RailBus63 Posted November 20, 2011 Share #51 Posted November 20, 2011 Spotted today near the Syracuse transportation center - not sure what it was doing there or where it was going (it had an Indiana temporary plate in the windshield - going to or from Cummins, perhaps?): Jim D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted November 20, 2011 Share #52 Posted November 20, 2011 Spotted today near the Syracuse transportation center - not sure what it was doing there or where it was going (it had an Indiana temporary plate in the windshield - going to or from Cummins, perhaps?): Jim D. That an O7 3G, it was probably in the process of being delivered to Zerega... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted November 20, 2011 Share #53 Posted November 20, 2011 Its crazy there up to 7019... that means there could 20 of these buses could already be built! Whenever these buses come into service there probably gonna flood CAS routes like C40s did @ CP. If the order starts real soon, its gonna be interesting how they handle this @ UP as they would have train their B/Os on two new fleets at the same time (The 4800s and the 3G). I would'nt be surprised if the swapped QV & UP place in this order just for that reason. As QV ran NGs for a brief period earlier this year. As far as I know, UP hasn't even started training B/Os on the New Flyers, as everyone's photos of 4816, its sitting in the same spot in the front of the depot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarsie Guy Posted November 20, 2011 Share #54 Posted November 20, 2011 I think the MTA is makin a mistake Orions are a joke now. In more citys then just New York I have watched the C40/D/DE 40 outdone the 07. U seen more city go back to New Flyer after the 1999 V's it went downhill from there. Ang the CNG 07 are already showin there age quick without a top tier or very good maintence team . You are screwed Big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted November 20, 2011 Share #55 Posted November 20, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted November 20, 2011 Share #56 Posted November 20, 2011 I think the MTA is makin a mistake Orions are a joke now. In more citys then just New York I have watched the C40/D/DE 40 outdone the 07. U seen more city go back to New Flyer after the 1999 V's it went downhill from there. Ang the CNG 07 are already showin there age quick without a top tier or very good maintence team . You are screwed Big time. What data are you basing such a sweeping pronouncement on? You can't simply go by sales numbers - New Flyer has bid very aggressively in recent years and has been willing to forgo a certain amount of profitability to gain market share. The Orion VII EPA10 scored very highly in its most recent Altoona test and multiple cities have gone back to Orion for repeat purchases of the O7. I don't get why some bus fans feel the need to pick their favorite models and take sides. Orion, New Flyer and NovaBus all build good heavy-duty buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share #57 Posted November 20, 2011 What data are you basing such a sweeping pronouncement on? You can't simply go by sales numbers - New Flyer has bid very aggressively in recent years and has been willing to forgo a certain amount of profitability to gain market share. The Orion VII EPA10 scored very highly in its most recent Altoona test and multiple cities have gone back to Orion for repeat purchases of the O7. I don't get why some bus fans feel the need to pick their favorite models and take sides. Orion, New Flyer and NovaBus all build good heavy-duty buses. That is true. The Orion VII 3G has the best Altoona test record of any bus to date. So far I haven't heard any complaints at all from the operators that have them. And yes New Flyer has been selling buses well below the profit margin lately. For example, MTA's XD40's are only $430k each. Whereas the other test buses are al least $10k more per unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted November 20, 2011 Share #58 Posted November 20, 2011 I don't get why some bus fans feel the need to pick their favorite models and take sides. Orion, New Flyer and NovaBus all build good heavy-duty buses. I'm picking the New Flyer just because their test buses have the Allison transmission. Wheres, these 90 3G have the ZF transmission, the same tranny in most of the MTA's LFS. which is very jerky and they will most likely be jerky in the new Orions too. I'm pretty if Orion or Nova wins this test they will most likely have that crappy transmission. IMO, one of the nicest things about those 17/1800 NG CNGs over in LIB is how smooth they run... as they have the ISL/Allison power train rather than the ISL/ZF. TBH, if all the test fleet buses had the ISL/Allison powertrain I wouldn't care who wins! I agree all three of them make good buses, I would even go far as to say I'd rather the TA order 3g hybrids rather than Diesel 3g with ZF transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted November 21, 2011 Share #59 Posted November 21, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmouse Posted November 21, 2011 Share #60 Posted November 21, 2011 I thought it was only me. That's the only thing I hate is the use of these jerky ZF Trannies. When I read all 90 3Gs were ZF I was not so pleased. When I think of Orion I think of an Allison B400R. TTC got their 3Gs with Alllison B400Rs. As why in the hell we chose all 90 ZFs is beyond me. The Allisons are so much smoother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share #61 Posted November 21, 2011 The 3G's have officially started delivery. 7004 & 7006 are at Queens Village. 7005, and 7007 are on the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtNovaBusRTS9369 Posted November 21, 2011 Share #62 Posted November 21, 2011 The 3G's have officially started delivery. 7004 & 7006 are at Queens Village. 7005, and 7007 are on the way Looks like QV's first again...just as I predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted November 22, 2011 Share #63 Posted November 22, 2011 oh ok, hee.... WHAT!!!!!!!! THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!! Ok where's 7002/7003??? oh never mind. (First I rode both XD40 and C40LF in Queens and now this.... what a day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted November 22, 2011 Share #64 Posted November 22, 2011 Spotted today near the Syracuse transportation center - not sure what it was doing there or where it was going (it had an Indiana temporary plate in the windshield - going to or from Cummins, perhaps?): Jim D. I contract for the company that delivers Orion's from the plant, most drivers get a transport plate out of Indiana, I think they are most common, a driver living anywhere would get these plates (in fact I have a set in my bag :cool: ) . It does seem odd that bus would be in Syracuse considering where the bus is made and where it was going, Syracuse does seem out of the way. Although the office that handles this account is based out of Cortland, NY... Maybe the bus was heading to that location? Many drivers on this account also live in the Cortland area, Syracuse would be on the way (or maybe the driver lives near Syracuse?)... Maybe the driver was heading home so they could spend the night at home after picking up the bus instead of having to pay for a hotel if he ran out of hours on the way down to the city? Just a thought, I don't know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarsie Guy Posted November 22, 2011 Share #65 Posted November 22, 2011 What data are you basing such a sweeping pronouncement on? You can't simply go by sales numbers - New Flyer has bid very aggressively in recent years and has been willing to forgo a certain amount of profitability to gain market share. The Orion VII EPA10 scored very highly in its most recent Altoona test and multiple cities have gone back to Orion for repeat purchases of the O7. I don't get why some bus fans feel the need to pick their favorite models and take sides. Orion, New Flyer and NovaBus all build good heavy-duty buses. That like saying the rings the lakers have don't matter. Please show me the citys that have order the 3G beside the MTA which is only 90. The XD has already came out the gate strong with that said I'm willing to listen to a valid point. I think Nova & NF puts Orion to shame in the 20th century we are not in the 90's anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princelex Posted November 22, 2011 Share #66 Posted November 22, 2011 The 3G's have officially started delivery. 7004 & 7006 are at Queens Village. 7005, and 7007 are on the way OMG it's on and poppin now!!! Bring them bad boys on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted November 22, 2011 Share #67 Posted November 22, 2011 Um, I guess 7005 and 7007 are next to arrive to QV???? Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIR North Shore Posted November 22, 2011 Share #68 Posted November 22, 2011 It's good to see QV get those buses first. Those Orion CNGs they have on Q46 are the worst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtNovaBusRTS9369 Posted November 22, 2011 Share #69 Posted November 22, 2011 It's good to see QV get those buses first. Those Orion CNGs they have on Q46 are the worst... QV doesn't have CNG's. Those buses you were talking about are Orion VII OG Hybrids. The tank on top of them is a Battery Pack. Add: BTW, I saw the Orion VII 3G #7005 & another 700X at Springfield this afternooon. I assume that they'll begin training if not already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted November 22, 2011 Share #70 Posted November 22, 2011 Wow I didnt think a double delievery would ever happen!!!! Ulmers next!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share #71 Posted November 25, 2011 That like saying the rings the lakers have don't matter. Please show me the citys that have order the 3G beside the MTA which is only 90. The XD has already came out the gate strong with that said I'm willing to listen to a valid point. I think Nova & NF puts Orion to shame in the 20th century we are not in the 90's anymore. I know of 11 agencies off the top of my head that have taken delivery or ordered the 3G. Novas sales don't even match Orions, and the Xcelsior has suffered quite a few build quality issues since its introduction. IIRC, it also has the worst Altoona record of any New Flyer product to date! The bus has come a long way, but it ain't all that! It has potential to be the best of the best, but that remains to be seen at this time. It's also very likely MTA's Xcelsiors will be the best ever built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob3737 Posted November 25, 2011 Share #72 Posted November 25, 2011 The New Flyer XD is ten times better than the LFS and I doubt the Orion will be able to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share #73 Posted November 25, 2011 The New Flyer XD is ten times better than the LFS and I doubt the Orion will be able to compare. It's Altoona record is 10 times worse than Nova's! Lol. Well, not that bad! But it definitely is not good! I'm talking from a maintenance and operational standpoint. Not operator view point. It may be the best looking bus on the road, but looks aren't everything at all! Based solely on Altoona test data, and individual agency records, the Orion VII is ahead of the Xcelsior, which has yet to prove itself as a great bus. Both the Xcelsior and new Orion VII have only been in service for 1 year. So we won't be able to make a realtime assessment until 2018-2022 anyway. Both buses have some proving to do. The Xcelsior just has a bit more proving to do than the Orion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmouse Posted November 25, 2011 Share #74 Posted November 25, 2011 It's Altoona record is 10 times worse than Nova's! Lol. Well, not that bad! But it definitely is not good! I'm talking from a maintenance and operational standpoint. Not operator view point. It may be the best looking bus on the road, but looks aren't everything at all! Based solely on Altoona test data, and individual agency records, the Orion VII is ahead of the Xcelsior, which has yet to prove itself as a great bus. Both the Xcelsior and new Orion VII have only been in service for 1 year. So we won't be able to make a realtime assessment until 2018-2022 anyway. Both buses have some proving to do. The Xcelsior just has a bit more proving to do than the Orion. When we say bad, is this saying the Fuel economy/mileage, low MDBF or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share #75 Posted November 25, 2011 When we say bad, is this saying the Fuel economy/mileage, low MDBF or what? The Xcelsior fuel economy is great. Build quality and MDBF need to improve. They have had problems with leaking roofs and windows, broken airbags, suspension issues, air leaks, broken brackets, windows separating from the seal, cracked rear H-Beam, and a few electrical issues. I assume most of these issues have been addressed. As far as the O7 3G, the issues reported include the auxiliary heater leaking coolant, front shock wear, and upper radius rods wearing (which is common in all buses). Cummins also reworked a sensor, the wheelchair ramp basically had to be re-mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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