R211 Discussion

[Lance]

It's interesting they decided to go forward with the 46s' replacements being 60 feet long instead of 75 feet. I would've thought they'd be 75 footers on the sole basis that it'd be cheaper to maintain with a smaller number of total cars.

[Eric B]

So that's what they're going to look like? Never seen that illustration before.

[Culver]

Yeesh. Some looker, that design concept. I do hope they were serious when they said a few years back it would be more advanced and "green" (kidding aside, greater energy efficiency is always good). Maybe, I don't know, not have them weigh as much as the sun like the bloated R160s do.

[GojiMet86]

Guess someone, somewhere in SubChat was wrong about the 60' length.

[LTA1992]

Well the MTA did shift back to 60 foot cars for a reason. On another note, have anyone seen the Wikipedia page on the R211? Whoever edited that page did it way to unprofessionally for my taste.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R211_(New_York_City_Subway_car)

[bobtehpanda]

I wonder if the MTA has ever considered having a digital LCD replicate the look of the R44-R68 style rollsigns on the front of the car.

[Fan Railer]

Well the MTA did shift back to 60 foot cars for a reason. On another note, have anyone seen the Wikipedia page on the R211? Whoever edited that page did it way to unprofessionally for my taste.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R211_(New_York_City_Subway_car)

Worry not. I fixed the crap out of that page lol.

 

Namely removing that personal prose, in addition to the SIR mentions. No source currently states the cars will be purchased for the SIR, so it's better to wait until that order is announced.

[GojiMet86]

Yeah, some guy on FB did that.

[R10 2952]

Longer cars would have made more sense... I also don't see why the new cars have to be so radical and fancy.  Perhaps they could take some design cues from the R-38s and such instead.

[Lance]

I'm going to have to disagree on that one. While the design of the 38s and similar cars was novel at the time, I don't feel we should be replicating a design from over 40 years ago.

 

On the subject of the conceptual drawing of the 211, remember, it's just a concept. The production cars will likely look as radical as the concept does appear now.

[R10 2952]

Look at the Toronto T-series. They basically reused the design from the H-1/2.  It worked for them, didn't it?

[ttcsubwayfan]

Look at the Toronto T-series. They basically reused the design from the H-1/2.  It worked for them, didn't it?

 

Depends on how you look at it. The T1s, which are a bit dated at this point, having debuted in 1995/96 most definitely took design cues from the Montreal built 'M1' cars - the most significant changes being the sizes of the doors and windows - as did the H1 thru H6 cars that followed the Montrealers, which most significantly had different looking end caps. However, the newest Toronto Rockets are quite the departure from the M1 - the end caps are a big one, as well as the fact that there's only one window between doors instead of two, no windows at the ends of the cars beyond the doors, etc.

 

Having said that however, it's also worth mentioning that, despite said differences, Toronto has managed to keep their cars built in a mostly uniform square shape, but New York has reinvented wheel more times than you can count. While even the Rockets have a basic toaster shape that dates from as far back as the Gloucesters in 1954, the modern cars of today (discounting the R32s) have little in common with the R17s, what with how the 75 footers and R143/160s get slightly narrower at the top and bottom, so it's a lot harder to reuse old designs. Out of curiosity, what exactly did you have in mind when you suggested design cues from the R38s?

 

The concept drawing looks hideous, though.

[JayJay85]

They also need a option order of 300 cars, 80 cars for SIR service and 220 cars for fleet growth and service increases on and lines.

[LTA1992]

The growth cars are going to be a part of the order. Since it may seem that the 940 60ft cars are an exact replacement for all the R46 cars, I'm guessing there may be an option or two.

[Woodside7878]

the R211 illustration look like a futuristic upgrade of R46 at the front.

[Eric B]

Or a subway counterpart to the M8's. 

I'm surprised they would go back to the flush end doors. I thought they did away with that after the 46's, because there's really not enough stepping area on the anticlimber like that. I know on the 44/46's, it was always scary, because the door could knock you right off of it, and it was hard to hang on fumbling for the keys after climbing up, and then tryying to open it in that little space.

 

Otherwise, the flush door always looked nicer, and is of course more aerodynamically efficient. Wonder if they hae a bigger anticlimber, but in this drawing, it doesn't look like it.

[bstar1]

Its still going to be like r160 especially since its 60ft and not 75ft.

[mine248]

Or a subway counterpart to the M8's. 

I'm surprised they would go back to the flush end doors. I thought they did away with that after the 46's, because there's really not enough stepping area on the anticlimber like that. I know on the 44/46's, it was always scary, because the door could knock you right off of it, and it was hard to hang on fumbling for the keys after climbing up, and then tryying to open it in that little space.

 

Otherwise, the flush door always looked nicer, and is of course more aerodynamically efficient. Wonder if they hae a bigger anticlimber, but in this drawing, it doesn't look like it.

Flush door are pretty dangerous, but why couldn't we try the front door on the side like the Toronto Rocket? They can put a lock (like the old fashioned doors) and put something like this “Remove the cab door after locking the door.” Then the old trick on the doors are over. They said on one report that a possible design would include gangway between cars. So the R211 should be somehow the same design, but 60 feet for each cars, and the same size like the R160 for walkway to each cars. We can do it like a 5 car fixed configuration and a 4 car fixed configuration.

[ttcsubwayfan]

 

 

Flush door are pretty dangerous, but why couldn't we try the front door on the side like the Toronto Rocket?

 

The front door is not on the side. The side door is for the driver to enter the cab when there is crowding in the passenger compartment. The front door is still on the front.

 

[R10 2952]

Having said that however, it's also worth mentioning that, despite said differences, Toronto has managed to keep their cars built in a mostly uniform square shape, but New York has reinvented wheel more times than you can count. While even the Rockets have a basic toaster shape that dates from as far back as the Gloucesters in 1954, the modern cars of today (discounting the R32s) have little in common with the R17s, what with how the 75 footers and R143/160s get slightly narrower at the top and bottom, so it's a lot harder to reuse old designs. Out of curiosity, what exactly did you have in mind when you suggested design cues from the R38s?

Generally speaking, I value designs that are straightforward, functional, and simple. The R38s are a good example of this, as are designs such as the ACMU cars from MNRR. None of that computer hi-tech bullshit (*cough-R160s*). I think Toronto was right to keep a standard design over so many years.

[bobtehpanda]

Generally speaking, I value designs that are straightforward, functional, and simple. The R38s are a good example of this, as are designs such as the ACMU cars from MNRR. None of that computer hi-tech bullshit (*cough-R160s*). I think Toronto was right to keep a standard design over so many years.

 

The R160s have significantly improved passenger information systems and are CBTC capable. There's a reason why the R62As aren't staying on the , and why the doesn't use older trains anymore...

[mine248]

The front door is not on the side. The side door is for the driver to enter the cab when there is crowding in the passenger compartment. The front door is still on the front.

 

What is that? A image in a 2015-2019 Capital Plan shows flush front doors.

[East New York]

I'm actually really excited about the confirmation. I tend to get a bunch of info on subways from time to time, and this is one of those times. Most of you have noticed that I post the preliminary confirmed info for subways, then I back out and let you guys have at it. If you all would like, I can start doing a full review on the R179/R211 saga.

 

If I do they will be classified together, as the firm configuration of the R211 is dependent on a successful introduction of the R179 in more ways than people may realize.

[mine248]

I'm actually really excited about the confirmation. I tend to get a bunch of info on subways from time to time, and this is one of those times. Most of you have noticed that I post the preliminary confirmed info for subways, then I back out and let you guys have at it. If you all would like, I can start doing a full review on the R179/R211 saga.

 

If I do they will be classified together, as the firm configuration of the R211 is dependent on a successful introduction of the R179 in more ways than people may realize.

Me too! It's cool!

[ttcsubwayfan]

What is that? A image in a 2015-2019 Capital Plan shows flush front doors.

 

The Toronto Rocket. I posted it in response to your claim that the TR had its front door on the side.