42nd Street Shuttle Update

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Can we just automate the shuttle?

Today, I don't think the shuttle really needs it in the MTA's sense, it's only 2 stops long, not that complicated to run, and human beings can make sure the line is operating better at that point than automation, where nobody will likely control the train. Plus, if the operators have to supervise the line, similar to other CBTC lines today, it wouldn't be all that less difficult or different than without...

The biggest reason however... MTA doesn't have $$$ to spare for stuff like this, at least today.

[Lance]

As part of the shuttle reconstruction, there will be a study conducted into automating the line.

[Lawrence St]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a switch between Track 3 & 4?

Also, what would guys think of taking the last remaining R142A on the and putting it on the shuttle, and send those R62A's on the to the (6)? This would allow an easier automation process in my opinion.

[LGA Link N Train]

I don't know if the 42 Street is able to Use NTT'S

[Union Tpke]

5 hours ago, Lance said:

As part of the shuttle reconstruction, there will be a study conducted into automating the line.

That was taken out of the Capital Program as part of a revision. It would have cost $1 million.

[Union Tpke]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a switch between Track 3 & 4?

Also, what would guys think of taking the last remaining R142A on the and putting it on the shuttle, and send those R62A's on the to the (6)? This would allow an easier automation process in my opinion.

There is no switch between Track 3 and 4.

[Coney Island Av]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a switch between Track 3 & 4?

Also, what would guys think of taking the last remaining R142A on the and putting it on the shuttle, and send those R62A's on the to the (6)? This would allow an easier automation process in my opinion.

The R142s aren't able to run on the shuttle because the platforms are too miniscule to have an R142A stop there. The  currently operates with R62As linked from three-four car arrangements (I believe that's what it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong) instead of full-length trains. I don't think you could split the R142 into 5-car arrangements as they're still too long for the shuttle. 

It's the same reason why you haven't seen an R160 operate on the Franklin Shuttle before, not only due to being OPTO. They could theoretically operate on the Rockaway Park Shuttle, however it's also OPTO. 

And there's only a switch between Track 3 and Track 1. Track 2 was removed, and I believe any connection between Track 4 and Track 1 was probably removed when Track 2 went out of business. 

The  doesn't need NTTs in my opinion. Although it's heavily used, the current R62As do fine in handling the crowds. 

[R68OnBroadway]

9 hours ago, Lance said:

As part of the shuttle reconstruction, there will be a study conducted into automating the line.

Why the hell do you need a study for that? It's a two track line which trains that just reverse. Calculate the cost and that's it. No need to study a bunch of other useless crap.

MTA wastefulness at its finest.

[HenryB]

"Why making the Shuttle fully automatic?" ----> To test the technology in a relatively short line.....

[officiallyliam]

14 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

The R142s aren't able to run on the shuttle because the platforms are too miniscule to have an R142A stop there. The  currently operates with R62As linked from three-four car arrangements (I believe that's what it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong) instead of full-length trains. I don't think you could split the R142 into 5-car arrangements as they're still too long for the shuttle. 

 

They're extending the platform to six cars for this reconstruction project, so they could very easily use 142/142A equipment on the shuttle.

The plan, though, is to use the existing R62 cars, linked in to six-car sets.

[Lance]

18 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

That was taken out of the Capital Program as part of a revision. It would have cost $1 million.

Typical.

15 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

The R142s aren't able to run on the shuttle because the platforms are too miniscule to have an R142A stop there. The  currently operates with R62As linked from three-four car arrangements (I believe that's what it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong) instead of full-length trains. I don't think you could split the R142 into 5-car arrangements as they're still too long for the shuttle. 

It's the same reason why you haven't seen an R160 operate on the Franklin Shuttle before, not only due to being OPTO. They could theoretically operate on the Rockaway Park Shuttle, however it's also OPTO. 

And there's only a switch between Track 3 and Track 1. Track 2 was removed, and I believe any connection between Track 4 and Track 1 was probably removed when Track 2 went out of business. 

The  doesn't need NTTs in my opinion. Although it's heavily used, the current R62As do fine in handling the crowds. 

OPTO does not prevent the NTTs from running on certain lines. In fact, prior to the delivery of the 160s, the old shuttle used the 143s from the on weekends because they were better suited for one person train operation than the 42s, which were the standard car type for the line at the time.

15 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Why the hell do you need a study for that? It's a two track line which trains that just reverse. Calculate the cost and that's it. No need to study a bunch of other useless crap.

MTA wastefulness at its finest.

I'd imagine part of the study would've included determining how to convert the 62s for automation, which I imagine would be a pretty big undertaking.

33 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

They're extending the platform to six cars for this reconstruction project, so they could very easily use 142/142A equipment on the shuttle.

The plan, though, is to use the existing R62 cars, linked in to six-car sets.

It does make you wonder what they'll do when the 62s eventually retire. With the odd lengths of the Franklin Ave shuttle and the planned extension of 42nd Street, there will have to be specialized amendments for the car orders that will replace both the 62s and 68s.

[VIP]

13 hours ago, Lance said:

Typical.

OPTO does not prevent the NTTs from running on certain lines. In fact, prior to the delivery of the 160s, the old shuttle used the 143s from the on weekends because they were better suited for one person train operation than the 42s, which were the standard car type for the line at the time.

I'd imagine part of the study would've included determining how to convert the 62s for automation, which I imagine would be a pretty big undertaking.

It does make you wonder what they'll do when the 62s eventually retire. With the odd lengths of the Franklin Ave shuttle and the planned extension of 42nd Street, there will have to be specialized amendments for the car orders that will replace both the 62s and 68s.

I think some of Corona’s  six car R188’s will make their way after the R62’s retire and some of the new IRT NTT’s would be added to the  or the reverse. 

[paulrivera]

13 hours ago, Lance said:

Typical.

OPTO does not prevent the NTTs from running on certain lines. In fact, prior to the delivery of the 160s, the old shuttle used the 143s from the on weekends because they were better suited for one person train operation than the 42s, which were the standard car type for the line at the time.

I'd imagine part of the study would've included determining how to convert the 62s for automation, which I imagine would be a pretty big undertaking.

It does make you wonder what they'll do when the 62s eventually retire. With the odd lengths of the Franklin Ave shuttle and the planned extension of 42nd Street, there will have to be specialized amendments for the car orders that will replace both the 62s and 68s.

Franklin Avenue: It absolutely needs a custom car order. They might also need to extend the platforms about 50 feet to completely fit a 3 car 60-foot train. Knowing how frugal the  can be, however, they'll probably just convert it into an IRT line since 3 51-foot cars is just enough to fit onto the existing platforms and it seems like 75-foot cars are eventually gonna go the way of the dodo bird. Either way, they can have an NTT run through with no real issues.

42nd Street: Not so much (which is good). They can order 6-car consists for both the  and the 42nd  when the platforms for the latter get extended. By that time the  might need more cars anyway.

[MysteriousBtrain]

47 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Franklin Avenue: It absolutely needs a custom car order. They might also need to extend the platforms about 50 feet to completely fit a 3 car 60-foot train. Knowing how frugal the  can be, however, they'll probably just convert it into an IRT line since 3 51-foot cars is just enough to fit onto the existing platforms and it seems like 75-foot cars are eventually gonna go the way of the dodo bird. Either way, they can have an NTT run through with no real issues.

42nd Street: Not so much (which is good). They can order 6-car consists for both the  and the 42nd  when the platforms for the latter get extended. By that time the  might need more cars anyway.

Interesting plan.... So in recap, 6 car R188s to the , 5 cars likely displaced elsewhere ( ), and/or a separate 11-car order for the . 

While on the subject, how feasible would it be to extend the IRT cars to 56 Ft exclusively for the or even go to 60 ft with IRT dimensions.  (Actually I don't think it should be answered. If the 75 fters are going, how far would this plan even go?)

[BayParkwayW]

My assignment wood look like this:

Leave the  alone.

Take however many of those few R62  trains there are and put them back on the  (and convert all of them to half cabs because there’s still one T/O at each end to open and close both sides. Also gives more room for passengers).

Take existing R62As off the  and link them for use on the  , that way the  has a more consistent fleet.

Consider transferring 1921 and friends (the standing room cars) to the  to ease overcrowding.

[jon2305]

They've started to set barricades around the corridors that leads to the Shuttle platforms.

[Snowblock]

All NTT's can run in 4 to 6 car configurations per unit, and up to two units per train set. So you can have 4,5,6,8,9,10,11 or 12 car sets on the 142+

The R188's aren't going anywhere.

It also seems ridiculous to me to have 6 car sets on the  ... last I heard both ends were getting 5 car platforms, 2 tracks, throw some 62's or 142's on them and call it a day.

[Trainmaster5]

33 minutes ago, Snowblock said:

All NTT's can run in 4 to 6 car configurations per unit, and up to two units per train set. So you can have 4,5,6,8,9,10,11 or 12 car sets on the 142+

The R188's aren't going anywhere.

It also seems ridiculous to me to have 6 car sets on the  ... last I heard both ends were getting 5 car platforms, 2 tracks, throw some 62's or 142's on them and call it a day.

The shuttle has been using 10 cars forever,  albeit on 3 trains,  so why not use 2 five car trains?  Just asking because unless they foresee an increase in ridership why not use one 10 car consist instead of the oddball amount ? Any other reasoning behind this I don't pretend to know.  Carry on. 

[Lance]

I don't get it either, but that's part of the scope of the project according to the MTA. In fact, it's right there in black and white on the Capital Dashboard entry for the project.