R211 Discussion

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Agreed. We really just don't know yet. They may be leaning towards 60-foot cars, but could change their minds when it comes time to actually put the contract out to bid. It's possible that whomever is leaning toward 60-footers may not even be there when the time comes to put out the contract.

[LTA1992]

There are people still saying this is "confirmed info". It's getting tiring trying to say otherwise.

[mine248]

They won't run extra trains because the rest of the line doesn't need the extra service. They will just have a new second Astoria service to replace the , most likely called the , which will run local and short-turn at Whitehall St, possibly with some limited rush hour service in southern Brooklyn.

Remember the 2010 budget cuts? The discontinued the and the trains. They may need extra trains for the summer months for trips to Coney Island, and for replacement trains will take over the existing train service.

[RollOver]

They may need extra trains for the summer months for trips to Coney Island, and for replacement trains will take over the existing train service.

 

Does that make any sense? You make it sound like everybody on the Astoria, Broadway and 4th Avenue will all pile onto just one line instead of the others that also serve those corridors mentioned.

[RollOver]

Anyway, this thread is about the future R211, not the train.

[mine248]

Anyway, this thread is about the future R211, not the train.

The future R211 train would do what it says here:

They may need extra trains for the summer months for trips to Coney Island, and for replacement trains will take over the existing train service. The R211 would do that.

[Art Vandelay]

Those replacement N trains will turn at Whitehall and will be called "W". 

[GojiMet86]

Those replacement N trains will turn at Whitehall and will be called "W". 

 

Anything about the W is pure speculation. There is no definite plane for a W, just speculation on our part.

[DJ MC]

Anything about the W is pure speculation. There is no definite plane for a W, just speculation on our part.

 

The is coming back, since something has to run to Astoria, once the is re-routed to 96th Street of the Second Avenue Subway. 

[GojiMet86]

The is coming back, since something has to run to Astoria, once the is re-routed to 96th Street of the Second Avenue Subway. 

 

But there are no plans, no PDFs, nothing on the part of the MTA. I also believe it's going to come back, but we don't actually know.

[Lance]

Remember the 2010 budget cuts? The discontinued the and the trains. They may need extra trains for the summer months for trips to Coney Island, and for replacement trains will take over the existing train service.

The future R211 train would do what it says here:

They may need extra trains for the summer months for trips to Coney Island, and for replacement trains will take over the existing train service. The R211 would do that.

Anything about the W is pure speculation. There is no definite plane for a W, just speculation on our part.

Transit pretty much has to bring back the W when the Q starts serving Second Ave. Running only the N on the Astoria line will require almost doubling said service. Unless 4th Avenue and Sea Beach gets a significant boost in ridership, having that many trains on those corridors will be a massive waste. That means there will likely be short-turns and having some N trains drop out at Whitehall while others continue on to Coney Island will cause confusion. For an example of how the MTA has been trying to avoid that kind of confusion, I direct you to the last phase of the Manhattan Bridge reconstruction project. Instead of returning to the '80s pattern of 6th Avenue and Broadway B and D trains, they decided to give the Brighton and West End services the letters Q and W respectively.

 

So, no, rather then resurrecting the diamond-N of days gone by, they'll give those short-turned N trains a different letter, especially if one line is going to run express while the other is local. 

[GojiMet86]

Transit pretty much has to bring back the W when the Q starts serving Second Ave. Running only the N on the Astoria line will require almost doubling said service. Unless 4th Avenue and Sea Beach gets a significant boost in ridership, having that many trains on those corridors will be a massive waste. That means there will likely be short-turns and having some N trains drop out at Whitehall while others continue on to Coney Island will cause confusion. For an example of how the MTA has been trying to avoid that kind of confusion, I direct you to the last phase of the Manhattan Bridge reconstruction project. Instead of returning to the '80s pattern of 6th Avenue and Broadway B and D trains, they decided to give the Brighton and West End services the letters Q and W respectively.

 

So, no, rather then resurrecting the diamond-N of days gone by, they'll give those short-turned N trains a different letter, especially if one line is going to run express while the other is local. 

I'd just prefer to hear the official confirmation, rather than us doing our best guesses, that's all.

[RollOver]

Transit pretty much has to bring back the W when the Q starts serving Second Ave. Running only the N on the Astoria line will require almost doubling said service. Unless 4th Avenue and Sea Beach gets a significant boost in ridership, having that many trains on those corridors will be a massive waste. That means there will likely be short-turns and having some N trains drop out at Whitehall while others continue on to Coney Island will cause confusion. For an example of how the MTA has been trying to avoid that kind of confusion, I direct you to the last phase of the Manhattan Bridge reconstruction project. Instead of returning to the '80s pattern of 6th Avenue and Broadway B and D trains, they decided to give the Brighton and West End services the letters Q and W respectively.

 

So, no, rather then resurrecting the diamond-N of days gone by, they'll give those short-turned N trains a different letter, especially if one line is going to run express while the other is local.

Exactly, you don't need to run a shitload of trains at 50% or so on the entire or routes during the off-peak. I remember they did this crap with the entire route, overserving the Jerome branch and the Lexington Express, until the midday was extended to/from Brooklyn. Who the hell is to say that the other lines they interact with (and/or are a few blocks down) can't handle the extra load?

[Art Vandelay]

The W has to come back, Astoria requires the service it has now. If it did not, the Q would never have been extended. The N cannot be doubled due to DeKalb being near capacity.

Also, while such has not been formally announced, it has been mentioned at SAS meetings.

[R142A7565]

Why everyone want  line to come back. When this topic about R211 replacing R46.. To the point Coney Island yard will not receive R211 so on.. if everyone want  line to come back it will be running on Weekdays & Late Night not on.. I mean there wont be  service in Weekend.. They will go back to the old plan that  will run between the old service return . That between Astoria Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall Street in Weekdays.. in a.m. rush hour or p.m. rush hour  line run Astoria Blvd to Bay Parkway with the .. So  could go back to the Coney Island Yard Shop. I am guessing it will be worthless to bring  back when it will not run on Weekend .. They will go back to old plan..

[RollOver]

Why everyone want  line to come back. When this topic about R211 replacing R46.. To the point Coney Island yard will not receive R211 so on.. if everyone want  line to come back it will be running on Weekdays & Late Night not on.. I mean there wont be  service in Weekend.. They will go back to the old plan that  will run between the old service return . That between Astoria Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall Street in Weekdays.. in a.m. rush hour or p.m. rush hour  line run Astoria Blvd to Bay Parkway with the .. So  could go back to the Coney Island Yard Shop. I am guessing it will be worthless to bring  back when it will not run on Weekend .. They will go back to old plan..

 

And the doesn't run on weekends...what's your point?

[GojiMet86]

And the doesn't run on weekends...what's your point?

 

Lol, none.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Why everyone want line to come back. When this topic about R211 replacing R46.. To the point Coney Island yard will not receive R211 so on.. if everyone want line to come back it will be running on Weekdays & Late Night not on.. I mean there wont be service in Weekend.. They will go back to the old plan that will run between the old service return . That between Astoria Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall Street in Weekdays.. in a.m. rush hour or p.m. rush hour line run Astoria Blvd to Bay Parkway with the .. So could go back to the Coney Island Yard Shop. I am guessing it will be worthless to bring back when it will not run on Weekend .. They will go back to old plan..

What?

 

First, we don't know what yards will get the R211 cars because the contract has not even been put out to bid. Hell, we don't even know for sure whether the cars are going to be 60 or 75 feet long.

 

Second, I don't know if you're trying to say this or not, so I will: It would be useless to run the late nights or weekends. Hell, it might not even be useful to run it on weekdays after 8 pm, but the MTA did run it weekdays after 8, so maybe they knew something we didn't know. The W's primary function would be to provide extra service on the Astoria Line when the moves over to 2nd Ave, and also to provide extra local service on Broadway when the weekday moves back to the express tracks. For those of you who think resurrecting the would be (W)asteful and that they should just run more trains, keep in mind that the Brooklyn portion of the line is far from crowded and doesn't need the extra service.

 

So terminate the extra trains at Whitehall then, you say? That's exactly what they did...except the extra trains displayed a on the front and side signs. Because, in essence, that's what the W train was from 2004-10. But because the service was based out of Coney Island yard, trains had to get to/from to go into/out of service. The "new" W will have to be, as well. So why not run the "new" W in passenger service during rush hours in Brooklyn? Why not run the rush hour via the line to/from Bay Pkwy to 36th St, then via the line from 36th St on and into Manhattan? Middays, the W can continue to turn at Whitehall as it did before it got cut, because the extra Brooklyn service might not be needed.

[realizm]

The is coming back, since something has to run to Astoria, once the is re-routed to 96th Street of the Second Avenue Subway. 

 

If the MTA did not have to activate the service cuts and phase out lines, from losing millions of dollars to Albany, during the doomsday cut the W would have still been in operation. The W was axed because of *budget cuts* not low ridership as some like to point out, that's what people need to understand!

 

We need Astoria service sine the Q will be going to Second Avenue, so something needs to replace the Q's former Queens terminal. The Astoria line needs two services to fulfill passenger demand. If the N is local that wouldn't make sense either as the Broadway line can handle two express services, but again after the Q is redirected to Second Ave, something has to fill the gap.The reactivation of the W will solve that problem. The city can fund it, as money toward operation for a specified period of time is included in the total amount to build phase 1 at least.

 

So a N express and W local will be ideal.

What?

 

First, we don't know what yards will get the R211 cars because the contract has not even been put out to bid. Hell, we don't even know for sure whether the cars are going to be 60 or 75 feet long.

 

? Middays, the W can continue to turn at Whitehall as it did before it got cut, because the extra Brooklyn service might not be needed.

 

Pitkin and 207th street shop for heavy maintainance, also Jamaica (The E train). Some will be at CI if they carry out their plan to increase N service.

[RollOver]

@Realizm

 

You also gotta remember, it was much simpler to just extend the weekday to/from Astoria and have the as the Bway local 24/7 north of Canal, than it was to run the and short turn the at 57th.

 

There really was no point in the at all between 2004 and 2010. Plus, there's nothing wrong with the running local north of Canal Street (unlike what many people have been saying), as long as it's still a Manhattan Bridge-4th Ave Express/Sea Beach Lcl.

 

@T to Dyre Avenue

 

You gotta remember, when the begins at 5:00-6:00 in the morning, it comes out of Coney Island yard and goes into service via the Sea Beach at 86th or Kings Hwy. Then, it ends at around 10:00-11:00 in the night, it stays in service via the Montague Tubes, 4th Ave/Sea Beach and drops out at either Kings Hwy or 86th.

 

Also, I'm sure you guys understand that more people from South Brooklyn work in Midtown Manhattan than Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan. People on the West End and Sea Beach branches are just going to pass up the locals for the expresses via the Manhattan Bridge. Similar to how the becomes much less crowded as soon as it leaves Downtown Brooklyn and enters Lower Manhattan.

[realizm]

@Realizm

 

You also gotta remember, it was much simpler to just extend the weekday to/from Astoria and have the as the Bway local 24/7 north of Canal, than it was to run the and short turn the at 57th.

 

There really was no point in the at all between 2004 and 2010. Plus, there's nothing wrong with the running local north of Canal Street (unlike what many people have been saying), as long as it's still a Manhattan Bridge-4th Ave Express/Sea Beach Lcl.

 

@T to Dyre Avenue

 

You gotta remember, when the begins at 5:00-6:00 in the morning, it comes out of Coney Island yard and goes into service via the Sea Beach at 86th or Kings Hwy. Then, it ends at around 10:00-11:00 in the night, it stays in service via the Montague Tubes, 4th Ave/Sea Beach and drops out at either Kings Hwy or 86th.

 

Also, I'm sure you guys understand that more people from South Brooklyn work in Midtown Manhattan than Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan. People on the West End and Sea Beach branches are just going to pass up the locals for the expresses via the Manhattan Bridge. Similar to how the becomes much less crowded as soon as it leaves Downtown Brooklyn and enters Lower Manhattan.

 

Yeh but the Second Avenue line, the Q wont be able to go to Astoria. No secondary service. The W can fill that gap.

[Fan Railer]

This is so far off topic I can't even lol... perhaps someone should make a separate thread for this.

[jolusoji]

This is so far off topic I can't even lol... perhaps someone should make a separate thread for this.

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/45918-reguarding-the-future-of-nqand-w-after-sas/

I just made the topic now

[realizm]

Even though we are about a year away from pinning this thread, I do have a minor update. As many may have noticed, the MTA is aggressively trying to complete existing programs on schedule. Full funding for the R211 project is expected in the 2015-2019 Capital Plan.

 

As of today, the project remains on schedule, and it is now expected that the final design of the R211 cars will be frozen in February 2016. The final design should then be approved an finalized in March of the same year.

 

The MTA has chosen this time frame because the R179 is expected to be in revenue service, and MTA can plan exactly how and when the fleet will be replaced at that point. It is crucial that Bombardier prove themselves by this time, and they will compete with Kawasaki for the contract.

 

It is also expected that the cars will be 60 feet in length, and part of the fleet will go to Staten Island. The days of 75 feet cars may officially be coming to an end.

 

You was right on the money and so was I. The 2015-19 capital budget plan has been released. It states thatm the R211s will be 60' cars (page 17):

 

 

 

 

 

[Union Tpke]

http://www.mta.info/news-capital-plan-five-year-plan-east-side-access-second-avenue-subway-lirr-metro-north-new-york

http://web.mta.info/capital/pdf/Board_2015-2019_Capital_Program.pdf