The MTA heading your way with good news!

[cotb16]

Three things:

 

1] As was already pointed out, why shouldn't the western portion of Hunts Point have direct access to Manhattan?

 

2) You would benefit more patrons in that part of Hunts Point if you had the route turn on Spofford instead of Lafayette..... Guaranteed.

 

3] There's really no need to compromise the current Bx6's headways like that - Just for the sake of having a partial clone that doesn't [serve manhattan (where a large enough portion of the route's users are taking it to/from)] and [serves another part of Hunts Point]..... You can still combine headways and not have the frequency of each route (6's-to-6a's) be 50/50 all day

 

 

I don't have a problem with what you're attempting to do..... it's more how you're going about doing it.....

All you have to do is have both routes (6/6a) run from manhattan, and then have them diverge w/i Hunts Point (the neighborhood) themselves...... If you want to short turn some Bx6 service at Yankee stadium, that can still be done......

 

 

The western portion of Hunts Point is industrial, not residential. Most of the workers would transfer to the bus from the nearest subways, such as the , , and .

 

I would still do the short-turns to Yankee Stadium in order to improve the crowding between that point and Southern Blvd.

[Shortline Bus]

LOL.... Nice way to avoid answering the question... Nothing has nothing to do with anything...

 

----

EDIT: Still waiting to hear from Princelex... He's suddenly become stricken with silence...

 

 

Princelex works as a subway conductor so he not home all the time. And keep in mind, he lives in COOP area.

[B35 via Church]

LOL.... Nice way to avoid answering the question... Nothing has nothing to do with anything...

 

I'm not answering your illogical questions to make things easier for you......

 

First it's this notion that, since I agree w/ Princelex in saying he has a legitimate gripe regarding the local bus cuts in co-op city, you wanna try to somehow tie that to me not caring about or considering another community.....

 

Now it's, since I brought up the excuse of the elderly in another post, that must somehow mean that I don't care or consider the cuts of other communities..... since you can't get me to answer your agenda driven questions talking about:

 

"Meanwhile folks in Co-op HAVE some local bus service and have bus service overnight and I don't hear anyone talking about folks taking a taxi or any of that. They've got a legitimate gripe, but other communities don't? Is that the idea?"

"So you have a problem with a community that is pretty much covered service wise losing some service while other communities still have none is that the idea"

----------------

 

 

 

The western portion of Hunts Point is industrial, not residential.

 

I don't see what you are saying.... There are residences over/around Spofford, west of Hunts Point av....

[checkmatechamp13]

Still waiting to hear from Princelex... He's suddenly become stricken with silence...

 

 

He hasn't been on since 3:31PM. People have lives outside of this site, you know.......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Princelex works as a subway conductor so he not home all the time. And keep in mind, he lives in COOP area.

 

 

Oh I know, but he was on earlier and quiet...

 

I'm not answering your illogical questions to make things easier for you......

 

First it's this notion that, since I agree w/ Princelex in saying he has a legitimate gripe regarding the local bus cuts in co-op city, you wanna try to somehow tie that to me not caring about or considering another community.....

 

Now it's, since I brought up the excuse of the elderly in another post, that must somehow mean that I don't care or consider the cuts of other communities..... since you can't get me to answer your agenda driven questions talking about:

 

 

Well you have the opportunity now to clarify what you said, but instead you keep talking about how illogical my thought process is. I simply asked you to clarify what I thought you were implying. Not too difficult. Instead you give me this drama. You've barely even stated why you agree with Princelex. All you've stated is that the community has several routes that were cut back that serve various destinations of the community itself. Meanwhile, you haven't refuted my questions. Instead you've become defensive... I wonder why...

[B35 via Church]

Well you have the opportunity now to clarify what you said, but instead you keep talking about how illogical my thought process is. I simply asked you to clarify what I thought you were implying. Not too difficult. Instead you give me this drama. You've barely even stated why you agree with Princelex. All you've stated is that the community has several routes that were cut back that serve various destinations of the community itself. Meanwhile, you haven't refuted my questions. Instead you've become defensive... I wonder why...

 

clarify? Clarify WHAT, Via.....

 

You are the one that's inquring to me about other communities in comparison to co-op city, when I said nor implicated nothing of the sort in the first place.... Now if I sat up there & said co-op city patrons had a legitimate gripe with their cuts, but another community such as little neck didn't, then you can come at me with this crap..... then I would feel compelled to answer your question...... Not once did I compare the situation with co-op to the situation of any other community... That was alllllll you !

 

This "but other communities don't" agenda you want to project on to me is baseless....

 

So Look, go ahead & try to flip it like I'm the one with the issue because I'm not answering your questions....

That's all this is.... You can't get an answer out of me regarding your illogical questions, so now you have to try to shame me into one....

[Gotham Bus Co.]

And what makes it so essential for Section 5 riders to have direct service to those areas? If you are going to use that argument, then why not complain that there isn't direct service for Section 2 or Section 3 to those places too.

 

 

You're welcome to pursue direct service from Sections 2 and 3 if you want. That's a separate issue unrelated to my question.

 

My question dealt specifically with Section 5. How would those riders "benefit" from a 10-minute longer ride?? How would riders in other sections benefit from making Section 5 riders stay on the bus longer?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

clarify? Clarify WHAT, Via.....

 

You are the one that's inquring to me about other communities in comparison to co-op city, when I said nor implicated nothing of the sort in the first place.... Now if I sat up there & said co-op city patrons had a legitimate gripe with their cuts, but another community such as little neck didn't, then you can come at me with this crap..... then I would feel compelled to answer your question...... Not once did I compare the situation with co-op to the situation of any other community... That was alllllll you !

 

This "but other communities don't" agenda you want to project on to me is baseless....

 

So Look, go ahead & try to flip it like I'm the one with the issue because I'm not answering your questions....

That's all this is.... You can't get an answer out of me regarding your illogical questions, so now you have to try to shame me into one....

 

 

LMAO... I don't have to try because you're doing a good job yourself. There is nothing illogical about asking you to explain why you think Princelex has a legitimate gripe. You still have yet to provide any explanation. Furthermore, just because you didn't make a direct comparison or state it directly doesn't mean that you don't believe that local bus service in some communities is more important than others. It's my belief that you've indirectly implied it.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

So... this discussion has turned to my neck of the woods. Time to go in.

 

Being a former Co-op resident and a constant visitor of the area I can speak on behalf of the bus service there. What that area really needs is direct subway or commuter rail service but that is for another discussion. Sure a couple things got taken away such as direct Allerton service for Sec 1-3 and GunHill service in terms of headways for all sections but I don't see it as worth griping about. Not many Co-op residents want the local routes for the respective corridors they serve. The main thing is subway access and if you look at it that way Co-op has great service. People taking Bx28/38 out of Co-op are doing so for subway access or the hospitals on Bainbridge, which also opens Bx30 as an option. The Bx26 could benefit from a couple of "trippers" through all 5 sections like Bx28 does after-school hours but I don't see any changes needed in Co-op besides that.

 

To sum it up.... VG8 has a point but couldn't defend it well because he lacks knowledge of the situation in Co-op. Any legitimate gripe I could find with Co-op local bus service would be one that doesn't express the overall demands of the area.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Brooklyn under NYC DOT laws no buses or commerical vechiles are allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge. if it did the Brooklyn Bridge would not be around almost 130 years later after it opened in 1883.

 

For several decades, the Brooklyn Bridge also carried BMT elevated trains (1883-1944) and streetcars (1883-1950). The structure could easily survive a handful of buses if not for the Robert Moses mentality of precluding public transportation at all costs.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So... this discussion has turned to my neck of the woods. Time to go in.

 

Being a former Co-op resident and a constant visitor of the area I can speak on behalf of the bus service there. What that area really needs is direct subway or commuter rail service but that is for another discussion. Sure a couple things got taken away such as direct Allerton service for Sec 1-3 and GunHill service in terms of headways for all sections but I don't see it as worth griping about. Not many Co-op residents want the local routes for the respective corridors they serve. The main thing is subway access and if you look at it that way Co-op has great service. People taking Bx28/38 out of Co-op are doing so for subway access or the hospitals on Bainbridge, which also opens Bx30 as an option. The Bx26 could benefit from a couple of "trippers" through all 5 sections like Bx28 does after-school hours but I don't see any changes needed in Co-op besides that.

 

To sum it up.... VG8 has a point but couldn't defend it well because he lacks knowledge of the situation in Co-op. Any legitimate gripe I could find with Co-op local bus service would be one that doesn't express the overall demands of the area.

 

 

This has nothing to do with knowing Co-op City. My point all along has been that most communities across the city has to do more with less and I'm trying to understand what makes Co-op City so special from the rest of the city that it should keep ALL of its service while some communities have none? That's the question that B35 nor Princelex seems to want to answer. Sure, maybe they've had service cut back, but the whole community is still COVERED. That's the point. Just about every community in the city has had to sacrifice on some level with their service, so what makes Co-op City any different?

 

So in sum they've got their BxM7 to the city which runs VERY FREQUENTLY (sometimes every 4 - 5 minutes) AND several local buses that cover the area within Co-op City, but still that's not enough while other communities have NOTHING?

[RTS CNG Command]

Well you did by saying that he has a legitimate gripe. I'm trying to understand what the gripe is? So he has some local bus service and other communities have none. It isn't a question of "issues" per se, but a question of favoritism on your part. So why is it that he has a "legitimate gripe"? The point is that not all communities can get everything with the current fiscal situation.

 

Because Co-Op City service hasn't been all that good. It's a major hub in The Bronx with several bus routes going to just going to a few areas. The Bx25 Bx26 only serves the Asch Loop, while the Bx28 (which used to serve several of the sections) doesn't operate the northern half of the Asch Loop and terminates in Earhart Lane (Section 5).

 

When the MTA cut service in June 2010, of all of the areas in the Bronx, Co-Op City was hit the hardest (in terms of locals and limiteds), but the people there haven't been vocal enough to call out the MTA and the legislature for reversing the decision. Princelex has a reason to be gripe for this: Prior to 2010, several of the locals served all or almost all of the five sections. Currently, the Bx23 (from MTA Bus) is the lone one to serve all five during the day and the Bx28 at night. (The Bx30 runs along the western portion of Section 2, but doesn't serve the Bellamy Loop.)

 

In addition, the MTA Bus Company and MTA NYCT serve Co-Op City under two different budgets. New York City Transit's budget is subsidized by the MTA. MTA Bus's budget is from the government, and they each run different timetable and schedule standards.

 

The BxM7 has run fine, and I don't think anyone is going to complain about this. But regarding the locals and limiteds, they each only serve specific sections, and (from what I've read from comments here) service has been rather mixed. When they serve just specific sections, they're required to transfer to another bus. That's why Princelex has been vocal about the restoration of the old Bx26 and Bx28. Basically, better performance and equal service for all five sections for almost all of the routes instead of just a couple.

 

For several decades, the Brooklyn Bridge also carried BMT elevated trains (1883-1944) and streetcars (1883-1950). The structure could easily survive a handful of buses if not for the Robert Moses mentality of precluding public transportation at all costs.

 

Back then, it could, because the Brooklyn Bridge was newer. Today, the Brooklyn Bridge is much older and fragile. Trains and buses are WAY too heavy for the bridge to hold nowadays. Repeated bus and train service along the Brooklyn Bridge now would result in the bridge wearing down even further, and the city can't afford a potential catastrophe.

[cotb16]

I'm not answering your illogical questions to make things easier for you......

 

First it's this notion that, since I agree w/ Princelex in saying he has a legitimate gripe regarding the local bus cuts in co-op city, you wanna try to somehow tie that to me not caring about or considering another community.....

 

Now it's, since I brought up the excuse of the elderly in another post, that must somehow mean that I don't care or consider the cuts of other communities..... since you can't get me to answer your agenda driven questions talking about:

 

 

 

----------------

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see what you are saying.... There are residences over/around Spofford, west of Hunts Point av....

 

 

You have a few residences, but a good chunk of them walk west to the Longwood Avenue station.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because Co-Op City service hasn't been all that good. It's a major hub in The Bronx with several bus routes going to just going to a few areas. The Bx25 Bx26 only serves the Asch Loop, while the Bx28 (which used to serve several of the sections) doesn't operate the northern half of the Asch Loop and terminates in Earhart Lane (Section 5).

 

When the MTA cut service in June 2010, of all of the areas in the Bronx, Co-Op City was hit the hardest (in terms of locals and limiteds), but the people there haven't been vocal enough to call out the MTA and the legislature for reversing the decision. Princelex has a reason to be gripe for this: Prior to 2010, several of the locals served all or almost all of the five sections. Currently, the Bx23 (from MTA Bus) is the lone one to serve all five during the day and the Bx28 at night. (The Bx30 runs along the western portion of Section 2, but doesn't serve the Bellamy Loop.)

 

In addition, the MTA Bus Company and MTA NYCT serve Co-Op City under two different budgets. New York City Transit's budget is subsidized by the MTA. MTA Bus's budget is from the government, and they each run different timetable and schedule standards.

 

The BxM7 has run fine, and I don't think anyone is going to complain about this. But regarding the locals and limiteds, they each only serve specific sections, and (from what I've read from comments here) service has been rather mixed. When they serve just specific sections, they're required to transfer to another bus. That's why Princelex has been vocal about the restoration of the old Bx26 and Bx28. Basically, better performance and equal service for all five sections for almost all of the routes instead of just a couple.

 

 

Okay fine, but my point is there are other hubs across the city where folks are forced to do the same thing, so I'm not seeing the difference here. That still doesn't explain why a community like Co-op City, which already has SEVERAL local buses running there should have ALL of their service back while some communities have NONE. I'm sorry but that is just GREEDY. There is no other way to slice it. How do you justify giving them all of their service back for SEVERAL routes and having none for other communities?? That's my question.

 

Here in Riverdale, we have lost some service over the years too. Every community has lost service for the most part and ALL communities should SHARE the friggin' loss! Somehow Co-op City is special though? Is that the idea?

[cotb16]

Committee books posted:

 

-S/B Q113 diverted off Nameoke St to match n/b travel path

 

-Artic conversions: Q44, M34, M60

 

 

For the M60, I have just one word: FINALLY!

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

This has nothing to do with knowing Co-op City. My point all along has been that most communities across the city has to do more with less and I'm trying to understand what makes Co-op City so special from the rest of the city that it should keep ALL of its service while some communities have none? That's the question that B35 nor Princelex seems to want to answer. Sure, maybe they've had service cut back, but the whole community is still COVERED. That's the point. Just about every community in the city has had to sacrifice on some level with their service, so what makes Co-op City any different?

 

So in sum they've got their BxM7 to the city which runs VERY FREQUENTLY (sometimes every 4 - 5 minutes) AND several local buses that cover the area within Co-op City, but still that's not enough while other communities have NOTHING?

 

Co-op shouldn't have to sacrifice anything in terms of service. It's one of (if not the) largest single residential developments in the country. Let me add there is a major educational campus there, which contains my high school, and it is a hub for the Northeast Bronx. I may not live there but i'm in it all the time because the stores I go to and such are there. The new mall being built at Bay Plaza further solidifies Co-op City's presence as one of the busiest areas in the Bronx. Because so many people live, work and go to school there NO service should be sacrificed by Co-op residents. These other ares you speak of must not be using their bus service well enough hence their sacrifice.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Co-op shouldn't have to sacrifice anything in terms of service. It's one of (if not the) largest single residential developments in the country. Let me add there is a major educational campus there, which contains my high school, and it is a hub for the Northeast Bronx. I may not live there but i'm in it all the time because the stores I go to and such are there. The new mall being built at Bay Plaza further solidifies Co-op City's presence as one of the busiest areas in the Bronx. Because so many people live, work and go to school there NO service should be sacrificed by Co-op residents. These other ares you speak of must not be using their bus service well enough hence their sacrifice.

 

 

Uh no, it's called sacrifice. So the other communities should go without with NO service so that Co-op has SEVERAL local buses parading about because they're a large community?? What a load of crappola. There are folks on the Upper West Side with a pretty sizable population that would like their M104 restored to the East Side, but they're also forced to transfer to the M42 for access to the UN or East Side. I can name other large communities as well. If the did that they would clearly be favoring Co-op City and it is totally wrong when they've got SEVERAL local buses in the community.

[checkmatechamp13]

You have a few residences, but a good chunk of them walk west to the Longwood Avenue station.

 

 

But his point is that it's better to serve the residential area than the industrial area.

[B35 via Church]

LMAO... I don't have to try because you're doing a good job yourself.

 

There is nothing illogical about asking you to explain why you think Princelex has a legitimate gripe. You still have yet to provide any explanation.

 

Yeah, from your skewed, agenda driven vantage point....

 

Don't even try it..... What's illogical is you trying to get me to compare & consider other communities in my assessment, as it pertains to my stance about the local buses in co-op city; speaking of avoiding things...... Go ahead & try to show me where I compared another community to co-op city in all this...... Because you can't.

 

Your original question wasn't asking me why I feel he has a legitimate gripe anyway.... Immediately you tell me about there being some double standard - and right there is the prelude to what the basis of that initial post of yours was to me..... This isn't about why I feel he has a legitimate gripe about co-op, this is all about double standards & considering other communities....

 

Well sacrifices have to be made. I like the double standards being made. Gerritsen Beach lost its overnight local bus service (only the B31 serves Gerritsen Beach) and some folks said well they can just take a taxi. Meanwhile folks in Co-op HAVE some local bus service and have bus service overnight and I don't hear anyone talking about folks taking a taxi or any of that.

 

They've got a legitimate gripe, but other communities don't? Is that the idea?

 

Your own words, verbatim.... Your initial post to me regarding all this......

 

 

Furthermore, just because you didn't make a direct comparison or state it directly doesn't mean that you don't believe that local bus service in some communities is more important than others. It's my belief that you've indirectly implied it.

 

....and there we have it..... your projection.

 

just because I didn't make a direct comparison doesn't mean that I don't believe local buses in some communities is more important than others..... If you are going to accuse me of something, get your shit straight first......

 

I'm still not understanding what plausible reason you have to base a belief on me indirectly implying anything of the sort....

 

 

My point all along has been that most communities across the city has to do more with less and I'm trying to understand what makes Co-op City so special from the rest of the city that it should keep ALL of its service while some communities have none?

 

Exactly... that's YOUR point, not mine......

 

I didn't say squat about co-op city being so special.... Never implied it either.....

You read too deep into something that was never there to begin with....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, from your skewed, agenda driven vantage point....

 

Don't even try it..... What's illogical is you trying to get me to compare & consider other communities in my assessment, as it pertains to my stance about the local buses in co-op city; speaking of avoiding things...... Go ahead & try to show me where I compared another community to co-op city in all this...... Because you can't.

 

Your original question wasn't asking me why I feel he has a legitimate gripe anyway.... Immediately you tell me about there being some double standard - and right there is the prelude to what the basis of that initial post of yours was to me..... This isn't about why I feel he has a legitimate gripe about co-op, this is all about double standards & considering other communities....

 

 

 

Your own words, verbatim.... Your initial post to me regarding all this......

 

 

 

 

....and there we have it..... your projection.

 

just because I didn't make a direct comparison doesn't mean that I don't believe local buses in some communities is more important than others..... If you are going to accuse me of something, get your shit straight first......

 

I'm still not understanding what plausible reason you have to base a belief on me indirectly implying anything of the sort....

 

 

 

 

Exactly... that's YOUR point, not mine......

 

I didn't say squat about co-op city being so special.... Never implied it either.....

You read too deep into something that was never there to begin with....

 

 

I never said you did either... Princelex was the one that started it and you jumped in and agreed with him but never said WHY? That's what I've been asking you the entire time and you keep ducking the question, which leads me to believe that perhaps you do feel that Co-op City should be given priority. All you've stated is he has a legitimate gripe. You've never fully stated why... There's clearly a reason that you agree with him...

[cotb16]

But his point is that it's better to serve the residential area than the industrial area.

 

 

I agree with moving it from Lafayette to Spofford, but I'm concerned that the hill on Spofford could hurt the Bx6A more than help.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Uh no, it's called sacrifice. So the other communities should go without with NO service so that Co-op has SEVERAL local buses parading about because they're a large community?? What a load of crappola. There are folks on the Upper West Side with a pretty sizable population that would like their M104 restored to the East Side, but they're also forced to transfer to the M42 for access to the UN or East Side. I can name other large communities as well. If the did that they would clearly be favoring Co-op City and it is totally wrong when they've got SEVERAL local buses in the community.

 

The Upper West Side has something that Co-op residents don't... SUBWAY service.

[B35 via Church]

I never said you did either... Princelex was the one that started it and you jumped in and agreed with him but never said WHY? That's what I've been asking you the entire time and you keep ducking the question, which leads me to believe that perhaps you do feel that Co-op City should be given priority. All you've stated is he has a legitimate gripe. You've never fully stated why... There's clearly a reason that you agree with him...

Your original question was not asking me simply why I agreed with princelex & you know it....

 

You AUTOMATICALLY assumed that I'm acting on some double standard..... That's the problem I'm having with your original post.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Your original question was not asking me simply why I agreed with princelex & you know it....

 

You AUTOMATICALLY assumed that I'm acting on some double standard..... That's the problem I'm having with your original post.

 

I wouldn't respond to him. He clearly said what he said to Princelex originally just to say something. If I have no clue about the commuting patterns in a certain area (VG8 fits this boat with Co-op) I wouldn't go out of my way to call a complaint from a resident of said area ungrateful.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I wouldn't respond to him. He clearly said what he said to Princelex originally just to say something. If I have no clue about the commuting patterns in a certain area (VG8 fits this boat with Co-op) I wouldn't go out of my way to call a complaint from a resident of said area ungrateful.

 

 

It's simple because this has nothing to with travel patterns. We're talking about communities WITH bus service, vs communities WITHOUT ANY bus service. Parts of Sheepshead Bay for example had NO local bus service, so that means that they had NO alternative... No subway, NOTHING. In sum, if the gave Princelex what he wanted, that could very well mean that a community like Sheepshead Bay would have NO local bus service. My point is travel patterns or not, SOME local bus service is better than NONE and for that yes, he's ungrateful. So Co-op City doesn't have a subway... Well guess what... Staten Island doesn't have one either and it's a borough with almost 500,000 residents and it has anemic bus service overall as well.

 

 

Your original question was not asking me simply why I agreed with princelex & you know it....

 

You AUTOMATICALLY assumed that I'm acting on some double standard..... That's the problem I'm having with your original post.

 

 

Yeah because you refuse to answer a simple question, which I'll ask yet again... What is the legitimate gripe that Princelex has according to you?? You would think I was asking something that was impossible to answer. I mean seriously it's a legitimate question. If you're going to agree with someone, have the decency to explain why.