news R Train’s Brooklyn-Manhattan tunnel closes for 14 months starting Friday

[Harry]

 

The 14-month closure of the train's Montague St. tunnel begins Friday night, forcing an estimated 65,000 daily subway riders to switch to other routes. The Brooklyn-Manhattan tunnel needs to be completely overhauled because of damage caused by Super Storm Sandy. Tracks, signals, power cables and other equipment were submerged in 20 feet of corrosive salt water for 10 days. On weekdays, the train will run in two sections: from Forest Hills-71st Street, Queens, to Whitehall St., Manhattan; and from Court St. to Bay Ridge-95th St., Brooklyn. Riders will have to transfer to one of 11 alternate routes available at the last four stations in Brooklyn before the tunnel. The is not adding additional service to those lines.

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[Eric B]

And the 95th st. half is using R160's (from the ).

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

No surprise that the hasn't put more service on the other lines for the Montague St closure. People tend to take the just to connect to other subway routes for the most part.

[peacemak3r]

There goes my easy transfer ride to Lower Manhattan...now to either deal with the nonsense with the and the into Lower Manhattan or take the longer bus ride to the then to the for me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There goes my easy transfer ride to Lower Manhattan...now to either deal with the nonsense with the and the into Lower Manhattan or take the longer bus ride to the then to the for me.

Well there is the BM3 for ya... 

[IRT Bronx Express]

Well there is the BM3 for ya... 

Easy for you since you ride express buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Easy for you since you ride express buses.

lol... And just imagine that my commute may be changing soon if things work out with even more convenient express bus service. 

[peacemak3r]

No, VG8 is right, I've been contemplating my change from subways to using the BM3 for awhile, but it just doesn't seem worth it since I have so many subway choices over Staten's bus choices.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, VG8 is right, I've been contemplating my change from subways to using the BM3 for awhile, but it just doesn't seem worth it since I have so many subway choices over Staten's bus choices.

Well I may be giving up MetroNorth as I plan on making a move so that would leave me with just the express buses to choose from, but the commute would be even more convenient than it is now so you have to look at your pluses and minuses, but with one quick transfer I could still have MetroNorth access I guess.

[Guest Lance]

Wait, don't tell me you're leaving Riverdale.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wait, don't tell me you're leaving Riverdale.

Of course not... New job more than likely... 

[m7zanr160s]

OK, I'm not understanding that Daily News picture at all. It looks as if those people just got off the train but that's the end of the station and the train is almost completely out. LOL They look as if they're coming from the tunnel, or they got keyed out of the last car. What is going on there!? Am I trippin?'

[CenSin]

On the MTA site: http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/R_14monthMontagueTunnelClosure.htm (PDF map)

 

 

It looks like I'm going to enjoy this service change as I can hit the go to the gym at night without worrying about getting slow tunnel service back to Brooklyn.

[ACEVE14]

There's also an updated version of both the and Train Timetables in the MTA website. Here are the links:

 

http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/tncur.pdf

http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/trcur.pdf

[realizm]

OK, I'm not understanding that Daily News picture at all. It looks as if those people just got off the train but that's the end of the station and the train is almost completely out. LOL They look as if they're coming from the tunnel, or they got keyed out of the last car. What is going on there!? Am I trippin?'

To me, it looks more like the commuters were in an attempt to wait for the Daily News photographers with the ancillary equipment (flash, tripod, high tech camera, etc etc, the press are permitted to use such equipment as per the NYPD who isues special permits for the press) to make the shot before they leave the platform as a respectful courtesy.

[QM1to6Ave]

And the 95th st. half is using R160's (from the ).

What's the rationale behind making this switch with the equipment? I'd have thought the R46's would stay on the and the 160's would stay on the

[AndrewJC]

What's the rationale behind making this switch with the equipment? I'd have thought the R46's would stay on the and the 160's would stay on the

 

There are no shops easily accessible to the Brooklyn R that work with R46's. There is a shop (Coney Island) fairly easily accessible to the Brooklyn R that works with R160's.

[RtrainBlues]

There is a much-needed weekday service increase towards Bay Ridge between 9pm and 10:55pm.  Trains will come every 10 minutes without delays from Court St, rather than every 12 minutes with frequent major delays from Forest Hills.  No more half hour waits for a train at that hour (or at any time of the day for that matter.) 

 

Wow, and no more 20 minute headways at Times Square between 10:30pm and 11:10pm on the last 3 Bay Ridge-bound R trains of the night on Saturdays/Sundays. We get trains at roughly 10 to 12 minute headways at that hour, like it should be.

 

I still can't express how happy I am at the thought of regular 10 minute headways on a line that is notorious for half-hour waits, so much so that almost the entire platform usually abandons the 59th St platform after 9pm from an N express and walks the rest of the way to Bay Ridge.  Hopefully this project will take a lot longer than planned so we have several years of this major improvement in service.

[LRG]

There is a much-needed weekday service increase towards Bay Ridge between 9pm and 10:55pm.  Trains will come every 10 minutes without delays from Court St, rather than every 12 minutes with frequent major delays from Forest Hills.  No more half hour waits for a train at that hour (or at any time of the day for that matter.) 

 

Wow, and no more 20 minute headways at Times Square between 10:30pm and 11:10pm on the last 3 Bay Ridge-bound R trains of the night on Saturdays/Sundays. We get trains at roughly 10 to 12 minute headways at that hour, like it should be.

 

I still can't express how happy I am at the thought of regular 10 minute headways on a line that is notorious for half-hour waits, so much so that almost the entire platform usually abandons the 59th St platform after 9pm from an N express and walks the rest of the way to Bay Ridge.  Hopefully this project will take a lot longer than planned so we have several years of this major improvement in service.

 

Eh, I wouldn't go that far in saying this grievance should last any longer than it has to, but with the reopening of the tunnels next year, hopefully train service sees some improvement in terms of frequency somewhat.

[RollOver]

Many people dislike the because its unreliable and doesn't run as often as scheduled, and also operates very slowly.

 

I still think there are other factors that should be taken. For instance, the frequency of the other two Broadway services can actually delay the between the 60th Street tube and 34th Street-Herald Square on the Broadway line. It also shares tracks with the on Queens Boulevard. Plus, its also another longer line. So the longer the line, the more problems there will be on the way like for example, signals problems, police investigation, rail condition, track work etc etc.

 

I still wish there was a way to make this line better in the future and I wish it was also fought for sometimes too. Like the , I feel that its neglected and needs all the help it gets. I won't mind if the comes back, but I'm 100% sure it will cause the same problems the is doing today like for example, the 34th Street-Herald Square station and the 60th Street tube. If service on all three Broadway lines can be increased from a train every ten minutes to a train every six minutes during the midday and evening periods then I don't see why not...and with that headway, the IMO can pretty sure handle ridership on 28th, 23rd, 8th and Prince Streets and the can go express again between 34th and Canal Street on weekdays and/or weekends.

[Abba]

A train every 6 minutes would be too much.think it would delay the line too much.

[realizm]

Many people dislike the because its unreliable and doesn't run as often as scheduled, and also operates very slowly.

 

I still think there are other factors that should be taken. For instance, the frequency of the other two Broadway services can actually delay the between the 60th Street tube and 34th Street-Herald Square on the Broadway line. It also shares tracks with the on Queens Boulevard. Plus, its also another longer line. So the longer the line, the more problems there will be on the way like for example, signals problems, police investigation, rail condition, track work etc etc.

 

I still wish there was a way to make this line better in the future and I wish it was also fought for sometimes too. Like the , I feel that its neglected and needs all the help it gets. I won't mind if the comes back, but I'm 100% sure it will cause the same problems the is doing today like for example, the 34th Street-Herald Square station and the 60th Street tube. If service on all three Broadway lines can be increased from a train every ten minutes to a train every six minutes during the midday and evening periods then I don't see why not...and with that headway, the IMO can pretty sure handle ridership on 28th, 23rd, 8th and Prince Streets and the can go express again between 34th and Canal Street on weekdays and/or weekends.

 

If I'm correct the dispatchers were able to retain the weekday frequency at 10 TPH on the Manhattan side of the line, with 7-8 TPH on the Brooklyn side of the line according to the latest timetable of the line. Pre Montague Tube Shutdown, pre Chrystie Cut reroute the ( M ) train was running @ 6 TPH. On weekends when the runs over the Manny B the trains are running @ 7 TPH (Ouch!).

 

The Train in Brooklyn is substandard, (Which was why we previously had the supplemental ( M ) service to compensate making local 4th Ave service to a total of a measly 14 TPH. On top of that because of capacity limits @ 95th Street in terms of turnarounds, the MTA dispatchers have decided to have Whitehall Street as the last stop on the now defunct . That's the problem that the dispatchers face with increasing TPH on the as much as it is obviously needed. So yeah catch 22.

 

There are two major reasons IMHO and to the best of my knowledge, why the is do damn slow. First the Bay Ridge 95th Street Station can only apparently handle the turnarounds of trains @ 10 TPH at the max. Keep in mind that 95th Street/Bay Ridge was originally meant to be a 4 track station in anticipation of the SI tunnel connection @ 59th. The BMT Bay Ridge line was therefore provisioned to become a 4 track line by the Dual Contract planners. Mayor Hylan (i.e IND, early 20th Century era politics and Second System plans) killed that idea, that's for another discussion.

 

Second the tight and unusual curves necessitating timers along the local tracks in Brooklyn (Very odd contrast to the 4th Ave expresses that can hit 50MPH easy between 36th and Pacific!) and Manhattan in particular between Whitehall and Canal with the horribly steep curves under the financial district all slow down the line to the moving speed of frozen molasses during a blizzard.

 

As background info from the history books: That downtown Manhattan spur to Whitehall was built that way during the Dual Contracts because of issues with property acquisition rights forcing engineers to dig the tunnels along the street grids, instead of producing tunnels with adequate ergonomically correct curves allowing for trains at higher speeds.

 

In short the line is a mess because of all of these factors. It is what it is.

[AndrewJC]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far in saying this grievance should last any longer than it has to, but with the reopening of the tunnels next year, hopefully train service sees some improvement in terms of frequency somewhat.

 

Don't count on it. Peak loads on the R were well within guidelines before the shutdown began. It's hard to justify increasing service on the R when other lines are already significantly more crowded.

 

Given its length and its relative complexity (in terms of merges with other lines), the R can be fairly unreliable. The incessant signal problems that have plagued the Montague Tube since Sandy have only made it worse, but perhaps, over the next 14 months, some strategies can be found to improve reliability when the full R comes back.

[RtrainBlues]

They always "single out" the R for the worst headways.  But not for the next 14 months.  Everything has been equalized.  Fairness has finally come to the R train frequencies for 14 months.   (Every single day of the week after 9pm, the D, N, Q, and (weekday) B trains ran at greater frequencies than the R train.  An extra 2 to 5 minutes headway on the R is something you really feel, especially when there are notorious delays.  They don't care about the R train - never did, never will.  Once the 14 months are up, they'll go back to the same horrible headways as before unless people complain to their congresspeople.  Enjoy the next 14 months without delays and with increased evening frequencies!!)

[NewFlyer 230]

They always "single out" the R for the worst headways. But not for the next 14 months. Everything has been equalized. Fairness has finally come to the R train frequencies for 14 months. (Every single day of the week after 9pm, the D, N, Q, and (weekday) B trains ran at greater frequencies than the R train. An extra 2 to 5 minutes headway on the R is something you really feel, especially when there are notorious delays. They don't care about the R train - never did, never will. Once the 14 months are up, they'll go back to the same horrible headways as before unless people complain to their congresspeople. Enjoy the next 14 months without delays and with increased evening frequencies!!)

Will the run to Forest Hills during the late night hours between 12-5AM. When the goes back to normal they should at least have the run to Forest Hills everyday.