Planned Subway Service Changes

[Wallyhorse]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:07 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The  would operate up to Atlantic (and it operates express between Atlantic and 36th Street).  

Since the  now operates 24/7 to South Ferry, I wonder why bother having the  terminate at Court Street and have this service arrangement. It made sense years ago, since the  was the only thing during late nights to operate to those stations. However, the  isn't normally scheduled to operate express on 4th Avenue (while the  is), so I feel that this creates unnecessary service patterns. I guess that 2-3 hour timeframe when the  is still operating to/from Queens complicates things a bit, but still. If it was a weekend service change though I would be onboard with the setup.

The  could have operated to Court all local, with the  would have just operated express between 36th and Atlantic during late nights. Currently,  trains start running local on 4th Avenue after 7 PM anyways (NB), so it can make local stops on 4th Avenue north of 36th Street and riders can use it to get to/from Manhattan. Also,  riders could transfer at DeKalb either the  and , or Jay Street for the  or  , but it is what is I suppose. The Queens-Manhattan part of the rerouted  could have been expanded  service to Forest Hills. However I'm assuming that rescheduling the  via 6th Avenue is probably easier.

This is what they usually state when the  operates along 63rd Street.

Maybe what they should have done for that period would have been to if necessary cut the to five-car trains and have it run late nights via Nassau after Court Street as a "Brown R" to Chambers or Essex Street (with perhaps if it Chambers done to where the would come into Chambers southbound directly before a so there are no issues at Broad Street).  

[Theli11]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

Maybe what they should have done for that period would have been to if necessary cut the to five-car trains and have it run late nights via Nassau after Court Street as a "Brown R" to Chambers or Essex Street (with perhaps if it Chambers done to where the would come into Chambers southbound directly before a so there are no issues at Broad Street).  

Why?

[Wallyhorse]

By running the  via Nassau in that scenario, it still goes into Manhattan and going to at least Chambers has it meeting up with the and  at Fulton and  and  at Chambers and if to Essex the there.  That covers pretty much everywhere missed by the Broadway lines being closed with limited exceptions. 

[Wallyhorse]

Just now, Wallyhorse said:

By running the  via Nassau in that scenario, it still goes into Manhattan and going to at least Chambers has it meeting up with the and  at Fulton and  and  at Chambers and if to Essex the there.  That covers pretty much everywhere missed by the Broadway lines being closed with limited exceptions. 

I forgot the and at Fulton as well.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

6 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

By running the  via Nassau in that scenario, it still goes into Manhattan and going to at least Chambers has it meeting up with the and  at Fulton and  and  at Chambers and if to Essex the there.  That covers pretty much everywhere missed by the Broadway lines being closed with limited exceptions. 

 

5 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

I forgot the and at Fulton as well.

The already connects to all those lines in Brooklyn, except for the . Not only is it unnecessary, but then riders would be caught off guard with smaller train lengths. 

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Maybe what they should have done for that period would have been to if necessary cut the to five-car trains and have it run late nights via Nassau after Court Street as a "Brown R" to Chambers or Essex Street (with perhaps if it Chambers done to where the would come into Chambers southbound directly before a so there are no issues at Broad Street).  

15 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

The already connects to all those lines in Brooklyn, except for the . Not only is it unnecessary, but then riders would be caught off guard with smaller train lengths. 

I kind of have to agree with him in this scenario, sure running the Brown R has it's benefits. Downside is that because of the  running shorter length trains now, it definitely will catch people off guard. Of course, this will eliminate the need of running more  trains since now all you need is a few full length trains, run similar service like the Late Night Lefferts  does and you're set. It also relieves some R160's from being worked to death as well which is a plus. But now you have more merging issues. First up is with the  and  lines, then later on when the  splits off at Dekalb Av continuing on with the . Then to split off from the  to run along Nassau St line to then merge with the . You could technically cut back the  at Chambers St which leaves both the  and Brown  to have a place to terminate without interference, almost. I say almost because the  still needs to turn back which will interfere with  service trying to run to downtown and vice versa with  service trying to run downtown and a  is trying to terminate or depart. Then you also have where the  loses capacity to terminate because it can only terminate on 1 track, but what's to say that the  to Broad St will be needed at all? Personally, there are a lot of issues as is with the current , it's best to not route late night  service to Chambers because that just doesn't really solve much, if not at all. I find Vanshnook's idea of deinterlining Dekalb Junction to be the best when it comes to  service at least. Just have that be a thing, but make the  the . More people know the  more than the  anyway.

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:33 PM, Vulturious said:

I kind of have to agree with him in this scenario, sure running the Brown R has it's benefits. Downside is that because of the  running shorter length trains now, it definitely will catch people off guard. Of course, this will eliminate the need of running more  trains since now all you need is a few full length trains, run similar service like the Late Night Lefferts  does and you're set. It also relieves some R160's from being worked to death as well which is a plus. But now you have more merging issues. First up is with the  and  lines, then later on when the  splits off at Dekalb Av continuing on with the . Then to split off from the  to run along Nassau St line to then merge with the . You could technically cut back the  at Chambers St which leaves both the  and Brown  to have a place to terminate without interference, almost. I say almost because the  still needs to turn back which will interfere with  service trying to run to downtown and vice versa with  service trying to run downtown and a  is trying to terminate or depart. Then you also have where the  loses capacity to terminate because it can only terminate on 1 track, but what's to say that the  to Broad St will be needed at all? Personally, there are a lot of issues as is with the current , it's best to not route late night  service to Chambers because that just doesn't really solve much, if not at all. I find Vanshnook's idea of deinterlining Dekalb Junction to be the best when it comes to  service at least. Just have that be a thing, but make the  the . More people know the  more than the  anyway.

 

But not in Bay Ridge. That’s always been served by the  train (the  before 1986 and the #2 in BMT days). I like Vanshnook’s idea of de-interlining DeKalb, but so far the MTA haven’t shown any inclination towards considering it.

[Vulturious]

3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But not in Bay Ridge. That’s always been served by the  train (the  before 1986 and the #2 in BMT days). I like Vanshnook’s idea of de-interlining DeKalb, but so far the MTA haven’t shown any inclination towards considering it.

Bay Ridge, no, West End, yes. The  rarely ever makes service along West End anyway, meanwhile I see  trains along West End more often. Plus, that line was born on West End.

You're also not wrong about the MTA not caring about the idea, what's to say they even came across it to begin with? I personally do hope for this to come to fruition if they ever do come across it. There are a lot of benefits to come from this asides from West End getting shafted to running local along 4 Av, but at the very least, people can transfer over to a  or  if they wanted. It's practically guaranteed to get since both are running express on 6 Av, so if anyone wanted faster travel into midtown you got that.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

21 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Bay Ridge, no, West End, yes. The  rarely ever makes service along West End anyway, meanwhile I see  trains along West End more often. Plus, that line was born on West End.

You're also not wrong about the MTA not caring about the idea, what's to say they even came across it to begin with? I personally do hope for this to come to fruition if they ever do come across it. There are a lot of benefits to come from this asides from West End getting shafted to running local along 4 Av, but at the very least, people can transfer over to a  or  if they wanted. It's practically guaranteed to get since both are running express on 6 Av, so if anyone wanted faster travel into midtown you got that.

True, but this is more of a long term idea. 

[Mtatransit]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:05 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

but then riders would be caught off guard with smaller train lengths. 

I'm surprised that the  still use full train lengths during overnight hours, considering the fact that it used to be a shuttle

The  still used OPTO when they extended it to Essex St

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 5/22/2021 at 2:41 AM, Vulturious said:

Bay Ridge, no, West End, yes. The  rarely ever makes service along West End anyway, meanwhile I see  trains along West End more often. Plus, that line was born on West End.

You're also not wrong about the MTA not caring about the idea, what's to say they even came across it to begin with? I personally do hope for this to come to fruition if they ever do come across it. There are a lot of benefits to come from this asides from West End getting shafted to running local along 4 Av, but at the very least, people can transfer over to a  or  if they wanted. It's practically guaranteed to get since both are running express on 6 Av, so if anyone wanted faster travel into midtown you got that.

 

On 5/22/2021 at 11:48 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

True, but this is more of a long term idea. 

Although, with a  via the West End Line, you can also have a peak-direction West End <W> express, which may make up for the West End train running local. The West End Line is a curvy route with a lot of stops between Stillwell and 36th. It might be one way to sweeten the deal.

[Daniel The Cool]

Seems like we're going back to the old days of the  Trains running in two sections

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 2 - 6, Fri 9:45 PM to Tue 5 AM (includes holiday)
Service runs in two sections and is rerouted in Manhattan

No downtown  service at 7 Av, 47-50 Sts, 42 St-Bryant Pk and 34 St-Herald Sq.

trains run in two sections: 
 1. Between 205 St and W 4 St, and via the to/from World Trade Center, the last stop 
     • Downtown trains run via the local from 59 St-Columbus Circle to Canal St. 
     • Uptown trains run via the from World Trade Center to W 4 St then local to 34 St-Herald Sq, resuming normal service. 
 2. Between W 4 St and Stillwell Av

[Wallyhorse]

I'm guessing this is doing work in the express tunnels and on the southbound track between 47-50 and 7th Avenue? 

[Around the Horn]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I'm guessing this is doing work in the express tunnels and on the southbound track between 47-50 and 7th Avenue? 

Track replacement on the southbound express track between Rockefeller Center and Bryant Park

Edited June 7, 2021 by Around the Horn

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

This is actually part of a longer change to accomodate, among other things, track and CBTC work July 2 to Aug 2

Weeknights, downtown runs via 8 ave, and / routes are swapped south of W4

Weekends

runs in 2 sections, Bronx to WTC and W4 lower to Brooklyn

Downtown north section runs via 8 Ave local south of 59th

Uptown north section runs local W4 to 47/50

Queens bound via 8 ave express

Uptown via Jay to W4, 8 Ave local to 59th

On mobile so can someone post the link and or correct me if needed. 

 

[nightmare402]

this caught my attention

 

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 7:20 AM to 8:50 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29 (except Jul 5 & Sep 6)
Some downtown trains will run via the  after 149 St-Grand Concourse

Three trips will run via the from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Franklin Av-Medgar Evers College, then make the last stop at the Utica Av 3 4 Station.

Two trips will run via the after 149 St-Grand Concourse and make the last stop at the Rector St Station.

Travel Alternatives:
Transfer at 149 St-Grand Concourse to a Flatbush Av-bound 5 train.

In Manhattan, transfer at Times Sq-42 St to the  (ad) or the for Grand Central-42 St (ad), where service is available. If you're on a train terminating at Rector St, transfer to the 2 at Chambers St ad for service to Brooklyn.

(ad) This service change affects one or more ADA accessible stations and these travel alternatives may not be fully accessible. Please contact 511 to plan your trip.

For travel alternatives:

Edited June 14, 2021 by nightmare402

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, nightmare402 said:

this caught my attention

 

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 7:20 AM to 8:50 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29 (except Jul 5 & Sep 6)
Some downtown trains will run via the  after 149 St-Grand Concourse

Three trips will run via the from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Franklin Av-Medgar Evers College, then make the last stop at the Utica Av 3 4 Station.

Two trips will run via the after 149 St-Grand Concourse and make the last stop at the Rector St Station.

Travel Alternatives:
Transfer at 149 St-Grand Concourse to a Flatbush Av-bound 5 train.

In Manhattan, transfer at Times Sq-42 St to the  (ad) or the for Grand Central-42 St (ad), where service is available. If you're on a train terminating at Rector St, transfer to the 2 at Chambers St ad for service to Brooklyn.

(ad) This service change affects one or more ADA accessible stations and these travel alternatives may not be fully accessible. Please contact 511 to plan your trip.

For travel alternatives:

Why Rector St? They do know South Ferry Loop is closed right?

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why Rector St? They do know South Ferry Loop is closed right?

They probably are using the loop in the former station to have such trains turn. 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Is there a slow order somewhere that is causing this?

[Mysterious2train]

1 hour ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Is there a slow order somewhere that is causing this?

Looks to be related to this

Quote

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 6:30 AM to 9 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29
Downtown trains will stop at 138 St-Grand Concourse during the morning rush hour 

Reminder: Downtown trains stop at this station all other times. 

 

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 4 PM to 6 PM, Jun 21 - Oct 29
Uptown trains will stop at 138 St-Grand Concourse during the evening rush hour 

Reminder: Uptown trains stop at this station all other times. 

Somebody more in the know can confirm, but guessing the middle track at 149th on Jerome is being used to store equipment for the ADA accessibility work at the complex, so the  is running on the local track in both directions, and to reduce potential merging delays between 138th and 149th a handful of  trips are being sent via 7th Ave. Those rerouted trips seem to only be during the AM though.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Mysterious2train

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why Rector St? They do know South Ferry Loop is closed right?

Looks like they're gonna go OOS at Rector St, pass through the loop and re-enter uptown service at Bowling Green

[darkstar8983]

14 hours ago, Mysterious2train said:

Looks to be related to this

Somebody more in the know can confirm, but guessing the middle track at 149th on Jerome is being used to store equipment for the ADA accessibility work at the complex, so the  is running on the local track in both directions, and to reduce potential merging delays between 138th and 149th a handful of  trips are being sent via 7th Ave. Those rerouted trips seem to only be during the AM though.

Yes I think it is the regularly scheduled short-turn  trains that end at bowling green or Utica Avenue that are affected

[Lawrence St]

On 6/14/2021 at 11:27 AM, nightmare402 said:

this caught my attention

 

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 7:20 AM to 8:50 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29 (except Jul 5 & Sep 6)
Some downtown trains will run via the  after 149 St-Grand Concourse

Three trips will run via the from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Franklin Av-Medgar Evers College, then make the last stop at the Utica Av 3 4 Station.

Two trips will run via the after 149 St-Grand Concourse and make the last stop at the Rector St Station.

Travel Alternatives:
Transfer at 149 St-Grand Concourse to a Flatbush Av-bound 5 train.

In Manhattan, transfer at Times Sq-42 St to the  (ad) or the for Grand Central-42 St (ad), where service is available. If you're on a train terminating at Rector St, transfer to the 2 at Chambers St ad for service to Brooklyn.

(ad) This service change affects one or more ADA accessible stations and these travel alternatives may not be fully accessible. Please contact 511 to plan your trip.

For travel alternatives:

The way how they're doing this service change is completely stupid IMO. 

It should be:

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 7:20 AM to 8:50 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29 (except Jul 5 & Sep 6)
Some downtown trains will begin at Dyre Av instead of 241st St.

Two trips will operate normally between East 180th St & Chambers St, and via the local line to Rector St, the last stop.

Three trips will operate normally between East 180th St & Franklin Av, and via the to Utica Av, the last stop.

See how easy that was and no confusion? Why are we going call trains operating along the majority on the 7th Av Line a when it's suppose to be a ?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

35 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The way how they're doing this service change is completely stupid IMO. 

It should be:

ACCESSIBILITY IMPROVEMENTS
Mon to Fri, 7:20 AM to 8:50 AM, Jun 21 - Oct 29 (except Jul 5 & Sep 6)
Some downtown trains will begin at Dyre Av instead of 241st St.

Two trips will operate normally between East 180th St & Chambers St, and via the local line to Rector St, the last stop.

Three trips will operate normally between East 180th St & Franklin Av, and via the to Utica Av, the last stop.

See how easy that was and no confusion? Why are we going call trains operating along the majority on the 7th Av Line a when it's suppose to be a ?

People would just assume those Rector Street bound  trains are going to Brooklyn on the southern end, and then would have to transfer at Chambers Street if they're one of those trips to Rector Street (that or be caught off guard when the train pulls into Cortlandt Street). 

The also doesn't normally go to Utica. Neither does the , but it would make no sense to bring the into that if those specific trips are trains. 

If the trains were going to Flatbush, then I would agree with you. Ultimately, some group of riders would have to have some of their regular trips end somewhere else.

Edited June 16, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Lawrence St]

13 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

People would just assume those Rector Street bound  trains are going to Brooklyn on the southern end, and then would have to transfer at Chambers Street if they're one of those trips to Rector Street (that or be caught off guard when the train pulls into Cortlandt Street). 

The also doesn't normally go to Utica. Neither does the , but it would make no sense to bring the into that if those specific trips are trains. 

If the trains were going to Flatbush, then I would agree with you. Ultimately, some group of riders would have to have some of their regular trips end somewhere else.

The  does have scheduled trips to New Lots Av. The  trips to Utica Av continue Not In Service to New Lots Av and stay there for the PM rush, so frankly its actually better.