The Redesigns Are Back On

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

[Lawrence St]

They say they will resume in the Fall, but will implement the final Bronx plan in the summer. Perhaps they will resume finishing the Queens draft plan?

[checkmatechamp13]

5:20 mark is where he mentions it...Definitely good to see them starting up again.

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

They say they will resume in the Fall, but will implement the final Bronx plan in the summer. Perhaps they will resume finishing the Queens draft plan?

idk about how far they got in the Queens process, but they’re re-doing the community meetings process for the Bronx.

Supposedly there are some more tweaks to the redesign, which implies that the “final” proposal we got before the pandemic isn’t final at this point.

@Via Garibaldi 8keep an eye out on the express buses.

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, paulrivera said:

idk about how far they got in the Queens process, but they’re re-doing the community meetings process for the Bronx.

Supposedly there are some more tweaks to the redesign, which implies that the “final” proposal we got before the pandemic isn’t final at this point.

@Via Garibaldi 8keep an eye out on the express buses.

I noticed that to. They say there are "changes to the 2019 Fall Plan" but links the old original final draft plan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

idk about how far they got in the Queens process, but they’re re-doing the community meetings process for the Bronx.

Supposedly there are some more tweaks to the redesign, which implies that the “final” proposal we got before the pandemic isn’t final at this point.

@Via Garibaldi 8keep an eye out on the express buses.

For now they're only talking about the Bronx Local Bus Redesign, so the plan for the Bronx express buses is not resuming yet to my knowledge. They noted that today.

[P3F]

Wow, I can't wait for Brooklyn to get royally screwed. At least the pandemic delayed the service cuts for a couple of years.

[NBTA]

39 minutes ago, P3F said:

Wow, I can't wait for Brooklyn to get royally screwed. At least the pandemic delayed the service cuts for a couple of years.

I don’t think Brooklyn will get as screwed as Queens was originally gonna be.

[trainfan22]

As for the BK redesign I predict the BMs being rerouted to 6th Ave/Broadway off peak and Sunday service. SI redesign had off peak SIM2 service, bizzare terminal in Manthattan but was easily my favorite off peak SI express to fan, too bad off peak service was short lived, oh well.

 

That's an obvious layup for the MTA to run the BMs via 6th/Broadway, that via FDR routing is outdated and should have been changed years ago. Financial District has weekend service but all the trendy areas of Manhattan are skipped.. 

 

[Lawrence St]

I heard a couple of things:

Some type of northward B68 extension to Red Hook, followed by a terminal change from Mermaid Loop to Brighton Beach.

This one dosent make sense so take it with a grain of salt,

A split of the B35, with the B35 Local being discontinued and replaced by a rerouted B15 to McDonald's Av. The B35 LTD continues to JFK replacing the former B15.

[MysteriousBtrain]

11 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Supposedly there are some more tweaks to the redesign, which implies that the “final” proposal we got before the pandemic isn’t final at this point.

Remember the reason for the sudden change is bc of ridership pattern changes for post pandemic. We were ready to implement it by late 2020 but of course everything had to be postponed for the time being.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

As for the BK redesign I predict the BMs being rerouted to 6th Ave/Broadway off peak and Sunday service. SI redesign had off peak SIM2 service, bizzare terminal in Manthattan but was easily my favorite off peak SI express to fan, too bad off peak service was short lived, oh well.

 

That's an obvious layup for the MTA to run the BMs via 6th/Broadway, that via FDR routing is outdated and should have been changed years ago. Financial District has weekend service but all the trendy areas of Manhattan are skipped.. 

 

It's not outdated. The  runs via Broadway, so the express buses are serving areas AWAY from the subway, thus giving riders direct service to the hospitals by 1st and 23rd and a bunch of other popular stops that the subway does not serve. 

[Future ENY OP]

11 hours ago, P3F said:

Wow, I can't wait for Brooklyn to get royally screwed. At least the pandemic delayed the service cuts for a couple of years.

I could see some parts of Brooklyn getting screwed in this re-design project. However, if we don't apply pressure on the planners to introduce new areas to attract Brooklyn bus service than I see problems ahead for the re-design.

10 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

As for the BK redesign I predict the BMs being rerouted to 6th Ave/Broadway off peak and Sunday service. SI redesign had off peak SIM2 service, bizzare terminal in Manthattan but was easily my favorite off peak SI express to fan, too bad off peak service was short lived, oh well.

 

That's an obvious layup for the MTA to run the BMs via 6th/Broadway, that via FDR routing is outdated and should have been changed years ago. Financial District has weekend service but all the trendy areas of Manhattan are skipped.. 

 

Personally, I cannot see BM's getting diverted into a Downtown segment and going via 6th Ave/Broadway.  You have hospital workers that work at Bellevue, NYU Langoe, Mount Sinai-Beth Israel and DOHMH-OCME. Those workers utilize the BM's that live in transit deserts like Sheepshead Bay, Midwood, Mill Basin and Canarsie.

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I heard a couple of things:

Some type of northward B68 extension to Red Hook, followed by a terminal change from Mermaid Loop to Brighton Beach.

This one dosent make sense so take it with a grain of salt,

A split of the B35, with the B35 Local being discontinued and replaced by a rerouted B15 to McDonald's Av. The B35 LTD continues to JFK replacing the former B15.

I'm not 100% solid on this. There's no way the will get rid of the B35 local variant to implement a B15 variant which has nothing to do with East Flatbush at all. If that were to happen than the B15 becomes Gleason and not East New York.

Also, with the B68, I cannot see this going to Red Hook. That route would have to follow the current B61 via 9th Street. Red Hook to Coney Island sounds too far of a reach. If anything I could possibly see a B75 being reinstated to address the Red Hook issue.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Some type of northward B68 extension to Red Hook

 

That would work only if B61 is cut back to Red Hook. How likely is that?

[Q43LTD]

Isn't the Q8 being rerouted from Spring Creek to Brookdale Hospital in redesign? The B15 is getting royally screwed here 

[jaf0519]

I feel that a lot of you are cling to the fact that they will be tweaking routes like the Bronx redesign. I have no reason to assume any route would be he same, and that the Brooklyn redesign will be more similar to the Queens one, especially due to the fact that the Next Steps section of the redesign page has this sentence “The new draft bus network will be a ‘blank slate’ reimagining of the bus network, drawn from scratch.” To me, that sentence screams anything and everything is on the table for changing.

[FLX9304]

I’m going for broke here. There are areas in the Bronx that need transit badly. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, jaf0519 said:

I feel that a lot of you are cling to the fact that they will be tweaking routes like the Bronx redesign. I have no reason to assume any route would be he same, and that the Brooklyn redesign will be more similar to the Queens one, especially due to the fact that the Next Steps section of the redesign page has this sentence “The new draft bus network will be a ‘blank slate’ reimagining of the bus network, drawn from scratch.” To me, that sentence screams anything and everything is on the table for changing.

The Bronx redesign (at least the original one) was a tweak. The planner that drafted it noted that 70% of the routes would stay the same, and 30% of the routes would change.  They focused mainly on stop consolidation to speed up service. Queens is not the same at all, but it was done terribly.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Bronx redesign (at least the original one) was a tweak. The planner that drafted it noted that 70% of the routes would stay the same, and 30% of the routes would change.  They focused mainly on stop consolidation to speed up service. Queens is not the same at all, but it was done terribly.

I'm hoping we get another draft plan for queens in early 2022. There's no reason the revamped queens system should be looking like that.

The ideas presented are good in theory (nonstop/LTD routes from Jamaica and Flushing and Routes 1-9 being high priority LTD corridors) but there are a handful of routes that were fine without any route changes like the Q12 and Q53. That's not even including the express routes because that's already a mess in it's own shadows.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm hoping we get another draft plan for queens in early 2022. There's no reason the revamped queens system should be looking like that.

The ideas presented are good in theory (nonstop/LTD routes from Jamaica and Flushing and Routes 1-9 being high priority LTD corridors) but there are a handful of routes that were fine without any route changes like the Q12 and Q53. That's not even including the express routes because that's already a mess in it's own shadows.

With the amount of negative feedback they received for the Bronx express buses, they will either take longer to release a revamp, or not release one at all. I spoke with the  via conference call and in a meeting about the Bronx express bus redesign. They were forewarned that people would be pissed, but they didn't believe me until they came to the Town Hall Meeting in Riverdale. LOL They looked like they wanted to crawl under the table. LOL Between that and all of the comments they received, in addition to a BxM4 petition and complaints from elected officials, what they originally proposed will not fly, and the Queens Express Bus Redesign won't either. People are not happy about the local or express proposals for Queens.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

I feel that a lot of you are cling to the fact that they will be tweaking routes like the Bronx redesign. I have no reason to assume any route would be he same, and that the Brooklyn redesign will be more similar to the Queens one, especially due to the fact that the Next Steps section of the redesign page has this sentence “The new draft bus network will be a ‘blank slate’ reimagining of the bus network, drawn from scratch.” To me, that sentence screams anything and everything is on the table for changing.

That whole reimagining the bus network bit was one of, if not the major talking point for the redesigns in general...

As far as the rest of what you said here, you're preaching to the choir AFAIC... Bettering the bus network from the vantage point of the MTA & bettering the bus network from the vantage point of the riding public would simply yield two noticeably different results.... Even though they may have whatever stats at their arsenal, the MTA has still has little to no knowledge of its own riderbase... At the end of the day, it's about saving a buck to them.

3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm hoping we get another draft plan for queens in early 2022. There's no reason the revamped queens system should be looking like that.

The ideas presented are good in theory (nonstop/LTD routes from Jamaica and Flushing and Routes 1-9 being high priority LTD corridors) but there are a handful of routes that were fine without any route changes like the Q12 and Q53. That's not even including the express routes because that's already a mess in it's own shadows.

The basis for their ideas are good in theory... Most of the actual route/routing ideas in the Queens redesign are for the birds - and that's putting it reaaalllly nicely....

[Lawrence St]

19 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm hoping we get another draft plan for queens in early 2022. There's no reason the revamped queens system should be looking like that.

The ideas presented are good in theory (nonstop/LTD routes from Jamaica and Flushing and Routes 1-9 being high priority LTD corridors) but there are a handful of routes that were fine without any route changes like the Q12 and Q53. That's not even including the express routes because that's already a mess in it's own shadows.

The only reason why they messed with the Q53 is because of the high fare beating that goes on in that route. 

IIRC, the passenger counters weren't installed on the Q53 until sometime in the middle of 2020, so they couldn't have known that the Q53 is the highest ridership route other then the Q52.

[Cait Sith]

31 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The only reason why they messed with the Q53 is because of the high fare beating that goes on in that route. 

IIRC, the passenger counters weren't installed on the Q53 until sometime in the middle of 2020, so they couldn't have known that the Q53 is the highest ridership route other then the Q52.

No it's not. With that logic, every SBS route would be gone because of farebeating.

Their excuse is the fact that the Q53 screws itself over in the Jackson Heights/Woodside area because of all of the congestion. While it's true that Q53 ops do lose time between Queens Blvd & Jackson Heights and on-time performance drops because of traffic and other means, I'm not sure if it's as significant as they say it is.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Cait Sith

[Via Garibaldi 8]

52 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The only reason why they messed with the Q53 is because of the high fare beating that goes on in that route. 

IIRC, the passenger counters weren't installed on the Q53 until sometime in the middle of 2020, so they couldn't have known that the Q53 is the highest ridership route other then the Q52.

Prior to the passenger counters (sensors by the doors) on the buses, they used Metrocard data and counters to gauge ridership numbers. While the Metrocard data isn't readily available to riders, the  uses it. Riders technically can request that information on their Metrocard trips if they want to, just like you can track your trips on OMNY now, as long as you link the cards you tap with to your OMNY account.

That said, farebeating is worse on some SBS lines than others, and can obviously skew the numbers, but that's a separate matter entirely.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

47 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

No it's not. With that logic, every SBS route would be gone because of farebeating.

Their excuse is the fact that the Q53 screws itself over in the Jackson Heights/Woodside area because of all of the congestion. While it's true that Q53 ops do lose time between Queens Blvd & Jackson Heights and on-time performance drops because of traffic and other means, I'm not sure if it's as significant as they say it is.

Thats what I was told. I asked at one of the public meetings why the Q53 was getting eliminated and they simply stated the Q52 has more ridership based on the "data" tbey have.

If the issue was really congestion, they would have kept the Rockaways portion of the Q53.