Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Union Tpke]

I thought the used 10 cars since it shares cars with the ?

 

Problem with that is that Dyre has more spaced out stations then any other place in the system. Your right, Dyre is unserved most of the time, but that's due to the constant switching they have to do at East 180th Street.

 

But, for late night 5 service, wouldn't it be smarter to utilize the old East 180th St platforms instead of the new one so the dosent interfere with the ?

 

They use the old platform for storage, and trains run every 20 minutes during late nights.

[Jemorie]

Some midday trains now run express to Gun Hill Road

No they don't

[GreatOne2k]

No they don't

They have this week around 10-11am along with some trains to 241 St. At least two trains are shown terminating at Gun Hill Road.

[BreeddekalbL]

what would expanding eric's idea of running the to queens plaza to relay?

[Wallyhorse]

In Manhattan? SAS was a solid plan more flexibility with underground trains especially with the density you have in Manhattan. They just couldn't execute some of the misfires not to the City's fault. I do agree they should have held the EL until the subway was completed.  They had it out for the El's, to begin with, the Second Ave was built better and stronger than the 3rd and it had a connection to Queens more useful and easier to upgrade. This was strategic the 3rd's fate was almost sealed there. But the death kiss was the cut back to Chatham which greatly reduced capacity on the line and the closing of 99th and 179th street yards. Making operations intensive and costly you'd have to deadhead trains from the Bronx to go into service. The 3rd would have been so costly to upgrade the local tracks didn't even have signal blocks in place and couldn't run trains over a certain weight with passengers I believe over 57,000-60,000 lbs (Light) If I remember correctly the upper limit's was around 70,000lbs. So El's in Manhattan were doomed. However, they shouldn't have been removed without replacements.

 

(Update) Are you saying they should build a new elevated line?

If they had decided to keep the 3rd Avenue EL, I suspect it would have undergone two complete rebuilds since the '50s: The first in the early 1960's that would have included moving what was the Park Row Branch to a new terminal at Chambers Street, the second rebuild after 9/11 in part to repair parts damaged/destroyed in the attacks and to fortify the rest of it to newer standards.

 

The first rebuild would likely have strengthened the tracks, but also seen several stations consolidated, moved over time and platforms on all stations becoming able to handle 10-car trains (while remaining IRT).  The R-39 order likely goes through during this rebuild to serve as the first new cars on the line while the line is rebuilt and tracks were strengthened.   Also, as the World Trade Center is built, most likely around 1970-'71 the Park Row branch of the line is lengthened to most likely Liberty Place and Church Street to serve the WTC and with that becomes the main branch of the 3rd Avenue EL over South Ferry, and even more so as a likely second extension takes place in the 1980's to serve Battery Park City as that opens up.  Also, transfers between the EL and Subways are likely added at what would likely be Grand Street , 14th , 42nd (4/5/6/7/S) , 53rd (E/F/6 at the time) and 59th-60th (4/5/6/N/R at the time) with for example 86th Street replacing the 84th and 89th Street stations from the old EL.  With the change to what would likely now be the Battery Park City Branch being the (8) train with the South Ferry Branch being the train.

 

The second rebuild as noted would have been after 9/11 and most notably would likely have seen the 59th-60th Street station moved north to a new stop at 60th-63rd to allow for transfers between at present the and at 60th and and at 63rd Street with the 3rd Avenue entrance to 63rd/Lex on that line opened LONG before it actually did.  This rebuild likely would also have strengthened the line further to handle the NTT trains we now have plus possibly added a third branch of the line to cover Brookfield Place that would have followed the (8) on the Battery Park City Branch before continuing west on Worth to Greenwich and eventually go to West Street to terminate at Brookfield Place with that becoming the (10) train.

 

Just my view on what would have happened if the 3rd Avenue EL had NOT been torn down. 

[Lawrence St]

Did SAS phases 3 & 4 get merged into Phase 3?

[Union Tpke]

No.

[Zachary Transit]

Fantasy Subway Update: BMT Broadway and SAS Mapping Complete!

Link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=15QATa2nzCVLXGkSiazSXfSBdPpE&usp=sharing

How'd I do there?

I like it, as well as the idea of the IND Farmers Blvd/Rosedale Line. Any particular subway car for the (Y), and (PI)? 

[pringle5095]

I like it, as well as the idea of the IND Farmers Blvd/Rosedale Line. Any particular subway car for the (Y), and (PI)?

-R179 (Y)-R32 (PI)-R46 or R68

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

1) Myrtle Ave is giving you the evil eye right about now for that idea.

 

2) Car equipment shortages are not the reason why the doesn't run up Queens Blvd anymore. Relaying problems at 71 Avenue with the and , along with the demand for Queens - Manhattan service are the concerns. Also, your proposed car assignments make no sense. The already runs eight-car trains exclusively and there are not enough eight-car 160s around to run on the .

 

3) How are you doubling down on the and service when the Queens Blvd express tracks already at capacity?

I do appreciate the criticism. I figured I miscalculated somewhere.

It helps me learn a little more about the dysfunction.

 

As long as you include valuable information in your replies, I'm ok with my ideas being shot at. You guys know the nooks & crannies of this system quite well.

 

I'd say the Swiss cheese holes in my know-how are 40% smaller since I joined. ???? Glad to be here.

 

Sent from my m8 using Tapatalk

[Lawrence St]

No problem!

 

Think of Crosstown as the Manhattan bypass line. This is why when something happens along Sixth Avenue, they can send trains away from the issue by sending them over via the .

[Lawrence St]

Quick question;

 

2nd Avenue and Grand Street are the only two stations in Manhattan that have space for another station on top/bottom of the present one?

[RailRunRob]

Quick question;

 

2nd Avenue and Grand Street are the only two stations in Manhattan that have space for another station on top/bottom of the present one?

Not sure I understand? Are you talking provisions to add a new level?

[Lawrence St]

No sorry I meant are 2 Avenue and Grand St the only stations that have an already dug out space for the IND Second System?

[RailRunRob]

No sorry I meant are 2 Avenue and Grand St the only stations that have an already dug out space for the IND Second System?

Gotcha. Add Utica  and Broadway on the both have unused shells for the Second System.

Edited March 25, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

East Broadway on the also has a shell for the Worth Street subway and the Express tracks at 2nd Avenue were also for the Second System

[RailRunRob]

East Broadway on the also has a shell for the Worth Street subway and the Express tracks at 2nd Avenue were also for the Second System

Forgot about that one.

Was Grand street for the Second system it was opened in like 1967/68? I know it had like walls that could be removed for the SAS. 70's plan.

[CenSin]

Forgot about that one.

Was Grand street for the Second system it was opened in like 1967/68? I know it had like walls that could be removed for the SAS. 70's plan.

I think Grand Street as it is today was never meant to be. The diversion of 6 Avenue express trains to that station was more of a quick-fix. It was certainly easier than building another river tunnel to Williamsburg.

[RailRunRob]

I think Grand Street as it is today was never meant to be. The diversion of 6 Avenue express trains to that station was more of a quick-fix. It was certainly easier than building another river tunnel to Williamsburg.

Indeed.. That makes sense. I always wondered about the construction process of the 6th ave Express 1960's extension. What was the process for the 34-W4 section? Definitely seems a deep bore anyone knows where one could find any information on construction on this section? 

[Porter]

What can be done to save the Hudson Yards complex before peak capacity is reached in 2025? The terminus alone will prove to be woefully insufficient for getting folks in and out of there.

 

https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news/commercial-real-estate/lois-weiss-hudson-yards-transit-72573

[Around the Horn]

What can be done to save the Hudson Yards complex before peak capacity is reached in 2025? The terminus alone will prove to be woefully insufficient for getting folks in and out of there.

 

https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news/commercial-real-estate/lois-weiss-hudson-yards-transit-72573

 

This article is terrible LMAO

 

so many mistakes:

"The Hudson Yards subway station is not a transit hub, but merely a terminus for the No. 7 line. This thin blue line starts in Queens, stops at Grand Central Terminal, and ends at 34th Street and 11th Avenue. It sucks thousands of people into it as it crosses other lines and finally spits them out at Hudson Yards."

 

Thin blue line? Merely a terminus? It's designed to handle 40,000 passengers an hour...

 

"Projections predicted that during the morning rush hour alone, 26,000 passengers will be leaving the station, while 15,000 will be simultaneously entering the station.^[83] This will make it the busiest subway station in New York City that is not a transfer station.^{[17][24][103]} The station is built to handle an even higher capacity of 40,000 passengers per hour during peak times and events at the Javits Center.^[90]"

 

"The development is so far away from its full potential as a gravity-shifting neighborhood that the subway station closes on weekends."

 

Closes on weekends? Couldn't be father from the truth... The only time Hudson Yards has closed is for CBTC work...

 

"That is because, on a sunny weekday evening in 2025, planners expect a crush of 37,335 people will be pouring out of the giant towers and retail stores, all heading to one subway station serviced by just one line."

 

​Given the frequency of the this won't be an issue...

 

Trains per hour: 12

Capacity of an eleven car R188: 2,012

Total capacity per hour: 24,144 

 

evening is defined usually as 8PM to midnight so 24,144 times 4 equals 96,576.

 

​It's rather clear this woman has no idea what she's talking about...

 

[Porter]

It's rather clear this woman has no idea what she's talking about...

 

phew!

[CenSin]

This article is terrible LMAO

 

so many mistakes:

"The Hudson Yards subway station is not a transit hub, but merely a terminus for the No. 7 line. This thin blue line starts in Queens, stops at Grand Central Terminal, and ends at 34th Street and 11th Avenue. It sucks thousands of people into it as it crosses other lines and finally spits them out at Hudson Yards."

 

Thin blue line? Merely a terminus? It's designed to handle 40,000 passengers an hour...

 

"Projections predicted that during the morning rush hour alone, 26,000 passengers will be leaving the station, while 15,000 will be simultaneously entering the station.^[83] This will make it the busiest subway station in New York City that is not a transfer station.^{[17][24][103]} The station is built to handle an even higher capacity of 40,000 passengers per hour during peak times and events at the Javits Center.^[90]"

 

"The development is so far away from its full potential as a gravity-shifting neighborhood that the subway station closes on weekends."

 

Closes on weekends? Couldn't be father from the truth... The only time Hudson Yards has closed is for CBTC work...

 

"That is because, on a sunny weekday evening in 2025, planners expect a crush of 37,335 people will be pouring out of the giant towers and retail stores, all heading to one subway station serviced by just one line."

 

​Given the frequency of the this won't be an issue...

 

Trains per hour: 12

Capacity of an eleven car R188: 2,012

Total capacity per hour: 24,144 

 

evening is defined usually as 8PM to midnight so 24,144 times 4 equals 96,576.

 

​It's rather clear this woman has no idea what she's talking about...

 

Her article raises some other interesting questions though. If the is going to be the sole line into that area and an incident causes severe congestion or halts service, there’s going to be a crowd problem. The 34 Street–Hudson Yards was built because the area was so isolated. If the station is out of service, I don’t expect people to walk from 34 Street–Penn Station (). The buses and streets are going to be crazy packed trying to cover transfers from the 42 Street and 34 Street stations on all the trunk lines.

 

A 34 Street crosstown line starting from 34 Street–Hudson Yards may be a good project to do when the conditions are right (sending it to Queens over the Long Island Expressway or taking over the Montauk Branch of the LIRR from Long Island City to Jamaica). But an extension up 10 Avenue is also a compelling idea.

[Around the Horn]

Her article raises some other interesting questions though. If the is going to be the sole line into that area and an incident causes severe congestion or halts service, there’s going to be a crowd problem. The 34 Street–Hudson Yards was built because the area was so isolated. If the station is out of service, I don’t expect people to walk from 34 Street–Penn Station ( ). The buses and streets are going to be crazy packed trying to cover transfers from the 42 Street and 34 Street stations on all the trunk lines.

 

A 34 Street crosstown line starting from 34 Street–Hudson Yards may be a good project to do when the conditions are right (sending it to Queens over the Long Island Expressway or taking over the Montauk Branch of the LIRR from Long Island City to Jamaica). But an extension up 10 Avenue is also a compelling idea.

 

I would definitely agree with the via 10 Avenue

[Wallyhorse]

I would definitely agree with the via 10 Avenue

As I would do it, to 72nd/Broadway and the with provisions to go further up Amsterdam Avenue in the future.

 

The stops after 8th Avenue as I would do it (all would be designed for 600' trains as part of a long-term plan to have ALL stations on the Canarsie Line eventually be such):

 

23rd Street

31st-33rd Street

41st Street (transfer to if that station is ever built)

49th-50th Street

58th Street-Roosevelt Hospital

65th Street-Lincoln Center

72nd Street-Broadway.