SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

There are a ton of R32’s in Concourse Yard with the number plates & logos ripped off…

it’s a bad idea, I’m telling you…keep those cars in storage until the 211’s are in.

The R32s are officially retired now, meaning they are no longer passenger cars. The space that they are occupying will eventually be needed for fleet expansion; that is why they're being scrapped now. You & others may not agree with it, but the decisions have already been made; whether we like it or not, we all have to deal with it and accept it.

There is no legitimate reason to keep these cars around. The R179s are doing better now; yes they still have issues, but they still perform decently & get the job done; and they will get better with time (SMS). Yes the R46s are also up in age and have many issues, but they aren't yet as bad mechanically as the R32s. Even if they had been kept in service, they would be dropping like flies just like the R46s, except worse; so what's the point?

The R211s will be here, so everyone needs to just relax & be patient.

52 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

They have not been training new hires on the older SMEES. I don’t even know what a Drum switch looks like, let alone how to set one.

 

keeping them just doesn’t make sense when you run the risk of having a crew that doesn’t know how to run them.

Exactly.

[R32 3838]

They only are going to keep a handful (for now, all subject to change) They are only scrapping 40 to 50% of the fleet. That percentage could increase but for now the scrap contract only calls for a certain amount which was already planned before they made the decision to retire them. They don't need all 222 cars since the R179s replaced half of the fleet and the first 80 or so R211cars are replacing the remaining R32s that are already retired.

3 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The R32s are officially retired now, meaning they are no longer passenger cars. The space that they are occupying will eventually be needed for fleet expansion; that is why they're being scrapped now. You & others may not agree with it, but the decisions have already been made; whether we like it or not, we all have to deal with it and accept it.

There is no legitimate reason to keep these cars around. The R179s are doing better now; yes they still have issues, but they still perform decently & get the job done; and they will get better with time (SMS). Yes the R46s are also up in age and have many issues, but they aren't yet as bad mechanically as the R32s. Even if they had been kept in service, they would be dropping like flies just like the R46s, except worse; so what's the point?

The R211s will be here, so everyone needs to just relax & be patient.

Exactly.

 

What you and other people don't seem to understand is that the B divsion (Pitkin, CI and Concourse) have basically barely to no spares. The remaining R32s weren't supposed to retire until the 1st R211 set enters service. Politics is what made MTA decide to retire the R32s that they were going to keep plus covid was the final nail in the coffin. Then the R179 incident happened in 2020 which brought the R32s back until October of that year. Then they were in storage until late 2021 when decided to officially retire the remaining cars because at that time they thought since the R211s were already on property and were going to be in service 12 months after delivery. That's what made them make the decision which do make sense. The one issue did not look at is the supply chain shortage which could cause delays in the order. Then the other problems started piling up and now they are in a situation where they have no spares and the R46s are taking a beating because of it. Like it or not when the R32s were running, The R46s didn't have as much issues as they do now. The has to share their R46s with a 5 set spare factor and a pair of A-A cars which isn't enough due to how much cars you need for the line alone. The R179s barely do anything because there is only 130 of them for the which is 10% (they use 9-10 sets with the remaining being spares). And the is mixed length which is dumb all together.

 

put themselves in a corner due to betting too much on the R211s when issues started popping up Both with the cars and at the plant on top of the supply chain shortages. Now They have to deal with an unreliable R46 fleet until enough R211s cover the void. Plus I don't see any R46s with the exception of cars that are shot beyond repair going out so fast. They need the cars and with the city and state pushing for congestion pricing, Scrapping anything outside of the R32s would be very dumb.

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

They only are going to keep a handful (for now, all subject to change) They are only scrapping 40 to 50% of the fleet. That percentage could increase but for now the scrap contract only calls for a certain amount which was already planned before they made the decision to retire them. They don't need all 222 cars since the R179s replaced half of the fleet and the first 80 or so R211cars are replacing the remaining R32s that are already retired.

 

What you and other people don't seem to understand is that the B divsion (Pitkin, CI and Concourse) have basically barely to no spares. The remaining R32s weren't supposed to retire until the 1st R211 set enters service. Politics is what made MTA decide to retire the R32s that they were going to keep plus covid was the final nail in the coffin. Then the R179 incident happened in 2020 which brought the R32s back until October of that year. Then they were in storage until late 2021 when decided to officially retire the remaining cars because at that time they thought since the R211s were already on property and were going to be in service 12 months after delivery. That's what made them make the decision which do make sense. The one issue did not look at is the supply chain shortage which could cause delays in the order. Then the other problems started piling up and now they are in a situation where they have no spares and the R46s are taking a beating because of it. Like it or not when the R32s were running, The R46s didn't have as much issues as they do now. The has to share their R46s with a 5 set spare factor and a pair of A-A cars which isn't enough due to how much cars you need for the line alone. The R179s barely do anything because there is only 130 of them for the which is 10% (they use 9-10 sets with the remaining being spares). And the is mixed length which is dumb all together.

 

put themselves in a corner due to betting too much on the R211s when issues started popping up Both with the cars and at the plant on top of the supply chain shortages. Now They have to deal with an unreliable R46 fleet until enough R211s cover the void. Plus I don't see any R46s with the exception of cars that are shot beyond repair going out so fast. They need the cars and with the city and state pushing for congestion pricing, Scrapping anything outside of the R32s would be very dumb.

I get the 'low spares' issue, and yes the mixed-length is not good, among some other things; but like I said, there's nothing we can do except wait for the R211s. Once enough of them are in service, they can fix these issues one by one. 

First, plug in the shortage gaps. Second, gradually push out the 4-car R179s from 207th to make the full length. Then, after the 4-car sets are fully out, move the 5-car R179s over to the (C), making it 100% NTT. This would be a smart move since 8th Ave. CBTC is planned to be installed on the local tracks first. CBTC is installed in segments, so there won't be a rush to make both the & 100% NTT with the base order; they can fulfill that with the first option order.

In regards to scrapping the R46s, I'm pretty sure they won't do it immediately as the R211s come in; but once they have no more storage space, they will have no choice but to start the process. By then, they would have already made the plans; so let's just wait and see.

[Lawrence St]

When did they remove the temporary overpass for track M at 149th St?

[RandomRider0101]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:26 PM, texassubwayfan555 said:

I take back my opinion, but I wish there was more space to store preserved cars.

Also what is the status on the R262?

The R262 is still in the planning stages; the bidding hasn't started yet and likely won't until most or all of the R211 base order is in.

[Kamen Rider]

There is currently no problem with lacking spare trains… because there aren’t enough people available to run them. 

 

We’re still short hundreds of train operators and conductors. Hell, the current conductor’s list will be used at least until 2024, 8 years after the test was given. Just imagine that… like applying for a job on your first day of high school and starting the day you graduate college.

[RandomRider0101]

5 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

There is currently no problem with lacking spare trains… because there aren’t enough people available to run them. 

 

We’re still short hundreds of train operators and conductors. Hell, the current conductor’s list will be used at least until 2024, 8 years after the test was given. Just imagine that… like applying for a job on your first day of high school and starting the day you graduate college.

This is literally what I said before. There is still an ongoing crew shortage that many don't seem to be taking into account. People keep talking about car retirements/disposals & spare shortages, but who's talking about the crew shortages?

Even when ridership fully returns back to normal, the  still can't run full service if they don't have full crews.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[R32 3838]

6 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

There is currently no problem with lacking spare trains… because there aren’t enough people available to run them. 

 

We’re still short hundreds of train operators and conductors. Hell, the current conductor’s list will be used at least until 2024, 8 years after the test was given. Just imagine that… like applying for a job on your first day of high school and starting the day you graduate college.

There is a spare issue, Besides the crew shortage. One of my friends who is a senior T/O even explained this to me that on some days they have ABDs due to having no equipment. Esp on the line. It's a weird situation, You have the R46s at CI which run like pure garbage (those issues could be solved by running the R46s on the ). They Can get away with certain things for now due to the crew shortage but they will have to figure out something within a year or two. If Congestion pricing wasn't pushed as hard, Then this wouldn't be an issue. I wish all parties involved come up with a solution and push Congestion pricing back until at least 2025.

 

 

[texassubwayfan555]

What is congestion pricing and how will it affect the subway?

[Kamen Rider]

Basically a once a day toll to enter Manhattan south of 59th street, to encourage people to take public transit. The collected money would be used to fund transit improvements.

 

London has had one for years now.

[Lawrence St]

8 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

There is currently no problem with lacking spare trains… because there aren’t enough people available to run them. 

 

We’re still short hundreds of train operators and conductors. Hell, the current conductor’s list will be used at least until 2024, 8 years after the test was given. Just imagine that… like applying for a job on your first day of high school and starting the day you graduate college.

And that's partially the problem. A test, given 8 years ago, is still being used to try and fill in the gap of hundreds of positions, instead of just making a new one and calling off both exams. 

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And that's partially the problem. A test, given 8 years ago, is still being used to try and fill in the gap of hundreds of positions, instead of just making a new one and calling off both exams. 

If those exams weren't offered once every decade, then things might be different. They are given way too infrequently that many people are looking into other jobs. Some people even forget that they took the test and by the time they're called back they're at a different point in their life or engaged in another profession. If the test were offered more often, maybe it could help alleviate the work-life balance component to the job that  employees often mention. Sometimes I wonder if the management in RTO is concerned more about keeping trains moving than the health of their employees. It's not productive to overwork your people into the ground for decades on end. Have more people come onboard and change the narrative to help foster a healthy environment where people can breathe. These men and women operate these trains moving millions and come to work on 2 hours of sleep. The  should care, but they don't, because they know there'll be more people on line to replace them. I give it to those who work for them, because some of them put up with A LOT and remain positive. That's respectable!

Edited October 19, 2022 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[texassubwayfan555]

Does anyone here support congestion charges?

Also, a bunch of people from this site would love to fill those missing train operator and conductor positions.

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

If those exams weren't offered once every decade things might be different. They are way too infrequent that many people are looking into other jobs. Some people even forget that they took the test and by the time they're called back they're at a different point in their life.

But that’s MTA’s fault for doing it that way. They can’t complain they have a shortage and not do everything possible to try and mitigate it.

[RandomRider0101]

This is all very interesting. The thing about the MTA exam is a new thing I'm learning about; shows just how bad the  is at decision-making.

I absolutely agree that congestion pricing should be pushed back; is it really necessary to overwhelm the system at a time when there's already a crew shortage (in large caused by the MTA's poor decision-making).

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Does anyone here support congestion charges?

Also, a bunch of people from this site would love to fill those missing train operator and conductor positions.

I think people would only be in support of it if the  stops screwing around and is on top of the many issues they've ignored. Congestion charges needs to wait until the  stops being a bunch of incompetent bunch of... I'm going to stop myself from finishing that sentence, but I think you get the idea. 

[texassubwayfan555]

How can we as citizens try to fix the  ?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

It's not productive to overwork your people into the ground for decades on end. Have more people come onboard and change the narrative to help foster a healthy environment where people can breathe. These men and women operate these trains moving millions and come to work on 2 hours of sleep. 

Who is coming to work on two hours of sleep? That's just not true.

[JustTheSIR]

Question: I got on an R68 in married pairs a few days ago at Cortlandt running on the W

if they had to run it on a 10 car train how would it work, would the conductor have a half cab and have to operate it like an older SMEE or are they never allowed to run as 10 car trains, or would the door controls be split into 4 and 6?

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Who is coming to work on two hours of sleep? That's just not true.

Plenty of people who work in transit do. When you work 12+ hour days and live 2 hours away from work it happens, especially if you have children or other commitments outside of work. My point is that many of these people are overworked because of the militaristic way that RTO oversees their workforce... You can't be getting enough sleep at night when you're gone 18 hours a day and have responsibilities outside of work... work-life balance in a nutshell... You just can't speak for everyone and tell me that's not true.

Edited October 20, 2022 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, JustTheSIR said:

Question: I got on an R68 in married pairs a few days ago at Cortlandt running on the W

if they had to run it on a 10 car train how would it work, would the conductor have a half cab and have to operate it like an older SMEE or are they never allowed to run as 10 car trains, or would the door controls be split into 4 and 6?

The R68 and R68As are linked in permanent four car sets. IIRC the Franklin Shuttle 68s are singles. 

 

I can understand how ppl get confused cause some of the unused  cabs in the 68/68A cars are full width.

 

They never would allow an 10 car 75ft consist to run in passenger service. They might be able to run an 10 car 75FT consist in yard moves but never in revenue service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

58 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Plenty of people who work in transit do. When you work 12+ hour days and live 2 hours away from work it happens, especially if you have children or other commitments outside of work. My point is that many of these people are overworked because of the militaristic way that RTO oversees their workforce... You can't be getting enough sleep at night when you're gone 18 hours a day and have responsibilities outside of work... work-life balance in a nutshell... You just can't speak for everyone and tell me that's not true.

Anyone working 12+ days is doing so because they want to or they want OT. Are there people that work that long? Sure (it's not uncommon, even outside of the  (I've done it plenty of times myself), but to make it sound like the  is engaging in some sort of slave labor is just absurd, and yes I know it is difficult to get days off and sick days, etc. I say this as someone who has had relatives that worked lots of OT and worked for the . Yes, they were married with kids, worked OT and definitely slept more than two hours.  That is a choice more than anything. 

I've also known plenty of people that loved working OT and took whatever hours they could. One person I knew stayed in NYC during the week so they could work longer, as they lived in another State. There is also supposed to be a certain amount of time that workers go before they are out and about working again to avoid such situations, so if there are people doing that, that's on them. Then you have people that are adamant about doing their shift and nothing more. That said, no one forces anyone to take any job. Anyone taking a job with long hours knows what the deal is beforehand, just as I work long hours in my job. That's what it requires and it's no secret that the  can be long hours as well.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JustTheSIR]

20 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

The R68 and R68As are linked in permanent four car sets. IIRC the Franklin Shuttle 68s are singles. 

 

I can understand how ppl get confused cause some of the unused  cabs in the 68/68A cars are full width.

 

They never would allow an 10 car 75ft consist to run in passenger service. They might be able to run an 10 car 75FT consist in yard moves but never in revenue service.

Oh I’m a dumbass that’s right

i forgot they were 75 feet instead of the 63’ NTTs

[Calvin]

The R188 5-car units, 7361-7365 that runs on the Flushing  line has the Mets wrap removed. It's currently getting a new exterior wrap that involves a new Playstation  game release: God of War Ragnarök . 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Calvin

[texassubwayfan555]

42 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

the 63’ NTTs

B division NTTs are only 60 feet long.