SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Lawrence St]

Another thing, it's been what 2 months since the came online and they STILL haven't fixed that issue at Times Square and 49th St...

[Mysterious2train]

17 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

Because they know that no community will ever agree to cut and cover; the MTA has ruined their reputation when it comes to community impact from capital projects after 63rd Street and, most recently, SAS. People won't forget that even with deep bore tunneling, SAS phase 1 still managed to be a decade-long pain for the East Side. If the MTA had a better record with meeting budgets and timelines, and really minimizing the impacts of their construction work, doing cut and cover in a more widespread fashion would likely be on the table. They're still proposing it as one of the (and, in my opinion, the best) options for the Grand Street SAS stop to allow a cross-platform transfer to the . In order to stay out of the way of potentially oppositional communities the MTA will choose cut-and-cover, for better or for worse, for future projects.

Not anymore. The SDEIS (supplemental draft environmental impact statement) for the SAS project in 2003 considered the cut-and-cover shallow Chrystie option that would include a cross-platform transfer at Grand Street. But the FEIS (final environmental impact statement) from 2004 officially dropped the shallow Chrystie option and chose the deep Chrystie option that would use tunnel-boring machines and put the  below the  and . 

Quote

From the FEIS, chapter 2, page 9: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/feis/chapter02.pdf,

(The Forsyth Street option was an option that would have put the  tunnels under Forsyth Street in Chinatown - a block east of Chrystie Street. It was thankfully eliminated as an idea). 

Now it's possible that the MTA could revive the shallow Chrystie option when they update their design and engineering work for Phase 3, but I really doubt it. The question of which construction option will be chosen for Chrystie Street will ultimately have to be decided for Phase 3, since whether or not the  will pass above the  at Houston St (as originally planned in the 1930s) or below will depend on which Chrystie Street option is chosen. 

Quote

This graph is from the SDEIS, chapter 5, page 12: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/sdeis/chapter5b.pdf

Quote

This is the updated version from the DEIS, chapter 5, page 14: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/feis/chapter05b.pdf

(Sidenote: You can easily date these from how the 's Chrystie St tracks are listed as "non-revenue" plus the listings of the   and  - talk about a blast from the past)

Notice how this updated chart doesn't list the shallow Chrystie option, and also makes some parts of the line deeper underground compared to the SDEIS? 

Again, this could all change in the future, but I don't see the MTA moving away from deep stations anytime soon.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Mysterious2train

[BreeddekalbL]

well they should if they want to get costs down, how do you explain $2 billion a mile?

[Calvin]

Does the  and the Shuttle  share the same gray color? I've noticed the Shuttle has a similar gray like the  on 42 St and Rockaway. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Calvin

[P3F]

6 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Does the  and the Shuttle  share the same gray color? I've noticed the Shuttle has a similar gray like the  on 42 St and Rockaway. 

The  is darker.

[Union Tpke]

10 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Does the  and the Shuttle  share the same gray color? I've noticed the Shuttle has a similar gray like the  on 42 St and Rockaway. 

Just look at  and .

[trainfan22]

I been noticing lately that C/R's have making manual PSA announcements on the NTT, I don't understand why they just don't use the automated PSA announcements, when the C/R does it manually, its not as clear and you can barely hear what their saying.

[CTK246]

1 minute ago, trainfan22 said:

I been noticing lately that C/R's have making manual PSA announcements on the NTT, I don't understand why they just don't use the automated PSA announcements, when the C/R does it manually, its not as clear and you can barely hear what their saying.

I think they’re trying to re-record the announcements to be gender-neutral.

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

I'm curious to see how efficient service will be on the  once CBTC is fully operational.  The remaining R62A sets out of Corona Yard might find their way to Lexington Avenue for all I know. I wonder if the  will be their new home.

Edited February 28, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[Lance]

12 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

12 hours ago, Calvin said:

Does the  and the Shuttle  share the same gray color? I've noticed the Shuttle has a similar gray like the  on 42 St and Rockaway. 

Just look at  and .

To clarify, the Canarsie line is colored 50% black with a hexadecimal color of #a7a9ac whereas the shuttles are colored 75% black with #808183 as the hexadecimal.

9 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I'm curious to see how efficient service will be on the  once CBTC is fully operational.  The remaining R62A sets out of Corona Yard might find their way to Lexington Avenue for all I know. I wonder if the  will be their new home.

I can't see where else they'd be assigned to. Unlike the , the  and haven't lost any cars in their fleets recently.

[Gong Gahou]

13 hours ago, Calvin said:

Does the  and the Shuttle  share the same gray color? I've noticed the Shuttle has a similar gray like the  on 42 St and Rockaway. 

Your eyes aren't fooling you. Unless there is a change in the past couple of years, both bullets should use the same color.

13 hours ago, P3F said:

The  is darker.

13 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Just look at  and .

1 hour ago, Lance said:

To clarify, the Canarsie line is colored 50% black with a hexadecimal color of #a7a9ac whereas the shuttles are colored 75% black with #808183 as the hexadecimal.

The official colors listed on the MTA website differ slightly from the colors they actually use on signage. In the 2009 Graphic Standards manual, everything is the same except it specifies the 1980 colors for the 8th Avenue Line, the L and the S. You can actually observe this - the shade of grey used on the S bullets isn't even as dark as 70% black.

Also, the MTA's last known bulk rollsign order (about two years ago for either the R-42 or R-46) had the same color specifications as well, so that should indicate how relevant these color standards are.

[CenSin]

18 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I been noticing lately that C/R's have making manual PSA announcements on the NTT, I don't understand why they just don't use the automated PSA announcements, when the C/R does it manually, its not as clear and you can barely hear what their saying.

They’ve offended New Yorkers for decades with those automated announcements! Enough is enough! Political correctness trumps audibility!

 

 

/s <-- for good measure

[OIG119]

Does anybody know why when after a train arrives at a terminal and dumps its brakes it waits several seconds for the doors to be opened?

[Calvin]

Floor mats are now on C.I R160's #8808 and 9058

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, OIG119 said:

Does anybody know why when after a train arrives at a terminal and dumps its brakes it waits several seconds for the doors to be opened?

On trains with full width cabs the C/R usually changes cabs before opening the door.

[jon2305]

I've noticed they haven't been changing the front rollsigns anymore on the R62As to the express diamond/signage. Assuming there was probably a memorandum stating not to change them anymore like on the years ago and just rely on the side LED signs.

[Lance]

There probably isn't enough idle time at the terminals for crews to change them. With the express/local LED lights, along with the countdown clocks, riders are still aware of where the train will terminate (for the most part) even without the correct signage.

[LGA Link N Train]

Well I had a smooth ride today. I got on the at 63 Drive and in 2 minutes I was at Forest Hills. Then I waited 3 minutes for the but it came 2 minutes early And the train had a Cuomo scheme. I had a smooth ride. It wasn't that crowded at all surprisingly and there were no homeless whatsoever. Got off at Sutphin Blvd and an R179   on the Brooklyn bound platform came up. The conductor messed up the announcements atfer Woodhaven Blvd. (I don't trust all of the announcements anyways since I know my way around the subway.) This ended up confusing one woman and she left the train. The automated announcements were soon fixed After the train left Cypress Hills and I got off at Norwood Avenue and continued on with my journey. Gotta say that was the best commute I've had. 

[itmaybeokay]

On 2/28/2018 at 6:12 PM, OIG119 said:

Does anybody know why when after a train arrives at a terminal and dumps its brakes it waits several seconds for the doors to be opened?

 

On 2/28/2018 at 8:33 PM, trainfan22 said:

On trains with full width cabs the C/R usually changes cabs before opening the door.

Yes. At a stub terminal, unless the train is headed to the yard, the conductor changes cabs, then opens the doors.

With rare exception, the conductor operates from the cab in the back half of the train. So motor #5 in an 8-car consist and motor #6 in a 10 car consist. At a stub terminal, they'll move and open the doors from the front half of the train, (motor #4 or 5 depending on consist). 

This is because the doors can only be closed from the cab they were opened from - and on the reverse trip, what was front is now back! Once the train departs, the new operating motor was the last car in the consist inbound, and the new C/R position switches accordingly. 

There's an exception to this for some older trains. 

To quote snowblock

Quote

On the 46/62/68's, the C/R can actually open immediately from the first position AS LONG AS the crew intends to key open 1 door per car while the train sits in the pocket. You open, close, dezone, and then start keying doors. On the 142 and up, you need to establish the new zone regardless of whether you're going to leave all doors or just one open, since the door control lets you go from open to partial close without closing all of the doors first, and you can only dezone when ALL doors are closed.

Also damn that thread 5 years ago devolved into 6 pages of IDEK what considering the answer is fairly simple and logical, so - lets not do that again? 

Edited March 2, 2018 by itmaybeokay
Clarifying change of operating motor.

[Deucey]

So yeah, yesterday on a crowded AF , someone pushed me as I was getting off at Bk Bridge to let pax out, and my right foot got stuck between the platform and the train (car 7 of a 10-car consist).

Is there some difference in R62 and R142 width or turning clearance that makes it to where the gap between the platform and R142s should be wide enough for a size 12 foot to fall and get stuck when exiting the train? Because it seems to me that should be making the gap narrower wherever possible. (I would've sued, but I walked it off after I got my foot out - took 20 seconds so I technically wasn't a sick passenger.)

[Lance]

Yesterday, I had to take the  to the Bronx and I noticed the destination announcements for the Dyre Av-bound trains via White Plains express use the Nereid Av-bound recordings between 125 Street and 149 St-Grand Concourse. At least that was the case on 6991 and company. Of course, I can't say I'm surprised, but these easy mistakes need to be fixed, especially when they have this much opportunity to cause confusion. Same thing with the ever prevalent transfer errors on the FINDs.

[itmaybeokay]

4 hours ago, Deucey said:

So yeah, yesterday on a crowded AF , someone pushed me as I was getting off at Bk Bridge to let pax out, and my right foot got stuck between the platform and the train (car 7 of a 10-car consist).

Is there some difference in R62 and R142 width or turning clearance that makes it to where the gap between the platform and R142s should be wide enough for a size 12 foot to fall and get stuck when exiting the train? Because it seems to me that should be making the gap narrower wherever possible. (I would've sued, but I walked it off after I got my foot out - took 20 seconds so I technically wasn't a sick passenger.)

The cars are the same width - actually the 142 is like an inch wider - but, Your question made me curious how the staggered doors on the R142s affected platform gap. Did a little crappy scale drawing. 

This is based on the tech drawings of the R62 and R142A. Car scale, Door position, size, and truck location should all be dead on. I got a little sloppy and didn't bother depicting truck rotation but truck center is centered between rails here - it's fine. 

The middle door is always bad when the track is curved away from the platform. On the R142 though, the car end doors can have larger gaps, both due to staggering of the doors, and the fact that they are larger. I should have done this in autodesk that would have looked way better X-X

[P3F]

About 10 minutes ago, a fight broke out on a  train at Kings Highway. I do not know the cause. Stay safe if you're in the area!

 

[Deucey]

35 minutes ago, itmaybeokay said:

The cars are the same width - actually the 142 is like an inch wider - but, Your question made me curious how the staggered doors on the R142s affected platform gap. Did a little crappy scale drawing. 

This is based on the tech drawings of the R62 and R142A. Car scale, Door position, size, and truck location should all be dead on. I got a little sloppy and didn't bother depicting truck rotation but truck center is centered between rails here - it's fine. 

The middle door is always bad when the track is curved away from the platform. On the R142 though, the car end doors can have larger gaps, both due to staggering of the doors, and the fact that they are larger. I should have done this in autodesk that would have looked way better X-X

That’s what I thought - that the mid doors would have a more atrocious gap.

I’ve been at stations with gaps (one of those Sea Beach stations uptown on  almost got me one time), but this one at Bk Bridge was so surprising since I’ve made it off an R62 in the same scenario with no problem.

That’s a helluva safety hazard though.

Anyone think it possible to narrow that gap and have enough clearance for trains to operate?

[Jchambers2120]

2 hours ago, Lance said:

Yesterday, I had to take the  to the Bronx and I noticed the destination announcements for the Dyre Av-bound trains via White Plains express use the Nereid Av-bound recordings between 125 Street and 149 St-Grand Concourse. At least that was the case on 6991 and company. Of course, I can't say I'm surprised, but these easy mistakes need to be fixed, especially when they have this much opportunity to cause confusion. Same thing with the ever prevalent transfer errors on the FINDs.

Sometimes i feel like it's not even worth the hassle to keep updating the signs and announcements, New Yorkers don't pay attention anyway. Today i was on a headed uptown, at 14th street this guy jumps on the train and starts shouting "Is this train headed to Astoria!?" I didn't even say anything, if you can't take 2 seconds to read the countdown clocks or listen to the announcements I'm not even going to bother. Oh but it gets better! At 72 street some other guy bolts down the stairs into the train, realizes we're headed uptown then gets caught in the doors trying to escape. PM rush hour the other side of the platform is packed and you run a marathon for an empty train.