11/8/16: An Unexpected Shift in Politics

[MHV9218]

It was only ever a decent country. 

[TDXNYC88]

It's gonna be weird coming into 2 Broadway tomorrow...

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

NYC was mostly Hillary country. It's the rural and exurban parts of the country that have to face the music.

[GojiMet86]

Looks like the Drumpf will win.

 

That is because of hate.

 

This is because of anger.

 

Either way you look at it:

This is what happens when you hate the system so much that you're willing to vote for the most clearly unqualified and unfit candidate in the history of this country. The vast majority of attacks against Clinton are a result of a deep, repressed desire to return the United States of America to an age where casual racism and sexism was fine or where the sight of a burka was nonexistent. The emails have been put forward as a false equivalence to Drumpf's problems. No one in his or her right mind would make such emails equal to a pedophilic desire, regardless of the legitimacy of those emails.

 

And that's without mentioning his disastrous financial problems. If people think Hillary is corrupt, wait until they get a load of Trump.

 

 

 

For those who voted for him, he's got you real conned. And you're too blind to see it.

[GojiMet86]

Donald Trump has become President-Elect.

 

He will be the 45th President of the United States.

 

The bar for presidency has never been set lower.

[Q43LTD]

Just absolutely disgusting.

[Lance]

Folks, if there is anyone to blame for the results of the election, it's Hillary herself. Once again, just like in the '08 primaries, she simply assumed she would get the necessary vote. The fact she not only lost states Obama held in 2008 and/or 2012, but traditionally blue states as well says a lot about her strategy. Throughout last night's election coverage, the one constant from all of the analysts is that she ignored states where Trump's message really resonated. It's especially true in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, where she had not made an appearance in months. It cannot be assumed that voter trends will hold simply because of prior results. It's apparent that Trump had the better ground game, not only stumping in states that were previously thought to be out of reach for Republicans, but swing enough counties in said states to change the overall vote for the state. When the Democrats look at these states again in 2020, they will have to play a bigger push for votes in these states instead of relying on trends.

 

And can we stop with the doom and gloom? He's not Hitler trying to round up the Jews, or this case the Mexicans. It will be telling how he transitions his campaign-style rhetoric catered to his base into policy that works for all Americans, but I don't believe we will be any worse than we currently are. Besides, more of the actual power to change things resides in the Congress, not the presidency.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Folks, if there is anyone to blame for the results of the election, it's Hillary herself. Once again, just like in the '08 primaries, she simply assumed she would get the necessary vote. The fact she not only lost states Obama held in 2008 and/or 2012, but traditionally blue states as well says a lot about her strategy. Throughout last night's election coverage, the one constant from all of the analysts is that she ignored states where Trump's message really resonated. It's especially true in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, where she had not made an appearance in months. It cannot be assumed that voter trends will hold simply because of prior results. It's apparent that Trump had the better ground game, not only stumping in states that were previously thought to be out of reach for Republicans, but swing enough counties in said states to change the overall vote for the state. When the Democrats look at these states again in 2020, they will have to play a bigger push for votes in these states instead of relying on trends.

And can we stop with the doom and gloom? He's not Hitler trying to round up the Jews, or this case the Mexicans. It will be telling how he transitions his campaign-style rhetoric catered to his base into policy that works for all Americans, but I don't believe we will be any worse than we currently are. Besides, more of the actual power to change things resides in the Congress, not the presidency.

Hillary lost because she did not resonate with voters and she represented the politician that people are sick of hearing. The facts are that people care about their pockets, and our economic growth has been anemic at best. Obamacare while claiming to provide coverage and lower costs has done the opposite, and that also resonated with Americans, especially in areas where MILLIONS of jobs have been lost. I honestly thought Clinton would eek it out, but the fact that she couldn't hold on shows how many people are angry and want real change. I am hopeful that Trump can get Congress to finally work for the American people and increase wages and hold American companies accountable that have been destroying communities across the land, looking for cheap labor.

 

It was Hillary that supported horrible trade deals like NAFTA and I am glad that people woke up and saw what a hypocrite she is. Make no mistake... I voted for several Democrats yesterday but not her.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Around the Horn]

Actually Hillary DID resonate with voters. She won the popular vote. She just didn't resonate with the voters she needed to win the electoral college.

 

Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered.

[R10 2952]

I was a Sanders supporter, so for me the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the Hillary crowd.  If those cocksnots really wanted to beat that fascist egomaniac Trump, then they would have given the nomination to Sanders.  Fvck the DNC in its entirety; now I'm going to have to live every day in fear of nuclear war triggered by a toupee-wearing asshat.

[Kamen Rider]

The problem Clinton had was simple; to many, she was the face of everything wrong with the government.

 

This wasn't about Gender, Trump won Republican women.

 

This wasn't about race, there were lots of people of color at Trump HQ, meanwhile, every time they showed the Javits Center it was all young, attractive white people, and that's not just my observation.

 

This was a vote against the Washington status quo.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The problem Clinton had was simple; to many, she was the face of everything wrong with the government.

 

This wasn't about Gender, Trump won Republican women.

 

This wasn't about race, there were lots of people of color at Trump HQ, meanwhile, every time they showed the Javits Center it was all young, attractive white people, and that's not just my observation.

 

This was a vote against the Washington status quo.

That's the other thing.... People keep yelling that Trump supporters are racist. News flash... He doesn't win several states without minority voters and those people certainly are not racist. Hillary lost because she simply didn't artciulate herself with a message that resonates with peoples' pockets. Obama's job creation is what many care about, and it isn't as rosy as the media painted it. Low unemployment doesn't equate high wages and doesn't tell you how many people stopped looking for work. Edited November 9, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GojiMet86]

Of course his supporters are racist. How the hell can you deny that? I don't f**king understand. There are loads and loads of videos of his people saying the most racist crap.

 

I saw his speech this morning. I saw only one group of black people, and they were strategically placed in front of the camera. The rest of the room was filled with white people.

 

And Kamen, you're clearly wrong. The vast majority of minorities voted for Clinton. Who you gonna point out in his HQ? Amarosa? How many more minorities can you name after that? I saw Hillary's speech as well. Much more minorities there. All I have to post screenshots.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually Hillary DID resonate with voters. She won the popular vote. She just didn't resonate with the voters she needed to win the electoral college.

Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered.

Oh please with the racism card. This election was more about the economy. The illegal immigration issue is also economic. You're in college, but I've been in the white collar world for a while, and it is becoming harder to do business in just about every sector. You have to compete with the low wage crap from third world countries. It's the race to the bottom economy that people are sick of. You'll understand more when you start working and supporting yourself fully why people are angry. The idea of low wage jobs now being the standard for some Americans (jobs that were NEVER meant to exist to support entire families) is a disgrace to our country. We've had Bush and Obama both continue with the status quo that has only made life more difficult for the average American and that's what people are angry about. Obama at one point promised to get tough on China and then that all vanished, and so now we continue to have one of the largest trade imbalances with China in history. China continues to become wealthy off of the backs of Americans. That's not okay, nor is the meager economic growth that the media has painted as a success. Edited November 9, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Juelz4309]

When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Edited November 9, 2016 by Juelz4309

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Of course his supporters are racist. How the hell can you deny that? I don't f**king understand. There are loads and loads of videos of his people saying the most racist crap.

I saw his speech this morning. I saw only one group of black people, and they were strategically placed in front of the camera. The rest of the room was filled with white people.

And Kamen, you're clearly wrong. The vast majority of minorities voted for Clinton. Who you gonna point out in his HQ? Amarosa? How many more minorities can you name after that? I saw Hillary's speech as well. Much more minorities there. All I have to post screenshots.

Even so, the fact still remains that minorities got him into office and it isn't because of anything else BUT the crappy economy and that horror called Obamacare. You're from a well off family (you admitted as much) so you can focus on the inequalities. Other Americans aren't so lucky.

[GojiMet86]

What, you think I live a house with my parents making $100,000 or more? I have seen the effects of low wages myself. My first job was at a Keyfood at a part time position. I started out with $8.00, which then became $8.25 after three weeks. After SIX months it became $9.00. I made between $150-200 a week. Not enough for the $1000 a month apartment I live in. Or I would have needed to work one or two more part times pay. Fortunately my mom was paying it, not me. Even then, she had an income less than $30,000. I say well off because we don't waste money on useless shit, and we live comfortably.

 

On the other hand, you voted for a man who has pulled off pyramid schemes and ripped off investors and working class people financially. And did so directly. You voted in a man who has put his businesses and casinos in bankruptcy multiple times, and mind you these aren't small entreperneur ventures or mom-and-pop shops. He has refused to pay contractors on multiple occassions. He became rich only because daddy dearest was one of the richest people in the city. He has said various times that he would lower taxes for the rich. You know, the coporate elite.

 

And you voted him because economics?

 

Come back with a better explanation, because I can't figure out how someone who has championed himself as preferring to live in wealthy Riverdale to keep away from the working class poor is all of a sudden in favor of helping them. I really can't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What, you think I live a house with my parents making $100,000 or more? I have seen the effects of low wages myself. My first job was at a Keyfood at a part time position. I started out with $8.00, which then became $8.25 after three weeks. After SIX months it became $9.00. I made between $150-200 a week. Not enough for the $1000 a month apartment I live in. Or I would have needed to work one or two more part times pay. Fortunately my mom was paying it, not me. Even then, she had an income less than $30,000. I say well off because we don't waste money on useless shit, and we live comfortably.

On the other hand, you voted for a man who has pulled off pyramid schemes and ripped off investors and working class people financially. And did so directly. You voted in a man who has put his businesses and casinos in bankruptcy multiple times, and mind you these aren't small entreperneur ventures or mom-and-pop shops. He has refused to pay contractors on multiple occassions. He became rich only because daddy dearest was one of the richest people in the city. He has said various times that he would lower taxes for the rich. You know, the coporate elite.

And you voted him because economics?

Come back with a better explanation, because I can't figure out how someone who has championed himself as preferring to live in wealthy Riverdale to keep away from the working class poor is all of a sudden in favor of helping them. I really can't.

Listen I run a business and Trump will help me and my bottom line. Less regulations and repealing Obamacare means less costs for businesses so that we can flourish. The company I work for is full of Democrats, and even they are angry about how their premiums have skyrocketed under Obama, so let's not pretend that Democrats really give a damn about the average American. Obama said premiums would go down. Instead they continue to skyrocket. Businesses can't flourish and pay more for folks like yourself because of things like Obamacare. Can you admit that the Democrats lost this election because they lost touch with the people? For the record, I've probably voted for more Democrats than Republicans, including yesterday. I happy voted for SEVERAL Democrats... Chuck Schumer and Jeff Klein. I just can't vote for crooks like Hillary.

 

Yes, Trump is a gamble and certainly not a saint, but Hillary is more of the same. She is a career politician and Trump is not, so the American people are willing to give him a chance. He will certainly shake things up, make no mistake about it.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GojiMet86]

I have met people like Trump, who see the common man as nothing more than a source of profit, especially when they struggle with finances. Do you really think he's in it for the little guy? You said it yourself. He'll help you with your bottom line, as a business owner. But he won't help those who struggle to put food on their plate or those who have to work part-time jobs to do so.

 

Yes, Trump is a gamble and certainly not a saint, but Hillary is more of the same.

 

 

 

He's not a gamble. He's a proven shill and con man.

[Kamen Rider]

How am I clearly wrong if this is what the network TV cameras were showing?

 

How am I clearly wrong if that's what the news said as it became clearer he'd win and that a large number of women had voted Trump?

 

This Holier than Thou adittude is one factor that helped drive people away from her camp.

[Around the Horn]

Oh please with the racism card. This election was more about the economy. The illegal immigration issue is also economic. You're in college, but I've been in the white collar world for a while, and it is becoming harder to do business in just about every sector. You have to compete with the low wage crap from third world countries. It's the race to the bottom economy that people are sick of. You'll understand more when you start working and supporting yourself fully why people are angry. The idea of low wage jobs now being the standard for some Americans (jobs that were NEVER meant to exist to support entire families) is a disgrace to our country. We've had Bush and Obama both continue with the status quo that has only made life more difficult for the average American and that's what people are angry about. Obama at one point promised to get tough on China and then that all vanished, and so now we continue to have one of the largest trade imbalances with China in history. China continues to become wealthy off of the backs of Americans. That's not okay, nor is the meager economic growth that the media has painted as a success.

 

LOL I'm not playing a racism card. Trump has had rallies for what, 12 months now, where his supporters spout racist, Islamophobic and  Anti-Semetic hate speech. I have grown up in arguably, one of the most diverse school districts in the city, where I have seen that regardless of race, you work hard in school and you will succeed no matter what. All of us view each other on equal footing, because we have seen that for all of our differences we are all the same. We thought that surely adults, in all their wisdom, could see this, but no they decided to act like petulant children and suck their thumbs, while voting for Trump to go get "what they deserve back". Now that this demagogue has been elected president, it doesn't matter. The normalization of suspicion of Muslims, Arabs and other brown people, by this election result, is enough for a lunatic to potentially view getting rid of them as a patriotic duty. It can happen at any time and at any place. I can tell that Bay Ridge is on edge already, and they are afraid and scared.

 

To tell me that I am playing a race card reeks of the highest privilege known to man, white privilege and it tells me that you are willing to disregard whole swathes of the population as potential collateral damage to get the economic results you want (and no Republican administration since 1900 has increased the number of good paying jobs, increased the wages of workers or closed the wealth gap. If anything, they have been proven over time to make the number of jobs lower, decrease wages and increase the wealth gap that you feel is such an important issue to you).

Edited November 9, 2016 by Around the Horn

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL I'm not playing a racism card. Trump has had rallies for what, 12 months now, where his supporters spout racist, Islamophobic and Anti-Semetic hate speech. I have grown up in arguably, one of the most diverse school districts in the city, where I have seen that regardless of race, you work hard in school and you will succeed no matter what. All of us view each other on equal footing, because we have seen that for all of our differences we are all the same. We thought that surely adults, in all their wisdom, could see this, but no they decided to act like petulant children and suck their thumbs, while voting for Trump to go get "what they deserve back". Now that this demagogue has been elected president, it doesn't matter. The normalization of suspicion of Muslims, Arabs and other brown people, by this election result, is enough for a lunatic to potentially view getting rid of them as a patriotic duty. It can happen at any time and at any place. I can tell that Bay Ridge is on edge already, and they are afraid and scared.

 

To tell me that I am playing a race card reeks of the highest privilege known to man, white privilege and it tells me that you are willing to disregard whole swathes of the population as potential collateral damage to get the economic results you want (and no Republican administration since 1900 has increased the number of good paying jobs, increased the wages of workers or closed the wealth gap. If anything, they have been proven over time to make the number of jobs lower, decrease wages and increase the wealth gap that you feel is such an important issue to you).

Let me clarify something. I didn't vote for Bush nor Obama because I am an Independent. I've probably voted for more third party candidates than anybody else, so I am not this Republican that you're trying to make me out to be. I liked Trump from the beginning when Republicans hated him because of his economic plan, which is America First. Aside from that people have nothing to fear if they're here legally. I've lived in other countries and always entered LEGALLY. How about other people coming here illegally show some respect for our laws and not make a mockery of our system? I don't know about you, but I don't recall there being suspicion about Arabs until they started attacking innocent Americans here on our soil, so the Arab community is the one that should be working to make amends and show themselves as being Americans as opposed to coming here to drain our system, attack us and laugh in our faces. What gets me about them is when there's a radical that is outed they always seemed perplexed by the idea. No no no... That isn't my son or brother. Yes yes yes it is. Living in denial about the dangers that face our country has gotten us nowhere. No, not all Arabs are terrorists, but they do exist, and you playing the politically correct card as if they don't exist is why a candidate like Hillary was defeated. She's too busy living in lala land to admit that we have serious economic and security issues that need STRONG solutions. That's what Americans voted for last night... Real change.... Edited November 9, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Doubt it, unless Trump ends up doing some retarded crap. Although if relations with Russia, that's great I guess, but the bigger problem is the conflicts that may occur in other countries (such as Cuba, China, Mexico, and potentially other South American countries). There's nothing we can do at this point, but pray that nothing goes seriously wrong. 

Let me clarify something. I didn't vote for Bush nor Obama because I am an Independent. I've probably voted for more third party candidates than anybody else, so I am not this Republican that you're trying to make me out to be. I liked Trump from the beginning when Republicans hated him because of his economic plan, which is America First. Aside from that people have nothing to fear if they're here legally. I've lived in other countries and always entered LEGALLY. How about other people coming here illegally show some respect for our laws and not make a mockery of our system? I don't know about you, but I don't recall there being suspicion about Arabs until they started attacking innocent Americans here on our soil, so the Arab community is the one that should be working to make amends and show themselves as being Americans as opposed to coming here to drain our system, attack us and laugh in our faces. What gets me about them is when there's a radical that is outed they always seemed perplexed by the idea. No no no... That isn't my son or brother. Yes yes yes it is. Living in denial about the dangers that face our country has gotten us nowhere. No, not all Arabs are terrorists, but they do exist, and you playing the politically correct card as if they don't exist is why a candidate like Hillary was defeated. She's too busy living in lala land to admit that we have serious economic and security issues that need STRONG solutions. That's what Americans voted for last night... Real change....

I mean, Hillary DID win the popular vote, so if it was counted based on popular vote, she would have won. Trump managed to get the electoral votes (which are more important, although not entirely representative of the popular vote), so that's not entirely true (both candidates were pretty close in number of votes too). 

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In other words, most of you are probably aware of this: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/calexit-californians-exit-trump-win-article-1.2866382?lkj&utm_content=buffer40cc6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

They can be disappointed with the results, but that is not helping matters at all, IMO (and that would be pretty bad for our country if that were to actually happen). It may be unlikely for that to happen, but still.

Edited November 9, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[RailRunRob]

The people have spoken have to respect it.  Do I believe Trump can deliver honestly no! This had to happen to many people got cocky millennial's and their entitlement they celebrated before it was over.  Sometimes you have to feel it. Hope everyone is paying attention. 1455 days to go..

[Lance]

I really don't like delving into political posts. However, I feel that I must address some of the key points brought out in the past few pages. 

 

Donald Trump is a horrible person; there is no doubt about that. This really shouldn't be breaking news. With his seeming lack of regard for anyone not of his core base, it should be of no surprise that his approval ratings were so abysmal during the primaries and through the general election process. While some will attempt to whitewash his campaign rhetoric as just that, rhetoric, a lot of his actions and comments have left a sour taste in many a mouth. He is on the record saying a lot of racist, sexist and xenophobic crap. These aren't simply rumors; in fact, a lot of what he's said is clearly posted on his official Twitter account. On the flip-side, Hillary's numbers were just as bad going into this election, and her perceived apathy towards the issues facing many Americans combined with her enormous baggage did not help matters in the slightest. That's why so many people were voting against one candidate instead of for one, which in my opinion, is really quite sad, though it is telling of how bad this election actually was.

 

However, while way too many of his supporters spouted the same nonsense and then some, mostly without any kind of reprimand, much to the disgust of many, many Americans, to paint all of his supporters with such broad strokes is ignorant. A lot of people are simply frustrated with Washington's blatant ignorance of their plight. They face the same problems we do here in New York - a general lack of good jobs and the ever-rising costs of, well, everything. While I don't know what they expect to get with the same people in Congress, they were willing to gamble with a Trump presidency, focusing on his message rather than his rhetoric, as opposed to a Clinton one, which was seen by many as a continuation of the Obama administration and the cause of their problems. 

 

On the subject of voter turnout, the simple fact is that less people turned out for Clinton than the campaign expected. As I mentioned in my last post here, states and even certain pivotal counties in said states that went for Obama soundly in '08/'12 only showed tepid support for Clinton last night. Breaking it down, Clinton got 88% of the black vote as opposed to the 93% Obama received in 2012. For Latinos, it's more of the same with Hillary taking six percent less of the vote than Obama did against Romney. It did not help that Trump actually did slightly better than Romney in terms of Latino turnout. In regards to the young vote, while Trump would see similar returns to Romney's turnout, votes in that faction were also down with these voters either choosing third-party candidates or simply abstaining from voting at all. Finally, the women's vote, which was supposed to be the linchpin for her, did not materialize in the way she expected. There were no massive shifts in women voting for Hillary or against Trump. On that front, the numbers are practically the same in comparison to both 2008 and 2012. For all her talk of securing these crucial blocks, she obviously did not have this in the bag as she assumed.

 

I understand that many, many people today are upset and angry at the results of this election and are wondering how we proceed beyond it. Believe me, I know that feeling; it's like a certain numbness has befallen over most democrats today. With that said, I feel that we must follow the example set by President Obama and Mrs. Clinton this morning. We must accept the results as they are and work with a Trump presidency. Yes, there are serious questions about his policies, like what will replace the ACA law and his stance on trade, which are issues we should all be invested in. I know quite a few of you would get a perverse satisfaction out of seeing Trump's presidency crash and burn in a spectacular fashion. I'm one of those people, kind of, but such catastrophes like that do little to actually benefit anyone in the long run. Nobody gains anything from exorbitantly high-cost imports or from high health insurance premiums or a return to insurance companies being able to deny coverage based on preexisting conditions. No. I have faith that Trump will surround himself with people who know how to make these campaign promises come to light without crashing the economy as many expect. Perhaps he will stun us naysayers and actually be a good domestic president.

 

In closing, right now, this country is divided. Even here on this forum, we are divided by the outcome of this contentious election. However, I believe there are a few things we can all agree on: 1) First and foremost, this election is finally over. With how bad this got towards the end, I feel we must strive to never have an election get this ugly or just plain disgusting ever again. The message the candidates are trying to convey gets lost in this kind of garbage. 2) Before we jump into who's going to run in 2020, can we just take a break from the political discord? We don't need election cycles to run one after another, do we? I think we can all afford to take a collective breath and sigh of relief for a while and just see how this one is going. And finally, 3) can we please never let Hillary Clinton run for any public office ever again? I mean, seriously? How do you screw up that bad? I was not a Bernie Sanders supporter, but even I knew she needed to throw his supporters a bone. To pick a running mate on his affability and because he speaks Spanish and ignore his impact in the primaries explains why her expected turnout didn't materialize. We don't need her perpetually running for office every cycle like Romney, right?

 

This will be my last post in this thread. Do try to keep it civil, both here in the forum and through your everyday lives.

 

Sources:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/clinton-votes-african-americans-latinos-women-white-voters/index.html