Will we ever see those Select Bus Service facts?

[Cait Sith]

Everything I said on the previous post made sense and its the TRUTH. Maybe you have trouble reading and comprehend what was being said. All I said was that Woodhaven/Cross Bay Blvds need SBS because the LTD routes get highly congested and people keep constantly entering the back due to this congestion of a route. So before you say something , understand what is being said first.

Excuse Me. It MIGHT go there or to LGA Depot when more XD60s arrive. That's a FACT.

 

You need to stop cutting school....using MIGHT and FACT in the same sentence is contradictory, therefore, is NOT a fact. The Q53 will most likely go back to LGA before it even goes to BP.....

 

Furthermore, everything you say is far from the truth....example, Q44 SBS at November 15th....and how Green Acres buses runs more often and gets a higher demand....

Nothing is a fact. IT's the MTA, remember? They constantly change their minds.

 

And chill the f**k out boii we're not fighting you, we just disagree with some of the stuff you're saying. No need to get all defensive...

 

He's just a kid, he'll learn....eventually.

Some of these youngin's take this stuff more seriously than the casual folks.

 

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

He's just a kid, he'll learn....eventually.

Some of these youngin's take this stuff more seriously than the casual folks.

 

A bit too seriously...

 

 

Also if someone does just miss a bus cause he has to pre-pay, there goes his 7 minute savings anyway. So someone who has to walk further and also misses his bus has a slower trip with SBS.

 

 

I'm only gonna use the Bx12 in this example since its the SBS route I use more often, but anyways, I sometimes feel like the whole ticket thing is useful at certain times yet disadvantageous at others. At 10th Ave (the Bx12 stop at the 207th Street station) it's useful since it's a highly used stop and it's much faster having people pre-pay than having them all pay on the bus, saving maybe 2-3 mins. However, let's say there's a bus at the stop and it's just about to leave. On any other non-SBS route, you could run up, knock on the door, and if the driver is nice he'll let you in. On an SBS route, although, it's pointless since if you see the bus, you would still have to pay at the stop, and by that time the bus will probably have left.

[B35 via Church]

SBS supporters are blinded by the fact that they support SBS and refuse to look at it objectively as you have done. All they know us is that they support it, it is good, and they don't want to hear anything to the contrary.

As I dub it, the "something new & different" craze......

 

When the hype dies down even more & SBS starts to become the norm in this city, I would still like to see those said optimists wax poetic the same way they are, and have been, when SBS first started running on our buses....

 

Personally, I still think some of these optimists are more allured/fascinated by the bright blue lights, the (updated) destination signage (which I still think is an eyesore; blue background behind the standard orange font); to sum it up, the technology behind it all, over the whole it saving time bit.... I really do.....

 

Hell, remember the hype over the "tv's" on the R160's.... Had you lost your common sense & gotten caught up in the euphoria, you'd have believed you'd have been able to watch wheel of fortune or pix11 news while riding the subway or something....

 

You're good (or seriously bored in engaging in all your anti-SBS writings).... I simply refuse to engage in futility with these optimists.

That last webpage you hotlinked about SBS possibly saving lives on Woodhaven.... smh.... Under that grand logic, SBS would be a damn good candidate for the Q60...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Plus how would merge with Rockaway (A)'s

 

They would probably end up replacing the Rockaway .

[BrooklynBus]

As I dub it, the "something new & different" craze......

 

When the hype dies down even more & SBS starts to become the norm in this city, I would still like to see those said optimists wax poetic the same way they are, and have been, when SBS first started running on our buses....

 

Personally, I still think some of these optimists are more allured/fascinated by the bright blue lights, the (updated) destination signage (which I still think is an eyesore; blue background behind the standard orange font); to sum it up, the technology behind it all, over the whole it saving time bit.... I really do.....

 

Hell, remember the hype over the "tv's" on the R160's.... Had you lost your common sense & gotten caught up in the euphoria, you'd have believed you'd have been able to watch wheel of fortune or pix11 news while riding the subway or something....

 

You're good (or seriously bored in engaging in all your anti-SBS writings).... I simply refuse to engage in futility with these optimists.

That last webpage you hotlinked about SBS possibly saving lives on Woodhaven.... smh.... Under that grand logic, SBS would be a damn good candidate for the Q60...

The SBS advocates will never admit they are wrong. They will just double talk their way out of any questions they are asked is SBS is ever proven to be a failure. And don't make jokes about the Q60. I believe that was one of the BRT routes proposed I think by Pratt after the Woodhaven BRT. Their justification other than making Woodhaven safer? Get this. To relieve overcrowding on the Queens Blvd IND. Need I say more? As for bus lanes causing congestion on Queens Blvd, why that is a good thing because if cars travel slower, fewer pedestrians get injured or killed. Utterly ridiculous. They would love it if the entire city slows to 5 mph. And the MTA just goes along because they get federal money for buses needing replacement. That's all they care about.

[MysteriousBtrain]

They would probably end up replacing the Rockaway .

I think he means in terms of track connections. There is no easy way to connect the abandoned section with the subway section without building a junction similar to Myrtle Avenue.

[NewFlyer 230]

Everything I said on the previous post made sense and its the TRUTH. Maybe you have trouble reading and comprehend what was being said. All I said was that Woodhaven/Cross Bay Blvds need SBS because the LTD routes get highly congested and people keep constantly entering the back due to this congestion of a route. So before you say something , understand what is being said first.

Excuse Me. It MIGHT go there or to LGA Depot when more XD60s arrive. That's a FACT.

What I don't get is why is everyone making a big deal out of the Q52/Q53 SBS. Nobody seemed to make a big deal out of the Q44 getting SBS.

Why do people want to see a subway line run along Woodhaven. The whole structure would need to be rebuilt, cars need to be orders, it would need to connect to the existing system. We don't even have the second Ave line yet so don't expect a Woodhaven Blvd line to be complete anytime soon. That is why SBS is good for now. Even though I still say the Q11 and Q53 alone on Woodhaven Blvd with more frequent would have been enough the MTA has added the Q21 and Q52 along Woodhaven so they are at least trying to improve service and SBS with artics is one step closer to offering the best service possible

[BrooklynBus]

What I don't get is why is everyone making a big deal out of the Q52/Q53 SBS. Nobody seemed to make a big deal out of the Q44 getting SBS.

Why do people want to see a subway line run along Woodhaven. The whole structure would need to be rebuilt, cars need to be orders, it would need to connect to the existing system. We don't even have the second Ave line yet so don't expect a Woodhaven Blvd line to be complete anytime soon. That is why SBS is good for now. Even though I still say the Q11 and Q53 alone on Woodhaven Blvd with more frequent would have been enough the MTA has added the Q21 and Q52 along Woodhaven so they are at least trying to improve service and SBS with artics is one step closer to offering the best service possible

Except for the fact that the Second Avenue subway costs $2 billion per mile and the three mile RBL would cost under $1 billion making it much more efficient to build. And as I stated there is no proof that BRT on Woodhaven would even be a net benefit when all roadway users are considered. We have to think of everyone, not only the bus riders. Someone from Riders Alliance stated that one of their members travels 2 hours to get from Woodhaven to Kings Highway. BRT would perhaps shave off ten minutes from that bus trip and double the time it takes to make that trip by car. Where is the net benefit. Utilizing the RBL and the LIRR Bay Ridge line would make a dramatic difference in that two hour trip.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Except for the fact that the Second Avenue subway costs $2 billion per mile and the three mile RBL would cost under $1 billion making it much more efficient to build. And as I stated there is no proof that BRT on Woodhaven would even be a net benefit when all roadway users are considered. We have to think of everyone, not only the bus riders. Someone from Riders Alliance stated that one of their members travels 2 hours to get from Woodhaven to Kings Highway. BRT would perhaps shave off ten minutes from that bus trip and double the time it takes to make that trip by car. Where is the net benefit. Utilizing the RBL and the LIRR Bay Ridge line would make a dramatic difference in that two hour trip.

I personally think Woodhaven Blvd should have more express bus service before any subway should be considered.  I was over there today tutoring and took the QM15 in, and the BM5 out and it's very quick to the city via the express bus.  From Forest Park Drive to Midtown it was all of 20 - 25 minutes.  Above Jamaica Avenue it's quite suburban and I don't think a subway is necessary.  If the LIRR were reactivated, that would be another good option, but I don't support a subway running through there and I don't think many homeowners would want one either.  Those along Woodhaven Blvd are definitely more car centric.

[BrooklynBus]

I personally think Woodhaven Blvd should have more express bus service before any subway should be considered.  I was over there today tutoring and took the QM15 in, and the BM5 out and it's very quick to the city via the express bus.  From Forest Park Drive to Midtown it was all of 20 - 25 minutes.  Above Jamaica Avenue it's quite suburban and I don't think a subway is necessary.  If the LIRR were reactivated, that would be another good option, but I don't support a subway running through there and I don't think many homeowners would want one either.  Those along Woodhaven Blvd are definitely more car centric.

The only problem with that is that Fifth and Madison are already overcrowded with express buses during peak hours and I would venture to guess itsn't that much better on Satudays but I do not know the times the bus lanes are in effect. I can only see more express buses on weekends if the bus lanes are expanded to weekends if they already are not in effect on weekends.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The only problem with that is that Fifth and Madison are already overcrowded with express buses during peak hours and I would venture to guess itsn't that much better on Satudays but I do not know the times the bus lanes are in effect. I can only see more express buses on weekends if the bus lanes are expanded to weekends if they already are not in effect on weekends.

Any expansion of express service on Woodhaven Blvd would be on the QM15, which runs via 6 Avenue. Madison is more free-flowing than 5th Avenue on Saturdays, but except the part around Rockerfeller, they don't have as many delays compared to weekdays.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The only problem with that is that Fifth and Madison are already overcrowded with express buses during peak hours and I would venture to guess itsn't that much better on Satudays but I do not know the times the bus lanes are in effect. I can only see more express buses on weekends if the bus lanes are expanded to weekends if they already are not in effect on weekends.

Yes, I'm thinking more about Saturday service.  I think the QM15 should get Sunday service for sure.  The BM5 should have more stops on Woodhaven, especially seeing how underutilized it is.  There were only about 8 of us total, and only about 5 when I got on along Woodhaven.  Two more people got on further up by 63rd Drive and that was it.  

[Around the Horn]

I think he means in terms of track connections. There is no easy way to connect the abandoned section with the subway section without building a junction similar to Myrtle Avenue.

You could always construct a new flyover track on the far right of the ROW.

Then have the (whatever your choice is...) switch to the two "express" tracks after Aqueduct (similar to the before/after Parkside Avenue)

 

Currently the Manhattan bound shifts over to what would be the Rockaways express track then begins to rise and meet the Liberty Av el.

 

Also any service on the RBB would most likely end at Howard Beach-JFK.

[BrooklynBus]

I am sure the high express bus fare also has something to do with the low ridership. They could have a well publicized "sale for the holidays" and cut the fare in half for several Saturdays. If ridership quadruples say, it wouldn't cost them anything. But that type of thinking is just to radical for the MTA.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yes, I'm thinking more about Saturday service. I think the QM15 should get Sunday service for sure. The BM5 should have more stops on Woodhaven, especially seeing how underutilized it is. There were only about 8 of us total, and only about 5 when I got on along Woodhaven. Two more people got on further up by 63rd Drive and that was it.

I agree. The 30 minute headways on Woodhaven Blvd only benefit the north. I would add two stops, one on Liberty Avenue, and one on Alderton Street. At most, 2 extra minutes would be added to the total BM5 runtime. Also, the BM5 on weekdays makes stops on Woodhaven Blvd before the first QM15 does, moreso in the north.

I am sure the high express bus fare also has something to do with the low ridership. They could have a well publicized "sale for the holidays" and cut the fare in half for several Saturdays. If ridership quadruples say, it wouldn't cost them anything. But that type of thinking is just to radical for the MTA.

I dont think that's as much of an issue as the fact that the MTA never mentions anything about the BM5 along Woodhaven. When the QM12 was diverted along trotting course lane in Forest Hills, the MTA said riders could use the QM15 at Woodhaven and Metro. However, where was the notice for the BM5, which is faster to Manhattan.

 

 

They never mentioned anything on buses or at stops that the BM5 was gonna make stops (at the select Woodhaven Blvd stops). When the Q52 originated, the MTA made sure riders knew it ran alongside the Q53 on Woodhaven/ Cross Bay. With the BM5, nothing was mentioned about it making the same stops and even faster service, especially if your origin is 42 Street and South.

 

The BM5 schedule gives no timepoints for any of the Queens Stops at all on the vus timetable. By now, I would've had it on the same timetable. They had the QM23 with the QM15 on the same timetable, I don't see why thwy cant have the BM5 amd the QM15 on the same timetable, given that they serve more of the same general areas. That, and the 2 added stops, I believe would boost ridership more. It may not be the biggest boost, but it is a start.

 

 

When SBS starts on Woodhaven, I have a feeling that the MTA will add more stops on the BM5, since at that point, they will all be using the same bus lanes.

[Art Vandelay]

To expand on a point brought up in the prior post:
The bus lanes for Woodhaven SBS, will certainly help far more than just the Q52 and Q53. Q11 Q21 QM15 QM16 QM17 and BM5 will all see substantial improvements in reliability. Cost recovery of the 4 express buses could easily go way up, and I rather expect it will, as ridership drastically increases. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To expand on a point brought up in the prior post:

The bus lanes for Woodhaven SBS, will certainly help far more than just the Q52 and Q53. Q11 Q21 QM15 QM16 QM17 and BM5 will all see substantial improvements in reliability. Cost recovery of the 4 express buses could easily go way up, and I rather expect it will, as ridership drastically increases. 

Cost recovery how??  What makes you think ridership would drastically increase on the QM15, QM16, QM17 and BM5.

[IAlam]

Cost recovery how??  What makes you think ridership would drastically increase on the QM15, QM16, QM17 and BM5.

the only way they can have cost recovery is by reduced run time and less gas wasted in traffic tbh if the local line get faster so does the express lines so there wouldn't be much of a change in what riders choose 

[DetSMART45]

Seeing all of these posts all of a sudden ... have to go back and digest each one.  But, overall, I still think the original question has still not been addressed.  After all, the post title is, "Will we ever see those SBS facts?" and everyone seems to be wanting to pee on a different spot outside of that fire hydrant.  Please ... let's bring the discussion back to this issue on this thread.

 

All of you SBS supporters, gird your loins, and be prepared for a rational, thought-out discussion regarding such.  Still "Wordpad"-ing this, but it'll make you think.  I'll bet there's a whole lot that many of you have not considered, although you're transit enthusiasts.

 

SBS is not the solver of your problems.  It lies in one verrrry simple idea:  RUN BUSES ON-TIME.  You're all falling into a trap called a smoke-screen.  Your "investments" will NEVER address the problems until this very basic one is tackled.

 

And those privy to MTA ears: Just maybe you should open them.  Your ridership has been calling, and all you do is run around with band-aids.  If you want to get "serious" about solving customer transport problems, if you fulfill the basics of your charter, things seems to flow a bit better.  Fare increases going down the same rabbit-holes would become a thing of the past.

 

I'm not a customer.  BUT if I were in your service area, I STILL would not be.  Except in the most dire of circumstances.

 

And THAT is pretty much what has become of mass transport in NYC -- from an "outsider" point of view.

 

THINK on that, before raking me over the coals for saying it.

As I dub it, the "something new & different" craze......

 

When the hype dies down even more & SBS starts to become the norm in this city, I would still like to see those said optimists wax poetic the same way they are, and have been, when SBS first started running on our buses....

 

Personally, I still think some of these optimists are more allured/fascinated by the bright blue lights, the (updated) destination signage (which I still think is an eyesore; blue background behind the standard orange font); to sum it up, the technology behind it all, over the whole it saving time bit.... I really do.....

 

Hell, remember the hype over the "tv's" on the R160's.... Had you lost your common sense & gotten caught up in the euphoria, you'd have believed you'd have been able to watch wheel of fortune or pix11 news while riding the subway or something....

 

You're good (or seriously bored in engaging in all your anti-SBS writings).... I simply refuse to engage in futility with these optimists.

That last webpage you hotlinked about SBS possibly saving lives on Woodhaven.... smh.... Under that grand logic, SBS would be a damn good candidate for the Q60...

If there wasn't an "AMEN" said to this, lots of you should check yourselves.  Totally spot-on.

 

Thanks for your insight, B35.

[DetSMART45]

Except for the fact that the Second Avenue subway costs $2 billion per mile and the three mile RBL would cost under $1 billion making it much more efficient to build. And as I stated there is no proof that BRT on Woodhaven would even be a net benefit when all roadway users are considered. We have to think of everyone, not only the bus riders. Someone from Riders Alliance stated that one of their members travels 2 hours to get from Woodhaven to Kings Highway. BRT would perhaps shave off ten minutes from that bus trip and double the time it takes to make that trip by car. Where is the net benefit. Utilizing the RBL and the LIRR Bay Ridge line would make a dramatic difference in that two hour trip.

^^^^^^^^ THIS.

 

REMEMBER:  "Trickle-Down" effect ......

Other customers outside of bus riders support local businesses.  If you make it harder for them (when they choose NOT to use MTA travel options because of being inconvienient/not reliable), you're going to affect all businesses in the area, and there goes that tax-base, which .... BTW ...... pays for MTA service through the area via property and payroll taxation.  Piss off enough business owners, you'll end up seeing the effects.

 

Employment goes down, revenues go down, less places for those precious bus riders to spend their money at while waiting for the unreliable bus service.

 

It IS cyclical.

[DetSMART45]

To expand on a point brought up in the prior post:

The bus lanes for Woodhaven SBS, will certainly help far more than just the Q52 and Q53. Q11 Q21 QM15 QM16 QM17 and BM5 will all see substantial improvements in reliability. Cost recovery of the 4 express buses could easily go way up, and I rather expect it will, as ridership drastically increases. 

Point to some such success stories.

 

We've got the same pie-in-the-sky ideas going around right now in my town.

 

As I've said before, Mr. "Art Vandelay", I live in an area that HATES the bus.  But, somehow, we're going to build a 3 mile TRAM and supposedly (according to some thinking straight out of Dorothy's ruby slippers) between 5,000 and 8,000 NON-public transit users are going to FLOCK to it everyday .... at the cost of over $1 MILLION per mile (and thanks, all of you NYC folks, you're helping support it through the Feds).  You can't even get those CAR drivers to use a bleeding city bus now and all of a sudden this "If we build it, they will come" becomes the success story of the century.  And don't get me started on the OLD Detroit People Mover (which can't even get its own website right for people to know how to get around town on its own simple LOOP) above-ground tram which only has some serious usage during MAJOR events such as the North American International Auto Show.  Rest of the time it's a ghost-train.

 

You want to talk about ways NOT to move a city, AND move people AWAY from public transport, let's have a discussion.  Otherwise, put some bite into your bark -- let's see some proof to your observations.

[BrooklynBus]

^^^^^^^^ THIS.

 

REMEMBER:  "Trickle-Down" effect ......

Other customers outside of bus riders support local businesses.  If you make it harder for them (when they choose NOT to use MTA travel options because of being inconvienient/not reliable), you're going to affect all businesses in the area, and there goes that tax-base, which .... BTW ...... pays for MTA service through the area via property and payroll taxation.  Piss off enough business owners, you'll end up seeing the effects.

 

Employment goes down, revenues go down, less places for those precious bus riders to spend their money at while waiting for the unreliable bus service.

 

It IS cyclical.

You are exactly correct. There is a very busy shopping center near Metropolitan and Woodhaven. On Saturdays and Sundays traffic is very heavy now. I can't even imagine how bad traffic will get after two lanes of traffic and both left turns are removed. Currently it takes two or more cycles to make a left turn. Without the left turns the remaining places where left turns are allowed will be so overloaded that only one of the two remaining traffic lanes will be moving when you currently have four moving lanes. Rather htan getting stuck for 15 minutes or a half an hour getting into and out of the shopping center, people will just take their business elsewhere.

 

The problem SBS advocates believe only bus riders matter and no one should be driving anyway so who cares about them. That is part of the problem and why they don't care about getting the data.

[DetSMART45]

You are exactly correct. There is a very busy shopping center near Metropolitan and Woodhaven. On Saturdays and Sundays traffic is very heavy now. I can't even imagine how bad traffic will get after two lanes of traffic and both left turns are removed. Currently it takes two or more cycles to make a left turn. Without the left turns the remaining places where left turns are allowed will be so overloaded that only one of the two remaining traffic lanes will be moving when you currently have four moving lanes. Rather htan getting stuck for 15 minutes or a half an hour getting into and out of the shopping center, people will just take their business elsewhere.

 

The problem SBS advocates believe only bus riders matter and no one should be driving anyway so who cares about them. That is part of the problem and why they don't care about getting the data.

A real problem that even the MTA doesn't want to deal-with is the fact that people, with means, are shunning their service precisely because it is unreliable and is almost exactly the same as if they use their own transportation methods.

 

There's been angst expressed here about how Uber is "clogging" the streets and lawmakers want to go after them because they're taking away from their once gravy-train of cab drivers.  If the cab companies were providing service up to customers standards, then Uber wouldn't be able to grab the foothold they've been able to.  Similarly, MTA has let their system, overburdened with "transit experts" and the 'know-it-all' mentality completely ruin their almost monopoly over NYC travel.  It is getting to the point -- as one poster specifically mentioned regarding Bronx service -- where they're using the "transit deserts" stream of thought, making it harder for people to get around because they know (pardon this characterization) they've got them by the balls.  If you want to go certain places, then it'll be our way, or we'll make it extremely hard on you, and you'll like it nonetheless.

 

Sorry .... but my region has that mentality and has suffered for it tremendously.  Not just for the commuting public, but also in the very tax-base which supports so many other things: public safety, attractiveness for businesses, liveability and even more.

 

This is exactly what I was referring to when asking for "plusses" for creating SBS service along a corridor.  Benefits MUST be available for the businesses -- i.e. TAXPAYERS / job organisms -- which surround the SBS route, so that bus service is a COMPLEMENTARY part of the given area.  Bus service does play a vital role in efficiently moving people, but it is not the ONLY one.

 

Some people here need to ask the store owners they patronize how much business they get from bus customers versus others at large.  In some areas, businesses can count on spurts from subway/bus customers on discharge.  But I don't think a bank or lending institution will give you a business loan if that's all you're counting on ... well, except for a place at like Grand Central.

[BrooklynBus]

A real problem that even the MTA doesn't want to deal-with is the fact that people, with means, are shunning their service precisely because it is unreliable and is almost exactly the same as if they use their own transportation methods.

 

There's been angst expressed here about how Uber is "clogging" the streets and lawmakers want to go after them because they're taking away from their once gravy-train of cab drivers.  If the cab companies were providing service up to customers standards, then Uber wouldn't be able to grab the foothold they've been able to.  Similarly, MTA has let their system, overburdened with "transit experts" and the 'know-it-all' mentality completely ruin their almost monopoly over NYC travel.  It is getting to the point -- as one poster specifically mentioned regarding Bronx service -- where they're using the "transit deserts" stream of thought, making it harder for people to get around because they know (pardon this characterization) they've got them by the balls.  If you want to go certain places, then it'll be our way, or we'll make it extremely hard on you, and you'll like it nonetheless.

 

Sorry .... but my region has that mentality and has suffered for it tremendously.  Not just for the commuting public, but also in the very tax-base which supports so many other things: public safety, attractiveness for businesses, liveability and even more.

 

This is exactly what I was referring to when asking for "plusses" for creating SBS service along a corridor.  Benefits MUST be available for the businesses -- i.e. TAXPAYERS / job organisms -- which surround the SBS route, so that bus service is a COMPLEMENTARY part of the given area.  Bus service does play a vital role in efficiently moving people, but it is not the ONLY one.

 

Some people here need to ask the store owners they patronize how much business they get from bus customers versus others at large.  In some areas, businesses can count on spurts from subway/bus customers on discharge.  But I don't think a bank or lending institution will give you a business loan if that's all you're counting on ... well, except for a place at like Grand Central.

You are making the assumption that the MTA wants more people to use the system and that is partially erroneous. They only want more people to use the system if it means they don't have to increase service. They realize they are the system of last resort and have no desire to change that.

 

Their goal is to provide the least amount of service they can get away with politically. It is not to connect neighborhoods and better serve the public. If that were their goal they would institute a bunch of new routes and reroute outdated indirect routes. They would not begin new services at 30 minute headways and design them to terminate one or two blocks from a major transfer point. These routes are not designed to be successful but to appease the public. They are performing worse than routes which were discontinued in 2010. If they don't work, they will be discontinued and the MTA will say we tried. Most of the route changes I was responsible for in 1978 are all crowded with service being increased. The MTA sees the service they provide as losing x dollars per passenger they serve so the more pasengers they serve the more service they will need and the more money they will lose. So their goal is to provide less service not more to minimize their losses.

 

If you want successful routes, you have to be wiling to invest in the system and not treat operating costs as if they bear no relation to revenue which is what the MTA does.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I'll say that the current Bx41 with SBS is a vast improvement over the previous operation with LTD service. In high school I had some friends who utilized the Bx41 bus and when discussing that route we used the codename shitty ass transportation because that's how they felt about the route. I've been in touch with a couple of said friends who still utilize the route but don't use the codename anymore because they tell me it's a lot less shitty now. The only negatives I hear about the Bx41 Select have to deal with farebeating which I tend to expect given the areas served by the route. There was a bus one of my friends was on (Bx41) where he said half the riders went into a panic upon seeing the Eagle Team waiting at the approaching stop. We also have to look at the fact that these SBS routes are also seeing better service with the introduction of SBS. The Bx41 LTD ran during rush hours only with 12 minute headways before SBS and now the Bx41 SBS runs with 7-8 minute headways during rush hours and runs throughout midday into the evening (although not as frequent). The Bx12 saw improvements in headways which now stand at 3-4 minutes during morning rush, 6 minutes midday, 4-5 minutes during PM Rush and runs well into the evening with low headways. Sure you'll still have bunching going on and what not that does not mean that service is not improving on these SBS lines. Even with the B44 you now have SBS service with artics running at headways that the Limited ran previously without artics so there's an improvement there in terms of added space available on the bus. There seems to be this thought process that riders will shun buses unless we can get them to fly over cars which for some riders may be true but these people are too much of 'snobs' to be a focal point of any transportation conversation. If you want to say that SBS shouldn't even exist because the actual name itself is a branding tool (none of the changes were substantive enough to warrant running buses under a special name) then I'll agree with you there. However, let's not act as if nothing at all positive has come of this and the MTA is on some conspiracy to undermine bus service across the city.