Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[CenSin]

The issue is reading them from far away, standing on a platform. I and O were already bad as rollsigns, but now that the front destination signs are significantly smaller, the readibility issue is even more of a problem now.

Readability issues don't justify not using the O (even if it's a Q without a stroke). The problem is basically severe enough that that the can't be told from a or at Canal Street until it's halfway into the station. And the E is basically an F with an extra stroke on the bottom. Vital color information and resolution were lost with the NTTs.

[bobtehpanda]

Readability issues don't justify not using the O (even if it's a Q without a stroke). The problem is basically severe enough that that the can't be told from a or at Canal Street until it's halfway into the station. And the E is basically an F with an extra stroke on the bottom. Vital color information and resolution were lost with the NTTs.

 

That was the MTAs justification way back when, before the NTTs. You still have to consider that the bullets are on more than just the trains themselves (signs, maps, service changes, etc.), and for those who don't use the Latin alphabet or are colorblind, usage of the I and O would just make things more difficult.

 

For me, I wonder why they didn't put a digital sign where the rollsign used to be.

[P3F]

For (I) they can use the variant that does not resemble a 1.

[bobtehpanda]

For (I) they can use the variant that does not resemble a 1.

 

Design standards manual has always mandated the use of the Helvetica I, which has no horizontal bars. Unless we move away from Helvetica (which would be expensive), we're stuck with the I that looks like a 1.

[Lance]

I'm sure they can make an exception to the rule since doing otherwise would impede on readability.

[nostalgia]

During the week, the operates between Whitehall and Continental Avenue. On weekends, it operates the entire route via the bridge. Spring is here to stay (until Summer arrives.) Tourists will flood the city. On weekends, the subway transportation to Battery Park (Staten Island ferry, Statue of Liberty ferry) is on the , and . Should some trains be routed to Whitehall on weekends to take some of the load off the other lines? The doesn't have to the whole day but maybe 9 AM to 9 PM.

[CenSin]

usage of the I and O would just make things more difficult.

You mean the same way that and or and sound nearly alike when pronounced? The letter, color, and audio all work together to provide audiovisual cues that distinguish each route, which means if it's blue then it can't possibly be anything other than , , or (currently), or if it's an , it can't be any color other than blue. If your senses are impaired such that you can't pick up a detail, there are other details that fill in (if the MTA would bother using them). That said, what makes the 1/I, or O/0 any more difficult (visually) than C/G, E/F, P/R?

 

 

those who don't use the Latin alphabet or are colorblind

Yet you expect them to know the other 24 letters. Edited May 12, 2014 by CenSin

[Around the Horn]

During the week, the operates between Whitehall and Continental Avenue. On weekends, it operates the entire route via the bridge. Spring is here to stay (until Summer arrives.) Tourists will flood the city. On weekends, the subway transportation to Battery Park (Staten Island ferry, Statue of Liberty ferry) is on the , and . Should some trains be routed to Whitehall on weekends to take some of the load off the other lines? The doesn't have to the whole day but maybe 9 AM to 9 PM.

That does seem like a good Idea but I think track work takes place there(bet. Whitehall and Canal) on weekends.I would (until Montague is over) run the to Broad Street on weekends.

[bobtehpanda]

You mean the same way that and or and sound nearly alike when pronounced? The letter, color, and audio all work together to provide audiovisual cues that distinguish each route, which means if it's blue then it can't possibly be anything other than , , or (currently), or if it's an , it can't be any color other than blue. If your senses are impaired such that you can't pick up a detail, there are other details that fill in (if the MTA would bother using them). That said, what makes the 1/I, or O/0 any more difficult (visually) than C/G, E/F, P/R?

 

Yet you expect them to know the other 24 letters.

 

The O is literally a wider 0, and the 1 can be written without a stem, which isn't particularly big in the first place. All the other letters look different enough visually. Color isn't a good precedent, considering we've had trains in the past with different colors for the same letter. At the very least, O and 0 would be much more difficult to discern than the rest of the combinations you listed.

 

 

[nostalgia]

That does seem like a good Idea but I think track work takes place there(bet. Whitehall and Canal) on weekends.I would (until Montague is over) run the to Broad Street on weekends.

I thought the work was in the tunnel based on the website.

[CenSin]

1 can be written without a stem, which isn't particularly big in the first place.

Sorry. I meant to leave that out of my post (given what I've posted about it previously).

 

 

At the very least, O and 0 would be much more difficult to discern than the rest of the combinations you listed.

What would the O need to be distinct from? There is no 0 to distinguish from. Think of it logically: the letter B looks almost like the German letter ß, but nobody makes a stink about it because the ß will never be used. In fact, if the confusion between 1 and I is a problem, why is the even in use?

[CenSin]

Color isn't a good precedent, considering we've had trains in the past with different colors for the same letter.

While colors morph over time, they generally stay the same for very long periods of time — long enough that it can be relied on as a cue to distinguish trains. Not everyone may be able to use the cue, but a secondary concern would be to maintain consistency. Color is used on all of the signage except on the exterior of trains without roll signs. It's about as acceptable as a letter rendered in Times New Roman here or there on MTA's other publications.

[RollOver]

Eliminate regular express between Myrtle-Broadway and Marcy. / skip-stop express between Myrtle-Broadway and Marcy can stay, due to crowding.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Readability issues don't justify not using the O (even if it's a Q without a stroke). The problem is basically severe enough that that the can't be told from a or at Canal Street until it's halfway into the station. And the E is basically an F with an extra stroke on the bottom. Vital color information and resolution were lost with the NTTs.

 

 

That was the MTAs justification way back when, before the NTTs. You still have to consider that the bullets are on more than just the trains themselves (signs, maps, service changes, etc.), and for those who don't use the Latin alphabet or are colorblind, usage of the I and O would just make things more difficult.

 

For me, I wonder why they didn't put a digital sign where the rollsign used to be.

If they had stuck with left-window front rollsigns on the NTTs, this wouldn't be an issue. Every car fleet from R40 to R68A and the R110B all had left-window front rollsigns that showed the train's letter in a big colored circle or diamond and it worked well enough. They should have left well enough alone and they didn't. At least they should have stuck with front rollsigns until it becomes feasible and cost-effective to put in a digital route sign in place of a front left-side rollsign (if it hasn't already).

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Here's my service proposal for the IND 6th Avenue Line.

The Whole Portion

- Service revived. Now runs on weekends between Forest Hills and 2nd Avenue

Chrystie Street Connection

 - Service revived. Now runs as a weekend shuttle between Broadway-Lafayette Street, and Essext Street. (This is to help ease weekend overcrowding on the .)

 

That's all I have for my ideas. 

[favbusbx13]

They already tried that with the skip-stop service. It didn't work which was the reason it was cut in 2005.

It should be brought back in my opinion, the delays in the morning are extremely high, overcrowded trains.

 

I get on the [225th St] at around 7:25-7:50Am M-F for school getting off at 59th, and usually there's about 2/3 trains out of the 7/8 that come throughout that period that there isn't a seat. And it's only the 4th stop, in my belief this is how it should go:

 

(1)/(9) skip-stop AM/PM Rush/Weekends

225

Dyckman

137

96

And then local go SF, any comments?

Edited May 19, 2014 by favbusbx13

[RollOver]

They ran local almost all of their routes and only skipped about like 3 stations each. Local setvice is far too high and that kills any express or skip-stop service.

[Priincenene]

It should be brought back in my opinion, the delays in the morning are extremely high, overcrowded trains.

I get on the [225th St] at around 7:25-7:50Am M-F for school getting off at 59th, and usually there's about 2/3 trains out of the 7/8 that come throughout that period that there isn't a seat. And it's only the 4th stop, in my belief this is how it should go:

(1)/(9) skip-stop AM/PM Rush/Weekends

225

Dyckman

137

96

And then local go SF, any comments?

 

They should run the Skip stop between South Ferry and 242 St. runs local

[RollOver]

When trains become severely overcrowded and the express or skip-stop flys by empty, don't say anything. Think, how are you gonna run one service skip-stop and the other all local? Does that make sense to you?

Edited May 19, 2014 by RollOver

[Priincenene]

Here's my service proposal for the IND 6th Avenue Line.

The Whole Portion

- Service revived. Now runs on weekends between Forest Hills and 2nd Avenue

Chrystie Street Connection

- Service revived. Now runs as a weekend shuttle between Broadway-Lafayette Street, and Essext Street. (This is to help ease weekend overcrowding on the .)

 

That's all I have for my ideas.

 

I agree! They should bring back the Brown & that way service doesn't get overcrowded. The now is only useful to people between QBL until like Forest Hills for the or if they don't show up on time and pass. has no other choice.

 

Here's mine:

 

Brown to Chambers St/Bay Pkwy (after Montague Tube restoration)

Nassau St/Myrtle Av Lcl

 

- To Forest Hills-71st/2nd Ave

Queens Blvd Lcl

 

The should comeback & run between

Astoria and Whitehall St (replace the in Astoria)

 

- Run between 57 St/7th Av and Coney Island

 

- Run along 7th Ave late nights and weekends

 

 

Basically bring back 2001 routes again. The would bring back

service on the QBL and the (should of) camelback when the Montague Tube was closed due

to Post-Sandy

Edited May 19, 2014 by Priincenene

[S78 via Hylan]

Actually, the now is more useful than you think.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

It should be brought back in my opinion, the delays in the morning are extremely high, overcrowded trains.

 

I get on the [225th St] at around 7:25-7:50Am M-F for school getting off at 59th, and usually there's about 2/3 trains out of the 7/8 that come throughout that period that there isn't a seat. And it's only the 4th stop, in my belief this is how it should go:

 

(1)/(9) skip-stop AM/PM Rush/Weekends

225

Dyckman

137

96

And then local go SF, any comments?

That's exactly why you DON'T bring back skip-stop. You will reduce service to the "skipped" stops, which will make trains MORE crowded, not less.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I agree! They should bring back the Brown & that way service doesn't get overcrowded. The now is only useful to people between QBL until like Forest Hills for the or if they don't show up on time and pass. has no other choice.

 

Here's mine:

 

Brown to Chambers St/Bay Pkwy (after Montague Tube restoration)

Nassau St/Myrtle Av Lcl

 

- To Forest Hills-71st/2nd Ave

Queens Blvd Lcl

 

The should comeback & run between

Astoria and Whitehall St (replace the in Astoria)

 

- Run between 57 St/7th Av and Coney Island

 

- Run along 7th Ave late nights and weekends

 

 

Basically bring back 2001 routes again. The would bring back

service on the QBL and the (should of) camelback when the Montague Tube was closed due

to Post-Sandy

Camelback? How can a train route "camelback"? Sorry, that one kind of just sticks out.

 

But seriously, how is the current service only useful to people riding between QBL stops? How is it not useful to people riding along 53rd St, or 6th Avenue, or people headed from Myrtle Ave or Williamsburg to Midtown Manhattan? For that last group of people, the was useless because it dead-ended at 2nd Ave. And you really want to bring that back? Why?

 

And really, you also want to bring back the equally-useless Nassau St ( M ) service, dead-ending at Chambers St and running empty in southern Brooklyn like it did before it was eliminated in 2010? Again, why?

Edited May 19, 2014 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Priincenene]

Camelback? How can a train route "camelback"? Sorry, that one kind of just sticks out.

 

But seriously, how is the current service only useful to people riding between QBL stops? How is it not useful to people riding along 53rd St, or 6th Avenue, or people headed from Myrtle Ave or Williamsburg to Midtown Manhattan? For that last group of people, the was useless because it dead-ended at 2nd Ave. And you really want to bring that back? Why?

 

And really, you also want to bring back the equally-useless Nassau St ( M ) service, dead-ending at Chambers St and running empty in southern Brooklyn like it did before it was eliminated in 2010? Again, why?

lol I meant "comeback"

 

Anyways, I know because I'm both a Williamsburg ( / ) rider and QBL rider.

 

1. From what I've seen, the has barely any riders or, in some cases, riders along Middle Village and Bushwick need to get to Manhattan and transfer to a at Essex and have to wait a while until another or .

 

2. When I've been along the QBL (Queens Blvd ) Local, I've seen many that have asked one another (including asking me) if "Excuse me. Is this a Manhattan bound or ". Despite that, many people have taken the until a joined QBL stop (I.g. Queens Plaza) and transfer to an or and use the for a transfer at a all-transfer stop.

 

3) Bringing back the Bay Pkwy Brown will increase service in both Brooklyn and Manhattan as passengers can easily travel between Chinatown and Sea Beach as it easily gets overcrowded along the Sea Beach N Q and R lines mostly during rush hour.

 

4) The will increase service in Manhattan and Queens. Before it didn't provide that much service as the served as an alternative because it use to run from 71st-Forest Hills, Qns to [present] Church Av in Bklyn and it also ran along Williamsburg and Bushwick. Rush hour could be useful as now the only runs between Court Sq and Church Av, Bklyn.

[Eric B]

The would be good also for the Culver service to Church so all (F)'s could go express; not just 2nd Ave.

But that is not going to take priority over the now popular Midtown . The only way I could see to resolve that would be when SAS reaches Chrystie St., to add a connection so the could go up SAS. But that would cause a lot of disruption, and probably require a "shallow Chrystie" construction, which has been ruled out.