W train coming back this fall

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't understand why there is such a huge gap in the (and the for that matter)... No stops between 86th and 72nd... Is the that blind to the amount of overcrowding that happens on the at 77th street??  I'm sorry but if someone has the choice of schlepping uphill to 72nd for the and going east versus a shorter walk to the Lex line, it should be obvious what they're going to do.  I had a dilemma this morning. I missed my BxM8 express bus and had to schlepp on the train. I was in between the 77th and 68th street stations, so I picked the worse of the two evils and walked uphill to 68th for the .  

[Caelestor]

The issue is that stations have to be built with modern amenities such as air cooling, deep caverns, ADA, and mezzanine levels, so they nowadays cost $1 billion each. To reduce costs, newer subway lines only stop at major crosstown streets, but the stations themselves typically have multiple entrances, so the gap between stations isn't actually too bad. For Phase 1, there are entrances at 69th, 72nd, 83rd, 86th, 94th, and 96th Sts, so the biggest gap between adjacent entrances is only 11 blocks. On the other hand, fewer stops means reasonably fast service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The issue is that stations have to be built with modern amenities such as air cooling, deep caverns, ADA, and mezzanine levels, so they nowadays cost $1 billion each. To reduce costs, newer subway lines only stop at major crosstown streets, but the stations themselves typically have multiple entrances, so the gap between stations isn't actually too bad. For Phase 1, there are entrances at 69th, 72nd, 83rd, 86th, 94th, and 96th Sts, so the biggest gap between adjacent entrances is only 11 blocks. On the other hand, fewer stops means reasonably fast service.

Please... When you're walking with your cappuccino in hand as I was this morning after having missed my express bus, those blocks are like an eternity, especially if you have to walk uphill.  I think they're making a huge mistake not having a station in between there. 11 blocks is more than half a mile.  Additionally, you have Lenox Hill hospital right by 77th street, and the M79 has a ton of people going back and forth, not to mention all of the businesses in the area.  How they can justify not having a station either at 77th or at 79th with the crowding issues currently on the at 77th street is insane, and the whole idea of having the and run there is to alleviate crowding on the Lex line.  You would have to have people willing to go out of their way to use the Second Avenue stations, and quite frankly, if one has to backtrack too far, I don't see why they would ditch the Lex line when all of the action is mainly on Lex and 3rd Avenues.  You also have to schlepp uphill going from 1st to Lex in certain areas, so if that person has to deal with all of that to avoid the Lex line, they likely won't bother.

 

Since the whole construction thing on Second Avenue started, I rarely patronize any businesses on the Upper East Side past 3rd Avenue.  That means no more going to restaurants on Second Avenue (quite a few that I frequented went out of business because of the whole subway debacle), and no more trips to Agata & Valentina either.  

[bobtehpanda]

I don't understand why there is such a huge gap in the (and the for that matter)... No stops between 86th and 72nd... Is the that blind to the amount of overcrowding that happens on the at 77th street??  I'm sorry but if someone has the choice of schlepping uphill to 72nd for the and going east versus a shorter walk to the Lex line, it should be obvious what they're going to do.  I had a dilemma this morning. I missed my BxM8 express bus and had to schlepp on the train. I was in between the 77th and 68th street stations, so I picked the worse of the two evils and walked uphill to 68th for the .  

 

The stations will have multiple entrances; the farthest entrances between 72nd and 86th are only ten blocks apart. We barely cobbled together the money for what we have; another station would easily add a billion to the cost, what with all the property acquisition, demolition, and other things required.

 

The hospital will only be five blocks away from an entrance. If you have a station at 79th, there's an entrance four blocks away; if you have a station at 77th, 72nd is five blocks away.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I would imagine a station around 79 St if we ever had a 2 av express or provision for one. But that's never gonna happen thanks to the great depression, World War II, and any other event that stopped construction.

[checkmatechamp13]

You would have to have people willing to go out of their way to use the Second Avenue stations, and quite frankly, if one has to backtrack too far, I don't see why they would ditch the Lex line when all of the action is mainly on Lex and 3rd Avenues.  You also have to schlepp uphill going from 1st to Lex in certain areas, so if that person has to deal with all of that to avoid the Lex line, they likely won't bother.

 

If they're going to the West Side of Manhattan, the saves them a transfer at either 59th Street or 42nd Street, so in that case, it might be worth it. (Conversely, if they're going to the East Side or Downtown, it pays to continue taking the Lexington Avenue Line, so it cancels out in a sense)

 

It'll get a good chunk of the ridership from those hospitals by 69th & York. And hopefully the stops at 86th & 96th will alleviate crowding on the enough to allow trains to run more consistently at 77th and alleviate some of the crowds that way. (Of course, the major relief will come when the is sent up to 125th). And I think I remember reading that the population center of the UES is actually along 2nd Avenue, so that alone will shift some ridership to the .

[Wallyhorse]

If they're going to the West Side of Manhattan, the saves them a transfer at either 59th Street or 42nd Street, so in that case, it might be worth it. (Conversely, if they're going to the East Side or Downtown, it pays to continue taking the Lexington Avenue Line, so it cancels out in a sense)

 

It'll get a good chunk of the ridership from those hospitals by 69th & York. And hopefully the stops at 86th & 96th will alleviate crowding on the enough to allow trains to run more consistently at 77th and alleviate some of the crowds that way. (Of course, the major relief will come when the is sent up to 125th). And I think I remember reading that the population center of the UES is actually along 2nd Avenue, so that alone will shift some ridership to the .

Which is also why during the closure I also do the "Orange " described in numerous other places to 96th/2nd to supplement Broadway-Brooklyn service since it ALSO would give UES riders a direct 6th Avenue option at all times (with that possible made permanent).    I don't think some people realize how densely populated the UES is.

 

Meanwhile, the in my view should possibly be a seven-day-a-week line.  Perhaps on weekends (during the summer months) the could run its normal route (Astoria-Whitehall) and then continue as a second Brighton train, running express to Coney Island on weekends during warm weather (if so, most likely 8:00 AM-10:00 PM on Saturdays and 9:30 AM-8:30 PM on Sundays).

[JayJay85]

I don't understand why there is such a huge gap in the (and the for that matter)... No stops between 86th and 72nd... Is the that blind to the amount of overcrowding that happens on the at 77th street?? I'm sorry but if someone has the choice of schlepping uphill to 72nd for the and going east versus a shorter walk to the Lex line, it should be obvious what they're going to do. I had a dilemma this morning. I missed my BxM8 express bus and had to schlepp on the train. I was in between the 77th and 68th street stations, so I picked the worse of the two evils and walked uphill to 68th for the .

I agreed man.

[RollOver]

It might not be the best comparison, but I compare the two stations because they both have roughly the same amount of ridership. I don't think that express trains stop at 49th because its a busy station. I think it has more to do with operational issues that was already mentioned on this forum. If 49th St was a local station only than I think the combined headways during peak hours and off peak hours can handle 49th St on its own.

 

Fully agreed.

[biGC323232]

This...

 

I don't see why people getting all bent out of shape going nuts because the coming back. If you rode the at night, then you rode the . Nothing special about it, just another letter.

 

Word Up.....

The is holding a meeting about the new soon. I think I should go, and convince them to extend the line to South Brooklyn at least during rush hours to help back the , and finally solve the problem caused by the removal of the brown .

 

I agree...They need to look into that for real....

[Javier]

That is basically the service right there. Plus there is no need for a Astoria Shuttle. Don't complicate things when it doesn't need to be.

Somehow I missed this in the thread.

 

Ok, if you don't want to complicate things, why don't we fix up something else. Have the be extended late nights to Bay Ridge - 95 St to eliminate the late night shuttle service.

 

And semi off topic question, but is the switch that connects the to the still OOS?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If they're going to the West Side of Manhattan, the saves them a transfer at either 59th Street or 42nd Street, so in that case, it might be worth it. (Conversely, if they're going to the East Side or Downtown, it pays to continue taking the Lexington Avenue Line, so it cancels out in a sense)

 

It'll get a good chunk of the ridership from those hospitals by 69th & York. And hopefully the stops at 86th & 96th will alleviate crowding on the enough to allow trains to run more consistently at 77th and alleviate some of the crowds that way. (Of course, the major relief will come when the is sent up to 125th). And I think I remember reading that the population center of the UES is actually along 2nd Avenue, so that alone will shift some ridership to the .

I don't doubt this at all.  I just doubt that it'll alleviate the real issues along the Lex line. While you have a lot of people that go to the Lex line because there aren't any alternatives, some go to it because they really need the line.  It travels a rather unique routing, and the isn't far along enough to really put a dent in that.  For those who use the M15 or really need far East Side access it'll help, but I don't see that many people going out of the way for that line over the Lex line, but who knows.  Maybe the crowding will be so unbearable that they'll put up with backtracking in some cases to use that line.  It'll be interesting to see what the headways are once it is up and running.

[LTA1992]

This is why I say that Phase II needs to be modified to end at 3rd Avenue and 149th. Not only would you take many passengers away from the Lex by doing this, you'd also take some passengers away from 7th Avenue as well. This is the only way I'd see anyone switching from the Lex to SAS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is why I say that Phase II needs to be modified to end at 3rd Avenue and 149th. Not only would you take many passengers away from the Lex by doing this, you'd also take some passengers away from 7th Avenue as well. This is the only way I'd see anyone switching from the Lex to SAS.

Very true.  If the frequencies are half decent, they'll be more likely to use it over the trains.  Those people still need to go shopping along 86th street and go to work in the Union Square area or areas further south, so the would have to make sense to avoid tons of backtracking and an overall longer commute.

[Q43LTD]

This is one of the reasons I'd modify the stops on the SAS

[46Dover]

 

to The Bronx. Who would've thought it.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I know I'm late to the party here, but I just want to say I'm glad the is planning to bring back the . The Broadway Line became a real shitshow after it was eliminated. By having the back in service, they will no longer be switching weekday trains at Prince and the can stay on the express all the way to 57th (and later 96th/2nd). Since we will only have the switching at 34th on weekdays, that should help reduce some of the delays the N, Q and R trains regularly experience under the current service pattern (which looked much better on paper than in practice).

We have a problem though, and that's Whitehall St. The needs a new terminal to terminate at, or else we are going to have chaos just like we had in pre-2010. City Hall can be one of them, but I was thinking of sending the down the line to 9 Av during rush hours and middays, and the rest can terminate at either 36 St or Atlantic.

 

And why does everyone keep saying the is coming back, IT IS NOT COMING BACK!!!

I think it would be more of a problem to terminate the at 9th Ave than it would be at Whitehall. By sending the W to 9th, it has to merge with the , which forces it to wait there and possibly delay other southbound D and N trains behind it - unless the D leaves first and then it's R and W trains that will get held up. Manhattan-bound W's will delay northbound trains when they have to switch over to the local track before entering 36th St. Not to mention that 9th Ave is not exactly a station that needs a second service. I'm not against extending the W to Brooklyn, but there are better places to extend it to than 9th Ave. And of course, we have to have enough subway cars to cover that extension, which right now we don't.

[LTA1992]

Very true.  If the frequencies are half decent, they'll be more likely to use it over the trains.  Those people still need to go shopping along 86th street and go to work in the Union Square area or areas further south, so the would have to make sense to avoid tons of backtracking and an overall longer commute.

It also guarantees The Bronx two branches, further reducing passenger congestion as well as providing services either long gone or long promised. With the and both running, midday frequencies should be around 4 minutes for the section between 72nd Street and The Hub.

[Javier]

I can confirm that the train timetable and route map is back up on the MTA website, although the bullet png file has still not returned yet. The timetable is the 2009 edition, and the updated Second Av Subway timetable has also been uploaded.

[2 Train Master]

I see theres a lot of talk with a car shortage and the R-32's being banned in the Montague tubes due to clearance issues. With the shutting down supposedly possibly the tubes indefinitely for maintenance is it possible the (J)/(Z) or and receive some R-143/160's from the and that could bump a few sets of 42's for the ? Or is that banned also? I see where you guys are coming from with the car shortage and what not its a question.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

R42s are also banned from Montague for the same reason the 32s are. Although the 42s have tapered sides, it's only a slight tapering unlike what the R46 and later cars have, so the 42s are unable to clear the new cables laid in the tubes.

[Javier]

Which is why when the first launches, they may decrease the TPH a bit until the R179's start coming in.

[Around the Horn]

I can confirm that the train timetable and route map is back up on the MTA website, although the bullet png file has still not returned yet. The timetable is the 2009 edition, and the updated Second Av Subway timetable has also been uploaded.

Really? Post the link please!

[pitchblende]

Really? Post the link please!

I'm guessing that this is the link. 

 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/twcur.pdf

[Around the Horn]

I'm guessing that this is the link. 

 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/twcur.pdf

I wanted the train one.