Constant confusion between (R) and (W) trains at 59 St (BKYN)

[Lawrence St]

For the last 9 times I have caught one of the to 86th Street trips, people have been confused out of their minds.

 

Just yesterday, the conductor on an 86 St Bound at 59 St failed to announce that the train was operating to GRAVESEND-86 St, not 86 St on 4th Avenue. The signs did not help either as they all just said "86 ST" and 95% of people don't know what "VIA SEA BEACH." means.

 

Anyway, all the people got on that thinking it was an , only to go into a panic because the train wasn't going to the 86th Street they wanted to go to. This resulted in people hoarding the conductor at 8th Avenue, demanding how to get to 86th Street. People didn't know what the difference between 86th St-4th Ave and 86th St-Gravesend were.

 

This is not the only time this has happened, it's been happening more and will continue to increase since it's now the summer season and tourists are coming, so how do we fix this problem?

[Around the Horn]

For the last 9 times I have caught one of the to 86th Street trips, people have been confused out of their minds.

 

Just yesterday, the conductor on an 86 St Bound at 59 St failed to announce that the train was operating to GRAVESEND-86 St, not 86 St on 4th Avenue. The signs did not help either as they all just said "86 ST" and 95% of people don't know what "VIA SEA BEACH." means.

 

Anyway, all the people got on that thinking it was an , only to go into a panic because the train wasn't going to the 86th Street they wanted to go to. This resulted in people hoarding the conductor at 8th Avenue, demanding how to get to 86th Street. People didn't know what the difference between 86th St-4th Ave and 86th St-Gravesend were.

 

This is not the only time this has happened, it's been happening more and will continue to increase since it's now the summer season and tourists are coming, so how do we fix this problem?

Here's an idea: don't fix what's not broken. The program was perfectly fine when it said "GRAVESEND-86 ST" and announced it as such. Then they had the brilliant idea to change the announcements to just "86 Street-bound" and then the sign to "86 ST"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why have them terminate in Gravesend anyway? There's like 5 trains at times for every train. Bay Ridge would be better off with the service.

[Around the Horn]

Why have them terminate in Gravesend anyway? There's like 5 trains at times for every train. Bay Ridge would be better off with the service.

They go to Coney Island Yard from there.

[East New York]

Why have them terminate in Gravesend anyway? There's like 5 trains at times for every train. Bay Ridge would be better off with the service.

Since all those trains are going back to Coney Island Yard MTA figured there was no point in running them back to Brooklyn empty.

[Lawrence St]

Here's an idea: don't fix what's not broken. The program was perfectly fine when it said "GRAVESEND-86 ST" and announced it as such. Then they had the brilliant idea to change the announcements to just "86 Street-bound" and then the sign to "86 ST"

Exactly! At least have Charlie Pellet record an announcement that says "Ladies and Gentlemen, this train is operating to Gravesend-86 St on the line via Sea Beach. This train does not stop at the 86 Station on the . For service to 77th Street, 86th Street, and Bay Ridge-95 St, get off this train and wait for the next available train."

[Fresh Pond]

...or if you're not really sure, don't get on the train

[HenryB]

Exactly! At least have Charlie Pellet record an announcement that says "Ladies and Gentlemen, this train is operating to Gravesend-86 St on the line via Sea Beach. This train does not stop at the 86 Station on the . For service to 77th Street, 86th Street, and Bay Ridge-95 St, get off this train and wait for the next available train."

 

 

IMO this is overkill. Having "This is Gravesend-86 St bound local train, via the line." since 36st is sufficient.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Exactly! At least have Charlie Pellet record an announcement that says "Ladies and Gentlemen, this train is operating to Gravesend-86 St on the line via Sea Beach. This train does not stop at the 86 Station on the . For service to 77th Street, 86th Street, and Bay Ridge-95 St, get off this train and wait for the next available train."

 

With an announcement like that, people who want the will hear only the and ignore everything else.

 

Maybe the trains to the yard should be signed as instead.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

With an announcement like that, people who want the will hear only the and ignore everything else.

 

Maybe the trains to the yard should be signed as instead.

That would create more confusion since the doesn't usually run via Whitehall.

[B46 via Utica]

Don't send any (W)s down to Brooklyn.

 

 

Problem solved.

[HenryB]

Don't send any (W)s down to Brooklyn.

 

 

Problem solved.

 

 

Many poor s couldn't go home (CI Yard) if you don't send them to Brooklyn 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

That would create more confusion since the doesn't usually run via Whitehall.

 

Then maybe the " to 86th" sign code should be scrapped.

 

The train can say " to Whitehall" from Ditmars to Whitehall (in other words, be signed as a normal  train), then change to " to 86th" for the rest of the trip. This way, passengers north of Canal Street wouldn't be confused, while passengers in Brooklyn would figure that it's just a rerouted  (which probably happens from time to time).

 

Or maybe just run them as trains the whole way.

[Lawrence St]

Or, starting at 36th Street, they can change the announcements to say "This is a Gravesend-86th Street bound, train, via the line."

[Daniel The Cool]

That would create more confusion since the doesn't usually run via Whitehall.

The runs via Whitehall during the overnights though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The runs via Whitehall during the overnights though.

Yeah I know, hence my response. The historically has ended at Whitehall, and since only a handful go to Brooklyn, you'll continue to have some people confused regardless of what signage is used.

[B35 via Church]

...or if you're not really sure, don't get on the train

Foreign concept, fam.....

 

People want to get on what's moving; even if it's a service they're unsure of just where the hell it's going.... Must be a NYC thing.... It's yet another reason I don't take the subway near as much as I used to... I've gotten pretty sick & tired of being asked for directions, I give them the directions and modes to take, and then wanna cop attitudes when the answer I give isn't what they want to hear....

[Deucey]

Or, starting at 36th Street, they can change the announcements to say "This is a Gravesend-86th Street bound, train, via the line."

Don't they do similar announcements when a NTT is rerouted? IIRC, they do that exact thing when runs on Broadway.

[Lawrence St]

Don't they do similar announcements when a NTT is rerouted? IIRC, they do that exact thing when runs on Broadway.

 

All the rush hour programs on any NTT (i.e to Crown Heights, to 86) don't say "via _____". They really should tho.

[Jemorie]

All the rush hour programs on any NTT (i.e to Crown Heights, to 86) don't say "via _____". They really should tho.

 

Why? It's not really a big deal.

[Deucey]

All the rush hour programs on any NTT (i.e to Crown Heights, to 86) don't say "via _____". They really should tho.

I distinctly remember being at 149th St and another time at 14th St/7th Av hearing the automated announcement saying "This is a train to Flatbush on the 7th Av Express".

[Interested Rider]

Once again, another genius with no knowledge of the history of the BMT Lines came up with something that proves to me why this genius should thank his/her lucky stars that they have a job. When our great BMT leaders wanted to make sure that there would be no confusion between 86th Street Bay Ridge and 86th Street Gravesend, they did not place either 86th Street signs on the roller and instead used "Kings Highway" and "95th Street" and thus everyone knew where the train was going.. This worked for about 90 years and there was never any problem with anyone being  confused about where the train was going and on what line whether the sign said Sea Beach Exp, Broadway Express, N, R,,Broadway Local, Fourth Avenue Local  or anything else.For the record, the only time that the Fourth Avenue Local terminated at 86th Street for an extended period of time was from 1916 to 1925 when the 95th Street Station was completed.

We used to have a saying in government "Keep it simple, stupid" but that seems to have been changed to "Keep it Complicated,Krazy" which I think has become the norm today.  My opinion is just have the train crew change the signs at City Hall to N to Gravesend 86th Street" or better yet go back to "N to Kings Highway" which everyone will understand.

[MetroTransitTee]

Maybe just extend it one stop down to Coney Island

[Around the Horn]

Once again, another genius with no knowledge of the history of the BMT Lines came up with something that proves to me why this genius should thank his/her lucky stars that they have a job. When our great BMT leaders wanted to make sure that there would be no confusion between 86th Street Bay Ridge and 86th Street Gravesend, they did not place either 86th Street signs on the roller and instead used "Kings Highway" and "95th Street" and thus everyone knew where the train was going.. This worked for about 90 years and there was never any problem with anyone being  confused about where the train was going and on what line whether the sign said Sea Beach Exp, Broadway Express, N, R,,Broadway Local, Fourth Avenue Local  or anything else.For the record, the only time that the Fourth Avenue Local terminated at 86th Street for an extended period of time was from 1916 to 1925 when the 95th Street Station was completed.

We used to have a saying in government "Keep it simple, stupid" but that seems to have been changed to "Keep it Complicated,Krazy" which I think has become the norm today.  My opinion is just have the train crew change the signs at City Hall to N to Gravesend 86th Street" or better yet go back to "N to Kings Highway" which everyone will understand.

Train crews are usually forbidden from changing letters mid-route.

[Abba]

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