Constant confusion between (R) and (W) trains at 59 St (BKYN)

[Mtatransit]

Just say W to Coney Island, and make the crew announce at 86 St saying its the last stop... May cause anger but its one stop there will be less people affected. 

[Lawrence St]

Or rename 86th Street on Sea Beach as "GRAVESEND" only and have 86th Street on Fourth Avenue be renamed "BAY RIDGE-86 ST".

[HenryB]

All the rush hour programs on any NTT (i.e to Crown Heights, to 86) don't say "via _____". They really should tho.

 

 

Some of them do, examples: to/from SAS: "...96st-2av bound train, via the line." "....Coney Island bound train, via the Second Avenue Line." 

Unfortunately this is not the case for to 86st.

[TheR32TransitRailfan]

Send them to Coney Island lol

 

 

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[46Dover]

Or if all else fails, just hop the B1 back to Bay Ridge. Longer I know, but at least you'd get to your intended spot

[Jemorie]

Some of them do, examples: to/from SAS: "...96st-2av bound train, via the line." "....Coney Island bound train, via the Second Avenue Line." 

Unfortunately this is not the case for to 86st.

 

No they don't. Not anymore.

[Interested Rider]

Pardon me as my senility has started to kick in when I wrote as i remember when I had a conductor on the N from Queens Plaza (this was over 30+ years ago) announce on the same train that the N became an F (there was a problem in the 60th Street Tunnel), then became a D (42nd Street) and became an N (near West 4th Street). What i asked him at Queens Plaza was "are you going to stop at DeKalb Avenue?" He did not answer my question and since I knew the answer, I rode the train anyway. Today, if the same thing happened, my impression is that Labor Relations would be trying to fire him pronto as he violated the rules in every which way, shape or form. 

Then my response goes back to the historical and that is just go back to " W to Kings Highway" and forget the Gravesend- 86th Street " as then there is no confusion. It worked for almost a century and when the repair work on the Sea Beach Stations is completed, maybe the fourth track that had been taken out of service would be restored from Kings Highway to just beyond 86th Street for W and N lay ups.

[HenryB]

No they don't. Not anymore.

 

 

ummmm.....

 

2:05 "This is the Coney Island bound  train, via the Second Avenue Line." 

[Around the Horn]

Pardon me as my senility has started to kick in when I wrote as i remember when I had a conductor on the N from Queens Plaza (this was over 30+ years ago) announce on the same train that the N became an F (there was a problem in the 60th Street Tunnel), then became a D (42nd Street) and became an N (near West 4th Street). What i asked him at Queens Plaza was "are you going to stop at DeKalb Avenue?" He did not answer my question and since I knew the answer, I rode the train anyway. Today, if the same thing happened, my impression is that Labor Relations would be trying to fire him pronto as he violated the rules in every which way, shape or form. 

Then my response goes back to the historical and that is just go back to " W to Kings Highway" and forget the Gravesend- 86th Street " as then there is no confusion. It worked for almost a century and when the repair work on the Sea Beach Stations is completed, maybe the fourth track that had been taken out of service would be restored from Kings Highway to just beyond 86th Street for W and N lay ups.

 

The fourth track is already active between Kings Highway and 86 Street

[Interested Rider]

Since the 4th track is active,this proves my point that by having "W to Kings Highway"  everyone will be satisfied as now there there is no more "86th Street signage to confuse the riders. The trains go out of service at Kings Highway and go on to the middle track where they wait until they can enter the yard. The problem is resolved if anyone at the MTA wants to correct it.

I have a question concerning the station work on the Sea Beach Line as to when will they start work on the southbound side now that service has been restored on the northbound side?

[Mtatransit]

The problem is that even if you say GRAVESEND or 86 St N, people still won't pay attention. That's why Kings Hwy or Coney Island works best. Might as well put VIA N Line too...

[Lance]

The problem with this whole thing is a complete lack of signage for the limited runs of the . Of course, adding information to the service change for these limited runs will only add to the confusion, with people expecting more trains than what actually runs. What needs to be done is to restore the ability to distinguish the final terminal of the line. "This is an 86 Street-bound local train" is not sufficient in the slightest, not with two stations in completely different areas served by trains and extended trains that act like extra trains along 4th Avenue. Bring back the Gravesend designation or change the signs to "86 ST-SEA BEACH" and "86 ST-4 AV" as required and add the "via the local line" portion to better communicate the service.

[Porter]

Hold the phone. When do trains go to Brooklyn? I wanna ride on one!

[Deucey]

Hold the phone. When do trains go to Brooklyn? I wanna ride on one!

Roughly after 9pm.

[Interested Rider]

My point remains as to why confuse the riders in the first place? When the N was not allowed to run to Coney Island, there was a need for a separate 86th Street sign. Now by posting  "W to Kings Highway" , it is quite clear and self explanatory to the riders that the train is not going to 86th Street-4th Avenue. Maybe I am naive but  whenever a train pulled in on the southbound  local track at 59th Street, I always looked at the front and the side as well as listened for the announcement as to where the train was going. The riders have a point here as there is confusion and the way to eliminate it is to go back in history and just change the sign to "W to Kings Highway". If the riders are still confused, it is their problem. 

A correction as to the R going to 86th Street as the cobwebs in my brain spit out that there was a time (I think for a couple of weeks) where the R terminated at 86th Street and there was a shuttle to 95th Street. I do not remember the month or the year.

[danielhg121]

Guys, I think there is something we overlooked with to Kings Highway, there are 2 other stops with those names, the would be highly unlikely but the could be a possibility as Broadway riders and DeKalb avenue could get sucked into the trap. Is there anything wrong with this contradiction?

 

 

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[Lawrence St]

So then the only choice is to rename 86th Street on both lines.

[HenryB]

i don't know why we need to do all these just for a few in rush hours.....

add "...via the line" in the announcement is sufficient enough IMO

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

You guys are not thinking from a passengers point of view. We all know how the system works and where these trains go and what they do. Think like a passenger, you've been riding the R train all your life. At 59th street, you know the local track goes to Bay Ridge, the express runs down the N line. Now, you have a "W" train running along the R line all the way from Whitehall street, with a destination to 86st. Everyone who doesn't know what via Sea Beach means (since it has no relevance to anywhere along the N line), would think "oh this train is running on the R to 86st let's take it". Makes sense right? And it's on the local track at 59st street where ALL trains (except these few W trains) continue to Bay Ridge. Most riders dont know that there are switches after 59st, and assume the tracks go straight since that's what all the trains do.

 

Now, I know the announcements at 59st say the next stop is 8th Ave, but it's 2017 (everyone listens to music now commuting). So people don't really listen to announcements(which are pretty much the same unless the conductor comes on and says something). Anyways, to avoid confusion, the most logical thing to do, would just have those W trains signed up as "N local trains" to "Gravesend-86st" from wherever they start. In Manhattan, they'll be on the local track, and people know the difference between local and express based on the station layout. No one thinks a train will switch between local and express; so if it's on the local, it will stay on the local (in that borough) is commuter logic.

 

So in Queens, that "W" train becomes an "N" train at the start, runs local in Manhattan (this was just a normal thing not too long ago), runs VIA Whitehall, runs LOCAL along 4th Ave, and then to Gravesend-86st. They really need to update that sign back to saying Gravesend-86st. Then, at 59st (Brooklyn), people will see "N" and will not get on the train (if they do, then that's their fault, with no argument since it clearly says N).

 

This should solve the problem.

 

 

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[HenryB]

You guys are not thinking from a passengers point of view. We all know how the system works and where these trains go and what they do. Think like a passenger, you've been riding the R train all your life. At 59th street, you know the local track goes to Bay Ridge, the express runs down the N line. Now, you have a "W" train running along the R line all the way from Whitehall street, with a destination to 86st. Everyone who doesn't know what via Sea Beach means (since it has no relevance to anywhere along the N line), would think "oh this train is running on the R to 86st let's take it". Makes sense right? And it's on the local track at 59st street where ALL trains (except these few W trains) continue to Bay Ridge. Most riders dont know that there are switches after 59st, and assume the tracks go straight since that's what all the trains do.

 

Now, I know the announcements at 59st say the next stop is 8th Ave, but it's 2017 (everyone listens to music now commuting). So people don't really listen to announcements(which are pretty much the same unless the conductor comes on and says something). Anyways, to avoid confusion, the most logical thing to do, would just have those W trains signed up as "N local trains" to "Gravesend-86st" from wherever they start. In Manhattan, they'll be on the local track, and people know the difference between local and express based on the station layout. No one thinks a train will switch between local and express; so if it's on the local, it will stay on the local (in that borough) is commuter logic.

 

So in Queens, that "W" train becomes an "N" train at the start, runs local in Manhattan (this was just a normal thing not too long ago), runs VIA Whitehall, runs LOCAL along 4th Ave, and then to Gravesend-86st. They really need to update that sign back to saying Gravesend-86st. Then, at 59st (Brooklyn), people will see "N" and will not get on the train (if they do, then that's their fault, with no argument since it clearly says N).

 

This should solve the problem.

 

 

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then you started to confuse riders....since they are expecting express services all the way to 8ave midday during weekdays

[Lawrence St]

When the starts terminating at Bay Parkway when the rehabilitation starts up again on Sea Beach, do you think that could fix the issue?

 

Or just sign them up as trains to Coney Island and announce the last stop as 86th.

[biGC323232]

When the starts terminating at Bay Parkway when the rehabilitation starts up again on Sea Beach, do you think that could fix the issue?

 

Or just sign them up as trains to Coney Island and announce the last stop as 86th.

Thats what i would do...Just send them few trains to coney isiand discharge and back to the yard

[Lance]

then you started to confuse riders....since they are expecting express services all the way to 8ave midday during weekdays

Agreed. That's even worse than changing the signs mid-route. The runs local in Manhattan during off-hours and via Whitehall St late nights according to the schedules and service descriptions.

 

We cannot solve every service-related problem by re-designating the trains as it's presently done for the trains that run to 96 Street. As mentioned previously, bringing back the Gravesend designation on the trains' side signs and as the destination when the countdown clocks come online will likely solve this problem quite nicely. Remember, it's not as though these extended runs are that new.

[Tonyboy515]

Or just sign them up as trains to Coney Island and announce the last stop as 86th.

Ehh... Watch Brighton riders take the at DeKalb... Everyone “knows” that only the goes to Coney Island... so they’ll take the to go to the Brighton line.

 

 

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