to so at least riders get some relief and a sense of variety...Like the trains, those lines have R42's but the R160's make the line bearable to ride.

[SubwayGuy]

Straphangers Campaign places a big emphasis on reliability. Which makes no sense to me because EVERY line in this system is vulnerable to a serious delay or service suspension. It only takes one messed up switch, some morons acting up or someone on the tracks. The stuff such as cleanliness, seat chance, breakdown rate and announcements are all dependent on the riders and car fleet. You don't learn much about lines from a report like this.

 

A big problem with this report is that it does not distinguish the causes of delays. If the last 5 train to Manhattan of the night jacks up, and 6 4 trains behind it get delayed...this tells you the 4 is the unreliable line.

 

I can't speak for the B division since I haven't ridden all those lines within the past 12 months, but at least for the IRT it's safe to say in terms of best to worst (AKA these are MY rankings):

 

NOTE: you're not getting a seat really on any of these lines during the rush...

 

Service Frequency: 5/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 4/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 2/5

Announcements: 5/5

 

Frequent service. Cars have their share of issues but usually can remain in service. Service tends to bunch occasionally, requiring trains to get skipped. Service disruptions are usually catastrophic to the 6 line. NTT announcements.

 

Service Frequency: 5/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 5/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 1/5

Announcements: 3/5

 

Frequent service. Cars have some issues but are generally reliable. Service tends to be reliable and very well run, however, this line is the least prepared to withstand service disruptions with no real feasible travel alternatives except at Queensboro Plaza and 74th St. Quality of announcements depends if the conductor is speaking into the mic, which generally on this line they are since you never know who might be watching.

 

Service Frequency: 4/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 4/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 2/5

Announcements: 4/5

 

Frequent service, although not as often as the 6 or 7. Generally reliable fleet usually good to stay in service. Service tends to run at normal headways, although things will be delayed often. The line generally functions well when there is a service disruption. NTT announcements, but on some trains the announcement plays at the wrong time, or doesn't play at all.

 

Service Frequency: 5/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 3/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 2/5

Announcements: 2/5

 

Very frequent service, though not quite as often as the 6 or 7. Generally reliable fleet (best of the R62A's). Service tends to run OK at close headways, but there are often signal problems on the line, as well as bunching of trains which knocks down the score. The line is limited in its alternative routes if there is a service disruption. Announcements vary...some are great, some are poor...depends on who is the conductor.

 

Service Frequency: 3/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 4/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 3/5

Announcements: 3/5

 

Least frequent service in the IRT. Reliable fleet undergoing SMS and getting new switch groups. Service is generally reliable on the 3. The line can usually work around disruptions. Announcements tend to be OK on this line.

 

Service Frequency: 4/5

Reliability of Fleet: 5/5

Reliability of Service: 3/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 2/5

Announcements: 5/5

 

Frequent service. Most reliable fleet in the IRT. Service is generally not reliable, particularly with ongoing work in the Bronx. When they occur, problems on the Nostrand Avenue extension destroy this line's reliability in Brooklyn.

 

Service Frequency: 4/5

Reliability of Fleet: 4/5

Reliability of Service: 2/5

Withstand Service Disruptions: 2/5

Announcements: 5/5

 

Frequent service. Good, reliable fleet. Service is somewhat unreliable. Trains tend to bunch and some of the schedules are a bit tight given travel times and loading expectations along the route, which no doubt contributes to the sensibility of "lateness". The line is limited in its options in case of a diversion and has been affected by Bronx construction also. Same as with the , problems along the Nostrand Avenue extension, when they occur, destroy this line's reliability.

[TwoTimer]

I operate the ( a lot and this is why its not crowded. First with it local in bk (yes I know that will change) theres a lot of trains on the brighton with seats. Midwood and sheepshead bay are less dense then sunset park and bensonhurst. The q goes all the way to coney so people going past brighton dont even bother getting on the b. The limited bedford park service makes it basically empty by columbus circle when its not going into the bronx. There are other nearby lines serving the upper west side and morningside heights too.

[chrisliz09]

If you had a clue you would know that plenty of people need the system on the weekends because they work.

 

 

 

The weekends aren't down days. People don't just work Monday through Friday. It's just that the thinks of them as down days.

yea i work on the weekends too all the time and some how i make it with no problems at all ever, i check online for the update on service changes and pay attention the the announcements that are clear all the time now, but this system needs too be worked on and just because we use it over the weekend doesnt mean they cant work on it or shouldnt. if that was to be than this system will be trash we need them too work and over the weekend is the best time too do it. i never been to a city that didnt do work over the weekends we are so spoiled here its sad

[Mysterious2train]

No one is disputing that construction work must be done on weekends. It's just it, in my opinion at least, construction work is a pretty weak excuse to reduce frequencies.

 

Especially because, even when that particular line is not undergoing construction, it's still going to have the reduced service.

 

One particular example of empty ( trains is the beginning of PM Rush Hour. The first ( trains to and from the Bronx don't reach 145th St until about 4:15 PM. Until then, you have trains arriving, terminating and leaving on the middle track mostly empty while trains leave packed in both directions.

 

The should really think about starting afternoon service to the Bronx a half hour earlier or so.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

yea i work on the weekends too all the time and some how i make it with no problems at all ever, i check online for the update on service changes and pay attention the the announcements that are clear all the time now, but this system needs too be worked on and just because we use it over the weekend doesnt mean they cant work on it or shouldnt. if that was to be than this system will be trash we need them too work and over the weekend is the best time too do it. i never been to a city that didnt do work over the weekends we are so spoiled here its sad

 

Oh please... We are far from spoiled. I do everything to avoid using the subway on the weekends because of the mirage of changes and constant track work. There is nothing wrong with track work on the weekends, but rather how it is coordinated, which is terribly.

[Urbanfortitude]

Oh please... We are far from spoiled. I do everything to avoid using the subway on the weekends because of the mirage of changes and constant track work. There is nothing wrong with track work on the weekends, but rather how it is coordinated, which is terribly.

 

this ^ & btw thanks for replying before me because I had no idea what he was saying.