R179 Discussion Thread

[LGA Link N Train]

5 minutes ago, Lance said:

What happened to all the A1s that ran on the prior to the Myrtle Ave closure?

They all went to ENY or something 

[Fan Railer]

2 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

 R42s are not able to run on the full length M. 

What's the reason for this again? C/R boards?

Edited January 29, 2018 by Fan Railer

[CDTA]

14 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It may work.  It would be weird having brand new trains on the B. It does address the need of more trains on the B, especially during rush hour where the wait times is ridiculously long compared to other lines and having the D running express in the Bronx makes the situation worse.

This would not add any trains to the , the R179s would just allow for the 's R68As to be moved to the .

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

You can't run 8 car R42's on non eastern division lines and giving the most of the R32's wouldn't work neither. 

Something about having to pull up all the way to the 10 car marker, right? That could potentially be an issue, but I don't see it as a deal-breaker, especially when we're talking a max of 3 on the line at once (potentially lower if you decide to lower the R32's spare ratio and have the R42s as spares primarily). Is there any other reason why the R32s wouldn't work on the other then the A/C issue? Not downplaying the A/C issue, I just want to make sure that's it, because if it is, given the benefits of putting it on the R32s (can make 480-foot trains, keeps them isolated, puts them on a line that doesn't need rollsign changes) they might be willing to overlook it.

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

Making the and 100% R46's (in response to another thread) would be dumb. Those lines are gonna need as much 60 footers as possible. 

I don't believe the and are crowded enough to warrant moving 60-footers on the line given the operational inefficiencies that come with that. With Jamaica having so many R160s, the 75-footers have to go somewhere, and right now the only proposed line that doesn't have them is the (which only has the R179s because they're already based at CI), and the (which has them for the reasons stated above).

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The is better off being mostly 8 car R160 or R179 supplemented with 4-6 sets of 8 car R32's. 

There really aren't any 8-car R160s left if the are all NTT (which correct me if I'm wrong but I believe needed to be the case to maximize capacity over the Williamsburg Bridge)

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Have the be 7 sets of R179's, 3 sets of of R42's and 8 sets of R32's or 4 sets of R46's and 4 sets of R32's. The is said to have the R32's temporary but that doesn't mean the is ruled out of not having R32's. 

The could be a mixture of R32's (4 sets), R46's and R179's (5 sets, 6 during the pm rush)

Wouldn't really work because of the stuff I mentioned above, unless you're putting 6-car R46s on the (which could admittedly theoretically work but I don't think is optimal simply because of rollsign issues, I imagine stopping location issues, and complications after the shutdown, but if it's that important to make the 60-footers that can be overlooked, again I just don't think it's important enough)

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The r42s will be retired as well as some r32s, especially now that there's a surplus of trains. Only a few r32s will be preserved for Canarsie tunnel shutdown. 

From what I recall nothing is retiring until the end of the shutdown.

[R32 3838]

The and has alot of ridership and when the R32's are on the they load up faster and discharge faster. Imo the should get all 12 R179 10 car trainsets with 6 trainsets of R32's while the can be 100% R46's or 70% R46's and 30% R32. And in the summer run those 6 trainsets on the in exchange for six R46 trainsets. The should be 100% 60 footers since it would carry more people.

The would get the 8 R179's with 4-6 R32's and the would get some R32's as well. 

 

And as for the keeping the R42's after the work is done is not happening. If they need those cars they'll be on the and (Z).

But I hope the gets all the 12 sets of 10 car R179's supplemented by six full length R32's. No rollsign changing for the R32's and the can be 100% 60 footers again as full length cars. The can wait until the R211's.

 

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

37 minutes ago, CDTA said:

This would not add any trains to the , the R179s would just allow for the 's R68As to be moved to the Q.

I understand, but are there currently 25 trains running on B?? 

Because it seems less considering how long people have to wait for the B, especially during rush hour in the Bronx and upper Manhattan. 

 

[biGC323232]

5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The and has alot of ridership and when the R32's are on the they load up faster and discharge faster. Imo the should get all 12 R179 10 car trainsets with 6 trainsets of R32's while the can be 100% R46's or 70% R46's and 30% R32. And in the summer run those 6 trainsets on the in exchange for six R46 trainsets. The should be 100% 60 footers since it would carry more people.

The would get the 8 R179's with 4-6 R32's and the would get some R32's as well. 

 

And as for the keeping the R42's after the work is done is not happening. If they need those cars they'll be on the and (Z).

But I hope the gets all the 12 sets of 10 car R179's supplemented by six full length R32's. No rollsign changing for the R32's and the can be 100% 60 footers again as full length cars. The can wait until the R211's.

 

 

Makes Sense to me...Lets hope it make sense to the transit authority...

[subwaycommuter1983]

11 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The and has alot of ridership and when the R32's are on the they load up faster and discharge faster. Imo the should get all 12 R179 10 car trainsets with 6 trainsets of R32's while the can be 100% R46's or 70% R46's and 30% R32. And in the summer run those 6 trainsets on the in exchange for six R46 trainsets. The should be 100% 60 footers since it would carry more people.

The would get the 8 R179's with 4-6 R32's and the would get some R32's as well. 

 

And as for the keeping the R42's after the work is done is not happening. If they need those cars they'll be on the and (Z).

But I hope the gets all the 12 sets of 10 car R179's supplemented by six full length R32's. No rollsign changing for the R32's and the can be 100% 60 footers again as full length cars. The can wait until the R211's.

 

 

I think it's a very good option. 

[Bosco]

21 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I understand, but are there currently 25 trains running on B?? 

Because it seems less considering how long people have to wait for the B, especially during rush hour in the Bronx and upper Manhattan. 

 

As someone who relies on the  regularly, the train is susceptible to bunching during rush hour.  It's especially bad in the PM rush, where trains are still scheduled every 8-10 minutes (as opposed to 6-8 minutes northbound in the AM).  The train comes across multiple merges with the and  and those lines usually get priority.  It's not that uncommon for there to be no southbound trains at Sheepshead for 15 minutes, and then 3 come one right after the other.

I highly doubt the will see R179s.  If Coney Island were to get the 5-car sets, those would be better on the to handle SAS crowds.  At the same time, I sincerely hope the and get them as they were supposed to all along.  The  has gone far too long without 60' cars, and it needs them badly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Bosco said:

As someone who relies on the  regularly, the train is susceptible to bunching during rush hour.  It's especially bad in the PM rush, where trains are still scheduled every 8-10 minutes (as opposed to 6-8 minutes northbound in the AM).  The train comes across multiple merges with the and  and those lines usually get priority.  It's not that uncommon for there to be no southbound trains at Sheepshead for 15 minutes, and then 3 come one right after the other.

I highly doubt the will see R179s.  If Coney Island were to get the 5-car sets, those would be better on the to handle SAS crowds.  At the same time, I sincerely hope the and get them as they were supposed to all along.  The  has gone far too long without 60' cars, and it needs them badly.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes that the  runs like utter crap.

[U-BahnNYC]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The should be 100% 60 footers since it would carry more people.

Again, the riders will quickly run to the at the next express top. It's always been like that and it will be. If anything, the should be majority 60-footers for crying out loud!

[subwaycommuter1983]

35 minutes ago, Bosco said:

As someone who relies on the  regularly, the train is susceptible to bunching during rush hour.  It's especially bad in the PM rush, where trains are still scheduled every 8-10 minutes (as opposed to 6-8 minutes northbound in the AM).  The train comes across multiple merges with the and  and those lines usually get priority.  It's not that uncommon for there to be no southbound trains at Sheepshead for 15 minutes, and then 3 come one right after the other.

I highly doubt the will see R179s.  If Coney Island were to get the 5-car sets, those would be better on the to handle SAS crowds.  At the same time, I sincerely hope the and get them as they were supposed to all along.  The  has gone far too long without 60' cars, and it needs them badly.

That is so true. It's a big problem in the Bronx.  Either the MTA adds more trains to be B or the D runs local in the Bronx 24/7. 

25 trains on the B?? I doubt it. 

[Art Vandelay]

4 hours ago, Fan Railer said:

What's the reason for this again? C/R boards?

In the words of Roy Orbison
"You got it!"

 

4 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

They all went to ENY or something 

They've always been at ENY. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Art Vandelay

[Jemorie]

26 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That is so true. It's a big problem in the Bronx.  Either the MTA adds more trains to be B or the D runs local in the Bronx 24/7. 

25 trains on the B?? I doubt it. 

Why does the need to run local in the Bronx 24/7? Anybody traveling from 205th Street, Bedford Park Boulevard, Kingsbridge Road, Fordham Road, and Tremont Avenue would want an express train during the morning commute to Midtown Manhattan, West 4th Street, Broadway-Lafayette Street, Grand Street, and Downtown Brooklyn (Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center).

Make the local in the Bronx full-time, and all of the AM Rush Hour riders who live near or by the Grand Concourse express stations will be mad at you.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Jemorie

[Bosco]

2 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Why does the need to run local in the Bronx 24/7? Anybody traveling from 205th Street, Bedford Park Boulevard, Kingsbridge Road, Fordham Road, and Tremont Avenue would want an express train during the morning commute to Midtown Manhattan, West 4th Street, Broadway-Lafayette Street, Grand Street, and Downtown Brooklyn (Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center).

The is only a true express between 145 St and Tremont Av.  North of there, it is express, but like a 6 Av express (only a few stops are skipped).  Having it run local would only add about 5-6 minutes to travel time but provide much better service for Bronx riders, especially since there's about 1.5  trains to every 1 .  In the afternoon, it would be a huge since during the spring and summer afternoons, the  frequently stops at 161 St anyway.  Just having it run local all the way preempts the from having to switch to the local and back.

 

32 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That is so true. It's a big problem in the Bronx.  Either the MTA adds more trains to be B or the D runs local in the Bronx 24/7. 

25 trains on the B?? I doubt it. 

30 trains on the ?  44 trains on the ?  There are a handful of people who will readily contest this.  However, IIRC, there are 25 trains in the AM, but 23 in the PM.  Bunching/gapping is a huge problem and creates the illusion that there are less trains than there actually are.

[subwaycommuter1983]

6 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Why does the need to run local in the Bronx 24/7? Anybody traveling from 205th Street, Bedford Park Boulevard, Kingsbridge Road, Fordham Road, and Tremont Avenue would want an express train during the morning commute to Midtown Manhattan, West 4th Street, Broadway-Lafayette Street, Grand Street, and Downtown Brooklyn (Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center).

Make the local in the Bronx full-time, and all of the AM Rush Hour riders who live near or by the Grand Concourse express stations will be mad at you.

Well at least the people who live near or by the Concourse Local stations will be happy. 

But again there is the other option of adding trains to the B. 

[Jemorie]

Just add a few more trains to the and keep the express throughout the entire rush hour timeframe including during events at Yankee Stadium...simple...

[R32 3838]

Does anyone knows when 3010-19 will go into service?

 

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

21 hours ago, CDTA said:

I can respect that. Having said that......

 

18 R32s, 3 R42s

21 R179s, 3 R160s, 5 R143s

32 R160s

16 R143s

which would turn into at the end of the shutdown

13 R179s (maintains the 8-car length but brings it back to its pre-shutdown frequency)

11 R160s, 9 R179s

23 R160s

21 R143s, 3 R160s

As for the other lines.....

33 R46s

21 R68As

14 R68s, 11 R179s

38 R46s

4 R46s, 14 10-car R160s

All R160

This would keep things relatively simplified while also meeting the MTA's goals (SMEEs off of the , full length trains) while also matching the planned service levels during the shutdown.  (Also with an added bonus of keeping the R68s off of rollsign changing lines as much as possible)

During the shutdown the yards would look like this:

207th - R160, Pitkin - R46, ENY - R143, R160, R179, Jamaica - R160, CI - R32, R42, R46, R68, R179

And afterwards would look like this:

207th - R160, Pitkin - R46, ENY - R143, R160, R179, Jamaica - R160, CI - R46, R68, R179

Seems like the best way to divvy it up to me.

You can't run an 8-car set of R42s on the    due to the fact of there being only 1 cab per car. The C/R boards won't line up at any of the stations.

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

You can't run an 8-car set of R42s on the    due to the fact of there being only 1 cab per car. The C/R boards won't line up at any of the stations.

There's nothing stopping them from putting up new boards for the shutdown... They're gonna have to do it anyway for the R179 at most stations.

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

There's nothing stopping them from putting up new boards for the shutdown... They're gonna have to do it anyway for the R179 at most stations.

They're not gonna waste money putting up multiple boards. They don't need to put up new boards since the 8 cars line up the existing boards that are used for full length trains. 

[biGC323232]

14 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Does anyone knows when 3010-19 will go into service?

 

I was waiting on you to tell us that....

[CDTA]

16 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

You can't run an 8-car set of R42s on the    due to the fact of there being only 1 cab per car. The C/R boards won't line up at any of the stations.

Didn't mention it at the time because I didn't think it was relevant, but there's one extra 8-car R42 that wouldn't be used for service that isn't a spare. You could take that train and split it up so all the remaining R42s are 10 cars, then put them on the most crowded runs. (There's also an extra 8-car R32 and 8-car R160 for anyone wondering, again this is accounting for the current spare ratio for each fleet)

[m2fwannabe]

23 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

You can't run an 8-car set of R42s on the    due to the fact of there being only 1 cab per car. The C/R boards won't line up at any of the stations.

That's almost right.  The 8-car R-40/40M/42's C/R cabs were only located between alternate pairs of cars (i.e. 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8).  The existing boards were located at 4-5 where only R-32/38's had C/R and T/O cabs, while R-40/40M/R-42's had only T/O cabs, not C/R's cabs.  So, NYCT measured and hung special 8-car C/R boards with red and yellow candy striping at the 5-6 position at all and stations, as well as Sixth Ave. for diversions.  All went well until a test run showed that there weren't always reachable "punches" at the 8-car stop positions the trains would use in association with the new C/R boards.  After an alternate proposal was discarded (yellow septagonal "8-car R40/40M/42" train stops), RTO then covered or painted over the "8" car stop signs and forced all 8-car R-32/38/40/40M/42 trains to pull ahead to the 10-car marks, where there were punches and their C/R cabs between cars 5-6 on R-32/28/40/40M/42's would line up with existing C/R boards at the 10-car position.  That lasted exactly one month (December 2008 to January 2009) before the resulting surreality and confusion (and complaints) resulted in a reversal of operations on to R-32's and R-38's and the 8-car stop signs restored.  The R-40s, R-40Ms and MK R-42s then went to as 10-car trains.  The intent was to be temporary in any case; had Mayor Bloomberg's first Congestion Pricing initiative passed there was the be another swap resulting in 8-car R-46s for all operations.  There are still R-46 links out there bearing blue diamonds by the number boards that designated them for a "future" use on that never occured.

8-car R-40/40M/42's were never tested for line at the time, but one could postulate a similar result.

For now, the MK's would appear to be destined for 10-car use on  as sufficient 4-car R-179 sets arrive to replace them on .

That would "kick" a few more 8-car (600 ft) R-46 trains over to .

"When" is up to the R-179's.

On 1/29/2018 at 5:10 PM, Art Vandelay said:

In the words of Roy Orbison
"You got it!"

 

They've always been at ENY. 

There are still 272 R-160A-1's at ENY.  68 of them have CBTC for .  They never came off but are diverted to Broadway Junction during the Myrtle job.

Presumably, at some point as  is gradually assumed by 8-car R-46 trains the 207 Street R-160A-1 allocation of 106 will be sent back "home" to ENY ().

[R32 3838]

The blue diamonds ment those R46's were supposed to belong at 207th st to replace the R32's and send them into retirement back in 2010 then the R44 thing happened. 

 

 

[LGA Link N Train]

Unexpectedly,  I just caught one of the 2 R179 sets on the train. I'm inside of it as I'm typing this 

UPDATE. Just saw the other set rolling by to Jamaica Center between 75 and Cypress Hills 

Both R179's are in service today. And does anyone know when the next sets will arrive?

Edited February 1, 2018 by LGA Link N train
Personal Correspondence towards everything I'm typing