Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Mysterious2train]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:00 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Polly needs to be replaced ASAP. The NYC DOT should be run by a person who really cares about the city's citizens and make changes that will reduce traffic congestion, NOT cause more congestion. We need someone like new MTA NYC Transit President Andy Byford to run the DOT, i.e: DOT version of Andy Byford.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 1:07 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Listen, We are stuck with her until 2020.. I would prefer Sam Schwartz to be commissioner. Sam makes a lot of sense to how the city streets should be controlled. However, yes we do need another Andy Byford to run the DOT..

 

On 3/22/2018 at 1:33 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Okay, but I wish you ran the MTA or NYC DOT. You seem more qualified than Polly Trottenberg. If you were transportation commissioner, then you can make the SBS work without shoving plans down the community's throat. You can make meaningful changes to the city streets that can actually reduce reduce congestion. SBS can actually be a benefit for everyone if done right.

Sometimes you need to ram things down communities' throats. How many bus lanes around the city faced opposition from locals? Even ignoring Woodhaven Blvd, I can think of Main St, Hylan Blvd and 125th St off the top of my head. Those latter two streets carry significant amounts of bus traffic, should the DOT have caved? I really don't want to live in a city where community boards can veto any bus lane they don't like. I can't always take bus lane opponents seriously. If it's a corridor like Hylan Blvd where many people drive, I can maybe understand where they're coming from, even if I don't agree. But even on corridors like 125th St or 161st St where most people around there don't even own cars, there was still loud opposition from car owners. Kind of makes it hard to believe they're working in the interests of the majority.

Why exactly do we hate her again? Is it her support of biking and pedestrianism? Schwartz supports them too. He's a big cyclist himself. He even proposed building 3 pedestrian/cyclist-only bridges from Manhattan to Brooklyn and NJ several years ago: http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2012/03/qa-with-gridlock-sam-schwartz-why-we-need-cyclistpedestrian-only-bridges/ His words in the article (which came out during Bloomberg's mayoralty) show support for Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan so we can probably assume he supports de Blasio and Trottenberg too. Perhaps he would implement bus lanes, bike lanes or other street changes differently than Trottenberg, but he supports them too.

Quote

We have a pro-biking mayor and a pro-biking transportation commissioner, but we may not in the future. This sets up a dedicated fund for for the bike paths. It’s only fair that bike riders pay for the maintenance. This strengthens the legitimacy of bikes as a viable transportation option in New York City.

If you go on Schwartz's website, it's very pro-bike and pro-pedestrian: http://samschwartz.com/white-papers/a-new-breed-of-pedestrian-advocate-is-making-city-streets-safer-for-everyone/

Quote

As cities such as New York recognize the need to stop treating pedestrians as second-class citizens, the Pedestrian/Traffic Manager (PTM) has emerged as a new tool in the effort to improve the mobility and safety of those on foot.

Throughout North America, cities are recognizing the need to stop treating pedestrians as second-class citizens. For the first time since auto-centric planning began to take hold several decades ago, the mobility and safety of pedestrians is being given as much attention as motorized vehicles, as the movement to create livable streets gains momentum.

New York City is a prime example of how the pedestrian has begun to triumph over the motor vehicle. It was just a short time ago, in places like Times Square and Herald Square where pedestrians were forced to squeeze into narrow sidewalk space, often spilling into the streets to battle it out with oncoming cars and buses. This practice has thankfully been replaced with bike lanes and pedestrian plazas which have improved the quality of life and safety for residents and visitors to the area. Along with the increase in pedestrian space, a new tool has emerged to help increase pedestrian safety: the Pedestrian/Traffic Manager—an individual trained and certified exclusively in the movement and safety of pedestrians in high density areas.

 

And Trottenberg clearly cares about mass transit, she wouldn't be on the MTA Board if she wasn't. I do think she should have been more vocal in her support of congestion pricing initally, but I can understand her not wanting to contradict her boss until he came around to it. The DOT is far from perfect, but good lord is the Trottenberg hate in here overblown. Or at the very least, if you're going to hate Trottenberg, you should probably hate Schwartz too.

 

 

[Brillant93]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious2train said:

 

 

Sometimes you need to ram things down communities' throats. How many bus lanes around the city faced opposition from locals? Even ignoring Woodhaven Blvd, I can think of Main St, Hylan Blvd and 125th St off the top of my head. Those latter two streets carry significant amounts of bus traffic, should the DOT have caved? I really don't want to live in a city where community boards can veto any bus lane they don't like. I can't always take bus lane opponents seriously. If it's a corridor like Hylan Blvd where many people drive, I can maybe understand where they're coming from, even if I don't agree. But even on corridors like 125th St or 161st St where most people around there don't even own cars, there was still loud opposition from car owners. Kind of makes it hard to believe they're working in the interests of the majority.

Why exactly do we hate her again? Is it her support of biking and pedestrianism? Schwartz supports them too. He's a big cyclist himself. He even proposed building 3 pedestrian/cyclist-only bridges from Manhattan to Brooklyn and NJ several years ago: http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2012/03/qa-with-gridlock-sam-schwartz-why-we-need-cyclistpedestrian-only-bridges/ His words in the article (which came out during Bloomberg's mayoralty) show support for Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan so we can probably assume he supports de Blasio and Trottenberg too. Perhaps he would implement bus lanes, bike lanes or other street changes differently than Trottenberg, but he supports them too.

If you go on Schwartz's website, it's very pro-bike and pro-pedestrian: http://samschwartz.com/white-papers/a-new-breed-of-pedestrian-advocate-is-making-city-streets-safer-for-everyone/

 

And Trottenberg clearly cares about mass transit, she wouldn't be on the MTA Board if she wasn't. I do think she should have been more vocal in her support of congestion pricing initally, but I can understand her not wanting to contradict her boss until he came around to it. The DOT is far from perfect, but good lord is the Trottenberg hate in here overblown. Or at the very least, if you're going to hate Trottenberg, you should probably hate Schwartz too.

 

 

I see it this way. We are a very densely populated city and its probably going to become more densely populated as more people start to move further out because of the high rents. Our streets are very overcrowded with trucks and cars all going to the same place and for the same space. Cities like Seattle and Portland are overtaking NYC in transit because they actually are trying to better their transportation. Here in NYC our buses are the slowest in the nation and its because nothing is being done. When things are proposed such as bus lanes, congestion pricing, and so on a lot of motorists are upset. Where's the compromise? 

 

[BrooklynBus]

34 minutes ago, Mysterious2train said:

Sometimes you need to ram things down communities' throats. How many bus lanes around the city faced opposition from locals? Even ignoring Woodhaven Blvd, I can think of Main St, Hylan Blvd and 125th St off the top of my head. Those latter two streets carry significant amounts of bus traffic, should the DOT have caved? I really don't want to live in a city where community boards can veto any bus lane they don't like. I can't always take bus lane opponents seriously. If it's a corridor like Hylan Blvd where many people drive, I can maybe understand where they're coming from, even if I don't agree. But even on corridors like 125th St or 161st St where most people around there don't even own cars, there was still loud opposition from car owners. Kind of makes it hard to believe they're working in the interests of the majority.

Why exactly do we hate her again? Is it her support of biking and pedestrianism? Schwartz supports them too. He's a big cyclist himself. He even proposed building 3 pedestrian/cyclist-only bridges from Manhattan to Brooklyn and NJ several years ago: http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2012/03/qa-with-gridlock-sam-schwartz-why-we-need-cyclistpedestrian-only-bridges/ His words in the article (which came out during Bloomberg's mayoralty) show support for Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan so we can probably assume he supports de Blasio and Trottenberg too. Perhaps he would implement bus lanes, bike lanes or other street changes differently than Trottenberg, but he supports them too.

If you go on Schwartz's website, it's very pro-bike and pro-pedestrian: http://samschwartz.com/white-papers/a-new-breed-of-pedestrian-advocate-is-making-city-streets-safer-for-everyone/

And Trottenberg clearly cares about mass transit, she wouldn't be on the MTA Board if she wasn't. I do think she should have been more vocal in her support of congestion pricing initally, but I can understand her not wanting to contradict her boss until he came around to it. The DOT is far from perfect, but good lord is the Trottenberg hate in here overblown. Or at the very least, if you're going to hate Trottenberg, you should probably hate Schwartz too.

No. There is no excuse for ramming anything down a community's throat. We supposedly live in a democracy and everyone needs to be heard. By the same token, that doesn't mean communities should control everything. Sometimes their opposition can be irrational, but it is the City's/MTA's job to convince them to come around using sound data. 

I have been on both sides and can agree that at times communities can be a pain in the neck, but that is no reason to ignore them. The reason why so many MTA / DOT proposals are opposed by many communities is simple. Many are just bad ideas and proper data is never presented to get communities to change their minds so there if often unnecessary confrontation. 

As far as Schwartz and Trottenberg, I have spoken to both of them personally. I believe Schwartz is overrated in what he actually knows and I am no fan of his. Although I dislike what Trottenberg stands for and what she has done, I do not believe she is the problem. She strikes me as a nice person who is just doing what her boss, the mayor has told her to do. He is the problem, not her. If she were commissioner under a different mayor with different priorities, I believe she would be totally different. De Blasio has given her instructions to step over communities and ignore their concerns, and that's what she is doing. 

I have not formed an opinion regarding her stand on mass transit because I have not seen her take any position other than questioning having to make decisions on the Board without first being presented with enough factual data. 

But your assumption that she has to care about mass transit to have been appointed to the Board is totally naive. The decision to put her on the board was purely a political one. The MTA is still claiming they can't make buses run any faster because they have no control over traffic despite the fact that the head of DOT is on their board. 

[Deucey]

So how is M34 "select bus service" if it still stops at every block like the old M34?

[Brillant93]

Just now, Deucey said:

So how is M34 "select bus service" if it still stops at every block like the old M34?

Bus lanes, off board payment, probably tsp, and labeled as sbs. A lot of the cross town sbs stop at the same stops as the old local route. Just pay before you get on board. 

[BrooklynBus]

38 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So how is M34 "select bus service" if it still stops at every block like the old M34?

Only needs two features to qualify.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/23/2018 at 6:10 PM, BrooklynBus said:

No. There is no excuse for ramming anything down a community's throat. We supposedly live in a democracy and everyone needs to be heard. By the same token, that doesn't mean communities should control everything. Sometimes their opposition can be irrational, but it is the City's/MTA's job to convince them to come around using sound data. 

I have been on both sides and can agree that at times communities can be a pain in the neck, but that is no reason to ignore them. The reason why so many MTA / DOT proposals are opposed by many communities is simple. Many are just bad ideas and proper data is never presented to get communities to change their minds so there if often unnecessary confrontation. 

As far as Schwartz and Trottenberg, I have spoken to both of them personally. I believe Schwartz is overrated in what he actually knows and I am no fan of his. Although I dislike what Trottenberg stands for and what she has done, I do not believe she is the problem. She strikes me as a nice person who is just doing what her boss, the mayor has told her to do. He is the problem, not her. If she were commissioner under a different mayor with different priorities, I believe she would be totally different. De Blasio has given her instructions to step over communities and ignore their concerns, and that's what she is doing. 

I have not formed an opinion regarding her stand on mass transit because I have not seen her take any position other than questioning having to make decisions on the Board without first being presented with enough factual data. 

But your assumption that she has to care about mass transit to have been appointed to the Board is totally naive. The decision to put her on the board was purely a political one. The MTA is still claiming they can't make buses run any faster because they have no control over traffic despite the fact that the head of DOT is on their board. 

It should be pretty easy to take a stance on Trottenberg... She's a puppet. The DOT is currently involved with a project in my neighborhood, but downhill along Broadway.  Since I don't live near there, I haven't been involved personally, but I've been reading about what's been going on, and that part of the neighborhood is furious that the DOT supposedly listened to their concerns at various community meetings and then proceeded to blatantly dismiss them and take the stance that they know best what's good for them, so you are right about her enforcing his agenda.  

[BrooklynBus]

47 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It should be pretty easy to take a stance on Trottenberg... She's a puppet. The DOT is currently involved with a project in my neighborhood, but downhill along Broadway.  Since I don't live near there, I haven't been involved personally, but I've been reading about what's been going on, and that part of the neighborhood is furious that the DOT supposedly listened to their concerns at various community meetings and then proceeded to blatantly dismiss them and take the stance that they know best what's good for them, so you are right about her enforcing his agenda.  

Exactly. Just got a notice about a meeting at the Plumb Beach Civic Association that DOT wants to replace angle parking on Emmons Ave with a bike lane. The community will be 100 % against this and is get it goes through. De Blasio previously stated they would not put in bike lanes when the cmmunities request them. That reasoning may have worked for Park Slope and Williamsburg but Queens has been against them and they were put in anyway. 

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

So how is M34 "select bus service" if it still stops at every block like the old M34?

I think they consolidated Madison & Park. Also, since it has off-board payment and bus lanes, it qualifies.

[B35 via Church]

Shao Khan, Sam Schwarzenegger, Polly wanna cracker... Good lord, now I've seen the names from perusing different articles & some posts on here in the past, but I can't be the only one in here going, who in the hell are these people exactly....

Yes, people make results happen (or are supposed to anyway), but I'm more interested in putting stock on the(ir) results than on the people themselves....

[Deucey]

28 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think they consolidated Madison & Park. Also, since it has off-board payment and bus lanes, it qualifies.

 

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Only needs two features to qualify.

Style over substance then?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think they consolidated Madison & Park. Also, since it has off-board payment and bus lanes, it qualifies.

I believe Park Avenue has been eliminated from every crosstown route even if there is no SBS. 

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I believe Park Avenue has been eliminated from every crosstown route even if there is no SBS. 

The M23 & M34/M34A stops at Park. Lexington Avenue was removed from the 23rd & 34th Street SBS routes.

[Kingjunior34]

The sbs machine stands are up they  are currently 2 of them at Flatlands and remsen spring creek bound 

[Brillant93]

27 minutes ago, Kingjunior34 said:

The sbs machine stands are up they  are currently 2 of them at Flatlands and remsen spring creek bound 

I saw them too. They have yet to finish up the rest of the route. I also noticed they’re trying to put bus bulbs on the B46 sbs on Utica and kings hwy and Utica and avenue N. 

[Kingjunior34]

Also I herd that the new Nova Lfs artic 2017-2018 will be sent to ENY for the b82sbs along with Gun Hill and Michael J Quill , but others are saying the b82sbs will use xd40s until there are new xd60s which is true ?

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

5 minutes ago, Kingjunior34 said:

Also I herd that the new Nova Lfs artic 2017-2018 will be sent to ENY for the b82sbs along with Gun Hill and Michael J Quill , but others are saying the b82sbs will use xd40s until there are new xd60s which is true ?

The LFSAs won't be going to ENY.

IIRC, #6109-6125 will be going to ENY at some point, although someone had said earlier that the B82 SBS will be using XD40s when it starts. Not sure if that's changed since then or not...

[Cait Sith]

At the rate things are going, anything is possible. Let's just wait and see.

[Brillant93]

17 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

The LFSAs won't be going to ENY.

IIRC, #6109-6125 will be going to ENY at some point, although someone had said earlier that the B82 SBS will be using XD40s when it starts. Not sure if that's changed since then or not...

If it did ENY and The Real would let us know. Gut feeling the next order of the LFSA would go to Manhattan and the Bronx to bump out the rest of the older LFSA buses and retire the D60s. Until bus company get their buses ENY artics will be scattered. I think half are going to Quill for the time being and the other half is on the Q52 sbs. 

[Kingjunior34]

10 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

If it did ENY and The Real would let us know. Gut feeling the next order of the LFSA would go to Manhattan and the Bronx to bump out the rest of the older LFSA buses and retire the D60s. Until bus company get their buses ENY artics will be scattered. I think half are going to Quill for the time being and the other half is on the Q52 sbs. 

But doesn’t the Queens depot only want and only use new flyer xd60s for their artic routes hence why they converted  the Q44 to an xd60 route, so I don’t the Lfs will go to the Q52 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Kingjunior34

[Cait Sith]

4 minutes ago, Kingjunior34 said:

But doesn’t the Queens depot only want and only use new flyer xd60s for their artic routes hence why they covered the Q44 to an xd60 route, so I don’t the Lfs will go to the Q52 

No. Stengel got XD60s for maintenance purposes, as parts for the XD60s are compatible with the XD40s, therefore, lowers the cost in maintenance.

JFK's first XD60s were from the MTA Bus order that New Flyer unanimously won. The SBS XD60s that are there now were not supposed to be in Queens originally.

The original plan was for Queens(apart from MTA Bus) to be all Novas. Stengel would've had 40ft LFSs, but they had to expedite the retirement of the Orion Vs, so they tacked on an extra number of buses that was already in the process of being built and delivered by New Flyer.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Cait Sith

[Brillant93]

9 minutes ago, Kingjunior34 said:

But doesn’t the Queens depot only want and only use new flyer xd60s for their artic routes hence why they converted  the Q44 to an xd60 route, so I don’t the Lfs will go to the Q52 

 

6 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

No. Stengel got XD60s for maintenance purposes, as parts for the XD60s are compatible with the XD40s, therefore, lowers the cost in maintenance.

JFK's first XD60s were from the MTA Bus order that New Flyer unanimously won. The SBS XD60s that are there now were not supposed to be in Queens originally.

Skimping over the forums pages from the past year (since I'm new) yes CS depot got their XD60s due to logistics and I believe they ended up retiring all the orion v's. They were apart of the 2016-2017 XD60 order and their buses are with them right now. I'm not sure when the Q52/Q53 was supposed to originally launch but the B82 I recalled was supposed to start in 2017 but was pushed back for more buses. If the currently LFSA delayed in delivery played a part correct me on that but I believe it did I don't think JFK or LGA would have TA's XD60s. Something happened to why the XD60s are on loan. Basing off of the fleet and depot thread TA won't get their buses back until late next year because the 53 XD60s are supposed to be arriving for bus company which would give the Q52 and 53 their own buses for the route. 

Also I believe the B44 sbs would be converting its LFSA fleet into XD60s as well due to the same reason why they converted the Q44 sbs, for maintenance purposes. 

[Cait Sith]

12 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

 

Skimping over the forums pages from the past year (since I'm new) yes CS depot got their XD60s due to logistics and I believe they ended up retiring all the orion v's. They were apart of the 2016-2017 XD60 order and their buses are with them right now. I'm not sure when the Q52/Q53 was supposed to originally launch but the B82 I recalled was supposed to start in 2017 but was pushed back for more buses. If the currently LFSA delayed in delivery played a part correct me on that but I believe it did I don't think JFK or LGA would have TA's XD60s. Something happened to why the XD60s are on loan. Basing off of the fleet and depot thread TA won't get their buses back until late next year because the 53 XD60s are supposed to be arriving for bus company which would give the Q52 and 53 their own buses for the route. 

Also I believe the B44 sbs would be converting its LFSA fleet into XD60s as well due to the same reason why they converted the Q44 sbs, for maintenance purposes. 

MTA and DOT expedited the Q52/Q53 SBS, hence why those artics are there. They have a order of buses of their own XD60s on the way and at the time they wanted to launch SBS on Woodhaven Blvd, those buses would not have been built at the time.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Cait Sith

[Brillant93]

Just now, Cait Sith said:

MTA and DOT expedited the Q52/Q53 SBS, hence why those artics are there. They have a order of buses of their own XD60s on the way and at the time they wanted to launch SBS on Woodhaven Blvd, those buses would not have been built at the time.

Thank you for the correction. 

[BreeddekalbL]

@EastFlatbushLarry or any operator who has done or currently does sbs routes, i remember asking an operator a while back a question and they mentioned that you guys are supposedly to dip ur employee cards in the machine when you relieve an sbs operator, any truth to that?