Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Roadcruiser1]

I am not sure extending the QB line by itself is a viable solution. It will just funnel more customers into an already packed line during the rush hour. There is enough delays on the express, especially during the morning, due to the tight headways and adding more passenger is not going to help that. It will simply add to the dwell time as riders try to squeeze on and add to the delays down the line. The majority of riders already jump from local to express now at Roosevelt regardless of how much of a sardine can it can be. Can you imagine if this express/local arrangement was extended further. It will simply add to the delays entering Forest Hills and at whatever the designated express stops are.

 

This will work if there is a way to convince rider NOT to switch. But GOOD LUCK with that.

 

Just extend the down Northern Boulevard down to Queensborough Community College. It would help take some load from the extension, and probably still solve all problems..........

[bobtehpanda]

I am not sure extending the QB line by itself is a viable solution. It will just funnel more customers into an already packed line during the rush hour. There is enough delays on the express, especially during the morning, due to the tight headways and adding more passenger is not going to help that. It will simply add to the dwell time as riders try to squeeze on and add to the delays down the line. The majority of riders already jump from local to express now at Roosevelt regardless of how much of a sardine can it can be. Can you imagine if this express/local arrangement was extended further. It will simply add to the delays entering Forest Hills and at whatever the designated express stops are.

 

This will work if there is a way to convince rider NOT to switch. But GOOD LUCK with that.

 

See, most people getting off at Hillside are getting onto a bus for a 2nd trip home, so we're not going to see too much funneling. What's the difference if they transfer at 188th, Francis Lewis, 212th, or Springfield, and if they transfer at 179th?

[Mtatransit]

Ok Im Not Tryin to "shaft" the dyre riders But its less stops on dyre then wpr...so to correct this how about every 3rd 5 outta 180 head up to 238!....the 5 runs pretty frequently so I think this isnt askin too much...and the reason why theres no deamand for Lex ave is becuase its never been offered on a regular basis outside of rush hours....im sure the demand is there But folks up this way are just used to havin direct westside access and transfer south of 180 for the eastside...I work on 42nd And id gladly pass over the 2 for the 5...the 5 makes less stops south of 149 compared to the 2...especially when its peak exp...its 50 mins on the 2 and with exp 5 its about 40 mins...Just sayin...

 

 

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The runs local other than rush hr so your not saving any time. I don't want the to be the former where it was cut every miday nights and weekend. If its every third train to238 street there will be an gap in the dyre av services and an 30 min wait for UWPR line sorry but not gonna work.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Mtatransit

[Juelz4309]

I dont see the Issue at hand...Theres always "Gaps" in service even outside Rush hour so whas the big deal with the dyre line? Its the first to go when somethin goes wrong down the line...like fri with the rail condition at 96 st...The 2 was rerouted down Lex and the 5 shuttled 180-Dyre...I still find 180-241 More Important...Even in the rush hour With the 238 5s ...Dyre see a train every 6-8 minutes...And Ive even been on 238 bound 5s that get rerouted to Dyre at 180...to my dismay...its always a 50/50 shot with these nereid 5s...When you get to 180th you see people get off and wait for the 2 becuase 50 percent of the time it may either go thru as scheduled to or run express to Gun hill then 241 or lastly a reroute to dyre...It just seems the 5 along WPR is a pain to operate from the dispatchers point...So I Guess the 2 it is...

 

 

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[bobtehpanda]

I dont see the Issue at hand...Theres always "Gaps" in service even outside Rush hour so whas the big deal with the dyre line? Its the first to go when somethin goes wrong down the line...like fri with the rail condition at 96 st...The 2 was rerouted down Lex and the 5 shuttled 180-Dyre...I still find 180-241 More Important...Even in the rush hour With the 238 5s ...Dyre see a train every 6-8 minutes...And Ive even been on 238 bound 5s that get rerouted to Dyre at 180...to my dismay...its always a 50/50 shot with these nereid 5s...When you get to 180th you see people get off and wait for the 2 becuase 50 percent of the time it may either go thru as scheduled to or run express to Gun hill then 241 or lastly a reroute to dyre...It just seems the 5 along WPR is a pain to operate from the dispatchers point...So I Guess the 2 it is...

 

 

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The problem with this *gap* is that (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) the MTA is mandated by City Council to maintain a minimum amount of service according to service guidelines. If the MTA thought that WPR was above guideline load (and turnstile count would definitely give some indication for this), then it would probably increase 2 service, because it is not possible for the MTA to rob Peter (Dyre) to pay Paul (WPR).

 

What you should be concerned about is not whether your train car is full; it's whether or not the entire train is above guideline. If this is just an issue of people mashing into certain cars because that's where the exits and entries are, then big whoop: that happens on nearly every train line in every part of the city. The MTA calculates by average car load, not peak car load, and that's what you've got to worried about.

[RollOver]

The problem with this *gap* is that (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) the MTA is mandated by City Council to maintain a minimum amount of service according to service guidelines. If the MTA thought that WPR was above guideline load (and turnstile count would definitely give some indication for this), then it would probably increase 2 service, because it is not possible for the MTA to rob Peter (Dyre) to pay Paul (WPR).

 

What you should be concerned about is not whether your train car is full; it's whether or not the entire train is above guideline. If this is just an issue of people mashing into certain cars because that's where the exits and entries are, then big whoop: that happens on nearly every train line in every part of the city. The MTA calculates by average car load, not peak car load, and that's what you've got to worried about.

 

Exactly. Excellent point.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I dont see the Issue at hand...Theres always "Gaps" in service even outside Rush hour so whas the big deal with the dyre line? Its the first to go when somethin goes wrong down the line...like fri with the rail condition at 96 st...The 2 was rerouted down Lex and the 5 shuttled 180-Dyre...I still find 180-241 More Important...Even in the rush hour With the 238 5s ...Dyre see a train every 6-8 minutes...And Ive even been on 238 bound 5s that get rerouted to Dyre at 180...to my dismay...its always a 50/50 shot with these nereid 5s...When you get to 180th you see people get off and wait for the 2 becuase 50 percent of the time it may either go thru as scheduled to or run express to Gun hill then 241 or lastly a reroute to dyre...It just seems the 5 along WPR is a pain to operate from the dispatchers point...So I Guess the 2 it is...

 

 

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lol... I don't see what more frequency would do for you along White Plains Road.  I tutor not too far from there near Pelham Parkway on Saturdays and I don't know how people endure that long train ride.  If you're on the East Side, you'd be better off using the BxM11, which is what I do.  It's much faster than the subway and the headways are fairly good most of the day.

[realizm]

I don't know how people endure that long train ride.

Its horrible dude. It melts away the mind making local stop in the Bronx after local stop...

 

 

If the MTA thought that WPR was above guideline load (and turnstile count would definitely give some indication for this), then it would probably increase 2 service,

They are. service on the weekdays will be increased by a total of 3 round trips starting in June 2014.

Edited December 23, 2013 by realizm

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Its horrible dude. It melts away the mind making local stop in the Bronx after local stop...

What's more mind blowing is how empty some BxM11's are above Pelham Parkway.  The folks along White Plains Road have a quick alternative to the East Side in the BxM11 and don't use it, yet they scream for more service... The BxM11 gets the headways that it does mainly because of those in Pelham Parkway.  When I get on and I am usually the only person on the bus until we get close to the Bronx Zoo. Granted it's been really cold of late in the evenings on Saturdays but still.  I've used the also on Saturdays along White Plains Road and unfortunately I don't see the ridership there for service.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Juelz4309]

Well Its Nice for those who can afford 12 Bucks Roundtrip a day on the BXM11...While it does run pretty frequently cuz I see it Often...its still 12 Bucks roundtrip...And Subject to Traffic which at some point there always is...Like I said Before Previously...People are Not used to having the Option to go to the Eastside Becuase it was NEVER set up that way...Lets say The 5 was the "main" line and you hadda transfer at 180 for the westside Then People up this way wud just be used to that service pattern...I dont See Why the westside is more Important than the East...There both in the CBD Seperated By mere blocks when you reach 42...Its like the folks on Eastern Parkways In Brooklyn...You get access to either or...Gues thas askin too much up here in the Bx...But I Get it...No 5 service Outside of what WPR Already sees...

 

 

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[realizm]

Well Its Nice for those who can afford 12 Bucks Roundtrip a day on the BXM11...While it does run pretty frequently cuz I see it Often...its still 12 Bucks roundtrip...

 

You have a point. Much of the ROW along the in the Bronx to be honest runs through poorer urban neighborhoods. That may be a deterrent right there unfortunately. It is what it is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well Its Nice for those who can afford 12 Bucks Roundtrip a day on the BXM11...While it does run pretty frequently cuz I see it Often...its still 12 Bucks roundtrip...And Subject to Traffic which at some point there always is...Like I said Before Previously...People are Not used to having the Option to go to the Eastside Becuase it was NEVER set up that way...Lets say The 5 was the "main" line and you hadda transfer at 180 for the westside Then People up this way wud just be used to that service pattern...I dont See Why the westside is more Important than the East...There both in the CBD Seperated By mere blocks when you reach 42...Its like the folks on Eastern Parkways In Brooklyn...You get access to either or...Gues thas askin too much up here in the Bx...But I Get it...No 5 service Outside of what WPR Already sees...

 

 

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You have a point. Much of the ROW along the in the Bronx to be honest runs through poorer urban neighborhoods. That may be a deterrent right there unfortunately. It is what it is.

Well Pelham Parkway isn't exactly affluent, though there are some upper middle class "pockets" if you will and they seem to manage with the express bus so I don't know.  I've also heard that some folks in Westchester use the BxM11 on occasion, which may be true.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[realizm]

Well the ultimate solution to this entire thread, not to boast is simple. The MTA in the 60's and 70's should have carried out their promise to replace the 3rd Ave El with the to the Bronx with a new subway as stated in their presentations. That would have solved everything.

[Lance]

Well the ultimate solution to this entire thread, not to boast is simple. The MTA in the 60's and 70's should have carried out their promise to replace the 3rd Ave El with the to the Bronx with a new subway as stated in their presentations. That would have solved everything.

Yes, the "ultimate solution". As if it's so feasible. Not to be mean or anything, but from the way you name-check the T-line, some would assume you're getting a paycheck every time you do so.

[realizm]

Yes, the "ultimate solution". As if it's so feasible. Not to be mean or anything, but from the way you name-check the T-line, some would assume you're getting a paycheck every time you do so.

 

The problem on this one is decades of neglect to rapid transit in NYC against the two financial crisises that has occurred in regards to expansion projects. If it didn't historically happen we would have been ahead of the 2nd Ave line deal by a long shot. The MTA screwed up because they prematurely dismantled an important el anticipating a new Bronx expansion that went financially FUBAR, basically.

 

*Or should I say NYS ? The money was there clearly. It was misused because of other issues leading up to the financial crisises that hit us during that time.

Edited December 23, 2013 by realizm

[Kamen Rider]

You didn't know?

 

Between 1950 and 1980 New York State finances were handled by a chimp with an adding machine.

 

They traded him in for a gibbon with a calculator but the damage was done.

 

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The preceding statement was ment to be taken in a humorous manner...

[realizm]

You didn't know?

 

Between 1950 and 1980 New York State finances were handled by a chimp with an adding machine.

 

They traded him in for a gibbon with a calculator but the damage was done.

 

------------------------------

The preceding statement was ment to be taken in a humorous manner...

 

I loled. That was my point you nailed it. 

 

Yeah I knew what Lance was coming from, he makes sense. Any plans of a SAS extension is not feasible with the current condition (as of 2013) of this state financially for what its worth with all the political footballing and doubling up on the audit books over the years. Hopefully some decades from now it could be different. Maybe. 

 

But they did make a provision for a spur in Phase 2 design. There's hope... (maybe?)

[Union Tpke]

If you extend the out further, extend the as a local and space out express stations, so the same thing that happened when the was extended up Hillside won't happen again.

 

 

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[Kamen Rider]

The only thing standing in the way are the nimnuts we keep putting there. You know Charlie Rangel, since SAS phase 2 would effect his area, has been elected 21 times, and is quite close to 43 years in the job (and would probably quite close to fusing with his chair if he sat in it log enough) yet has he ever said anything about SAS?

[bobtehpanda]

If you extend the out further, extend the as a local and space out express stations, so the same thing that happened when the was extended up Hillside won't happen again.

 

 

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Not to be a downer, but we've long passed the era of four track extensions. It would probably be a two-track extension from the express tracks.

[Trainmaster5]

Perhaps you missed my history lesson(s) on the White Plains Road line train service in the past so I'll do a short refresher. 241 St-WPR was the historical terminal for east side train service. People from Mount Vernon and points north used that station for the Lexington and the Third Avenue services. When yours truly was a new M/M working in 239th St yard we still had unused Third Avenue cars stored there from the el's closure. Seventh Avenue trains started at the old Bronx Park terminal before it was closed and the direct connection with the Dyre Avenue line was put into operation. At that time 7th Avenue service ran from Dyre to New Lots except for the late night shuttle between East 180th and Dyre. The public and the politicians wanted the TA to switch the northern terminals so Dyre became the Lex terminal and 241St was left with the train. This is what the people in the corridor between 241 St and East 180th St asked for. Those rush hour trains to 241 St/238th St were left in place for the benefit of those commuters coming from the north. Those people entering and leaving the trains up there and many of those at Dyre Avenue are commuting by bus to other points and don't live near the subways. If we're speaking of NYC residents only I'd bet that the residents of Coop City and their politicians have more clout with the compared to the upper WPR people. The only way the swaps terminals again or adds service is if it benefits train operations and not for any other reason. Just over three years ago a proposal to adjust train service up there was panned by the riders and the politicians. Most of the riders hated a variation of your idea. As some have pointed out I don't think farebox counts or loading guidelines show a need for a service adjustment up there.  I haven't been down at street level at the stations up there in about 15 years but there used to be blue and white signs on the staircases that said Interborough system to Lexington Avenue /Fourth Avenue service to City Hall, South Ferry, and Brooklyn. Transfer to 7th Avenue service to Times Square. That's what White Plains Road service used to be. Carry on.

[Roadcruiser1]

If you extend the out further, extend the as a local and space out express stations, so the same thing that happened when the was extended up Hillside won't happen again.

 

 

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It's such a short line. There would be no need for any express service. It would be just as useless as a Sea Beach, or West End Express..........

[SubwayGuy]

Well the ultimate solution to this entire thread, not to boast is simple. The MTA in the 60's and 70's should have carried out their promise to replace the 3rd Ave El with the to the Bronx with a new subway as stated in their presentations. That would have solved everything.

 

What should have happened was the Bronx portion of the Third Avenue El should have been connected to Lenox back when that option was still available. Imagine the service you could have had then, at a fraction of the cost of the pipe dream of building a full length 2nd avenue subway.

Edited December 24, 2013 by SubwayGuy

[FamousNYLover]

I think it's great and bad idea, but car park & ride may not work well if every motorists decided to take subways and buses.

This is Mercer Island Report'ers August 2010 at 2pm updated August 30 2013 at 10:17am report that Mercer Island Park & Ride was FULL.

http://www.mi-reporter.com/news/101485024.html

Edited December 24, 2013 by FamousNYLover

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

As someone who lives out there, two things:

 

1. Springfield Boulevard is about the point where money for extending past it stops making sense. Buses past that point are usually only half full and very quick (and if you're one of those people who think the zoning can be changed and developers will start building condo towers out in Eastern Queens, I have a bridge to sell you)

 

2. Queens wants nothing to do with Park and Ride. Nassau riders can take NICE or the LIRR, because there isn't enough capacity in the Queens tubes for them to all drive up to the county border and switch to trains.

 

1. I would say that Francis Lewis Blvd is the point where building after it doesn't make sense. I mean, yeah, you could use Springfield Blvd as a terminal (I totally agree with you that anything after Springfield Blvd makes no sense), you could allieviate the Q27, which is always full, and get some riders to take the instead of going all the way to the . You could see a reduction in service on Hillside overall, but yeah, Francis Lewis or Springfield is about that point where it should end.