Princelex Posted January 23, 2011 Share #251 Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks for the update guys. This order is truly insane, and I still think the should cancel the order if possible. The remaining order should go to New Flyer so we can get the XD40's AND the D40LFR's. Designline needs to go R.I.P. in NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 23, 2011 Share #252 Posted January 23, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted January 24, 2011 Share #253 Posted January 24, 2011 Wow, you guys really hate this order! IMO, you need to remember a couple things. For one, the DLs are the most efficient buses in the system by far. That matters. Not just that our air is polluted enough already, but clean buses bring good press for the TA and reduce the number of complaints the TA receives. There was no reason to go with these buses besides their efficiency, and considering the TA got into this thing to get efficient buses, you can bet there're going to have SOME efficient buses by the time they're out. They order DesignLines for other reasons.... The bus has no oil, strater, radiator and transmission. It was suppose to be a future bus for MTA, w/o those... MTA saves money. The other fact is that the TA never fails to commit on an order. 90 buses were ordered, and they're not here yet. That's the biggest problem. HVAC issues, etc. are just slowing it more, but many buses will have problems like that. I think the new head of Dept of Buses probably kill the order seeing that it takes 2 years to not even finish this order up. In fact this is Joe Smith bus order and Joe Smith is not with the MTA anymore. Baltimore already drop the DesignLine bus and going to Orion. Im sure the MTA contract will probably be piggyback on some other orders since we really need new buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 24, 2011 Share #254 Posted January 24, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted January 24, 2011 Share #255 Posted January 24, 2011 The MTA isn't going to save all that much money with these buses as the purchase cost is vastly higher than any previous buses. The ability to cut maintenance costs is a plus, yes, but these buses were not ordered specifically to save the MTA money -- per bus, it would take a long like to do that. the key thing is saving during the 12 years life of the bus, they dont want to order parts for the buses or "saving" the amount of fuel. That's MTA's dream for the future. I just doubt that the MTA will fail to commit, but it is always possible. Baltimore is Baltimore though, things go differently here. MTA has reasons to not to commit this order, they loosing money and time. I wont be surprised there be some litigation in the process that has spent on these buses. Baltimore has the same type of buses that run on city streets for more than a full year and MTA should have ask some transit agencies who have issues with DesignLines that can get some feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted January 24, 2011 Share #256 Posted January 24, 2011 Agreed ^ Granted the MTA may have more demands for their orders, but there's been a mere handful of buses from DL. They should just pull the plug on the order and either keep the oddball fleet or sell them and get rid of them entirely. If Manhattan needs the hybrids so bad, then they can take the hybrids from Queens and Brooklyn and send the Nova LFS in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 24, 2011 Share #257 Posted January 24, 2011 They order DesignLines for other reasons.... The bus has no oil, strater, radiator and transmission. It was suppose to be a future bus for MTA, w/o those... MTA saves money. I think the new head of Dept of Buses probably kill the order seeing that it takes 2 years to not even finish this order up. In fact this is Joe Smith bus order and Joe Smith is not with the MTA anymore. Baltimore already drop the DesignLine bus and going to Orion. Im sure the MTA contract will probably be piggyback on some other orders since we really need new buses. Well, we have no idea how this is going to work out, but I don't see the TA dropping the order. NYC/MTA is basically the testing platform for DesignLine, so I am quite sure we will continue to test these buses in the near future. And BTW, turbine engines do use oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 24, 2011 Share #258 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't hate this order because of performance issues, I hate this order now because it isn't ****ing here. And hell, any non-piston engine, or what have you, powering a bus is good in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous85 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #259 Posted January 25, 2011 Agreed ^Granted the MTA may have more demands for their orders, but there's been a mere handful of buses from DL. They should just pull the plug on the order and either keep the oddball fleet or sell them and get rid of them entirely. If Manhattan needs the hybrids so bad, then they can take the hybrids from Queens and Brooklyn and send the Nova LFS in return. I agree. I hope this Designline thing doesn't end up like the Orion 6 (although that was probably planned from the start). Just the 10 or so buses sitting there collecting dust for years part, I want this to work out. And I still have yet to even see a Designline in person let alone ride one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #260 Posted January 25, 2011 Wow, you guys really hate this order! IMO, you need to remember a couple things. For one, the DLs are the most efficient buses in the system by far. That matters. Not just that our air is polluted enough already, but clean buses bring good press for the TA and reduce the number of complaints the TA receives. There was no reason to go with these buses besides their efficiency, and considering the TA got into this thing to get efficient buses, you can bet there're going to have SOME efficient buses by the time they're out. The other fact is that the TA never fails to commit on an order. 90 buses were ordered, and they're not here yet. That's the biggest problem. HVAC issues, etc. are just slowing it more, but many buses will have problems like that. Recently, there's been the O6 test and scrap, the D60HF model cut, and the famous Flixible disaster. The O6 Hybrids were tested, but the TA never committed and hence never broke the order. The D60 debacle was NF ending their model right as we purchased, which really strained the TA's relations with NF. And the Flixible debacle was a mess caused by Flixible, taking place after the order. The TA sued Flixible, and that was a mess for the ages. Why do I bring these up? Point is, the TA never dumps orders. The only way this order ends is Designline says they can't get the buses to us, and we take the money elsewhere. These buses are not that bad when you actually ride them. It's pathetic DL can't get these buses working and with us, but the buses themselves are anything but poor. To be honest, I did not mind them. Now, if I could get an RTS with that technology and a turbine that sounded like DD50, I'd be sold! Nothing against the buses themselves (I find them to be aesthetically pleasing and I love environmentally friendly things), it just seems as if DL if full of delay and a lack of foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted January 26, 2011 Share #261 Posted January 26, 2011 I agree. I hope this Designline thing doesn't end up like the Orion 6 (although that was probably planned from the start). Just the 10 or so buses sitting there collecting dust for years part, I want this to work out. And I still have yet to even see a Designline in person let alone ride one. Agreed. It would've been nice to have another ride on an O6 again. [i loved the one that had the soft seats.] Ditto on not having been on them or seen them yet. I do hope it does work out, but at this point [if I was on the board] I would pull the plug on the handful here and give out new contract orders for buses that won't take so long to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 26, 2011 Share #262 Posted January 26, 2011 I agree. I hope this Designline thing doesn't end up like the Orion 6 (although that was probably planned from the start). Just the 10 or so buses sitting there collecting dust for years part, I want this to work out. And I still have yet to even see a Designline in person let alone ride one. The OVI paved the way for the OVII. They were supposed to be the first vehicles for the new wave of hybrids. Orions 6350-6359, and RTS' 6360-6364 were supposed to kick things off. The Orions ended up being a liability even though the TA was somewhat compensated for their premature retirement. The RTS order ended up being an unfortunate flop, which arguably killed Nova's tenure as RTS manufacture. They wasted a ton of money on the project, then pretty much abandoned it, and the RTS all together. They were also to be Lockheed powered like the O6, which I think was another major issue. Agreed. It would've been nice to have another ride on an O6 again. [i loved the one that had the soft seats.] Ditto on not having been on them or seen them yet. I do hope it does work out, but at this point [if I was on the board] I would pull the plug on the handful here and give out new contract orders for buses that won't take so long to arrive. If the TA had pulled the plug on the RTS, after they rejected the demo, it wouldn't be half the legend it it's today. A far as the DL's go, I have stated before that MTA is basically the test platform for this all new bus. The TA knew exactly what they were getting into when the began dealings with them. Not only that, but the TA it's not obligated to take delivey of anymore buses at all if they dont want to. The remainder of the order is optional, but I am sure they (DL) are trying to do everything in their power to get this behind them and deliver all the buses. Only time will tell I guess. If they dont get it together though, I could definitely see this ending like the O6 order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #263 Posted February 4, 2011 According to Second Ave Sagas, the order is cancelled and dead: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/02/03/end-of-the-designline-for-new-buses/ Test buses will be returned, a full refund taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #264 Posted February 4, 2011 According to Second Ave Sagas, the order is cancelled and dead: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/02/03/end-of-the-designline-for-new-buses/ Test buses will be returned, a full refund taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman1455 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #265 Posted February 4, 2011 Did you even ride the bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #266 Posted February 4, 2011 Did you even ride the bus? Yes I did, it was nice, but, if its not working out, it is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman1455 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #267 Posted February 4, 2011 Yes I did, it was nice, but, if its not working out, it is what it is... It was a great bus to run on the M42 and M9 not the M1 or any uptown routes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #268 Posted February 4, 2011 It was a great bus to run on the M42 and M9 not the M1 or any uptown routes I remember I seen it on the B47 once when GA had one, it was hauling ass! It had an very pleasant ride, no rattles or nothing. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #269 Posted February 4, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted February 4, 2011 Share #270 Posted February 4, 2011 If this is in fact the case, DL is in trouble. This may have killed their chances in North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 4, 2011 Share #271 Posted February 4, 2011 Good riddance to DesignLine!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted February 4, 2011 Share #272 Posted February 4, 2011 It had a spoiler, and was powered by turbines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted February 4, 2011 Share #273 Posted February 4, 2011 See, I knew this order is bound to fail. MTA really needs to keep their eyes on DesignLine... they have a trouble history to repay back to the vendors on building bus components. This 90 bus order needs to be piggyback ASAP. MTA really needs new buses badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted February 4, 2011 Share #274 Posted February 4, 2011 There are teething issues, and then there is just a hapless bus, which the EcoSaver turned out to be. I have to wonder if this will be curtains for DesignLine in the United States (and what it means for its Pacific Island operations; it's the major builder of buses in New Zealand), as the MTA's action follows what the City of Baltimore did for its Charm City circulator. Regarding what will happen to the buses, I would not be surprised if they were stripped and the bodies scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted February 4, 2011 Share #275 Posted February 4, 2011 See, I knew this order is bound to fail. MTA really needs to keep their eyes on DesignLine... they have a trouble history to repay back to the vendors on building bus components. This 90 bus order needs to be piggyback ASAP. MTA really needs new buses badly. Just go to LFS'. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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