Planned Subway Service Changes

[NewFlyer 230]

2 hours ago, nightmare402 said:

Planned - Multiple Impacts

No E service at stations between Court Sq-23 St and World Trade Center

Feb 18 - 22, Fri 11:30 PM to Tue 5:00 AM

D‌ays and evenings, trains run via the between 21 St-Queensbridge and Lexington Av/63 St and via the to/from 34 St-Herald Sq, the last stop.

Overnight, trains run via the between Queens Plaza and 34 St-Herald Sq, the last stop. (Trains skip 49 St in both directions)

No service at Court Sq-23 St, Lexington Av/53 St, 5 Av/53 St, 7 Av, 50 St, 42 St, 34 St-Penn Station, 23 St, 14 St, W4 St, Spring St, Canal St and World Trade Center.

Travel Alternatives:

Days and evenings, for Queens Plaza, take the or use the nearby Queensboro Plaza station. Overnight E trains will make this stop.

For Court Sq-23 St, take the .

For Lexington Av/53 St, use the 4 local or 6 at 51 St.

For 5 Av/53 St, use the nearby 57 St F , ‌5 Av/59 St R or 57 St-7 Av stations. 

For 7 Av, take the rerouted or the .

For 50 St,‌ 42 St-Port Authority Bus Terminal, 34 St-Penn Station, St and 14 St, use nearby stations on 7 Av.

For W 4 St-Wash Sq, Spring St, Canal St and World Trade Center/Chambers St, take the .

Transfer between alternative services at the following stations:

Jackson Hts-Roosevelt Av/74 St-Broadway Accessbility |  

Grand Central-42 St 467

Times Sq-42 St / 42 St-Bryant Pk        

34 St-Herald Sq  

Lexington Av/59 St overnight and

What's happening?

We're making structural and communication improvements along 8 Av

Accessbility This service change affects one or more ADA accessible stations and these travel alternatives may not be fully accessible. Please contact 511 to plan your trip.

Posted: 01/25/2022 03:12PM

 

 

I wonder why the  can’t just go to Whitehall Street. 
I was also going to suggest suspend the  all together and boosted  and  service but perhaps that may mess up the scheduling on other lines. 

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I wonder why the  can’t just go to Whitehall Street. 
I was also going to suggest suspend the  all together and boosted  and  service but perhaps that may mess up the scheduling on other lines. 

The uptown side between Whitehall and Canal is unavailable due to another GO.

This double and triple dipping on GO's get really frustrating after a while, especially if there's an incident on top of them. Once an incident happens in just the right spot, the whole B-division can get knocked out.

Look at the weekend in question for instance:

-Broadway express tracks are out of service between 34th St and Prince St.

-Uptown Broadway local track is out of service between Dekalb Av and Canal St.

-8th Avenue is out of service between 59th Street and West 4th Street

-53rd Street tunnel is out of service

-Queens Blvd Express tracks are out of service

-Culver El is out of service

It wouldn't take much to knock out the whole B-division here.

[Wallyhorse]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

The uptown side between Whitehall and Canal is unavailable due to another GO.

This double and triple dipping on GO's get really frustrating after a while, especially if there's an incident on top of them. Once an incident happens in just the right spot, the whole B-division can get knocked out.

Look at the weekend in question for instance:

-Broadway express tracks are out of service between 34th St and Prince St.

-Uptown Broadway local track is out of service between Dekalb Av and Canal St.

-8th Avenue is out of service between 59th Street and West 4th Street

-53rd Street tunnel is out of service

-Queens Blvd Express tracks are out of service

-Culver El is out of service

It wouldn't take much to knock out the whole B-division here.

I suspect they are doing everything at once to catch up because as I remember a number of these GOs had to be canceled previously due to worker shortages.

In the case of the  not being extended to Jamaica Center, with the uptown local out between Whitehall and Canal (tunnel level), I suspect it would have been impossible to do that, plus it would have meant having the run likely at all times AND they may not have had enough crews qualified on the  for that. 

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I suspect they are doing everything at once to catch up because as I remember a number of these GOs had to be canceled previously due to worker shortages.

In the case of the  not being extended to Jamaica Center, with the uptown local out between Whitehall and Canal (tunnel level), I suspect it would have been impossible to do that, plus it would have meant having the run likely at all times AND they may not have had enough crews qualified on the  for that. 

It’s a pretty interesting GO, but it has to be done for several reasons

- the last time 8 Av was closed on a weekend was the weekend right before the pandemic fully shut down life in NYC (March 13-16 2020), and that version just suspended the  and rerouted the  to 2 Av. This probably can’t happen due to expected longer wait times and longer travel times from end to end along the  line if it’s made fully local in Manhattan / Brooklyn. When a route has a longer travel time, headways have to be thinned or extra crews have to be called in, neither of which are possible due to the pandemic. So this time the  must remain express, and to do so, the  must run. I personally would have had the  only run from 59 St to 168 St so the  can at least be express in Manhattan but there’s the same problem of the  being local in Brooklyn and additional switching at 59 St Columbus Circle needed.

- again due to worker shortages, you can’t have any GOs or alternate services where routes are extended or run extra service. Having extra  and  service in lieu of the  doesn’t work because you would most likely only have the  crews available late nights to run the extended , and again there are probably Union rules that prohibit an extension of a workers route without pay increases for making the shuttle  crews run a 2-hour route from Bay Ridge to Jamaica Center fully local.

- the increased  service also does not fit with the limited 15 TPH train capacity on weekends that we’re now stuck with on trunk lines. 6 Av is not viable due to the  trains essentially pulling an  (meaning, taking up capacity on both the express and local tracks in midtown on 6 Av). Broadway is not available for extra service due to the Manhattan Bridge being the only route open from Brooklyn to Manhattan northbound. Overflow trains would have to end at 34 St Herald Sq anyways, so might as well run the  instead of a shortened  in addition to the normal length .

- with regards to Broadway, an argument could be made for ending the  at Canal St, meaning keeping the  express and just running the  via 59’St like they did Last time (March 2020) but it seems that the work in lower manhattan on Broadway is between City Hall and Prince St, right before the crossover. If the problem is that  trains are stored in city hall yard weekends instead of traveling to Coney Island Yard for storage, then just move those trains to the yard or park them on sea beach. They still run the same risk of vandalism like the other trains do when parked on express tracks on other corridors (Queens Blvd Express, 96 St-2 Av tail tracks, etc). However it might be the former. If it is the latter then that’s just laziness on part of the MTA and planning.

- yes I agree…one hiccup ANYWHERE and the system goes to shit during that GO. And it’s a weekend/holiday GO, which means, lots of tourism and shopping. Weekends with this convoluted service rerouting is when people should just stay home or avoid the subway if at all possible - trains just for essential workers and just drive / bike / walk everywhere

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

I personally would have had the  only run from 59 St to 168 St so the  can at least be express in Manhattan but there’s the same problem of the  being local in Brooklyn and additional switching at 59 St Columbus Circle needed.

Yep. The  would need to switch over the SB express track, come into 59th on the NB express track, stop and change ends, then switch over to the NB local track.

Southbound  and  trains would get held up waiting for  trains to cross two tracks to terminate, and northbound  and  trains would be diverging to the NB local track at 59th only to have to switch again to the express track afterwards, crawling the whole way.

The way the GO is written up now is probably the best way to do it. Plus, transferring between the & and the  at 34th Street should alleviate some of the concerns of a typical rider... even though most of the riders will need a Ph.D in urban transportation planning just to understand what the hell is going on.

[NewFlyer 230]

On 1/27/2022 at 5:12 PM, paulrivera said:

The uptown side between Whitehall and Canal is unavailable due to another GO.

This double and triple dipping on GO's get really frustrating after a while, especially if there's an incident on top of them. Once an incident happens in just the right spot, the whole B-division can get knocked out.

Look at the weekend in question for instance:

-Broadway express tracks are out of service between 34th St and Prince St.

-Uptown Broadway local track is out of service between Dekalb Av and Canal St.

-8th Avenue is out of service between 59th Street and West 4th Street

-53rd Street tunnel is out of service

-Queens Blvd Express tracks are out of service

-Culver El is out of service

It wouldn't take much to knock out the whole B-division here.

It is annoying just reading how many service changes are going on at the same time. I guess they are trying to do as much work as possible in case of another worker shortage, but damn service is being crippled heavy. They should have left Broadway alone and had the  go to Whitehall Street to make up for lack of 8th Ave service. The MTA has these ads on buses that say “leave your car and board this bus” which is promoting the use of public transportation in general but when they have things like G.O on top of G.O taking place during a single weekend who would bother taking public transportation unless they really had to. 

[mrsman]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:06 AM, darkstar8983 said:

It’s a pretty interesting GO, but it has to be done for several reasons

- the last time 8 Av was closed on a weekend was the weekend right before the pandemic fully shut down life in NYC (March 13-16 2020), and that version just suspended the  and rerouted the  to 2 Av. This probably can’t happen due to expected longer wait times and longer travel times from end to end along the  line if it’s made fully local in Manhattan / Brooklyn. When a route has a longer travel time, headways have to be thinned or extra crews have to be called in, neither of which are possible due to the pandemic. So this time the  must remain express, and to do so, the  must run. I personally would have had the  only run from 59 St to 168 St so the  can at least be express in Manhattan but there’s the same problem of the  being local in Brooklyn and additional switching at 59 St Columbus Circle needed.

- again due to worker shortages, you can’t have any GOs or alternate services where routes are extended or run extra service. Having extra  and  service in lieu of the  doesn’t work because you would most likely only have the  crews available late nights to run the extended , and again there are probably Union rules that prohibit an extension of a workers route without pay increases for making the shuttle  crews run a 2-hour route from Bay Ridge to Jamaica Center fully local.

- the increased  service also does not fit with the limited 15 TPH train capacity on weekends that we’re now stuck with on trunk lines. 6 Av is not viable due to the  trains essentially pulling an  (meaning, taking up capacity on both the express and local tracks in midtown on 6 Av). Broadway is not available for extra service due to the Manhattan Bridge being the only route open from Brooklyn to Manhattan northbound. Overflow trains would have to end at 34 St Herald Sq anyways, so might as well run the  instead of a shortened  in addition to the normal length .

- with regards to Broadway, an argument could be made for ending the  at Canal St, meaning keeping the  express and just running the  via 59’St like they did Last time (March 2020) but it seems that the work in lower manhattan on Broadway is between City Hall and Prince St, right before the crossover. If the problem is that  trains are stored in city hall yard weekends instead of traveling to Coney Island Yard for storage, then just move those trains to the yard or park them on sea beach. They still run the same risk of vandalism like the other trains do when parked on express tracks on other corridors (Queens Blvd Express, 96 St-2 Av tail tracks, etc). However it might be the former. If it is the latter then that’s just laziness on part of the MTA and planning.

- yes I agree…one hiccup ANYWHERE and the system goes to shit during that GO. And it’s a weekend/holiday GO, which means, lots of tourism and shopping. Weekends with this convoluted service rerouting is when people should just stay home or avoid the subway if at all possible - trains just for essential workers and just drive / bike / walk everywhere

Many of the work rules make a more practical plan simply impossible.

But if we were to think it through, in the hypothetical:

First, I would think (hope) the 15 TPH rule would be suspended during such a wide ranging GO.  The available work crews would still create an average 15 TPH per line, but obviously where reorutes force new service pattern, we will see more service on such lines.

  will all share the Broadway local tracks.  will use the Bridge in Uptown direction, with    on the bridge southbound and  through Montague downtown.  will be extended to Jamaica Center.

 Suspended.

 suspended.   speical service from 207th to Coney Island will replace  on CPW and in Brooklyn.

 will begin at 96th (replacing service on 2nd Ave) merge in with  tracks along 63rd and follow  routing until W4th, and then continue on its normal routings (local in Brooklyn) to Lefferts and Far Rockaway.

 suspended, with service replaced by increased and  service.

So in Midtown, we are left with:   on Broadway local, on 6th Ave local and  on 6th Ave express.  Not great, but IMO better than all the criss-crossing that is going on with the official plans.

 

[CenSin]

2 hours ago, mrsman said:

Many of the work rules make a more practical plan simply impossible.

But if we were to think it through, in the hypothetical:

First, I would think (hope) the 15 TPH rule would be suspended during such a wide ranging GO.  The available work crews would still create an average 15 TPH per line, but obviously where reorutes force new service pattern, we will see more service on such lines.

  will all share the Broadway local tracks.  will use the Bridge in Uptown direction, with    on the bridge southbound and  through Montague downtown.  will be extended to Jamaica Center.

 Suspended.

 suspended.   speical service from 207th to Coney Island will replace  on CPW and in Brooklyn.

 will begin at 96th (replacing service on 2nd Ave) merge in with  tracks along 63rd and follow  routing until W4th, and then continue on its normal routings (local in Brooklyn) to Lefferts and Far Rockaway.

 suspended, with service replaced by increased and  service.

So in Midtown, we are left with:   on Broadway local, on 6th Ave local and  on 6th Ave express.  Not great, but IMO better than all the criss-crossing that is going on with the official plans.

 

Gotta understand that the letters serve a purpose—to identify a route. If a reroute results in the creation of something entirely unfamiliar, it defeats the purpose of giving that route any letter designation. ( to 96 Street 👀)

[Theli11]

5 hours ago, mrsman said:

Many of the work rules make a more practical plan simply impossible.

But if we were to think it through, in the hypothetical:

First, I would think (hope) the 15 TPH rule would be suspended during such a wide ranging GO.  The available work crews would still create an average 15 TPH per line, but obviously where reorutes force new service pattern, we will see more service on such lines.

  will all share the Broadway local tracks.  will use the Bridge in Uptown direction, with    on the bridge southbound and  through Montague downtown.  will be extended to Jamaica Center.

 Suspended.

 suspended.   speical service from 207th to Coney Island will replace  on CPW and in Brooklyn.

 will begin at 96th (replacing service on 2nd Ave) merge in with  tracks along 63rd and follow  routing until W4th, and then continue on its normal routings (local in Brooklyn) to Lefferts and Far Rockaway.

 suspended, with service replaced by increased and  service.

So in Midtown, we are left with:   on Broadway local, on 6th Ave local and  on 6th Ave express.  Not great, but IMO better than all the criss-crossing that is going on with the official plans.

 

I'm sure the everyday rider would understand all these changes. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd understand at a glance.. For all of this you could've just had the  go via the , the  go via the  then the  down to Jay St, the and  don't even have to be this complicated, you could've just ran the  and  via Bridge, and have people use  . Idk why the  is suspended anyways. If you keep everything simple and on the usual GOs, service will usually be fine. New Yorkers are trying to get to one place to another.. The goal isn't to create a brand new map or create some weird service pattern/route but to make everything as easy, digestible and simple as possible. If it's anything the MTA knows how to make GOs have some simplicity and easy to understand logic behind them.

[Lawrence St]

I still think the  should have just ended in Court Square or extended the  to Jamaica Blvd. There’s no logical reasoning behind doing all this extra nonsense. 

[mrsman]

5 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

I'm sure the everyday rider would understand all these changes. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd understand at a glance.. For all of this you could've just had the  go via the , the  go via the  then the  down to Jay St, the and  don't even have to be this complicated, you could've just ran the  and  via Bridge, and have people use  . Idk why the  is suspended anyways. If you keep everything simple and on the usual GOs, service will usually be fine. New Yorkers are trying to get to one place to another.. The goal isn't to create a brand new map or create some weird service pattern/route but to make everything as easy, digestible and simple as possible. If it's anything the MTA knows how to make GOs have some simplicity and easy to understand logic behind them.

The idea is that the simple routing will be all-frought with mergers and bottlenecks.  You would run A and C trains along the D train corridor, then switching to the F and then swithching back to the 8th Avenue.  These merges aren't cost-free, even at weekend frequencies.  You still need to run enough trains to actually serve the passengers.

A normal weekend GO running A and C in this pattern would not be so bad.  But there are few places for the trains to go now that you also have projects along Montague and the Broadway express.

If you normally have six trunk lines (8th exp, 8th loc, 6th exp, 6th loc, Bwy exp, Bwy loc), but because of the trackwork, you now have only three (6th loc, 6th exp, Bwy loc), you have to run the trains in an efficient manner.  The Fulton line  trains from Brooklyn can only connect with the  routing (either at Jay or at W4th) if it can't run up 8th Ave.  That basically means that unless we will have  trains merging between local and express tracks on 6th Ave [the GO does this, but it is a bad idea given the number of trains that need to be run on the only trunks that are available] , the  trains will ride up the 6th Ave local, which only has access to 53rd Qns, 63rds Qns, or up 2nd Ave.

Conceivably, there are other alternatives that avoid  making a merge from express to local.  You could have all three Broadway services run on the Broadway local at reduced frequencies.  All three trains will ride on the bridge nb (but thru Montague SB) and run to their normal lines in Brooklyn, again, at reduced frequencies, since we are running three services in the space for two.   Next, you can supsend  and run the  along the  line, and run  trains.  So now we will have three services on the 6th Ave express that continues into Brooklyn.   to Brighton,  to West End, and perhaps  to 9th Avenue on the West End, the first conceivable place where it can turn back.  This allows the letters to be used for their conveninent and understandable patterns on CPW, but with the understanding that we are funnellilng all three services onto the 6th Ave express.  There is no easy way for these trains to reach the Fulton line in Brooklyn, so they don't.  It means a reduced service on CPW, but running as much trains as possilbe here.  If we provided for  to switch tracks to the local, it will further reduce the number of trains tha can run here - not good.  Now we are left with one other line, 6th Ave local, which can run and service to Queens and then can run to Culver and   to Fulton/Lefferts/Rockaways.

The bottom line, is that if only three out of the six trunk lines are operating on President Day weekend, each of those trunks will have a significant amount of trains running.  The merges in Manhattan should be kept t t a minimum to keep things going.  This unfortunatlely means that Fulton line trains cannot go to CPW like their normal service pattern, becaue that would mean too much merging when there is no capacity for it.

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, mrsman said:

The idea is that the simple routing will be all-frought with mergers and bottlenecks.  You would run A and C trains along the D train corridor, then switching to the F and then swithching back to the 8th Avenue.  These merges aren't cost-free, even at weekend frequencies.  You still need to run enough trains to actually serve the passengers.

These are with respect to routing efficiency alone. Factor in efficiency loss for the passengers trying to figure out how to move and all those hold-ups at stations from confused people.

The subway is not a piece of hardware with the goal of moving as many trains as possible in a unit of time. It has to move people as best as possible.

Edited January 30, 2022 by CenSin
Autocorrect being stupid

[Wallyhorse]

14 hours ago, mrsman said:

Many of the work rules make a more practical plan simply impossible.

But if we were to think it through, in the hypothetical:

First, I would think (hope) the 15 TPH rule would be suspended during such a wide ranging GO.  The available work crews would still create an average 15 TPH per line, but obviously where reorutes force new service pattern, we will see more service on such lines.

  will all share the Broadway local tracks.  will use the Bridge in Uptown direction, with    on the bridge southbound and  through Montague downtown.  will be extended to Jamaica Center.

 Suspended.

 suspended.   speical service from 207th to Coney Island will replace  on CPW and in Brooklyn.

 will begin at 96th (replacing service on 2nd Ave) merge in with  tracks along 63rd and follow  routing until W4th, and then continue on its normal routings (local in Brooklyn) to Lefferts and Far Rockaway.

 suspended, with service replaced by increased and  service.

So in Midtown, we are left with:   on Broadway local, on 6th Ave local and  on 6th Ave express.  Not great, but IMO better than all the criss-crossing that is going on with the official plans.

Here's what I would do:

begins at Canal Street and runs as a Fulton Local split between Lefferts and Far Rockaway (the is suspended).
Shuttle buses operate between Canal and West 4th Street as the is also suspended, only stopping northbound at Spring Street-6th Avenue.
is extended to 95th-Bay Ridge and replaces the  that is suspended
runs regular weekday route to 47-50 and then runs via 53rd Street and 8th Avenue/CPW local to 207th Street replacing the and  
replaces the in both directions as the Broadway Local (though via the Bridge to Manhattan) and also replaces the on QBL to 71st-Continental and  to Jamaica Center
runs normal service
is running as a special shuttle from 34th-Astoria in place of the  

[MTA Bus]

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I still think the  should have just ended in Court Square or extended the  to Jamaica Blvd. There’s no logical reasoning behind doing all this extra nonsense. 

They’re not gonna extend the (R). Why would you make the line longer than it has to be? Also, there’s no  in Jamaica that weekend, so there has to be some kind of Manhattan service from Supthin Blvd for the tourists and whatnot

[paulrivera]

I would have done this:

 207 St-Lefferts Blvd and Far Rockaway, stop at 163 and 155, express 145-59, stops at 23/6 and 14/6 dependent on the needs of service, stop at Spring St, express in Brooklyn
 205 St (Concourse)-Euclid Av, local in the Bronx and Manhattan, local in Brooklyn
 suspended, replaced by the in the Bronx and CPW,  in Manhattan and Brooklyn
 Jamaica Center-Church Av(GO), QBL local (GO), 63 St(GO)-6 Av local, via Delancey, Culver local
 179 St-Coney Island, QBL local (GO), 63 St-6 Av express, Bridge, 4 Av express, West End local
 unchanged
 Broadway express
 unchanged

Broadway has one less merge (midtown) and CPW has two less merges (145th and 59th). It's still a mess in some areas, but it's the best I have. Let me know if there are any flaws that I might have overlooked.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

I would have done this:

 207 St-Lefferts Blvd and Far Rockaway, stop at 163 and 155, express 145-59, stops at 23/6 and 14/6 dependent on the needs of service, stop at Spring St, express in Brooklyn
 205 St (Concourse)-Euclid Av, local in the Bronx and Manhattan, local in Brooklyn
 suspended, replaced by the in the Bronx and CPW,  in Manhattan and Brooklyn
 Jamaica Center-Church Av(GO), QBL local (GO), 63 St(GO)-6 Av local, via Delancey, Culver local
 179 St-Coney Island, QBL local (GO), 63 St-6 Av express, Bridge, 4 Av express, West End local
 unchanged
 Broadway express
 unchanged

Broadway has one less merge (midtown) and CPW has two less merges (145th and 59th). It's still a mess in some areas, but it's the best I have. Let me know if there are any flaws that I might have overlooked.

After reading all the other proposals (and this one included), I would have just had the  operate to Jamaica Center and call it a day, and have the affected  crews on the extended  train both during daytime and overnights. That way you preserve the one-seat ride to Manhattan for those in SE Queens and those going to/from JFK. It wouldn't be longer than the  to 179th Street (and that's one that hasn't happened in a while). Plus, northbound trains are operating via the Manhattan Bridge, so while the extension adds time, some of it would be reduced on the northbound trip. Yeah are quite some merges with this scenario, but you preserve more trains without the patterns getting too chaotic (and the  ,  , and  aren't all that frequent either on weekends). 

The other option potentially would be to have the  operate to Euclid Avenue daytime, and to 2nd Ave during overnights. While this would preserve the  express in Brooklyn,   and  as is, the trade-off would be that  trains would be making all stops north of 59th Street. The merging that would exist is at 59th Street (local and express to 6th Ave) and West 4th Street ( from express to local). Overnights there would be a merger near 2nd Avenue, but that can be easily controlled, both in terms of scheduling and headways. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

After reading all the other proposals (and this one included), I would have just had the  operate to Jamaica Center and call it a day, and have the affected  crews on the extended  train both during daytime and overnights. That way you preserve the one-seat ride to Manhattan for those in SE Queens and those going to/from JFK. It wouldn't be longer than the  to 179th Street (and that's one that hasn't happened in a while). Plus, northbound trains are operating via the Manhattan Bridge, so while the extension adds time, some of it would be reduced on the northbound trip. Yeah are quite some merges with this scenario, but you preserve more trains without the patterns getting too chaotic (and the  ,  , and  aren't all that frequent either on weekends). 

The other option potentially would be to have the  operate to Euclid Avenue daytime, and to 2nd Ave during overnights. While this would preserve the  express in Brooklyn,   and  as is, the trade-off would be that  trains would be making all stops north of 59th Street. The merging that would exist is at 59th Street (local and express to 6th Ave) and West 4th Street ( from express to local). Overnights there would be a merger near 2nd Avenue, but that can be easily controlled, both in terms of scheduling and headways. 

That's why for this, I would do it where the  is switched to QBL and runs local (except running via the Bridge Northbound) all the way through to Jamaica Center, replacing the and  along the way as I suspend the regular while I have the extended to 95th-Bay Ridge while the runs its normal weekday route to 47-50, then goes with the  via 53rd and replaces BOTH the and on CPW to 207 while the starts at Canal Street (or Chambers if Canal is not available) and runs fully local on its normal route otherwise via Fulton with the suspended (Shuttle buses between Canal and West 4th with a northbound-only stop at Spring Street).  

[Wallyhorse]

Just now, Wallyhorse said:

That's why for this, I would do it where the  is switched to QBL and runs local (except running via the Bridge Northbound) all the way through to Jamaica Center, replacing the and  along the way as I suspend the regular while I have the extended to 95th-Bay Ridge while the runs its normal weekday route to 47-50, then goes with the  via 53rd and replaces BOTH the and on CPW to 207 while the starts at Canal Street (or Chambers if Canal is not available) and runs fully local on its normal route otherwise via Fulton with the suspended (Shuttle buses between Canal and West 4th with a northbound-only stop at Spring Street).  

And I forgot to note in this, the then is running as a shuttle between 34th and Astoria to replace the since the is replacing the and on Queens Boulevard in this scenario. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

That's why for this, I would do it where the  is switched to QBL and runs local (except running via the Bridge Northbound) all the way through to Jamaica Center, replacing the and  along the way as I suspend the regular while I have the extended to 95th-Bay Ridge while the runs its normal weekday route to 47-50, then goes with the  via 53rd and replaces BOTH the and on CPW to 207 while the starts at Canal Street (or Chambers if Canal is not available) and runs fully local on its normal route otherwise via Fulton with the suspended (Shuttle buses between Canal and West 4th with a northbound-only stop at Spring Street).  

Why would you complicate things to this degree? Without even going into that bit, you're suspending the  , a good chunk of the  , and replacing them the  and  , with the  and  having fewer cars & space than the routes they would supposedly replace. That would be a disaster waiting to happen, especially the  and   , and you introduce a merge in the Montague Street tubes. Reliability would be through the shitter on virtually every line, not to mention the dwell times that would be increased because a train that operates nowhere near them is suddenly operating there (if not the only option). 

There's zero need to send to  onto QBL, nor suspend the . Also having said shuttle bus route is unnecessary. 

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Why would you complicate things to this degree?

“Missing the forest for the trees”

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Why would you complicate things to this degree? Without even going into that bit, you're suspending the  , a good chunk of the  , and replacing them the  and  , with the  and  having fewer cars & space than the routes they would supposedly replace. That would be a disaster waiting to happen, especially the  and   , and you introduce a merge in the Montague Street tubes. Reliability would be through the shitter on virtually every line, not to mention the dwell times that would be increased because a train that operates nowhere near them is suddenly operating there (if not the only option). 

There's zero need to send to  onto QBL, nor suspend the . Also having said shuttle bus route is unnecessary. 

It's the old saying: Pay attention!

People who complain about things don't pay attention to changes and the like, something I've always remembered and when I don't I pay the price for it.  I can remember being unware of changes but that was my fault for not checking.  The way we are connected today, people should in most cases be able to use their phones to get updates and scheduled changes on a weekend and act accordingly.

It's far from perfect, but this is about working around two very significant G.O.'s taking place on the same weekend.  

The other thing you could do is have the run its normal weekday route (unless they are also doing work in the 53rd Street tube not mentioned in the original GO) but extended to Jamaica Center at all times in place of a suspended  and re-routed while the  runs between Essex and Bay Ridge with five-car trains, the runs local (via the Bridge to Manhattan only, mergers would only take place southbound) on 4th Avenue and in Manhattan (running to Astoria as usual otherwise) and the runs (local) in two sections between 207-Columbus Circle and Canal Street-Lefferts or Far Rockaway with the still suspended.  If you need additional service on QBL, you could extend the to Parsons Boulevard or 179 to avoid bottlenecking at 71-Continental. 

[CenSin]

19 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

It's the old saying: Pay attention!

People who complain about things don't pay attention to changes and the like, something I've always remembered and when I don't I pay the price for it.  I can remember being unware of changes but that was my fault for not checking.  The way we are connected today, people should in most cases be able to use their phones to get updates and scheduled changes on a weekend and act accordingly.

It's far from perfect, but this is about working around two very significant G.O.'s taking place on the same weekend.  

The other thing you could do is have the run its normal weekday route (unless they are also doing work in the 53rd Street tube not mentioned in the original GO) but extended to Jamaica Center at all times in place of a suspended  and re-routed while the  runs between Essex and Bay Ridge with five-car trains, the runs local (via the Bridge to Manhattan only, mergers would only take place southbound) on 4th Avenue and in Manhattan (running to Astoria as usual otherwise) and the runs (local) in two sections between 207-Columbus Circle and Canal Street-Lefferts or Far Rockaway with the still suspended.  If you need additional service on QBL, you could extend the to Parsons Boulevard or 179 to avoid bottlenecking at 71-Continental. 

“I declare today Caesar’s Cipher Day! For 24 hours, every numeric symbol’s value shall be incremented by 1, modulus 10. 1 is now 2, 2 is now 3, … 9 is now 0, and 0 is now 1. Thus, 1 + 1 = 5. Anyone who finds it confusing will be directed to our personal responsibility instructor who will didactically remind you that it is your fault for not understanding!”

Also consider this angle when designing reroutes (ditto to the MTA itself): would Steve Jobs rake you over the coals for your complex, unintuitive, consumer-unfriendly proposal if you presented it to him?

Edited February 1, 2022 by CenSin
Added the bit about Steve Jobs

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

It's the old saying: Pay attention!

People who complain about things don't pay attention to changes and the like, something I've always remembered and when I don't I pay the price for it.  I can remember being unware of changes but that was my fault for not checking.  The way we are connected today, people should in most cases be able to use their phones to get updates and scheduled changes on a weekend and act accordingly.

It's far from perfect, but this is about working around two very significant G.O.'s taking place on the same weekend.  

The other thing you could do is have the run its normal weekday route (unless they are also doing work in the 53rd Street tube not mentioned in the original GO) but extended to Jamaica Center at all times in place of a suspended  and re-routed while the  runs between Essex and Bay Ridge with five-car trains, the runs local (via the Bridge to Manhattan only, mergers would only take place southbound) on 4th Avenue and in Manhattan (running to Astoria as usual otherwise) and the runs (local) in two sections between 207-Columbus Circle and Canal Street-Lefferts or Far Rockaway with the still suspended.  If you need additional service on QBL, you could extend the to Parsons Boulevard or 179 to avoid bottlenecking at 71-Continental. 

No, this is about your hard-on for the Bankers Special, which is painfully obvious by you trying to drag the  into the fray (as well as the bullshit underneath the highlighted sentence).

Let's not forget that people still have to use this system. Regular service patterns are confusing enough to the average rider and diversions only add to that. Segment/divert things too much without reason and most people will be too put off to even bother riding if they can help it.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Lex said:

No, this is about your hard-on for the Bankers Special, which is painfully obvious by you trying to drag the  into the fray (as well as the bullshit underneath the highlighted sentence).

Let's not forget that people still have to use this system. Regular service patterns are confusing enough to the average rider and diversions only add to that. Segment/divert things too much without reason and most people will be too put off to even bother riding if they can help it.

It would not kill things to have the running it's normal weekday route but extended to Jamaica Center (which also keeps 5th and Lexington Avenues on 53rd open as well as Court Square on that line, again, unless there is ALSO work going on in the 53rd Street tube that was not noted) to substitute for the and .  Yes, it's only eight cars as opposed to 10, but if need be, the as noted can also be extended to either Parsons or 179 to pick up the slack. 

As for running the via Nassau in this (as five-car trains): This clears out this line from Broadway and allows for local trains in both directions to stop at Jay-Metrotech and Court Street, both transfer points (and since this in this scenario, the would be running an extended version of its weekday route in place of the , this can use Essex to terminate).  Since the  is also running via the tunnel southbound in this scenario, that covers at Court and Jay-Metrotech southbound the short trains for most stations since the would also be a local on 4th Avenue in this.

Splitting the in two (59th-CC to 207 and Canal to Lefferts/Far Rockaway) while suspending the :  This reduces the possibility of the kind of nightmare bottleneck at West 4th some dread that can create far worse problems than the way I would do this.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

It's the old saying: Pay attention!

People who complain about things don't pay attention to changes and the like, something I've always remembered and when I don't I pay the price for it.  I can remember being unware of changes but that was my fault for not checking.  The way we are connected today, people should in most cases be able to use their phones to get updates and scheduled changes on a weekend and act accordingly.

It's far from perfect, but this is about working around two very significant G.O.'s taking place on the same weekend.  

The other thing you could do is have the run its normal weekday route (unless they are also doing work in the 53rd Street tube not mentioned in the original GO) but extended to Jamaica Center at all times in place of a suspended  and re-routed while the  runs between Essex and Bay Ridge with five-car trains, the runs local (via the Bridge to Manhattan only, mergers would only take place southbound) on 4th Avenue and in Manhattan (running to Astoria as usual otherwise) and the runs (local) in two sections between 207-Columbus Circle and Canal Street-Lefferts or Far Rockaway with the still suspended.  If you need additional service on QBL, you could extend the to Parsons Boulevard or 179 to avoid bottlenecking at 71-Continental. 

Explain why either sending the  to Euclid (replacing the ) or  to Jamaica Center (replacing the ) is less feasible and easier to understand than any of what you described.