Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's because taking away lanes for SBS isn't a good idea since 8 million or more people are driving around our city's streets each day. This includes tourists and taxis, and not everyone lives next to the coast so they can't use a ferry.

 

I understand that there isn't a money to build a Ninth Avenue Subway. That is why the solution for now is to increase service, but a new subway line will have to be built in the West Side regardless. It is crowded. Dismissing this idea is just plain foolhardy. We know that all the lines there are crowded. They will need to be supplemented..........

Well that's a great idea but in some cases, service is already at a capacity.

[bobtehpanda]

That's because taking away lanes for SBS isn't a good idea since 8 million or more people are driving around our city's streets each day. This includes tourists and taxis, and not everyone lives next to the coast so they can't use a ferry.

 

I understand that there isn't a money to build a Ninth Avenue Subway. That is why the solution for now is to increase service, but a new subway line will have to be built in the West Side regardless. It is crowded. Dismissing this idea is just plain foolhardy. We know that all the lines there are crowded. They will need to be supplemented..........

 

SBS is perfectly fine and dandy, since SBS moves disproportionately more people than a traffic lane does (which is only 2000 people per hour, and this is the standard used by USDOT for a highway lane that is free-flowing at 55MPH - urban street capacity is bound to be significantly lower). According to New Flyer, a 60 ft Xcelsior carries 123 people - you can carry the same amount of people with 16 buses per hour, which is approximately a four-minute headway. The amount of people positively affected by SBS is much larger than people disadvantaged by it, who also stand to gain from it due to less cars from people switching to buses. So SBS taking lanes is acceptable.

 

We should actually reduce the amount of taxis since they cause so much congestion (unlike commuters' cars, which are in a lot for the workday, taxis constantly move). In every taxi strike that has occurred during Bloomberg's tenure, taxi utilization and speeds actually increased, and those who didn't strike actually made more money. (The last one also had some innovative things that most people didn't really get upset at - group taxis and fares by zone and traffic time instead of distance and traffic time.)

[Roadcruiser1]

SBS is perfectly fine and dandy, since SBS moves disproportionately more people than a traffic lane does (which is only 2000 people per hour, and this is the standard used by USDOT for a highway lane that is free-flowing at 55MPH - urban street capacity is bound to be significantly lower). According to New Flyer, a 60 ft Xcelsior carries 123 people - you can carry the same amount of people with 16 buses per hour, which is approximately a four-minute headway. The amount of people positively affected by SBS is much larger than people disadvantaged by it, who also stand to gain from it due to less cars from people switching to buses. So SBS taking lanes is acceptable.

 

We should actually reduce the amount of taxis since they cause so much congestion (unlike commuters' cars, which are in a lot for the workday, taxis constantly move). In every taxi strike that has occurred during Bloomberg's tenure, taxi utilization and speeds actually increased, and those who didn't strike actually made more money. (The last one also had some innovative things that most people didn't really get upset at - group taxis and fares by zone and traffic time instead of distance and traffic time.)

I looked up the ridership on the Lexington Avenue Line for 2012 and they are comparable to the ridership levels on the Broadway Line and the Washington Heights Line for 2012. You can look this up if you don't believe me. Yet there is no Select Bus Service on the West Side of Manhattan or a new subway line being built to relieve this congestion. It's not a good idea to keep denying this. Something has to be done. Regardless if it's either choice but it has to be done. This issue has to be solved somehow..........

[Airplanepilotgod8888]

I looked up the ridership on the Lexington Avenue Line for 2012 and they are comparable to the ridership levels on the Broadway Line and the Washington Heights Line for 2012. You can look this up if you don't believe me. Yet there is no Select Bus Service on the West Side of Manhattan or a new subway line being built to relieve this congestion. It's not a good idea to keep denying this. Something has to be done. Regardless if it's either choice but it has to be done. This issue has to be solved somehow..........

It's going to take the 1,000 years to build a new subway line for the and an 8 express train. It's best to put a Select Bus Service to hopefully help the with all the crowding. 

[realizm]

The problem here is a lack of political will by the New York State Assembly and Legislature as well as City Hall who are not focused on the IRT West Side at the moment again as they are more focused on the LIRR East Side Access, Second Ave Subway, IRT Flushing line extension CBTC and the signal modernization project in the IND Queens Blvd line to make it ready for CBTC installation. As well as new rolling stock (i.e R188, R179, R211). Which is needed, clearly so, but I don't think that the governor is not paying attention nor really care about the the problems concerning the UES.

 

I would agree however that additional SBS service would be a great idea but again the traffic conditions along the UWS currently will make it difficult for a SBS route alignment and activation, unless significant solutions with the MTA and NYDOT in a joint venture can be established in a binding agreement with approval from Albany and perhaps the federal government as well.

 

I'm sure the MTA at the executive level even are concerned about the worsening conditions on the IRT 7th Avenue line as a whole but the problem is that they, with limitations in the budget for pending capital construction projects forces the capitol construction committee to carefully determine which areas of the system has the highest priority. After all no turning back now unless all of us like to see the SAS or extension or the Queens Blvd CBTC project slow to a sudden halt for the sake of a 9th Avenue line.

 

Cancel all current projects and take the fare hike and let's double it at that so the MTA can collect more revenue to support funding for such a project if there is a lack of political will on the part of the city, state and federal government?

 

Or simply add more service and do NOT reactivate the as it will not work if it did not work up to 2005? I would take the latter.

 

Anyone up for a new line up the UWS? Start a petition to the governor of New York, maybe that would do it and let's hope more people will catch on. Major issues will have to be contended with such as street grid, motorist traffic, neighborhood opposition (i.e NIMBYs) and legalistic land acquisition issues, as well as, again the lack of political will and money wrangling and political football playing on the assembly floor.

 

Good luck with that.

Edited September 19, 2013 by realizm

[Vistausss]

LIRR ESA is the worst thing they've focused on IMHO. Sure a one-seat ride to GCT is nice but there's so many options to reach GCT even from Queens that IMHO ESA should've waited until the next decade. The money should've been used on something that's more needed.

SAS is very important. Sure, you can say "halt it" but fact is it has to be finished some time, even if only phase 1.

The extension is a bit useless IMHO but they've come so far they might as well finish it now.

 

SBS wouldn't work. It's not a matter of SBS but a matter of lack of will. I just don't see many people switching from subway to SBS in this particular case.

[bobtehpanda]

I looked up the ridership on the Lexington Avenue Line for 2012 and they are comparable to the ridership levels on the Broadway Line and the Washington Heights Line for 2012. You can look this up if you don't believe me. Yet there is no Select Bus Service on the West Side of Manhattan or a new subway line being built to relieve this congestion. It's not a good idea to keep denying this. Something has to be done. Regardless if it's either choice but it has to be done. This issue has to be solved somehow..........

 

Which is a completely different point than the one I replied to... You were saying that taking road lanes for SBS to inconvenience 8 million drivers (which is factually incorrect, since a good portion of New York City households are car-free) was a bad idea, and now you're doing this about-face where we should add SBS to the West Side.

 

Honestly, we could probably boost M11 and M7 service a lot more before having to resort to SBS implementation. On other UWS and Uptown bus lines, it'd be a lot harder to implement SBS, since a lot of them use east-west streets and cross over to the East Side (M100/101, M4, M5, etc.) Plus, for those particular lines, you could probably cut away stops on the Limited services - LTD service in Manhattan seems to stop far more frequently than it does in the outer boroughs, where spacing is closer to a half-mile or mile.

[Trainmaster5]

LIRR ESA is the worst thing they've focused on IMHO. Sure a one-seat ride to GCT is nice but there's so many options to reach GCT even from Queens that IMHO ESA should've waited until the next decade. The money should've been used on something that's more needed.

SAS is very important. Sure, you can say "halt it" but fact is it has to be finished some time, even if only phase 1.

The extension is a bit useless IMHO but they've come so far they might as well finish it now.

 

SBS wouldn't work. It's not a matter of SBS but a matter of lack of will. I just don't see many people switching from subway to SBS in this particular case.

I'm sure many people would agree with you concerning East Side Access and the rest but you've overlooked the political reality of the . Because the is a hybrid agency of New York state, the counties, and NYC, nothing is easy to do. You want funding for new subway rolling stock? No problem. When you place that order we want X amount of rolling stock for the LIRR and/or MNRR. Simply put it's a give and take relationship. You want a new tunnel to relieve overcrowding on the Queens Boulevard Line ? No problem, buddy. Just be sure to double deck it for LIRR ESA. If you don't agree to the whole bundle your request will probably be denied. BTW out on Long Island we would like to build a new rail yard in Yaphank and an intermodal freight facility in Calverton for LIRR/NY&A. What do you need in MetroNorth land? We just funded a bunch of subway cars and buses for NYCT so we can skip over them this time. Hey, those people on Staten Island and those on the west of Hudson lines are whining again. Maybe we can throw them a bone in the next capital plan. And so it goes. That's how it really works in (MTA)land. Carry on.

[R62AR33]

I live by the so I agree they should deffinetly add more train service on weekends and weekdays to increase the crowds, but bringing the back will NOT make a difference because it will ho back do skip stop service in the Bronx along with the and will be skipping some important stops and I seriously doubt Bronx riders would want to remember if the or will go to their stop . Remember that is the reason why the got discontinued in the first place , and the is now local .

Edited September 20, 2013 by R62AR33

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm sure many people would agree with you concerning East Side Access and the rest but you've overlooked the political reality of the . Because the is a hybrid agency of New York state, the counties, and NYC, nothing is easy to do. You want funding for new subway rolling stock? No problem. When you place that order we want X amount of rolling stock for the LIRR and/or MNRR. Simply put it's a give and take relationship. You want a new tunnel to relieve overcrowding on the Queens Boulevard Line ? No problem, buddy. Just be sure to double deck it for LIRR ESA. If you don't agree to the whole bundle your request will probably be denied. BTW out on Long Island we would like to build a new rail yard in Yaphank and an intermodal freight facility in Calverton for LIRR/NY&A. What do you need in MetroNorth land? We just funded a bunch of subway cars and buses for NYCT so we can skip over them this time. Hey, those people on Staten Island and those on the west of Hudson lines are whining again. Maybe we can throw them a bone in the next capital plan. And so it goes. That's how it really works in (MTA)land. Carry on.

Yeah everybody has to have their backs soaped up and such because if they don't they'll complain that someone is robbing them.  When I lived on Staten Island, we always made a point to blame Long Island for our decrepit express buses and service saying that the monies collected from the Verrazano went to Long Island for their commuter service but what about our commuter service (the express bus)? And so it continues... Now Staten Island is getting a ton of new express bus and Long Island is due for new cars and so is Metro-North... All happening now...

[Roadcruiser1]

Which is a completely different point than the one I replied to... You were saying that taking road lanes for SBS to inconvenience 8 million drivers (which is factually incorrect, since a good portion of New York City households are car-free) was a bad idea, and now you're doing this about-face where we should add SBS to the West Side.

 

Honestly, we could probably boost M11 and M7 service a lot more before having to resort to SBS implementation. On other UWS and Uptown bus lines, it'd be a lot harder to implement SBS, since a lot of them use east-west streets and cross over to the East Side (M100/101, M4, M5, etc.) Plus, for those particular lines, you could probably cut away stops on the Limited services - LTD service in Manhattan seems to stop far more frequently than it does in the outer boroughs, where spacing is closer to a half-mile or mile.

 

LOL I said that Select Bus Service wasn't a good idea but I never said I was 100% against it. Truthfully there has to be some solution to this problem..........

[Vistausss]

Truthfully there has to be some solution to this problem..........

 

There is and it'll cost way too much money. Increasing headways on the on weekends will help but on weekdays it will only help on the short term. For the long term, the expensive route must be taken and that'll probably won't happen. SBS would be nice if people would actually use it but I don't see that happening in the Bronx. Carry on.

[Airplanepilotgod8888]

The has so many trains that there is like a train every minute. The train needs more trains. The was just unnecessary. The are different to the and that's why there is still skip-stop-service on the to this day.

[Vistausss]

The has so many trains that there is like a train every minute.

 

Of course there are because in rush hour the is accompanied by the  unlike the .

[Airplanepilotgod8888]

Instead of bringing back the . The should invent a <1> train.

[Quill Depot]

The has so many trains that there is like a train every minute. The train needs more trains. The was just unnecessary. The are different to the and that's why there is still skip-stop-service on the to this day.

 

Wha? I lost ya somewhere in those big red letters.

 

Get it through your heads. The ain't coming back, and there isn't any reason for it to do so. Please foam in the random thoughts thread.

[Eric B]

Instead of bringing back the . The should invent a <1> train.

They were testing out some sort of super express years ago, but it probably didn't work. The express track is in two sections, (requiring two merges back into the local), so probably wouldn't save any time.

[Vistausss]

Instead of bringing back the . The should invent a <1> train.

How is a <1> different from the ???

[bobtehpanda]

How is a <1> different from the ???

 

The still stayed on the local tracks, but it just skipped stops. I think he wants a <1> to use the third track north of 96th St, despite the fact that it has no express platforms.

 

That, or he's going to continue beating the horse about four tracks on the and an 8 train to LGA, which was a dead horse on arrival IMO.

[Grand Concourse]

smh, why is this 9 or <1> talk still going on? Even the 4, with it set up for express service, can't have that because like the 1, the local stops have too much demand to lose any service. Express above 96th will never happen for all the reasons listed in this thread.

[realizm]

........ Or the on the West End set up for express service, or the or set up for express service on the Astoria line, self-defeating in terms of adequate service of high frequency stations, respectively. Pretty much the same concept as mentioned in the above post.

[NYSubwayBuff]

With such low headways there is no need for the 9 back

[GreatOne2k]

Unless the  < 1 > runs limited service like the running every 15 minutes

Edited September 22, 2013 by GreatOne2k

[Guest Lance]

And that's part of what did in the diamond 4. Space out the service too much and people will remain on the local. Nobody's going to wait for trains simply because they're express.

[RollOver]

Unless the  < 1 > runs limited service like the running every 15 minutes

 

Pointless. It isn't wroth waiting an average of 7-8 minutes. This isn't the two branches of the east of Rockaway Boulevard where you wait 15-20 minutes during the peak.

 

The point is to provide enough service for the amount of people based on the population of the area, not wasting money on anything that's useless, like the old Nassau Street via 4th Avenue and West End was since many commuters were traveling to Midtown Manhattan, the largest CBD in the city. It's called logic within the and will always be.

Edited September 22, 2013 by RollOverMyHead