Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[BrooklynBus]

Just posted on Facebook

Assemblyman Steven Cymbrowitz — New York State Assemblymember for District 45

53 mins · 

I was just informed that the MTA has decided to delay implementation of the B82 SBS plan in the wake of strong community concerns. Although the MTA says it will still pursue this controversial plan, I will continue to advocate for an alternative solution that does not negatively impact the community. My appreciation to my colleagues in government -- Councilmembers Kalman Yeger, Mark Treyger and Chaim Deutsch, Assemblymembers William Colton and Helene Weinstein, and Senator Marty Golden -- for working in partnership with me on this important issue. The people of the community deserve a big thank you as well for speaking up loudly and persistently and letting the city know how you feel.

[Interested Rider]

17 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

But you have to understand the transfers it could make for people. Why would they route it on avenue P and its missing the B, Q, and N train stations? You can't just expect people to just walk. Its way to convenient for people. Someone needs to go to the doctors office on kings hwy they could hop on the bus. Its a business corridor. You think you'll lose business without parking spaces a lot more if you take the 82 off of kings hwy. On top of that why would they go through that when they already started and finished construction of the sbs ticket machines at the stops along kings hwy? 

I  will respond to the points that you raise as follows:

In terms of transfer points, there are two routes that are impacted; The B/68 at Coney Island Avenue which is a regular  local route and stops at Avenue P. Ocean Avenue going westbound there will be no impact as it is already an existing stop at that location. The eastbound stop could be located closer to East 19th Street on Avenue P so transfer to the B/49 is not impacted.

The bus does not miss the B/Q station. What you have here is similar to the B/36 stop at the Sheepshead Bay Station which occurred some time ago and is approximately the same distance to the station. What occurred here is the precedent has been set by the MTA and NYCDOT that bus routes do not have to stop directly at the station and the community knows it. Brooklyn Bus, myself and many others discussed this in a thread involving the B/36 on this forum sometime ago. The routing via Avenue P to West 6th Street does not impact upon the N line as the Station is between West 7th  and West 8th Streets and the B/82 will continue to stop at the station.

As i stated in a previous post, this is a very politically powerful community and that the meeting with Andy Byford this past Wednesday was the tip off how this community uses it in situations like this. i had the feeling that something was up when I wrote my last two posts based on the report in kingscountypoliticscom as I do not have any recollection of this happening  over the many years  I have been  following transit. it seems that the meeting has already bore fruit as the MTA has agreed to delay the implementation of the B/82 from  this July. When i wrote my post about the  B/82 being reouted to Avenue P, I had the feeling that someone  in the agency underestimated the political power of this community.  I remain convinced that the community will get what it wants and if it means that the B/82 will be rerouted to Avenue P between West 6th Street and Ocean Avenue.

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Just posted on Facebook

Assemblyman Steven Cymbrowitz — New York State Assemblymember for District 45

53 mins · 

I was just informed that the MTA has decided to delay implementation of the B82 SBS plan in the wake of strong community concerns. Although the MTA says it will still pursue this controversial plan, I will continue to advocate for an alternative solution that does not negatively impact the community. My appreciation to my colleagues in government -- Councilmembers Kalman Yeger, Mark Treyger and Chaim Deutsch, Assemblymembers William Colton and Helene Weinstein, and Senator Marty Golden -- for working in partnership with me on this important issue. The people of the community deserve a big thank you as well for speaking up loudly and persistently and letting the city know how you feel.

...... Definitely breaking news. So as of right now. No-GO on the SBS82 implementation for July

Monkey wrench on the current bus order....

[Cait Sith]

3 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

...... Definitely breaking news. So as of right now. No-GO on the SBS82 implementation for July

Monkey wrench on the current bus order....

Not really. Those buses could be used for other means.

[T J Trainman]

Uh oh. This could be big. I could see FLA getting a double SBS XD40 order. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just now, T J Trainman said:

Uh oh. This could be big. I could see FLA getting a double SBS XD40 order. 

You know these buses can always be wrapped for local service.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Just posted on Facebook

Assemblyman Steven Cymbrowitz — New York State Assemblymember for District 45

53 mins · 

I was just informed that the MTA has decided to delay implementation of the B82 SBS plan in the wake of strong community concerns. Although the MTA says it will still pursue this controversial plan, I will continue to advocate for an alternative solution that does not negatively impact the community. My appreciation to my colleagues in government -- Councilmembers Kalman Yeger, Mark Treyger and Chaim Deutsch, Assemblymembers William Colton and Helene Weinstein, and Senator Marty Golden -- for working in partnership with me on this important issue. The people of the community deserve a big thank you as well for speaking up loudly and persistently and letting the city know how you feel.

Not that I care for SBS, but I find it funny that western Brooklyn (moreso than eastern Brooklyn) were the same folks that even wanted the B82/LTD to begin with - and to see that they're the more vocal of the bunch when it comes down to not being all that in favor of SBS... Especially realizing that B82 riders on the eastern portion of the route are rather fond of the upcoming SBS..... It's ironic as hell, to say the least......

[Brillant93]

7 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

I  will respond to the points that you raise as follows:

In terms of transfer points, there are two routes that are impacted; The B/68 at Coney Island Avenue which is a regular  local route and stops at Avenue P. Ocean Avenue going westbound there will be no impact as it is already an existing stop at that location. The eastbound stop could be located closer to East 19th Street on Avenue P so transfer to the B/49 is not impacted.

The bus does not miss the B/Q station. What you have here is similar to the B/36 stop at the Sheepshead Bay Station which occurred some time ago and is approximately the same distance to the station. What occurred here is the precedent has been set by the MTA and NYCDOT that bus routes do not have to stop directly at the station and the community knows it. Brooklyn Bus, myself and many others discussed this in a thread involving the B/36 on this forum sometime ago. The routing via Avenue P to West 6th Street does not impact upon the N line as the Station is between West 7th  and West 8th Streets and the B/82 will continue to stop at the station.

As i stated in a previous post, this is a very politically powerful community and that the meeting with Andy Byford this past Wednesday was the tip off how this community uses it in situations like this. i had the feeling that something was up when I wrote my last two posts based on the report in kingscountypoliticscom as I do not have any recollection of this happening  over the many years  I have been  following transit. it seems that the meeting has already bore fruit as the MTA has agreed to delay the implementation of the B/82 from  this July. When i wrote my post about the  B/82 being reouted to Avenue P, I had the feeling that someone  in the agency underestimated the political power of this community.  I remain convinced that the community will get what it wants and if it means that the B/82 will be rerouted to Avenue P between West 6th Street and Ocean Avenue.

I could see the the B82 sbs going along avenue P but I cannot see Kings Hwy not having a bus route at all. If the community feels like bus lanes would hurt businesses taking the route off of kings hwy would only further hurt because it stops along a business corridor making it easier for people to get on and off by a business. Maybe the B82 local on kings hwy and sbs on avenue P? Still I wouldn't think they would reroute the entire thing for just one community. Its a route that serves as a crosstown and there are lots of others who need that bus service. 

[Brillant93]

9 minutes ago, T J Trainman said:

Uh oh. This could be big. I could see FLA getting a double SBS XD40 order. 

ENY can still use the buses for whatever but we don't know how far its delayed, could be a month or next year. 

[BrooklynBus]

46 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I could see the the B82 sbs going along avenue P but I cannot see Kings Hwy not having a bus route at all. If the community feels like bus lanes would hurt businesses taking the route off of kings hwy would only further hurt because it stops along a business corridor making it easier for people to get on and off by a business. Maybe the B82 local on kings hwy and sbs on avenue P? Still I wouldn't think they would reroute the entire thing for just one community. Its a route that serves as a crosstown and there are lots of others who need that bus service. 

No one suggested removing all buses from Kings Highway. The SBS could be moved to Avenue P and they could maintain some Limiteds on Kings Highway between 7:30 and 8:30 AM westbound and from 5:30 to 6:30 PM eastbound. 

 

44 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

ENY can still use the buses for whatever but we don't know how far its delayed, could be a month or next year. 

The minimum delay would be until the next pick in September. 

[Brillant93]

6 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

No one suggested removing all buses from Kings Highway. The SBS could be moved to Avenue P and they could maintain some Limiteds on Kings Highway between 7:30 and 8:30 AM westbound and from 5:30 to 6:30 PM eastbound. 

 

The minimum delay would be until the next pick in September. 

Why would they keep a limited on kings hwy while an sbs would be on avenue p? That would defeat the purpose of sbs. Maybe just keep the local on kings hwy and the sbs be on avenue p but even still that wouldn't make sense to be to have people walk a greater distance to an express service. 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

I  will respond to the points that you raise as follows:

In terms of transfer points, there are two routes that are impacted; The B/68 at Coney Island Avenue which is a regular  local route and stops at Avenue P. Ocean Avenue going westbound there will be no impact as it is already an existing stop at that location. The eastbound stop could be located closer to East 19th Street on Avenue P so transfer to the B/49 is not impacted.

The bus does not miss the B/Q station. What you have here is similar to the B/36 stop at the Sheepshead Bay Station which occurred some time ago and is approximately the same distance to the station. What occurred here is the precedent has been set by the MTA and NYCDOT that bus routes do not have to stop directly at the station and the community knows it. Brooklyn Bus, myself and many others discussed this in a thread involving the B/36 on this forum sometime ago. The routing via Avenue P to West 6th Street does not impact upon the N line as the Station is between West 7th  and West 8th Streets and the B/82 will continue to stop at the station.

As i stated in a previous post, this is a very politically powerful community and that the meeting with Andy Byford this past Wednesday was the tip off how this community uses it in situations like this. i had the feeling that something was up when I wrote my last two posts based on the report in kingscountypoliticscom as I do not have any recollection of this happening  over the many years  I have been  following transit. it seems that the meeting has already bore fruit as the MTA has agreed to delay the implementation of the B/82 from  this July. When i wrote my post about the  B/82 being reouted to Avenue P, I had the feeling that someone  in the agency underestimated the political power of this community.  I remain convinced that the community will get what it wants and if it means that the B/82 will be rerouted to Avenue P between West 6th Street and Ocean Avenue.

I opposed the B 36 reroute to make riders walk further as you know, but I am in favor of the SBS on Avenue P although the walk is much longer like 500 feet as compared to about 150 feet. As I previously mentioned, they could also maintain some Limited service on Kings Highway during the peak in the peak direction for the subway commuters. 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Not that I care for SBS, but I find it funny that western Brooklyn (moreso than eastern Brooklyn) were the same folks that even wanted the B82/LTD to begin with - and to see that they're the more vocal of the bunch when it comes down to not being all that in favor of SBS... Especially realizing that B82 riders on the eastern portion of the route are rather fond of the upcoming SBS..... It's ironic as hell, to say the least......

Do you know if any Board voted in favor of SBS? 

6 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Why would they keep a limited on kings hwy while an sbs would be on avenue p? That would defeat the purpose of sbs. Maybe just keep the local on kings hwy and the sbs be on avenue p but even still that wouldn't make sense to be to have people walk a greater distance to an express service. 

When SBS was first proposed in 2003, it was supposed to supplement Limited service, not replace it. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

The SBS could be moved to Avenue P

Then this might as well be a new SBS route replacing the B82 then. B85 probably. It's already confusing enough using the uptown B44. 

 

Or reroute the B82 to Av P and extend all B7 trips to bay parkway to replace service. Or just bring the B5 back and add SBS stops east of Canarsie. 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Do you know if any Board voted in favor of SBS?

I haven't been up on on-goings of certain CB's lately (the ones I usually pay the most attention to anyway), but generally speaking, as far as the past goes, Nope.... Not one.

Some are focused on express service, but most are focused on local service.... That says a lot about the supposed panacea that is SBS.

[Interested Rider]

Something is in the works involving the B/82 select bus and I think that the answer is coming from this thread.

The issue is the B/82 SBS and the disruption that it will cause to the Kings Highway business district.   It is when the special bus lanes and elimination of the parking spaces were proposed that the community went ballistic. By taking the B/82 select bus (not the local B/82 bus)  off Kings Highway from West 6th Street to Ocean Avenue,  it means that the bus lanes are dead and most likely the elimination of the parking spaces for bus stops. as the SBS is rerouted via Avenue P. This takes these two issues off the table. 

One of the points that the MTA made in justifying the B/82 SBS was this portion of Kings Highway was a major choke point which delays the route. The Avenue P option eliminates that problem and improves running time (another issue). If the artics are confined to the B/82 SBS (just like the B/44 SBS), then another problem is resolved as the B/82 local service remains with 40 footers. As far the running time is concerned, the Avenue P option improves the running time for the SBS service as compared with the limited service which is the same argument that was used to justify the B/44 SBS. To get a look at how the B/82  SBS will be operated just take a look at the B/44 local and SBS are currently operating now.

It  will  be the B/82 SBS via Avenue P between Ocean Avenue and West 6th Street and it will start either in September 2018 or January 2019. The B/82 local will remain as it is now.

[Brillant93]

13 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

Something is in the works involving the B/82 select bus and I think that the answer is coming from this thread.

The issue is the B/82 SBS and the disruption that it will cause to the Kings Highway business district.   It is when the special bus lanes and elimination of the parking spaces were proposed that the community went ballistic. By taking the B/82 select bus (not the local B/82 bus)  off Kings Highway from West 6th Street to Ocean Avenue,  it means that the bus lanes are dead and most likely the elimination of the parking spaces for bus stops. as the SBS is rerouted via Avenue P. This takes these two issues off the table. 

One of the points that the MTA made in justifying the B/82 SBS was this portion of Kings Highway was a major choke point which delays the route. The Avenue P option eliminates that problem and improves running time (another issue). If the artics are confined to the B/82 SBS (just like the B/44 SBS), then another problem is resolved as the B/82 local service remains with 40 footers. As far the running time is concerned, the Avenue P option improves the running time for the SBS service as compared with the limited service which is the same argument that was used to justify the B/44 SBS. To get a look at how the B/82  SBS will be operated just take a look at the B/44 local and SBS are currently operating now.

It  will  be the B/82 SBS via Avenue P between Ocean Avenue and West 6th Street and it will start either in September 2018 or January 2019. The B/82 local will remain as it is now.

At this point I could see that as well but only like 40% chance of that happening. Reason being is that they already started installing the sbs machines on the eastern end of the route, construction of the street designs are starting soon, and taking the sbs off of kings hwy would leave those cones for future sbs machines idle and would cost more money to take them out. Then they would have to do more studies and outreach to those who live on avenue p and inform them there’s a bus route in their area. If anything the only logical result I can see is no small bus lanes from ocean avenue to bay parkway. Too much money and time would be spent trying to reserve everything. It would be another few years before they start a route on avenue p. 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Then this might as well be a new SBS route replacing the B82 then. B85 probably. It's already confusing enough using the uptown B44. 

Or reroute the B82 to Av P and extend all B7 trips to bay parkway to replace service. Or just bring the B5 back and add SBS stops east of Canarsie. 

Rerouting all B82s to Avenue P would not be a good idea. What you call it is secondary. The major point is why do we need this at all? 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I haven't been up on on-goings of certain CB's lately (the ones I usually pay the most attention to anyway), but generally speaking, as far as the past goes, Nope.... Not one.

Some are focused on express service, but most are focused on local service.... That says a lot about the supposed panacea that is SBS.

I know CB 11, 15, and 18 were against it. Don't know about the others. If every board voted against it and it's still going through, that ought to tell you something. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by BrooklynBus

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

Something is in the works involving the B/82 select bus and I think that the answer is coming from this thread.

The issue is the B/82 SBS and the disruption that it will cause to the Kings Highway business district.   It is when the special bus lanes and elimination of the parking spaces were proposed that the community went ballistic. By taking the B/82 select bus (not the local B/82 bus)  off Kings Highway from West 6th Street to Ocean Avenue,  it means that the bus lanes are dead and most likely the elimination of the parking spaces for bus stops. as the SBS is rerouted via Avenue P. This takes these two issues off the table. 

One of the points that the MTA made in justifying the B/82 SBS was this portion of Kings Highway was a major choke point which delays the route. The Avenue P option eliminates that problem and improves running time (another issue). If the artics are confined to the B/82 SBS (just like the B/44 SBS), then another problem is resolved as the B/82 local service remains with 40 footers. As far the running time is concerned, the Avenue P option improves the running time for the SBS service as compared with the limited service which is the same argument that was used to justify the B/44 SBS. To get a look at how the B/82  SBS will be operated just take a look at the B/44 local and SBS are currently operating now.

It  will  be the B/82 SBS via Avenue P between Ocean Avenue and West 6th Street and it will start either in September 2018 or January 2019. The B/82 local will remain as it is now.

Actually, Avenue P is no bargain during the rush hours either. I think if the SBS runs there, there should be a peak directional curbside bus lane there for at least one hour. 

[officiallyliam]

41 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Actually, Avenue P is no bargain during the rush hours either. I think if the SBS runs there, there should be a peak directional curbside bus lane there for at least one hour. 

What about offset bus lanes along Avenue P, allowing for the higher-capacity SBS stops with bus bulbs?

B82 SBS buses would operate in both directions via Avenue P, with locals via Kings Highway; perhaps the rush-hour B7 extension along Kings Highway could be made permanent or extended on to Bay Parkway to make up for the loss of limited B82 service.

Also, just because the full SBS treatment as-proposed might not be right for Kings Highway (at least per the community), that doesn't mean that Kings Highway should receive no bus improvements at all. Queue-jump lanes, partnered with bus-only signals and/or signal priority at intersections could speed up local service, since even a reroute of the faster B82 service will no obviate the need for better bus service along busy Kings Highway.

[BrooklynBus]

5 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

What about offset bus lanes along Avenue P, allowing for the higher-capacity SBS stops with bus bulbs?

B82 SBS buses would operate in both directions via Avenue P, with locals via Kings Highway; perhaps the rush-hour B7 extension along Kings Highway could be made permanent or extended on to Bay Parkway to make up for the loss of limited B82 service.

Also, just because the full SBS treatment as-proposed might not be right for Kings Highway (at least per the community), that doesn't mean that Kings Highway should receive no bus improvements at all. Queue-jump lanes, partnered with bus-only signals and/or signal priority at intersections could speed up local service, since even a reroute of the faster B82 service will no obviate the need for better bus service along busy Kings Highway.

Avenue P cannot afford the loss of two traffic lanes. Curbside bus lanes only in rush hour is the only possibility. Personally, I don't have a problem with the queue jump lanes on Kings Highway if the parking can be replaced. The biggest mistake was selling off the municipal parking lot. Without that lot, the community can't afford the loss of any more parking. It's already critically low with no spaces empty for more than 30 seconds. 

[checkmatechamp13]

10 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

What about offset bus lanes along Avenue P, allowing for the higher-capacity SBS stops with bus bulbs?

B82 SBS buses would operate in both directions via Avenue P, with locals via Kings Highway; perhaps the rush-hour B7 extension along Kings Highway could be made permanent or extended on to Bay Parkway to make up for the loss of limited B82 service.

Also, just because the full SBS treatment as-proposed might not be right for Kings Highway (at least per the community), that doesn't mean that Kings Highway should receive no bus improvements at all. Queue-jump lanes, partnered with bus-only signals and/or signal priority at intersections could speed up local service, since even a reroute of the faster B82 service will no obviate the need for better bus service along busy Kings Highway.

The B7 runs pretty much the whole day in that area now, not just rush hour (I believe they expanded it around 2004 or so). 

[BreeddekalbL]

14 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I know CB 11, 15, and 18 were against it. Don't know about the others. If every board voted against it and it's still going through, that ought to tell you something. 

Didn't you learn when they shoved sbs on the q52 q53 deblasio screamed that it will be done in the name of his precious vision zero?  we should know that by now. 

[BrooklynBus]

14 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Didn't you learn when they shoved sbs on the q52 q53 deblasio screamed that it will be done in the name of his precious vision zero?  we should know that by now. 

And the only reason why they tied it to Vision Zero was to be able to use those funds for SBS instead, when SBS has nothing at all to do with Vision Zero.

[BreeddekalbL]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

And the only reason why they tied it to Vision Zero was to be able to use those funds for SBS instead, when SBS has nothing at all to do with Vision Zero.

i agree hope a candidate in 21 who will run against deblasio aligned candidate will repeal vision zero

[Interested Rider]

What I find in the presentations and the posts both here and in the print and internet postings is that no one understands  anything about the community that is in opposition to the B/82 sbs and the power that they have concerning the change.

This is a very rich community that is now n a mixture of old time and new time money. Unlike other communities, the community is all about business along with their strong commitment to family and their heritage which  is what binds this community together. When you see them on the street, they dress no differently than anyone else except with the head is possibly covered. The community takes education seriously but prefers to remain in the background politically as you will not see them sitting in the front  row at the mayor's last inauguration, for example. A read of the newspapers will find a name mentioned once in a while on the business or real estate pages and almost never on the crime pages as the only one that I can remember was "Crazy Eddie" and many of us know what happened to him.

This is not like the rest of the city and unless a person did extensive research on the community itself, then one can understand how both the MTA and NYCDOT have gotten into this predicament and what will be the final outcome. The information is there but to find it, one has to go back in New York City history to the 1920's and 1930's when the community settled there and thrived there as well. In fact almost all of their fellow co-religionists know little or nothing about the community except that they are members of the same faith.  This is why it is  one of those situations where the usual "one size fits all"will not work and everything that the textbook says gets thrown out the proverbial window.  

So when the B/82 sbs was proposed, the NYCDOT and the MTA heard the usual refrain on do this thing here and that thing there which is commonplace at these meetings on SBS proposals. So they geared up for implementation of something that they were under the false presumption that would have gotten through and the community can live with it. As the date of implementation got closer and the community saw what it would do, they called in their friends to stop it. The call to arms came in all forms from letter writing to all the elected officials in the area and everyone who has benefited from the community's help in the past. As the reports that have come out over the last couple of days in the media indicate, it shows that this community can have something delayed as it have far more power as compared with any other community and that they will use it to change the B/82 sbs so that the impact upon their community will be minimal.

As i have stated in my previous posts here, the B/82 SBS will run on Avenue P from Ocean Avenue to West 6th Street as i have indicated for it does not have the problems of Kings Highway as the Avenue P business district is from McDonald Avenue to Ocean Parkway.  It is three lanes in each direction and this means that the buses have more flexibility on Avenue P. The community does not care about the traffic on Avenue P, vision zero or anything else as it does not impact upon their businesses on Kings Highway. The community has sent a loud and clear message to both the MTA and NYCDOT as well as the rest of the government agencies that want to do something that when you  do anything to our community, you do what we want and not what you want.