Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Wallyhorse]

Here is Andrew Lynch's latest plan for the SAS.

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2017/05/the-future-of-the-2nd-avenue-subway/#imageclose-2909

 

My comment is on that page.

Some excellent stuff there:

 

While it would require extending many of the existing stations on the Broadway-Brooklyn line to be expanded to handle 600' trains (something that needs to be done anyway for other reasons), having the and moved to that line via new connections at Christie Street with the replacing that along the north Manhattan Bridge Tunnel with it going straight into Grand Street makes a lot of sense.  

 

Also making a lot of sense (via new connections that would be straight) would have the Montague Street line connect to the currently unused local tracks of the Fulton Street Line.  This would allow for greater flexibility since it would for example allow for the and possibly to run after lower Manhattan via the local on Fulton, with one or both lines running to Euclid (or further).  This allows for the Fulton Street line to potentially have connections to the Broadway and Fulton Street lines.

 

The interesting one is new subway between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills that would be used by the at all times and the in rush hours only (with the express along Fulton) as the would take over as the full-time Fulton Street local.  Yes, that eliminates the one-seat ride on the existing Broadway-Brooklyn line (as the is this proposal would at the existing Broadway Junction station on that line with the line past there to Cypress Hills demolished (and replaced by a new subway line between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills via new connections from the Fulton Street Line), but it also does eliminate slow curves that likely makes a two-seat ride (especially since Broadway Junction would be the terminal for new Broadway-Brooklyn trains).

 

Also like the idea of the running from Metropolitan Avenue (replacing the that would be decommissioned) and becoming a 19/7 line running to 145 (Rush Hours to Bedford Park Boulevard).   That might make more sense in this total reconstruction as well.

[Mtatransit]

Some excellent stuff there:

While it would require extending many of the existing stations on the Broadway-Brooklyn line to be expanded to handle 600' trains (something that needs to be done anyway for other reasons), having the and moved to that line via new connections at Christie Street with the replacing that along the north Manhattan Bridge Tunnel with it going straight into Grand Street makes a lot of sense.  

Also making a lot of sense (via new connections that would be straight) would have the Montague Street line connect to the currently unused local tracks of the Fulton Street Line.  This would allow for greater flexibility since it would for example allow for the and possibly to run after lower Manhattan via the local on Fulton, with one or both lines running to Euclid (or further).  This allows for the Fulton Street line to potentially have connections to the Broadway and Fulton Street lines.

The interesting one is new subway between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills that would be used by the at all times and the in rush hours only (with the express along Fulton) as the would take over as the full-time Fulton Street local.  Yes, that eliminates the one-seat ride on the existing Broadway-Brooklyn line (as the is this proposal would at the existing Broadway Junction station on that line with the line past there to Cypress Hills demolished (and replaced by a new subway line between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills via new connections from the Fulton Street Line), but it also does eliminate slow curves that likely makes a two-seat ride (especially since Broadway Junction would be the terminal for new Broadway-Brooklyn trains).

Also like the idea of the running from Metropolitan Avenue (replacing the that would be decommissioned) and becoming a 19/7 line running to 145 (Rush Hours to Bedford Park Boulevard).   That might make more sense in this total reconstruction as well.

Ok I don't really think I understand your proposal, you mentioned . How will the get on the Fulton St Line? to Broadway Junction??!!! What will go to Norwood, or Coney Island??

[MysteriousBtrain]

Ok I don't really think I understand your proposal, you mentioned . How will the get on the Fulton St Line? to Broadway Junction??!!! What will go to Norwood, or Coney Island??

Check the link Union posted.

[Mtatransit]

Have a feeling the H Train would be alittle too long from Brighton to Rockaway Park. Maybe a train that starts at 125/CPW Station to Rockaway Park via 63 St should be considered (if capacity on the 2Av Line north of Lex/63rd is not a issue)

[BreeddekalbL]

Have a feeling the H Train would be alittle too long from Brighton to Rockaway Park. Maybe a train that starts at 125/CPW Station to Rockaway Park via 63 St should be considered (if capacity on the 2Av Line north of Lex/63rd is not a issue)

 

problem is the provision from the 63rd street tunnel coming from queens  is west to south  and only at lexington ave 63rd is it east to north

[Union Tpke]

Have a feeling the H Train would be alittle too long from Brighton to Rockaway Park. Maybe a train that starts at 125/CPW Station to Rockaway Park via 63 St should be considered (if capacity on the 2Av Line north of Lex/63rd is not a issue)

 

I also noticed that.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Andrew's track maps have been great to see, and with some bellmouths that I get a closer look at, I think that north of Fresh Pond Road a new line could be built using the ROW between a new Metro Av and 51 Av, then connect the subway to the bellmouths at 78 St. I would make this a new (or simply a new between Roosevelt Avenue and Broadway (upper level) making stops at Queens Blvd, Grand Av, Elliot Av, Metro Av, then all stops to Broadway)

 

If the area wasn't used for freight and was abandoned like the RBB I would like this idea a bit more, but I know that because of that this idea is just a dream.

[BreeddekalbL]

would it be possible to do a 2 for 1 replacement as in replace lorimer and hewes street on the    and   for a unified broadway station which allows for connection to the   ?

[P3F]

would it be possible to do a 2 for 1 replacement as in replace lorimer and hewes street on the and for a unified broadway station which allows for connection to the ?

It would be much cheaper to extend the platforms at Lorimer Street to make them 600 feet long, and cover the rest of the distance with a passageway.

[Lawrence St]

It would be much cheaper to extend the platforms at Lorimer Street to make them 600 feet long, and cover the rest of the distance with a passageway.

All the platforms along Jamaica and Myrtle need to be extended to 10 cars.

 

Although I never understood why a has never found it's way up 6th Avenue, even though there have been countless amount of delays at Chambers, Fulton, and Broad Sts before.

[MysteriousBtrain]

It would be much cheaper to extend the platforms at Lorimer Street to make them 600 feet long, and cover the rest of the distance with a passageway.

I think the cheapest to be is to reopen the Hewes St entrances at Hewes St, then rebuild the station house and build a passageway along New Montrose Avenue. And if needed, realign the to serve both the new passageway and the Broadway entrances and provide more convenient service. Edited May 30, 2017 by ShadeJay

[Wallyhorse]

I think the cheapest to be is to reopen the Hewes St entrances at Hewes St, then rebuild the station house and build a passageway along New Montrose Avenue. And if needed, realign the to serve both the new passageway and the Broadway entrances and provide more convenient service.

That definitely can work, especially as a cheaper option.  

[Eric B]

All the platforms along Jamaica and Myrtle need to be extended to 10 cars.

 

Although I never understood why a has never found it's way up 6th Avenue, even though there have been countless amount of delays at Chambers, Fulton, and Broad Sts before.

For one, here might be /O's not qualified for the Chrystie cut (if they haven't worked the since it opened), plus where would it go once up there? Wherever, would be much more out of the way than where it's supposed to go. It's not like shortlining an to Chambers.

The nearest they could turn it would be 57th, in front of the , which was done on weekend GO's with the , but again, that is an established, planned practice, and not likely something they would do on the fly with another line, and at possibly busier times.

[Wallyhorse]

For one, here might be /O's not qualified for the Chrystie cut (if they haven't worked the since it opened), plus where would it go once up there? Wherever, would be much more out of the way than where it's supposed to go. It's not like shortlining an to Chambers.

The nearest they could turn it would be 57th, in front of the , which was done on weekend GO's with the , but again, that is an established, planned practice, and not likely something they would do on the fly with another line, and at possibly busier times.

Makes sense, though if the had to go up 6th Avenue, in theory it could go to 96th and 2nd as the did on a recent GO and is expected to on weekends when the is shut down.

[Lawrence St]

Back up, what do you mean the is suppose to go up 6th Avenue during the shutdown?

[BreeddekalbL]

Back up, what do you mean the is suppose to go up 6th Avenue during the shutdown?

 

lmao don't jinx it cause he might be actually right in one of his many crazy proposals

[Wallyhorse]

lmao don't jinx it cause he might be actually right in one of his many crazy proposals

     

 

This one I won't touch.  Doing the via the SAS at a later time if a connection from the Willy B to the SAS can be done MIGHT be an option, but then you still need something to cover Essex to Broad Street, so likely no on that one. 

[Lawrence St]

     

 

This one I won't touch.  Doing the via the SAS at a later time if a connection from the Willy B to the SAS can be done MIGHT be an option, but then you still need something to cover Essex to Broad Street, so likely no on that one. 

Unless you run the full time and have that run to 2nd Avenue.

[LongLiveRock]

Except that, y'know, there's very little market for a 2nd Av - Williamsburg/Jamaica connection and anyone who wants that can transfer at Canal or, potentially, a Grand St - Bowery complex.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Back up, what do you mean the is suppose to go up 6th Avenue during the shutdown?

It isn't. But had they chosen to reroute the over the over 6th Avenue, then it would be the that gets rerouted to 2nd Ave when the is shut down.

 

Oddly enough, I remember someone on Subchat suggesting back in 2014 that Transit should have rerouted the busier to 6th Ave. But that probably would have been far too many trains using the Chrystie connection, so the was chosen.

[bobtehpanda]

Routing the would subject the J/Z skip-stop to 6th Av's reliability. The was the better choice.

[BreeddekalbL]

then what would have happened to   if you sent the up to 6th ave

[Lawrence St]

I said you could have the terminating at 96th Street at all times and have the operate normally during the shutdown, or vice versa.

[Wallyhorse]

I said you could have the terminating at 96th Street at all times and have the operate normally during the shutdown, or vice versa.

My plan for that was to split the into and for that purpose as noted ad nauseum (with as it is now 19/5, 24/7 to 96/2 as a supplement weekdays and the main line weekends). 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

then what would have happened to   if you sent the up to 6th ave

  

The would have most likely gone with the , unlike the QJ/KK skip-stop service they ran in the late 1960s, where the QJ ran downtown to Broad St and Coney Island while the KK traveled up 6th Avenue to 57th St, which was then a terminal station.

Routing the would subject the J/Z skip-stop to 6th Av's reliability. The was the better choice.

Agreed. The switching delays would have been ridiculous and might have made the service unpopular had they rerouted the to 6th Ave. And they would've had to run the 24/7, whereas by rerouting the , they were able to keep weekend/late night service the same.