Five Years of New South Ferry Station

[Lance]

Well, 3.5 if we're really counting, but today marks the five year anniversary of the opening of Transit's newest station, South Ferry. The milestone also marked the (temporary) end of service on the older loop platform at South Ferry since the new station can platform two full-length trains as opposed to one half-length train on the loop. Alas, due to Hurricane Sandy and the depth of the new station, the new platform was pretty much destroyed by the incoming torrent of water that poured in from the ground above. The loop station was reactivated in last April while the new station is rebuilt. Below are a few shots of the new station on opening day.

 

 

 

 

[Missabassie]

Damn shame... All that money, and they still didn't build it right.

 

Or rather they didn't plan for the unexpected. Hell, I never woulda thought that'd happen either...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I've never been in the "new" station at South Ferry before, but the new station is gonna be fixed or something, correct?

[Minato ku]

It is true that the protections against floods were lacking.

It is not like they didn't expected floods, I see that this entrance is at a higher height that the street level.

[Fresh Pond]

Think of new South Ferry as a bath tub. Since its a dead end terminal, the water had nowhere to go compared to old South Ferry where it just spilled over to the Joralemon tubes and up 7 Av. Old South Ferry had little damage while new South Ferry just filled up to the top.

[bobtehpanda]

It is true that the protections against floods were lacking.

It is not like they didn't expected floods, I see that this entrance is at a higher height that the street level.

 

The entrances were properly sandbagged and blocked, but apparently debris broke through, leading to the flooding.

 

I've never been in the "new" station at South Ferry before, but the new station is gonna be fixed or something, correct?

 

Yep. They'll be moving the signal control room above ground as well.

[Cait Sith]

I remember this day quite well...the day where there were a few railfans arguing about who was the first/last to leave/enter the old/new stations, when Conductors were giving some folks the "the First Five Cars" posters and that new smell that was in the station at the time. It was quite an experience to be a part of something historic.

[YankeesPwnMets]

Damn shame... All that money, and they still didn't build it right.

 

Or rather they didn't plan for the unexpected. Hell, I never woulda thought that'd happen either...

I don't think any NYer in his/her right mind at that time would have expected a storm like Sandy. I'm not gonna lie... I thought Manhattan was invincible from storm surge simply because I could never fathom a hurricane getting anywhere near us

[NewFlyer 230]

I cant believe it wad that long ago. Well at least the old South Ferry Station was still intact. Is it ever possible for the to terminate at the old South Ferry when the new one fixed?

[peacemak3r]

I don't think any NYer in his/her right mind at that time would have expected a storm like Sandy. I'm not gonna lie... I thought Manhattan was invincible from storm surge simply because I could never fathom a hurricane getting anywhere near us

 

This.

 

Damn shame... All that money, and they still didn't build it right.

 

Or rather they didn't plan for the unexpected. Hell, I never woulda thought that'd happen either...

 

I'm sure it was built right.

 

It's like 'YankessPwnMets' stated, no New Yorker would really expect damages of that magnitude from Super Storm Sandy. We're in the type of region where we would rarely see floods in general.

 

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Might as well put this in too, I frequent Lower Manhattan a lot and I have never been to the new station....ever.

[Art Vandelay]

The station had a river flowing through it a week before it opened...

[Minato ku]

The entrances were properly sandbagged and blocked, but apparently debris broke through, leading to the flooding.

Sandbags and wooden panels, this is not what I call a serious protection against floods.

I was thinking of something like big waterproof doors, the lack of those doors is understandable for old subway stations but not for a station built during the 2000's.

 

Anyway we can't rewrite the past, what's done is done, what matter now is the future.

[Fresh Pond]

I remember this day quite well...the day where there were a few railfans arguing about who was the first/last to leave/enter the old/new stations, when Conductors were giving some folks the "the First Five Cars" posters and that new smell that was in the station at the time. It was quite an experience to be a part of something historic.

Camacho...

[Union Tpke]

I like the loop station better, and I would personally like but would not happen is that when the new station is open to have 9 local service from Dyre Av to Loop via 7 Av local

 

 

Using Tapatalk

 

 

[MTA Bus]

The last time I went to the new South Ferry was when the was going there due to a G.O. i can't believe that's has been that long.

[Wallyhorse]

I cant believe it wad that long ago. Well at least the old South Ferry Station was still intact. Is it ever possible for the to terminate at the old South Ferry when the new one fixed?

 

Problem is, with the running to Brooklyn most of the time now, you would need to revive the old BG-SF shuttle and rebuild the short platform at BG (with new stairways and ADA accessibility at BG and possibly more at old SF) to make that happen (with the then likely extended to old SF late nights if that were to actually happen).  This was well discussed previously.

[Lance]

Once again, there's no need for the revival of the inner loop platform at South Ferry.

[Union Tpke]

Use the outer platform

 

 

Using Tapatalk

 

 

[Fresh Pond]

I cant believe it wad that long ago. Well at least the old South Ferry Station was still intact. Is it ever possible for the to terminate at the old South Ferry when the new one fixed?

It's possible, but would be useless...

 

Let's say hypothetically speaking, the new station opens tomorrow and all trains go to new SF. trains turn around in the old loop anyway and could theoretically use the outer loop as a terminal since the switches allow for it to use either loop then go back up Lex. Plus it won't be in the way of trains since they will be using the new station.

 

Now here's the problem...

 

The whole point of new SF was to render old SF obsolete (which it did). You would literally be dumping the problems the had at the loop (first 5 cars and whatnot) onto the . Also, you would have 2 South Ferry stations and you know the average NY'er isn't all that good in the common sense department. Then you got in case of emergencies at new SF, where would the go without interfering with this new service pattern. 7 Av trains can only enter from the outer loop, while Lex trains can enter either loop.

 

Possible...yes

Practical...no

[PATCOman]

I've only been to the new station once-- on May 24 in that year.

[Snowblock]

Here's some trivia for all of you - I worked the very last revenue train which arrived at South Ferry Terminal before the subway was closed for the storm, which as of now is STILL the very last revenue train to operate into South Ferry Terminal! Conductor's car was #2221, we left 242 at 1910 and arrived at 2008 (the last station that we picked up customers was 14 St, all stations below that had already had their turnstiles turned off (would have been right about 2000), but customers did continue to exit my train all the way into SFT). We then operated that train lite out of the station and laid it up on one of the express tracks adjacent to 79-Bway. And I tell you, one of my most vivid memories of working at NYCT was that lite trip up, seeing every single subway station completely deserted of people!

Also, I still haven't been to the South Ferry loop since it reopened. For the rest of the Fall 2012 pick, we operated first to 14 St for a couple weeks, then lite from Rector (lite from Chambers originally) through the loop and back to Rector.

Problem is, with the running to Brooklyn most of the time now, you would need to revive the old BG-SF shuttle and rebuild the short platform at BG (with new stairways and ADA accessibility at BG and possibly more at old SF) to make that happen (with the then likely extended to old SF late nights if that were to actually happen).  This was well discussed previously.

That's gotta be at least 3 sips in the drinking game.

[Around the Horn]

It's possible, but would be useless...

 

Let's say hypothetically speaking, the new station opens tomorrow and all trains go to new SF. trains turn around in the old loop anyway and could theoretically use the outer loop as a terminal since the switches allow for it to use either loop then go back up Lex. Plus it won't be in the way of trains since they will be using the new station.

 

Now here's the problem...

 

The whole point of new SF was to render old SF obsolete (which it did). You would literally be dumping the problems the had at the loop (first 5 cars and whatnot) onto the . Also, you would have 2 South Ferry stations and you know the average NY'er isn't all that good in the common sense department. Then you got in case of emergencies at new SF, where would the go without interfering with this new service pattern. 7 Av trains can only enter from the outer loop, while Lex trains can enter either loop.

 

Possible...yes

Practical...no

Excellent explantion

[bobtehpanda]

Use the outer platform Using Tapatalk

 

Then you'd fall afoul of the ADA by using a non-compliant platform (not to mention, you'd be exposing the to the exact same delays the had at Old SF).

 

The entire point of building the New South Ferry was to make the station ADA compliant and allow ten-car boarding. Despite the construction hassles it faced, the station still largely achieved its goals. It added 7-8 TPH to the (1)'s capacity, if the MTA is to believed, dispensed with the need for gap fillers, and allowed for ten car boarding. In addition, making a connection from Bowling Green to the ferry is not difficult; I've done it before holding crates of wood and metal and still made it on time. Bringing back the loop for permanent service is just not a good idea.

[AndrewJC]

Here's some trivia for all of you - I worked the very last revenue train which arrived at South Ferry Terminal before the subway was closed for the storm, which as of now is STILL the very last revenue train to operate into South Ferry Terminal! Conductor's car was #2221, we left 242 at 1910 and arrived at 2008 (the last station that we picked up customers was 14 St, all stations below that had already had their turnstiles turned off (would have been right about 2000), but customers did continue to exit my train all the way into SFT). We then operated that train lite out of the station and laid it up on one of the express tracks adjacent to 79-Bway. And I tell you, one of my most vivid memories of working at NYCT was that lite trip up, seeing every single subway station completely deserted of people!

 

Also, I still haven't been to the South Ferry loop since it reopened. For the rest of the Fall 2012 pick, we operated first to 14 St for a couple weeks, then lite from Rector (lite from Chambers originally) through the loop and back to Rector.

 

That's gotta be at least 3 sips in the drinking game.

 

Very interesting - but I'm surprised nobody transferred to your train from the express at Chambers. I guess the last express might have met your leader.

 

The entire point of building the New South Ferry was to make the station ADA compliant and allow ten-car boarding. Despite the construction hassles it faced, the station still largely achieved its goals. It added 7-8 TPH to the (1)'s capacity, if the MTA is to believed, dispensed with the need for gap fillers, and allowed for ten car boarding. In addition, making a connection from Bowling Green to the ferry is not difficult; I've done it before holding crates of wood and metal and still made it on time. Bringing back the loop for permanent service is just not a good idea.

 

Capacity of the loop station: 21 tph

Capacity of the terminal station: 24 tph

 

Peak 1 train service frequency prior to 2009 (loop): 19 tph

Peak 1 train service frequency between 2009 and 2012 (terminal): 19 tph

Peak 1 train service frequency since 2013 (loop again): 19 tph

 

Where do you come up with 7-8 tph?

 

The entire point of building the New South Ferry was to take advantage of federal dollars earmarked for Lower Manhattan. Extending the platform and providing for ADA could have been accomplished at much lower cost by extending the platform north. The other advantages, while nice, were simply not worth the immense price tag. And, before it closed in 2009, the loop station had an enclosed connection to the ferry terminal.

[bobtehpanda]

Very interesting - but I'm surprised nobody transferred to your train from the express at Chambers. I guess the last express might have met your leader.

 

 

Capacity of the loop station: 21 tph

Capacity of the terminal station: 24 tph

 

Peak 1 train service frequency prior to 2009 (loop): 19 tph

Peak 1 train service frequency between 2009 and 2012 (terminal): 19 tph

Peak 1 train service frequency since 2013 (loop again): 19 tph

 

Where do you come up with 7-8 tph?

 

The entire point of building the New South Ferry was to take advantage of federal dollars earmarked for Lower Manhattan. Extending the platform and providing for ADA could have been accomplished at much lower cost by extending the platform north. The other advantages, while nice, were simply not worth the immense price tag. And, before it closed in 2009, the loop station had an enclosed connection to the ferry terminal.

 

This source has Horodniceanu saying that the previous capacity of the train line was 16-17 TPH.

 

I've heard that there was a plan to extend the platform north, but that got squashed once people found out the construction would have impacts on Battery Park. I have no idea if any of this stuff is actually true, but I wouldn't be surprised.